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#1 Doro

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:55

There was a thread on the official forums about Star-lit Crystals that was deleted without any comment. There was no real reason to delete it but, of course, Turbine are in damage control mode after their terrible update.

Now, when using a full 3 crystals, the increase on Second Age Legendary Items (SA) is greater than the increase on First Age Legendary Items (FA). This has resulted in SAs with 3 crystals growing close to a FA without any.

Some are annoyed by this. They're saying that this has made all their work pointless and given no reason for them to run T2 Orth any more.

I argue differently. I think this is a brilliant addition (in fact, it was a suggestion I made on the official forums not too long ago). This has now allowed those who can't get FAs to be able to make their SAs close to an FA, while FAs can also be increased, though by a smaller amount.

What I can't understand is why people think this is a negative thing. Before, people ran Orth T2s for FAs and, supposedly, the challenge of it. Now, they run it for the same reasons and they can also improve their reward. Yet some people are saying that these improved FAs are not a reason to run Orth T2 anymore, despite them having been a good enough reason to run them previously, when they were worse.

The only reason I can see now is that certain types of people are annoyed that there is an easier way to get close to the rewards of T2 Orth, without the challenge (the same challenge that some say is the supposed reason they run it). Improved SAs do not stop people running T2 Orth like they did before, especially since the loot can be improved even more now.
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#2 Laurinaohtar

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:38

The only negative I see from them is there avaliability in the store (also expect to see star-lit crystal removal scrolls at some point), I actually think the idea behind them is a good one.
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#3 Doro

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:46

The only negative I see from them is there avaliability in the store (also expect to see star-lit crystal removal scrolls at some point), I actually think the idea behind them is a good one.


That was the only thing I didn't like about them, too. I despise Turbine's constant need to push their Store. I despise them so much now that I can't even bring myself to spend 'free' VIP allowance either.
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#4 Dalthalion

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:59

I despise them so much now that I can't even bring myself to spend 'free' VIP allowance either.


That's a very deep level of disgust. Not many games spark that in people.
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#5 Jedy2

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 22:30

That was the only thing I didn't like about them, too. I despise Turbine's constant need to push their Store. I despise them so much now that I can't even bring myself to spend 'free' VIP allowance either.



Overkill IMO.

Store-crystals.... Laughable and oh-so-predictable.
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#6 Stavro Mueller

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 22:34

My main issue with the crystals is the uneven value depending on the age of the target LI.

Legacies, relics, and scrolls all give identical bonuses, regardless of the age or level of the LI. But these crystals, at $15 per set, only give a quarter of the bonus to a FA that they give to a SA or TA.

When people finally get a set of crystals for their FAs, I can't imagine they're going to be too happy that they spent all that TP/gold/time for something that gives a bonus so small it's almost an insult. At this point, I'd almost be happier if they just removed the slots from FAs entirely, while leaving TAs and SAs unchanged. I'm sure a few min-maxers would be angry, but that anger would be nowhere near the level of backlash they would get from people who figure out that they just spent $5 for less than one DPS.
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#7 Doro

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 22:49

My main issue with the crystals is the uneven value depending on the age of the target LI.


I like that it's uneven. If it was the same on all LIs, it would be redundant as the differences would still be the same, only shifted up the scale. Plus, I like the idea that I can improve my weapon to something near an FA, since I know I will probably never encounter a FA as the game currently is.
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#8 Ingaras

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 00:00

What I can't understand is why people think this is a negative thing. Before, people ran Orth T2s for FAs and, supposedly, the challenge of it. Now, they run it for the same reasons and they can also improve their reward. Yet some people are saying that these improved FAs are not a reason to run Orth T2 anymore, despite them having been a good enough reason to run them previously, when they were worse.


While I don't mind them too much, the Crystals can be viewed negatively for a number of reasons:
- It adds further complication and 'grind' to the already complicated LI system... how many Relics and Titles and Crystals and Legacies and Devices until it's too much? All from different sources, different bonuses...

- Obviously it's a bit of a money grab and additional hamster wheel now a large amount of people finally think they have a decent LI (just like the new Relic tier last update)

- Orthanc T2 atm gives little reason to run it. Just about the only half-decent rewards are the First Age symbols and the Cloak clasps, which are farmed in T1. These Crystals lower the gap between 2nd and 1st age quite a bit, meaning there's even less reason to spend time and effort on ToO T2. Previously getting a FA meant a significant upgrade that even could mean the difference between getting the next wing down or not, now that's just as easily solved with Crystals, which are supposedly a lot easier to get. I agree that's in itself not a bad thing, but it means there's no real reward for T2 left, except the deed.
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#9 Iorionael

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 00:12

I'm guessing the crystal drops are going to be on par with the stat tome drops. I spent some stipend tp on stat tomes for my main and will probably do the same for crystals. Alts can go hang where things like that are concerned.

When I think about it, I may not spend tp on them until RoR hits (and level 85 2nd agers are available) so I can see how many tp i'll have spare from purchasing RoR in the store and getting the 6th bag. I didn't preorder RoI (and my decision was fully justified imho) and I certainly won't be preordering RoR. Anyone that is considering purchasing RoR with cold hard cash must have a screw loose.

You purchased RoI? Are you happy to see your cash spent on developing updates that are bugged to hell and back?

*big arsed female hobbit signing out*
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#10 Melmadoc

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:45

15x Fornost HMs, 6 People solo skrimishing (Rift - maximum Lieutnands) over 2 hours => 0 Crystals

I think it will be the exactly same thing as stat-tomes...

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#11 Raedwulf

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:07

I'm guessing the crystal drops are going to be on par with the stat tome drops.


Ran T1 ToO last night, first 4 bosses (The Old Codger tonight) - one dropped (from the Pit, IIRC). Let you know if we get any out of TOC tonight... Haven't tried any skirms yet, let alone raid skirms.
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#12 Thorgrum

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 15:14

Classic Turbine put in an item to keep the level cap grind and sell it in the store under the banner of “convenience” and wallow in the gray area. Yes its convienent to not have to grind for an item that isn’t needed but does provide advantage. They have the model down pretty well and it won’t stop any time soon. The store is likely a necessary evil for them, revenue is revenue and I’m not sold completely on the notion they make plenty from subs.

That said it doesn’t bother me too much, at this stage of the game I know what to expect from them. Buggy release, minimal impact on game play, more grind, more pay options, rinse repeat see you in 7.1. The lag is still there and that’s a problem, this is what update 7 should have addressed, I used to run the game at very high graphics it was beautiful now I am at very low to avoid the screen shaking and massive lag spikes (still get them though in raids).

The LI is a money sink, and guess what? Level 85 is coming soon so you’ll be deconstructing all those level 75 LI’s, want to bet there is a special deconstruct scroll for sale in the store for the crystals?
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#13 Jedy2

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 15:35

The LI is a money sink, and guess what? Level 85 is coming soon so you’ll be deconstructing all those level 75 LI’s, want to bet there is a special deconstruct scroll for sale in the store for the crystals?


Well, this is a forum for sapiens so not going to spill a lot of beans here.
There are obvious counter-measures to brainless grinds or Pay to Win – waiting for level 85 items is one of them. Personally I tend to skip certain stages in LI – as tank or minstrel I have more leeway. (Though I remember a lot of fun poked at my Tank’s level 60 First Age, when all had level 65 second agers. I simply equipped random level 75 third age a week after RoI – then killed some Dragons - problem solved. )

As someone here wrote – enjoy your FtP game.
Why should I worry that someone is going to spend gazillions of TP to have super weapons? He’s not likely to take my place in my guild runs, and when I decide to raid with friends from other guilds – I still hold my own and do my job.

Admittedly, I sometimes have this sudden urge to buy store-potions…
I resist it successfully.
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#14 fralen

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 01:02

This is weird, because for my kin they've been dropping like candy in everything from Turtle to Foundry. Four of us got them on Monday, and another half dozen people have got them since.

Of course, Turbine may 'fix' the drop rate. It's also level-dependant - the ones you get in the Moria instances can only be used on items up to level 65.

I've never seen a stat tome drop. I saw nine crystals drop and won two of them in one day of gameplay after they were introduced, and I'm not a hard-core raider.
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#15 minimorgoth

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:39

So they added another 0,00001% drop chance item, but it's still not pay2win because it can drop ingame?
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#16 Thorgrum

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:38

This is weird, because for my kin they've been dropping like candy in everything from Turtle to Foundry. Four of us got them on Monday, and another half dozen people have got them since.

Of course, Turbine may 'fix' the drop rate. It's also level-dependant - the ones you get in the Moria instances can only be used on items up to level 65.

I've never seen a stat tome drop. I saw nine crystals drop and won two of them in one day of gameplay after they were introduced, and I'm not a hard-core raider.


Interesting. Guess we will have to see if history repeats itself. Im betting that when the new level cap hits you'll need a removal scroll for the crystals when you upgrade your LI. Im also betting that the scroll will not drop as frequently (if at all) as the crystals. LI's are a good driver of the store I dont see them getting away from that even though LI's were supposed to grow with you (another turbine lie)
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#17 Raedwulf

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 19:29

No drops from Saruman last night. Despite an epic 48 minute fight, cos 3 of the dpsers managed to get their silly selves punted off the tower...
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Good players adapt, bad players whinge; which are you?

I find that, where Turbine is concerned, optimism is a mayfly that lasts two seconds in the face of the blowtorch of experience.

#18 Spidey

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 16:16

I know no one here gives a rats ass, but Freeps having 2nd ages with more DPS than a 1st age is a Creeps nightmare, where's my increased DPS or survivability? I'm getting sick and tired of having to run from minis that I would crush before they became god-mode, and I'm not talking about crushing them because I can dominate minstrels, but because they're shit players in shit gear. A decently played mini was a hell of a good time 1v1ing, thank you turbine for fucking this game up so bad and making GW2 so disirable to play.
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#19 Doro

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 16:49

I know no one here gives a rats ass, but Freeps having 2nd ages with more DPS than a 1st age is a Creeps nightmare, where's my increased DPS or survivability? I'm getting sick and tired of having to run from minis that I would crush before they became god-mode, and I'm not talking about crushing them because I can dominate minstrels, but because they're shit players in shit gear. A decently played mini was a hell of a good time 1v1ing, thank you turbine for fucking this game up so bad and making GW2 so disirable to play.


I don't think that maxing on crystals can make a SA better than an FA without any. I might be wrong, though.
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Banned for calling out a mod abusing their powers... the irony of it all.

#20 Raedwulf

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 17:24

I think that's correct, Doro. One of my raid leaders said that the difference between FA & SA is about 8.5%, between flat FA & 3 crystal SA, it's about 2%. Plus the crystals do not have as much effect on a FA, so a 3* FA will not again be 8.5% better than a 3* SA. The problem for the Creeps is that every Freep will have a SA, though, and increasingly many of them will have a fully tooled up SA or FA. No such advantage for the Creeps, and RoI has already tipped the balance away from them, I believe...
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Good players adapt, bad players whinge; which are you?

I find that, where Turbine is concerned, optimism is a mayfly that lasts two seconds in the face of the blowtorch of experience.




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