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How to fix many of the crashes in LOTRO Helms Deep and RoR (Riders of Rohan)


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#1 Darmokk

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 19:32

Many of the new crashes, usually attributed to too much memory consumption, seem to be caused by hitting the default limit of 2 GB virtual address space that many 32 bit windows version allow for a 32 bit user process.

You can switch this limit to allow 3 GB. There are many links on how to do this, start with this one:

http://usa.autodesk....&linkID=9240697
Another one, mentioning windows XP:
http://dwf.blogs.com...dows-vista.html

It is a systemwide setting but I can assure you that it isn't doing harm otherwise. When a 64 bit kernel runs your 32 bit program (aka lotro) it allows 4 GB of virtual address space to be given out. That's why 64 bit OS users are better off, although they, too, run a 32 bit LOTRO. The difference is in how much virtual address space is available.

Note that this has nothing at all to do with RAM, and not with swapspace either (also note that some Mickeysoft consumer-facing dialog boxes incorrectly name swapspace "virtual memory", although they use the right terms in developer and ops documentation).

This switch will prevent the out-of-memory situation you have (virtual address space) by lifting the 2 GB limit to 3 GB. It applies equally whether you have 512 MB of RAM or 4 GB or 8 GB or whatever.

==================================================================================================

To elaborate more:

I monitored virtual memory usage of the LOTRO client. From the outside it looks like it tries to pre-allocate all the virtual memory it will ever use, with the usage being right below 2 GB right from the start. RAM usage is around 500-600 MB at that time.

It looks like somebody fucked up in the RoR version and wrote code that takes more virtual memory not from the preallocated areas but asks the OS for more, which then makes the process grow from right below 2 GB to a little bit more than 2 GB. Which means KABOOM for many of you.

The result of that is that if you have the 2 GB default limit you crash, but if you have switched to 3 GB virtual address space limit you continue to run. That's how the "fix" works.
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#2 Darmokk

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 21:01

Garbalas pointed out one exception to "this is safe to do" in the other thread.

With crappy enough drivers it might not be safe to use this with XP. Personally I recommend that you trash hardware that needs such drivers.

Look here for some more details:
http://msdn.microsof...2(v=vs.85).aspx

They write at the end of the article:
On Windows XP, some drivers, especially video adapter drivers with onboard RAM, cannot run with the /3GB parameter because they require more address space than the 1 GB kernel address space permits.


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#3 The MMO Troll

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 16:37

Good information, thanks for putting this together.
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#4 Darmokk

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:33

Copying this from the official forum where I summarized the current situation:

1) The hardware requirements as listed for LOTRO are incorrect, even before it starts growing. Turbine should correct this. There is no way to play in a reasonable manner with less than 2 GB RAM, and people's OS need to be very slim to do 2 GB nicely.

2) 32 bit OSes that default to 2 GB virtual address space aren't Turbine's fault. But they have never given official instructions telling people to switch to 3 GB. It is unclear whether anybody inside Turbine who is in a position to publish things understands the fine points. 32 bit OS users need to switch to 3 GB and XP users need to hope they don't have junk hardware with drivers preventing that. Users should note that they have to switch virtual memory from 2 to 3 GB no matter what amount of RAM they have, even if they have 1.5 GB RAM.

3) To me it looks, as far as I can tell from the outside, that the LOTRO client tries to preallocate 2 GB of virtual address space right at startup and then intents to feed all code requirements off that preallocated area. That means code isn't expected to grab more from the OS. After RoR this happens - some code grabs new virtual memory from the OS and those with the 2 GB limit in place crash. Note that this has nothing to do with RAM (or your swapfile or paging space).

4) RoR also grows in RAM, in addition to what looks like growing in virtual memory by accident. It is unclear whether it's the same code that grows in RAM and that gets virtual memory (really, it doesn't have to be the same). I can't compare it to pre-RoR. I'm not sure it's a leak as such but it slows down people with low RAM, in particular those who combine it with 64 bit OSes


Also note that "virtual memory" is not swapspace, your paging file etc.
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#5 Brrokk

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:50

An update from me: since you identified this fix for me about a week ago I've had NO crashes, playing every evening. Previously I was crashing at least once an hour. Thanks again!
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#6 Laurinaohtar

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:52

Where did you post this on the official forums, I can't find the thread?
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#7 Darmokk

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:38

Where did you post this on the official forums, I can't find the thread?


Looks like their forum crashed today. Out of memory? :-)

http://forums.lotro....907#post6510907
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#8 Tanith

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 16:46

I haven't been able to log into the game since the update...every time I start the launcher it stalls during "Examine Game Data" with "Cannot Save Files". Then the only way I can shut the damn thing down is to go into my task manager.

:?
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#9 Spidey

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 14:21

Well, since my Win 7 64 bit rig is about to be sent in for warranty repair I thought I'd try this fix for my XP 32 bit rig. It won't play GW2 so I'm stuck with LOTRO. I get this line of text

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

and I have tried using the examples on that website and can't get it to run without crashing, any help would be appreciated.
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#10 Darmokk

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 14:40

Well, since my Win 7 64 bit rig is about to be sent in for warranty repair I thought I'd try this fix for my XP 32 bit rig. It won't play GW2 so I'm stuck with LOTRO. I get this line of text

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

and I have tried using the examples on that website and can't get it to run without crashing, any help would be appreciated.


What you are saying is that you tried to make the 3 GB virt switch and this is the result?

If so, what hardware do you have (graphics, sound etc)? Try setting 2.5 GB or 2.3 or something. It is probably one of your drivers being one of those that invade that space.
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#11 Spidey

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 17:04

the /noexecute=optin was there from the start. I've tried it by replacing it with /3gb, tried leaving it and adding /3gb in the correct places, still the same result, I crash. Even though I select the 3gb option in Startup Options, at startup I still have to choose it again before the OS starts.

I have a Radeon 9250 GPU and on board sound.
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#12 Garbalas

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 22:46

If you use only the /3GB switch that will try to give the user processes the full 3GB of address space. I found it useful to be a bit more defensive.
You can try combinations of

/3GB [ /userva=SizeInMB ]


So anything between /3GB /userva=2048 which would not help you because that is what the system provides anyway as default, and /3GB /userva=3072 which is what happens if you only provide the /3GB switch alone, are valid setups.

I found that LoTRO usually already runs fine with /3GB /userva=2500 and on my machines I use a little more agressively /3GB /userva=2900
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#13 Amaryllia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 17:39

Do you or anyone else have any idea how you would do this for windows 8? A kinmate updated and was only able to get hold of the 32 bit version, and is crashing, I have no clue if it would be the same or different, so I said I would try and find out!

thank you :)
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#14 nosam9

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:52

I just referred to this thread in the main Lotro forums, so players can get help with the memory leak. It would be nice to keep it on topic and open, so new viewers can ask or comment on the topic too.
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#15 Trinsec

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:38

Hid all the non-relevant posts. Continue using this thread to help the community.
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#16 Laurinaohtar

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 15:32

I see only one good reason for this thread to be closed, I guess I shouldn't have posted a link to this forum!
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This is a serious discussion

 

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#17 Darmokk

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 14:50

Bump because there are more people with this issue now in Helm's Deep.

Also, I'm banned on the official forums so I can't give Turbine free tech support.
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#18 warspeech

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 15:03

Bump because there are more people with this issue now in Helm's Deep.

Also, I'm banned on the official forums so I can't give Turbine free tech support.

 

This information was the only thing that kept my old computer running LOTRO, thanks for putting this together.


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