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The things I have said that Sapience does not like.


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#661 Stavro Mueller

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:16

She (he?) declared that there was fighting and the posts were removed. Except there was no fighting (rarely did the LOTRO community agree on anything in this manner) but that's the trail they leave for the public to see when it comes to questioning where some posts went.

According to Sapience, the execs get a number of posts, number of unique posters, and overall tone of the thread.

When the number of unique posters in the NAY category gets too high in comparison to the fanbois, what better way to fix that ratio than to claim "fighting" and use that as an excuse to delete a bunch of posts from those who have only posted once or twice in the thread.
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#662 Tanith

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:29

I will wander off-topic slightly for a moment to make this observation...I've given out more rep this week, in that thread, than I have at any time since the rep system was introduced.

Make of that what you will.

;)
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#663 Knowfere

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 03:18

I will wander off-topic slightly for a moment to make this observation...I've given out more rep this week, in that thread, than I have at any time since the rep system was introduced.

Make of that what you will.

;)


I have too!
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#664 Darmokk

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:20

Looks like they deleted all my posts in the armour thread in the last 24 hours. I think I saved a few but what do I care?
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#665 Doro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 14:07

Posting here to save it.

I'm sure many others have stated this but their posts have been lost to the pages of this thread.

Turbine made a big point of saying that only convenience not advantage would be placed in the Store and that they would never put statted armour in the Store.

As we all know, Turbine broke the former promise ages ago so now all but the tattered remains are left hanging to be shot at.

The latter, however, is the recent breaking of their word. They knew what they were doing when the put it in. Their excuse for this? That it's low level armour, that there isn't enough low level armour on the AH and that it's not as good as some armour you can get.

Firstly, it doesn't matter that it's low level, it's that it's clearly the first step in putting high level gear in and that they've broken their word.

Secondly, saying that there isn't enough on the AH for low levels is ridiculous since, if that's the case, just add a vendor that sells low level armour at the same strength as crafted. The Store was not needed but Turbine couldn't pass up a chance to squeeze yet more money out of this dying cow.

Finally, that it isn't the best set at those levels. Players have already checked this and it's just a completely fallacious statement. The Store bought armour is actually the best set for those low levels and saying otherwise is misrepresenting the truth.

The best bit about all of this? Turbine has found a way to use player demands to fuel their Store. All those things we've asked for over the years and now not been given are taking a back seat to things like this.

Brilliantly, what they've done is put a load of new players on to the idea of armour from the Store. They'll buy it and play through the levels, confused as to why they're being rewarded armour from quests when they don't need it thanks to the Store. Then, when they've out levelled it, they'll complain that there isn't higher level armour for them. Turbine will then gladly meet their need and add high level armour to the Store because they're 'meeting player demand'. They've effectively created their own monster and they're ecstatic about it.

So it seems Turbine has broken their word, yet again, to add armour to the Store for a fallacious demand which will then help them later when 'genuine' demands are made for high level gear.

Good work, Turbine.


http://forums.lotro....975#post5942975
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#666 Ingaras

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 16:22

Looks like they deleted all my posts in the armour thread in the last 24 hours. I think I saved a few but what do I care?


You made too much sense! :D
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#667 Beldacar

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 20:57

Posting here to save it.



http://forums.lotro....975#post5942975


And this is the heart of the issue regarding F2P in general: the developer controls the supply of "goods" and can artificially create demand by changing the game.

As long as they stick to things like cosmetic items and "pure convenience" items like storage (more arguable, but manipulating the demand for more storage is a lot harder to accomplish), F2P stores can be fine. Even "grind reduction" items can be OK if they reduce an already existing grind, though the line gets a lot finer when new grinds are introduced. But once you get consumables (oh, look, they added store-bought potions that cure three "conditions" right around the same time they introduced an instance cluster with more "conditions" being applied than ever before), basic statistics (oh, look, they added stat tomes and then redid the stat system to make stacking stats more desirable), and equipment (oh, look, in the interests of creating a more dynamic player-based economy they added store-bought crafting tools that compete directly with crafted crafting tools and store-bought armor that competes directly with crafted armor), then you're not starting down a slippery slope, you're actually quite a ways down that slope and accelerating rapidly.

The reality of the Turbine F2P model is that it's very similar to the coal mining industry around the turn of the century in the US. If you were a coal miner, you lived in housing supplied by the mining company (and paid rent determined by the mining company), you wore clothing sold in the company store, and you used safety equipment and tools sold in the company store (and you could only use that equipment and those tools, because they were "certified" by the company for "your safety and that of your colleagues"). Sure, you weren't a "slave" because you could quit your job; good luck finding another one, though.

Well, sure, people could stop playing the only Tolkien-based MMO; good luck finding another one based on that same body of work, though.
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#668 Darmokk

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 21:02

I recall a time when the economy and it's balance when it comes to player's crafted items, materials collected and selling mechanism was considered a very important thing for any MMO. It was considered a critical mechanism for player retention.

Problem is, player retention plays no role for Turbine. They are trying to turn the game into a theme park like thing that you visit for a short time, spend $40-$200, then leave and maybe come back next year to spend another $40-$200.
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#669 Artamir92

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:50

What a disgusting company Turbine have become. How could they have fallen so low in a couple of years? I really could not fault them during 2007-2008, but in the past couple of years they have been terrible.

What I want to know is why they suddenly stopped caring about their players around 2009-2010? Was that Warner Brothers, or perhaps something else?

Turbine, what have you become?
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#670 SellingTheDrama

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 14:33

What I want to know is why they suddenly stopped caring about their players around 2009-2010? Was that Warner Brothers, or perhaps something else?



right around the time Patience left Turbine was when i noticed the change in their attitude towards their customers.

at first it was just on the forums, but then it started showing up in the game.
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#671 MueR

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 23:30

Guys, names of Turbine employees are dodgy enough. Personal details are NOT to be posted, unless that person publicly releases them.
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#672 Jackalope

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 15:31

Uhm, it IS publicly available. Obviously. By the person in question no less. But I digress.
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How did buying a lifetime account become a free ride, and an example of not supporting Turbine? That money left my pocket and they took it. Free it was not.

#673 Dalthalion

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 17:14

Without a doubt, but perhaps there are things about Mr. Brennan that are best left unsaid. Now, where's that steel wool for my brain ... ?
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#674 Doro

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 17:20

Without a doubt, but perhaps there are things about Mr. Brennan that are best left unsaid. Now, where's that steel wool for my brain ... ?


I would lend you my steel wool but sadly I had to throw it out. Never had the remains of a cleaning binge look so bad before.
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#675 LordVorontur

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 18:53

Indeed, Celestrata gave that interview. But anyway, it's beside the point.
Whether dude, lady or transgendered, what matters is not what they are, it's how they are(as regards behaviour and attitude towards others).

I couldn't give a rats backside what people choose to do when they're not in work, or how to live those lives.
What I do care about is what they choose to do when they are in work.

And the less I say about that, the better, I think.
I'm currently on an extended LOTRO break in any case.
How long depends on many different things.
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#676 Toe

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 19:35

right around the time Patience left Turbine was when i noticed the change in their attitude towards their customers.

at first it was just on the forums, but then it started showing up in the game.


It's amazing the difference one competent person can make. Patience used to say; "I'll take it up with the Dev team, but no promises" whenever there was a hot issue on the forums. She was a customer rep that actually represented the views of the customers to the people making the decisions.

Sapience is an ass. He does the opposite and only represents the views of the company to the customers. He apparently thinks his job is to make customers think that whatever Turbine does to them is a good thing and to infract / delete / ban anyone that doesn't enthusiastically embrace their way of thinking.

I don't see any hope of improvement until Turbine hires someone that actually listens to the customers.
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#677 Dalthalion

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 20:29

That was the whole thing with Patience. She told you what she (personally) was committed to doing, while acknowledging the distinction between the customer-facing and business aspects of Turbine. I believe that she began planning her departure when it was impressed upon her that such a line of distinction should be blurred.
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#678 AgamemnonV1

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 17:25

That was the whole thing with Patience. She told you what she (personally) was committed to doing, while acknowledging the distinction between the customer-facing and business aspects of Turbine. I believe that she began planning her departure when it was impressed upon her that such a line of distinction should be blurred.

Patience (like other CMs) worked on a contract basis. Her contract was simply "up". Some CMs only work on "start up" contracts, where they stick with the community until it has its feet firmly on the ground (some months after release).
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#679 Dalthalion

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 17:42

Granted, but there are certainly a number of things at Turbine that could have motivated her not to renew her contract (if it was, indeed, offered as an option to her).
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#680 SellingTheDrama

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 20:45

Patience (like other CMs) worked on a contract basis. Her contract was simply "up". Some CMs only work on "start up" contracts, where they stick with the community until it has its feet firmly on the ground (some months after release).


ya...Patience left the lotro community to become the overall community manager for all 3 of turbines games.

she got promoted..she was Saps boss.

when she quit they never hired a replacement...or if they have that person has never made themselves known.
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