143 replies to this topic

[Da Brudders]

Very interesting resurrected thread here (from page 18 onwards) regarding the new store only relics that were introduced with no fanfare with update 3.

A day later after the uproar began Turbine removed any mention of their claim that the store would be for "convenience not advantage". It was always going to happen but the speed they are ramping up the store for advantage purposes is very depressing.

[Agra]

http://webcache.goog...=www.google.com

[Paolosh Ishara]

just read the two links above.....'sad' & 'disgusted' spring to mind but so does 'expected' unfortunately

[kitkat]

Yep, was bound to happen as soon as the accountants realised people people actually would use the store.
I thought it would take a bit longer than this but it was inevitable that it would happen sooner or later.

[Spheric]

I noticed that. I believe this post probably had something to do with it. It provided a direct link to the "convienience, not advantage" assurance. It's from the thread where they buried and combined threads in the sub-sub-forum LOTRO Store Feedback. The thread still won't die, though:

Quote

The forum post below will someday be purged and claimed to be urban legend:

http://forums.lotro.....65#post4698465

Sigh. Fact is, there is nothing at this point that could go into the store that would shock me. Disappoint? Yes. Shock? Nope. I am a lifer and still plan to enjoy the latest new content and Isengard and all. When the time comes I *need* to pay to do stuff (as in my free 500 TP/month isn't enough to even participate in end game content), I'll be done. We are not there yet, not by quite some means, but the groundwork has been laid for the future design paradigm. Namely, bigger and more painful grinds, and stuff in the store to avoid them or mitigate the pain of doing them...

Slippery slope arguments are often overwrought, but surely the huge gobs of grease on this slope are there for all to see

http://forums.lotro....688#post5397688

It's gonna take them some time to purge all of their previous statements. For example, this from the signup FAQ:

Quote

7. Will I still be able to play and enjoy the game without buying items from the LOTRO Store, or is that my only option for gaining weapons, armor, potions, and other goodies such as premium loot?

The purchase of items in the LOTRO Store is entirely optional. While items in the Store are designed to immediately enhance your in-game experience, premium loot and rare gear are the rewards of adventure and are only obtainable through gameplay.

http://www.lotro.com...signup/faq.html

[Letsdance]

Some frank and well written posts on page 28 of the thread. I'm not surprised the game is going this way but it's still gutting.
My view is that everything in store should be available in-game. You might have to complete deeds or grind for weeks but each item should be accessible to all players. Store exclusive like the temporary IXP or XP buff make sense, you can buy this with destiny points already, no DP then go to store.
But removing end game gear from the game and bringing it back as exclusive at a TP that requires players to pay cash is a kick in the cojones.

EDIT - I'll also add that Turbine are at risk of hastening the demise of their cash cow (lotro) with this cut-throat commercial approach. It just takes the introduction of a credible next generation MMO for players to vote with their feet (i.e. SWTOR, Guild Wars 2, The Secret World).

[Valandir]

Just in case Turbine lets google delete the cached site...

[Silirien]

Letsdance, on 26 May 2011 - 12:10, said:

EDIT - I'll also add that Turbine are at risk of hastening the demise of their cash cow (lotro) with this cut-throat commercial approach. It just takes the introduction of a credible next generation MMO for players to vote with their feet (i.e. SWTOR, Guild Wars 2, The Secret World).

Let's make sure this cut-throat commercial approach is advertised across the industry

[Paolosh Ishara]

Silirien, on 26 May 2011 - 12:46, said:

Let's make sure this cut-throat commercial approach is advertised across the industry

yeah why not . lets have a big placard above there heads with 'Greedy B*****s' written on. i already boycot some well known american frachises for the same reason (money grabbin we call it up here in newcastle). the one thing garunteed to get my back up. lets not let em ruin the gaming/MMo industry like they have with the fastfood/coffee/etc industries

[Hendirion]

That's pretty sad, good google cached the post in question. I screened it as well and saved it onto my hd. Won't help a bit tho. Any money which was supposed to go towards Turbine will now go towards other games (at first STO, once TOR hits the street I might put money into this)

[Vardiel]

"And besides, you won't be able to buy gold." With the light of these recent events, is this about to change too?

I actually still am a bit surprised, even though I shouldn't be, that they would actually delete their old statements and try to hide what was perhaps true at the time. The uproar should rise some waves in game media. Articles saying it loud and clear that Turbine is speaking one thing even while they're doing or planning to do the other would make Turbine think twice. Should could would... sigh. As much as I'm annoyed, I'm also getting a sense of fear (spider sense) that this will dig a deep grave for Lotro.

[Calendae]

why should you buy gold in the store, if (and at the moment it's a big if) the (more or less arguable) "best" stuff is available in the store, and store exclusive?

no need to buy gold then ...

[Vardiel]

In-game money isn't important. I just picked that line from Patience's post where the "convenience not advantage" comment was too. Selling gold (via official store) is common in many Free/Micropayment games, but in Lotro gold is just a convenience.

[Da Brudders]

The way Turbine constantly go back on their word just increases the annoyance and pain. We all knew, really, that once their was a store it would only be a matter of time before it sold everything but for some reason Turbine has repeatedly denied the "doom mongers" who pointed this out and made claims to the opposite. No surprise that it finally happens but the resentment of being misled just breeds disdain with the company.

Imagine Kate Paiz next newsletter...

Hi everyone

When I get home after a busy evening I always log on to LOTRO and my first stop is the LOTRO Store. This month I bought all the store only relics and they were awesome. Go and buy them yourself is all I can say. And the speed increase buff and a horse or two so I can put my children through college.

Puke

[Ardaniel]

I haven't logged into the game in almost 2 months. I had started wondering why I felt this disinclination to log in when before I couldn't wait to get home and log on. I still kept up with lotro news so why didn't I want to log in?

This news has made clear why. I was getting disillusioned with Turbine and the game. I no longer felt that I was playing a game but entering a chat room with options to buy things. Lotro is turning into a shopping mall where all panels basically beg you to take a look at some item or the other.

I feel as if I've finally reached the point where I can let lotro go. Oh well it was a good 3.5 years.

[Hajile]

More sinister and unpleasant news from Turbine:

"Once you have this currency of points in the store, it lets you reward the player with that currency for the things that you like that they do; so, for example, if they are posting in the forums and they are a very positive member of the community, you could send them a hundred store points... they are helping you out." --Fernando Paiz, PAX East keynote address, March 12, 2011

In other words, he's saying that they intend to use points awards in order to bribe players into behaving like toadying lackeys and do all their PR work for them.

I wonder how long it would take them to think of doing the opposite, and take points away from people for slagging them off in the form of 'fines'...

Listen to the entire keynote speech if you want a good idea of Turbine's new direction. He pretty much laughs at the idea that players are incredibly dissatisfied with Tubine's direction, simply because they're now raking it in. "Oh, what's that, you're not happy? I couldn't hear your cries over the sound of all this money being counted," is the general tone...

It's as shocking as it is sad. Both Paizes really need to be removed from the decision making processes at that company before they bury it.

[Letsdance]

This further justifies the absolute need for a forum such as this. Somewhere you can discuss issues constructively and in a safe environment.  

People that suck up to corporates are often labelled shills. Sounds like the official forums will be full of sickly sweet sycophants  

[Hendirion]

Hajile, on 27 May 2011 - 13:26, said:

In other words, he's saying that they intend to use points awards in order to bribe players into behaving like toadying lackeys and do all their PR work for them.

that's what I call footlickers, they have no real backbone - just spit out stuff they have been taught to get their "money" in. You could also compare them to old eastgermany, russia, china, etc where people would do what they had to do to gain an advantage over others, be it simple folk or gamers who happen to disagree and voice their opinion. Pretty sad and bad to see this behaviour in the gaming industry.

Hajile, on 27 May 2011 - 13:26, said:

It's as shocking as it is sad. Both Paizes really need to be removed from the decision making processes at that company before they bury it.

Dont think they'll remove them at all. As long as they can count their money like good old Dagobert Duck they are the perfect people, until it's too late and someone has to turn off the lights. Sadly.

Letsdance, on 27 May 2011 - 17:41, said:

This further justifies the absolute need for a forum such as this. Somewhere you can discuss issues constructively and in a safe environment.  

Absolutely!

[SoDT]

Letsdance, on 27 May 2011 - 17:41, said:

People that suck up to corporates are often labelled shills. Sounds like the official forums will be full of sickly sweet sycophants  

Hey, don't knock it, if all it takes for me to be given free "money" I will post "bottom licking" posts.. at least I don't have to do it for real  

Maybe two accounts are required, one for a*s*-licking and one for the truth  

[Hajile]

Hendirion, on 27 May 2011 - 18:23, said:

Dont think they'll remove them at all. As long as they can count their money like good old Dagobert Duck they are the perfect people, until it's too late and someone has to turn off the lights. Sadly.

You're absolutely right, which is the really sad part about it.

My only hope is that in a while - perhaps it'll happen in the next 12 months, perhaps it'll take a bit longer - but eventually when they have completed LOTRO's transformation from an online RPG of worth into a virtual mall with a Middle-earth themed lobby area, they won't have any customers left and Turbine will suddenly go "hey, where did all our players go?" and look at the Paizes suspiciously...

Not likely, I know, but perhaps that would be enough for them to start looking at the validity of the business model they have chosen. Maybe if it falls flat on its face it can be held up as an example to the rest of the industry NOT to screw your player base through microtransactions while chasing a casual gaming market that is going to burst very, very soon if industry experts have a single clue.

If that ever happens, however, Turbine as a company will be done. Warner would drop them like a bad habit.

Edited by Hajile, 27 May 2011 - 19:21.