537 replies to this topic

[The MMO Troll]

Funny thing is, I wrote up a Troll article about RoR's prices earlier this evening, before I knew of the general hue and cry about it. Now my Troll, which was meant to upset the Fanboys, just seems like one of the many rants about this issue.

[Thrabath]

Doro, on 05 June 2012 - 11:27, said:

http://forums.lotro....idiculous-Costs

Few people jumping out with the usual, flawed arguments of 'you don't NEED it'. Most people seem to dislike the costs too.

Considering the Heroic and Legendary edition, that is true, although people should rage about it.

The 40 dollar offer for the basic edition is high, esp. because we don't know much about it.

[Wayshuba]

Just an FYI for clarification.

This is NOT a Pre-Order, they actually have the gaul to do it as a Pre-Purchase....

Boy, does this smell like someone trying to make Q2 end numbers.

Thrabath, on 05 June 2012 - 09:28, said:

The biggest problem is, the information they give is not much (or better said, almost nothing)

I'll give you another one for coal on the fire. Since they are selling it pre-purchase (rather than a deposit only pre-order) they just opened themselves up in a major way legally to being sued in a class action (remember, this is owned by WB now, so lawyers can smell the money). When collecting full amount for a product, you must (by federal law) specify EXACTLY what the customer is getting for their funds in exchange for the full amount. If a company can't do that, or isn't willing to, then you go with pre-order.

This pre-purchase thing is a dangerous new precedent that, I guaranteee, will lead to lawsuits eventually. Lawyers can always smell blood a mile away and changing from pre-order to pre-purchase obiligates a company under a whole host of laws that pre-order does not and is very easy to slip up on.

[Doro]

Thrabath, on 05 June 2012 - 12:06, said:

Considering the Heroic and Legendary edition, that is true, although people should rage about it.

The 40 dollar offer for the basic edition is high, esp. because we don't know much about it.

Considering all of it, it's true. We don't need anything from the game, we don't even need to play it. The point is we do play it and we pay to play, so having people tell me I don't need full access when I put money into it is just enraging.

[The MMO Troll]

Wayshuba, on 05 June 2012 - 12:13, said:

Just an FYI for clarification.

This is NOT a Pre-Order, they actually have the gaul to do it as a Pre-Purchase....

Boy, does this smell like someone trying to make Q2 end numbers.



I'll give you another one for coal on the fire. Since they are selling it pre-purchase (rather than a deposit only pre-order) they just opened themselves up in a major way legally to being sued in a class action (remember, this is owned by WB now, so lawyers can smell the money). When collecting full amount for a product, you must (by federal law) specify EXACTLY what the customer is getting for their funds in exchange for the full amount. If a company can't do that, or isn't willing to, then you go with pre-order.

This pre-purchase thing is a dangerous new precedent that, I guaranteee, will lead to lawsuits eventually. Lawyers can always smell blood a mile away and changing from pre-order to pre-purchase obiligates a company under a whole host of laws that pre-order does not and is very easy to slip up on.

True. This is just a big push to make some quarterly target.

Maybe Turbine should just accept that F2P for LOTRO doesn't work, or at the very least that they aren't doing enough to justify people paying extra to keep the game solvent? Selling annual expansions for more than many new games cost just isn't going to fly, especially when the economy is far from rosy right now.

[Altreg01]

The MMO Troll, on 05 June 2012 - 12:17, said:

True. This is just a big push to make some quarterly target.

Maybe Turbine should just accept that F2P for LOTRO doesn't work, or at the very least that they aren't doing enough to justify people paying extra to keep the game solvent? Selling annual expansions for more than many new games cost just isn't going to fly, especially when the economy is far from rosy right now.

I think too many are really using the Free part of f2p and of course are shouldering the cost of the game on the remaining players. What good is 1,000,000 players if less than 10% actually pay?  

I really miss when Turbine was a private company and F2P was just an itch in WBs pants.

[Doro]

Let's see what happens!

Quote

Be happy if you live in the EU. You can buy the largest bundle and then get your money back for Turbine selling you an expansion that isn't fully detailed with what it contains. Since the code is already applied to your account, Turbine can only give you your money back and not remove the expansion.

So, in short, if you live in the EU, you can buy this expansion for free. You can thank Turbine for that.

http://forums.lotro....078#post6210078

[The MMO Troll]

Doro, on 05 June 2012 - 12:55, said:

Let's see what happens!



http://forums.lotro....078#post6210078

Oh, Doro, I think you're going to get a vacation for that. You know Rick won't respond well when he sees all this discontent, so I suspect he'll take it out on you and others.

[cossieuk]

Doro, on 05 June 2012 - 12:55, said:

Let's see what happens!



http://forums.lotro....078#post6210078

[The MMO Troll]

Altreg01, on 05 June 2012 - 12:38, said:

I think too many are really using the Free part of f2p and of course are shouldering the cost of the game on the remaining players. What good is 1,000,000 players if less than 10% actually pay?  

I really miss when Turbine was a private company and F2P was just an itch in WBs pants.

Yep. Things were a lot better before Turbine and WB took the game F2P. I still look back on the times before Mirkwood and think "I really liked playing LOTRO then, and was proud to be a supporter of Turbine".

Now? Not so much.

[Talisman]

Raedwulf, on 05 June 2012 - 09:54, said:

No TP price? They can bugger off as far as I'm concerned; my money is staying in my pocket. When I can buy it with TP, I'll buy it with TP. It's not like I'll be missing anything - no instances, another grind to the new level cap, replace my LIs yet again, hang around waiting for end-game content; all for the sake of mounted combat that will probably turn out to be crap / buggy. I'll wait; by the time I get it, I expect the usual scrum round new content, queueing up for mobs, etc, will have died down.

Not at present. Apparantly, as someone mentioned in a similar question on the forums, they can only put things in the store that are in the game. The RoI expansion, for example, couldn't go in the store until all the instances were released (and that wasn't until December with Update 5). It seems an odd design choice.

[Darmokk]

When I was excited about the 6th bag I didn't think they would charge me $30 for it. (the other stuff in that edition is useless to me)

That's gonna be expensive for multiple accounts. And I am paying twice for those stupid quest packs. A usual.

And the TP packages with no bonus points? Come on. Talk about bring about the wrath of the players for no reason. Somebody there has really bad judgement.

[Talisman]

Wayshuba, on 05 June 2012 - 09:09, said:

So, if this isn't due until Fall, Turbine is now selling pre-orders three-four months in advance. Funny timing considering it is the last month of Q2.

Not to mention $40 to $70 for an expansion - really? This has got to be the biggest joke ever. They are getting to the point where they are selling expansions, with minimal new content, for the price of an entire game.

To be fair, this is the week of E3, and they have repeatedly stated in the forums (as well as on Twitter) that they would have major announcements during the expo. I really don't think it's unreasonable to start pre-orders 3 months early. All I ask is that they don't release a bug-riddled repeat of RoI.

[LordVorontur]

Well, it certainly looks like I'll be using TP for it. Can't really afford this atm anyway, what with pennies going on a certain festival that starts friday(altho we are camping in the crap weather for 5 days).

But then there's Rocksmith coming out in the UK in october. Not sure I'll be able to afford that and an expansion for each lifetime VIP account.

[The MMO Troll]

LordVorontur, on 05 June 2012 - 13:28, said:

Well, it certainly looks like I'll be using TP for it. Can't really afford this atm anyway, what with pennies going on a certain festival that starts friday(altho we are camping in the crap weather for 5 days).

But then there's Rocksmith coming out in the UK in october. Not sure I'll be able to afford that and an expansion for each lifetime VIP account.

Indeed! I would rather put this money towards one of the several Renaissance Faires I attend each summer, than put it into Turbine's pocket. While I may get more playtime with LOTRO, I'll have a lot more fun and great memories from the Ren Faire. Plus, Jousting and Ale > LOTRO, even with Mounted Combat.

[Wayshuba]

Talisman, on 05 June 2012 - 13:28, said:

To be fair, this is the week of E3, and they have repeatedly stated in the forums (as well as on Twitter) that they would have major announcements during the expo. I really don't think it's unreasonable to start pre-orders 3 months early. All I ask is that they don't release a bug-riddled repeat of RoI.

Except, this is very important, THEY ARE NOT DOING PRE-ORDERS (caps for emphasis). They are doing a PRE-PURCHASE which is an entirely differnet animal under US law. I am well versed on this since my company is currently doing pre-purchase on some business software we are releasing in July and my attornies clearly spelled out what the requirements were in the US (and the UK and EU for that matter) in regard to this.

From a marketing standpoint, it seems easy to move from pre-order (which is a small deposit only not billed until product availability) to a pre-purchase (which is paying for the full price of the product before it is ready), but from a legal standpoint there is a tremendous difference in legal requirements.

[Hajile]

Doro, on 05 June 2012 - 12:55, said:

Let's see what happens!
http://forums.lotro....078#post6210078

The MMO Troll, on 05 June 2012 - 13:01, said:

Oh, Doro, I think you're going to get a vacation for that. You know Rick won't respond well when he sees all this discontent, so I suspect he'll take it out on you and others.

If you will recall, I exposed that very same legal snafu of both Turbine and Digital River back when RoI was available for pre-purchase. I made public the precise legal precedent to quote in order for players to obtain their refund without losing their access, and the law has not changed since then. I guarantee you that you will be able to do the exact same thing with RoR. I also got myself made invisible on their forums for masking that information known to their customers, because Turbine do not want their customers to be aware of their rights.

Remember this? Perhaps it would be an idea that anyone posting along these lines on the official forums starts screen grabbing again, in case Sapience starts doing this again. Check out those threads - they should give you all the ammunition you need to get your money back.

So yes, you can buy the pre-purchase, activate the code and then obtain your legally entitled refund, thus enabling you to get Rohan and all its goodies for free. There is no way for Turbine to deny you without being in violation of UK and EU law.

Coincidentally, a couple of weeks ago Turbine severed their partnership with Digital River and created their own webstore. Could that have anything to do with the fact that last time they offered a pre-purchase Digital River were, after some struggle, readily handing out the refunds their customers were legally entitled to? Refunds that Turbine wanted to avoid having to give?

I would expect that the number of hoops you will have to jump through to obtain your refunds will be much higher now Turbine have assumed control. Just always remember your rights and what they are legally obligated to give you. Their insistence that "all sales are final" has no basis in law and you can bitchslap them royally if they try to deny your rights.

[Brrokk]

Sss, we musst have it, precious! And extra bagses, somehow we musst gets it, gollum!

I'm not preordering so far in advance though, I don't see any point forking out until I can install it.

[Byron]

Well....
I won't pre-order either.
After 5+ years this will be the first content I won't get.
Maybe later with TP if available...

[Darmokk]

I'm considering waiting for the bag to show up as a TP purchase.

I still haven't caught up with the level limit now and given how things go it is questionable whether I ever will.

Plus as I said for multiple accounts this gets out of control. The one feature I want hidden behind a $70 price tag? That's like Mercedes having a $12000 extras package on a $8000 car, but the extras include the windshield. What do you want? Get some WW1 pilot glasses. You don't have to buy the windshield.