257 replies to this topic

[Hawkmoon]

PJ., on 08 July 2012 - 14:19, said:

I can just see Turbine's point of view, why advertise the competition?

PJ

Why worry about the competition?  unless you are worried about them taking your players away from you.  If your game is good, you should not have to worry about competition.  Now if you don't think your game is that good or you know you are making a mess of things, then you need to worry about the competition.

[The MMO Troll]

Hawkmoon, on 09 July 2012 - 03:43, said:

Why worry about the competition?  unless you are worried about them taking your players away from you.  If your game is good, you should not have to worry about competition.  Now if you don't think your game is that good or you know you are making a mess of things, then you need to worry about the competition.

I take the middle ground on this issue, really. You are correct that a company shouldn't worry about posts regarding their competition on their Off-Topic forum, unless the company in question is worried about said competition. But at the same time, often discussions regarding competing games turn into threads bashing the primary product, and just serve to tear down the game and the community. It isn't productive to allow that on your game's forum.

That all said, I think Turbine has probably been a bit heavy-handed regarding posts in Off-topic regarding their competition, but I also think they have good reason to worry. GW2 will smack them pretty hard, as it will draw a lot of PvP-focused players from pretty much every fantasy MMO on the market, plus some other games (like SWTOR). The game I see turbine really having to worry about is "The Secret World", to be honest, as it's deep storyline is easily a match for LOTRO's epic questline and then some. Turbine's big calling cards for LOTRO has always been that it allows us to play in Middle Earth, and the epic storyline. Any game that can come out with a better storyline than LOTRO (like TSW does), is going to put pressure on Turbine to step things up.

[Raedwulf]

The MMO Troll, on 09 July 2012 - 09:40, said:

the epic storyline. Any game that can come out with a better storyline than LOTRO

Any & every game ought to be able to come up with a better storyline than LotRO. I know that there are people who do enjoy the epic quests, but I cannot believe that anyone thinks the epic storyline is a serious draw for the game. It is clumsy at best, badly written at best, riddled with deus ex machina and, quite frankly, rubbish. I have to grit my teeth to get through it every time there's a new release. It wasn't too bad on original release, but every book that's been created since just gets worse & worse!

[Maelendil]

The reforging of Narsil is still the best quest line in lotro. And it's not even part of the epic quests!

For the rest, I am always disappointed to see that rangers are such loosers, always stunned, charmed or simply dead. Tolkien managed to keep everyone in the fellowship alive (with the exception of Borromir, who was on the brink of evil), while Turbine is littering our path with bodies.

[Tanith]

Raedwulf, on 09 July 2012 - 11:14, said:

Any & every game ought to be able to come up with a better storyline than LotRO. I know that there are people who do enjoy the epic quests, but I cannot believe that anyone thinks the epic storyline is a serious draw for the game. It is clumsy at best, badly written at best, riddled with deus ex machina and, quite frankly, rubbish. I have to grit my teeth to get through it every time there's a new release. It wasn't too bad on original release, but every book that's been created since just gets worse & worse!

The SoA storyline was okay...not stunning, but acceptable.  What they're doing to the overall character of the Dúnedain (and now the Rohirrim, apparently) is a travesty.  And don't get me started on Elrond's son Leeroy.

[Hawkmoon]

The MMO Troll, on 09 July 2012 - 09:40, said:

I take the middle ground on this issue, really. You are correct that a company shouldn't worry about posts regarding their competition on their Off-Topic forum, unless the company in question is worried about said competition. But at the same time, often discussions regarding competing games turn into threads bashing the primary product, and just serve to tear down the game and the community. It isn't productive to allow that on your game's forum.

I agree that these threads sometimes fall into the game bashing that you speak of.  But I am not sure how much of this is read by the normal forum community.  Nor how much of an effect it has on them.  If it worries them that much, why not just let the posters know that they are very close to crossing the line and temp forum bans may be handed out.  Don't threaten to close the thread or just close it.  That always leads to posters both pro and anti Turbine) trying to get it closed.

[Spidey]

The MMO Troll, on 09 July 2012 - 09:40, said:

Turbine's big calling cards for LOTRO has always been that it allows us to play in Middle Earth, and the epic storyline. Any game that can come out with a better storyline than LOTRO (like TSW does), is going to put pressure on Turbine to step things up.

Some of ToR's storylines are far better than what LOTRO has been doing lately and told in a unique manner. I have been catching up on some of the epics I've already done on other toons in LOTRO lately and wishing there was a space bar as in ToR to skip the dialog. ToR has 8 storylines, LOTRO has one once you leave the starter areas, does TSW have 1 or 3? I didn't notice much difference between factions once you left the starter area, quests are exactly the same, hell you quest right along with opposing factions, unless that changed on live.

ToR didn't hurt LOTRO all that much and I doubt TSW will either.

[LordVorontur]

I'm personally staying as far away from Funcom games as I can. I've not logged into AoC since a few weeks after they went F2P. I don't intend to log back in.

[Artamir92]

Well, Turbine have deleted the latest GW2 thread. I wonder what exscuse they'll give for that? They are making it so obvious that they are worried about the game.

[The MMO Troll]

Artamir92, on 21 July 2012 - 15:40, said:

Well, Turbine have deleted the latest GW2 thread. I wonder what exscuse they'll give for that? They are making it so obvious that they are worried about the game.

They should be. GW2 won't kill LOTRO (Turbine is doing a great job of that on their own), but it is competition, especially on the PvP front. GW2 basically gives you a Lifetime subscription for just the cost of the game itself, and while they have an in-game Store, it doesn't bleed you dry like the LOTRO Store seems designed to do. Everyone I personally know that still plays MMOs is buying GW2 (except for my wife, who is happy with Rift alone), and not one of them aside from me will play LOTRO. Not one. While that is still a small sample group, I believe it is indicative of the sort of problems Turbine faces in the coming months.

[Silverangel]

The MMO Troll, on 22 July 2012 - 03:15, said:

Not one. While that is still a small sample group, I believe it is indicative of the sort of problems Turbine faces in the coming months.

Normally I don't buy the doom and gloom, but this time I have a feeling that it's on target.  No matter how good Rohan is, it isn't going to appeal to everyone, and there is a lot of quality competition.  Turbine's yet-unnamed MMO also must be struggling.  They've been working on it for over four years now.  Maybe they plan to announce it after they'd sold as many copies of Rohan as they think they can.  That would be a surprise.

[Tanith]

Just out of curiosity, I asked on the official GW2 forum last night whether discussions on other games will be permitted.  Regina Buenaobra came right back and politely but firmly stated such discussions will not be permitted.  So there we have Anet's stance on the subject, cut and dried.  I wanted to link it for you guys, but they've shut their forum down again as they do after every beta.  It'll be open for good soon.

[The MMO Troll]

Tanith, on 24 July 2012 - 10:30, said:

Just out of curiosity, I asked on the official GW2 forum last night whether discussions on other games will be permitted.  Regina Buenaobra came right back and politely but firmly stated such discussions will not be permitted.  So there we have Anet's stance on the subject, cut and dried.  I wanted to link it for you guys, but they've shut their forum down again as they do after every beta.  It'll be open for good soon.

That solves the problem, and I'm glad they answered the question so succinctly.

[Jedy2]

Tanith, on 24 July 2012 - 10:30, said:

Just out of curiosity, I asked on the official GW2 forum last night whether discussions on other games will be permitted.  Regina Buenaobra came right back and politely but firmly stated such discussions will not be permitted.

Regina Goodwork? How cute.
Seriously though – you all expect too much from company run sites – they are but marketing ploys. Corporations are demented fucks by nature (all nice people working for them notwithstanding), and therefore sites like this one are the future of debate.

I have some modicum of understanding for their corporate-fascist-policies. It’s a bit like jealousy in relationships. It’s all fine and dandy to say we trust our beloved (game or man), but a woman letting new chicks storm their bedroom every night, would be strangely naive.
Deleting all forum threads about chicks, checking the husband’s pockets and e-mail stuff is an even more counter-productive, brain-fart quality policy though.  

If I want to discuss the importance of Frogs in Space to LOTRO, or the newest chicks in town – I will find a forum or bar for it.

[Thorgrum]

Silverangel, on 22 July 2012 - 03:47, said:

Normally I don't buy the doom and gloom, but this time I have a feeling that it's on target.  No matter how good Rohan is, it isn't going to appeal to everyone, and there is a lot of quality competition.  Turbine's yet-unnamed MMO also must be struggling.  They've been working on it for over four years now.  Maybe they plan to announce it after they'd sold as many copies of Rohan as they think they can.  That would be a surprise.

Turbine is trapped. The problem is the perception (rightfully gained IMHO) is they are sell outs. WB, the store and the shady and shitty pre order tactics for their last few releases has created a small to medium sized camp of players who hate the company but love the tolkien lore. Any new product they produce outside of LOTRO is handicapped, day 1 I imagine someone will be on the new forums with a comment like "so when does the pay to win store open".

They cant escape, they have a decent catalog of games now but their reputation is not good and they cashed it in on the LOTRO title. They will have other games, LOTRO will not be their last title. Cavaet emptor. In terms of deleteing content, it is their site after all and while Im not a big fan of censorship I certainly understand it from a business point of view. MMO troll is right, Gw2 is going to be a top notch PvP title, a major weakness for LOTRO and unfortunately for them a lot of their VIP money is tied into the moors.

Hence the major rework, it looks a lot like gw2. holding keeps for bonus's.... To little to late for turbine, known liars who blatantly decieve thier customers (new map yet?) reap what they sow.

[Spidey]

I believe lotro PvP is entering a perfect storm of epic proportions between GW2 and the RoR changes. They think that somehow these changes are going to help PvP, they are sadly mistaken. It may or may not work on the the big servers like Elendilmir and Brandywine, depending how many on those servers stay in lotro, and I have already heard that a sizable tribe on BW is leaving en masse to GW2. On the small servers, GW2/RoR is the death knell of PvP, IMO. Just RoR would put small servers on life support, but GW2 will pull the plug.

Every lotro PvPer wants a Helmsdeep/Osgiliath/Gondor type epic battlefield, it will never happen in lotro, but GW2 offers up just that. It may not have the look of those places, but it definately has the feel of those battles.

[Doro]

Spidey, on 24 July 2012 - 16:08, said:

Every lotro PvPer wants a Helmsdeep/Osgiliath/Gondor type epic battlefield, it will never happen in lotro, but GW2 offers up just that. It may not have the look of those places, but it definately has the feel of those battles.

Apologies if this sounds lewd (because it is) but my nips are so hard right now. BRING ON GW2!!!

[Spidey]

Was just reading the ad scroll on this site. Rift is introducing 3 faction conquest PvP. Seems turbine isn't the only MMO running scared.

[Thorgrum]

Spidey, on 24 July 2012 - 16:08, said:

Every lotro PvPer wants a Helmsdeep/Osgiliath/Gondor type epic battlefield, it will never happen in lotro, but GW2 offers up just that. It may not have the look of those places, but it definately has the feel of those battles.

the scope of WvWvW is really impressive. I spent 4 hours on saturday running around doing a few battles but exploring. Its truly an epic PvP arena, it has weaknesses (its vast and travel is slow)but this really blows away the moors, no contest.

In terms of your other points, I agree small servers are in for some rocky times. Bare in mind we havent seen the freep changes yet Im sure they will be getting nice new LI's and DPS upgrades. Imagine a VIP or F2P trying creepside, they roll a reaver 3 weeks after RoR hits.

They dont know anyone, have no audacity. They are pretty much screwed, talk about a slog. One of the key elements to Gw2 is on day 1 I can go to PvP worlds and fight and be close to an equal footing. not in Lotro, this new update effectively makes it harder to get into PvP, unless you like to die a lot.

[The MMO Troll]

Spidey, on 24 July 2012 - 16:19, said:

Was just reading the ad scroll on this site. Rift is introducing 3 faction conquest PvP. Seems turbine isn't the only MMO running scared.

Conquest has been Live in Rift for a month or so now. Running scared? Not so much, I think of it as Trion "keeping up with the neighbors", so to speak, as Trion has a great track record of keeping Rift updated with awesome new features.

... Unlike Turbine with LOTRO.