18 replies to this topic

[Dalthalion]

Now that I have had some time to work a bit with my minstrel since the release of RoI, I can say that there was a bit to get used to.  The new ballad-anthem-coda method is different from the old tier method, in that the minstrel goes from I-can-do-it-all mode to my-stance-governs-my-role mode.

War-speech seems the biggest beneficiary of the new method, especially with the Coda of Fury.  I was able to read several instances of people in global chat channels with lvl 65+ characters achieving damage of 5000+ with that Coda.  Even during my tests with a level 36 minstrel, my devastating crit averaged at about 1200.  I've yet to play around with Harmony in a group, so I can't speak to that yet.

I will miss being able to continually buff a fellowship as I choose, but I am willing to give the changes a fair shake.

[Delanna]

Call me strange, but it feels like I'm playing a healing based warden clone.  Change 'coda' for 'gambit' and you're there!

[Dalthalion]

An interesting insight.  The evidence does seem to support that.

[Darmokk]

Delanna, on 27 September 2011 - 16:53, said:

Call me strange, but it feels like I'm playing a healing based warden clone.  Change 'coda' for 'gambit' and you're there!

Is a Mini even feasible now, for a player who just can't remember gambits?

[Dalthalion]

The main difference is that, for a Coda to be used, you have to have the effects of three ballads in play, and not in any particular order.  In that respect, there's less memorisation involved.

[Vardiel]

I retraited for harmony too. Even so, I seem to out-DPS and out-survive my old minstrel. Somehow minstrelling (solo) was actually fun! I didn't run out of power like I did in War-speech before (I might if I had been on WS..?) nor was I killing slow or dying.

A kinsmate commented on the warden gambit thing too, but I actually failt so see the connection. 3 ballads to hit first aren't Spear-Shield-Fist, but rather how much damage, power or heal we want. Anthems are our buffs and Coda is the only warden-esque "finisher"  which is affected by the last anthem. I don't know if non-minstrel can see the difference, but having played warden too.. it's not the same.

Being able to heal oneself fully in WS seems nice, going to try that next. I especially like the huge in-combat morale regens I can get.

[Delanna]

The gambit analogy comes in with the anthem/coda part.  It's not exactly the same, but every anthem does somet different to the codas - increased crit chance, morale HoT, power HoT and so on.  Similar to Warden stuff but a lot easier to remember, lol.

[Dalthalion]

It's a shame I'd already become accustomed to using the old ballads or anthems for specific purposes.  They have consolidated a lot of the effects, to be certain, which would make re-memorizing them easier.  But, then again, I don't like change.

Codas may be the hardest thing for me to get used to, since they remove all active ballads and anthems upon use.  In the past, I used to be able to keep my favourite anthems up, while making myself useful in other ways.  Now I have to decide between keeping an anthem up or doing something spectacular (I used to be able to do both.).  It's a hard choice, as I'm not a flash-in-the-pan sort of person, and I generally handle combat encounters in expectation of the long haul.

[Darmokk]

Is there any wiki with all the skill chaims after the update?

[Dalthalion]

One of the biggest changes I've noticed is the minstrel's enhanced soloability.

I recently took my level 36 minstrel through the Dol Dinen fellowship quests in warspeech, and the only one I could not complete myself was Master of the Black Tide.  It was a little bit of a learning curve, but using Anthem of Composure's after-coda effect helped me a lot, as it would keep my power up all the time, allowing me to keep myself healed (By the way, if anyone wants to work on their minstrel class traits involving healing/Raise the Spirit in the 30's, Dol Dinen will not disappoint.).  DPS was slow but steady, even against two elites at a time (three was sort of a stretch).

Another thing that helped me in particular to avoid unwanted pulls was Song of Distraction, especially when it came to getting to and taking out Ongburz Man-slayers near the upper tiers of the Dol Dinen fort.

[Vardiel]

I can certainly agree to the soloability. It's not as good as with the DPS heavy classes (namely Champ which I've been playing lots recently), but compared to the old minstrel we're in a good position.

And it's the varieability that I like. In short what I mean is: I can adjust how much I focus on damage, threat and healing more easily, on the fly. (Self)healing in War-speech has saved me a lot, and when I start to run out of power, I don't have to (always) cry for Lore-Master.

[Darmokk]

If I ever re-try playing I should probably give my mini a shot. It is only 20 but I hear leveling is lighting fast now.

How is the Mini when it comes to cutting through Moria?

[Dalthalion]

I've never taken a minstrel into Moria, so I've got nothing there.  Anyone else?

[Iorionael]

I've levelled two mini's to 75. Both went through Moria solo before the changes with no problems.

Seeing the changes that have been done, I would say it is simplicity itself to level one through Moria. The last class I levelled through it was a Champ, which I find, even after the changes, much harder to solo anything. That may be just me of course Scrub that, it definitely IS me. I'm useless with her, but found Moria to be a walk in the park with a Champ.

I can solo content with my Mini's much more easily than I can with any other class. (Grd, burg, hunter, champ all at 75 now).
I can solo SG, FT, NF, StH and most of GS with a mini that has only two pieces of the Draig armour and crafted everything else. I have failed every time on other classes. It may be that I can play the mini well and others less so.

In conclusion, if you managed to work your way through all my drivel , is that the mini is the perfect class to solo your way through the content. Warspeach and huge self heals with no penalty says it all...

[Haimostigar]

I've leveled my Mini through Moria just in the past month or two. Personally I've love playing the Mini but since it is the only class I've taken through Moria so far, it's hard to say how well it does. I did all the epics, plus going into Moria a little over 50, added up to being over leveled on some of the last quests. Still some fellowship ones I need to go back and do. Most small fellowships I did solo.

[Darmokk]

Iorionael, on 28 February 2012 - 22:37, said:

Seeing the changes that have been done, I would say it is simplicity itself to level one through Moria. The last class I levelled through it was a Champ, which I find, even after the changes, much harder to solo anything. That may be just me of course Scrub that, it definitely IS me. I'm useless with her, but found Moria to be a walk in the park with a Champ.

Hmm, that sentence looks garbled? Did you mean "Mini" with that last word?

[Iorionael]

Darmokk, on 28 February 2012 - 23:54, said:

Hmm, that sentence looks garbled? Did you mean "Mini" with that last word?

I'll clear it up slightly (I hope!).

Before the changes, I had levelled up two Mini's through Moria, both times I found it easy. Imo, levelling a mini through Moria after the class got 'a whole lotta love' would be *much* easier.

I say this because I find that playing a mini is much easier than playing a champ. I levelled a champ through moria after the changes and it was extremely easy, so I think that the mini would be simplicity itself.

So, in order of difficulty (from easiest to hardest)...

1 new mini
2 new champ
3 old mini

Off topic: TBH, The solo content of Moria has been dumbed down so much over the time since release it is not a challenge any more for any class. Access to goats, less aggro range, less mobs, easier to get swift travel, most classes getting a makeover of one kind or another make it that way.

[Darmokk]

Well I'm not concerned about the challenge level of actual quests in Moria.

I dread going in there because there are all these corridors of new fast-spawning mobs that I have to hack through. Not dangerous but boring as well.  This isn't DooM where you could just collect more ammo for the rocket launcher.

[Iorionael]

Darmokk, on 29 February 2012 - 18:10, said:

Well I'm not concerned about the challenge level of actual quests in Moria.

I dread going in there because there are all these corridors of new fast-spawning mobs that I have to hack through. Not dangerous but boring as well.  This isn't DooM where you could just collect more ammo for the rocket launcher.

There are a couple of things that will help greatly.

1) Get the Thorins hall goat so you can get about faster.

2) Fear is the mind killer! The mobs don't spawn that fast these days, nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

3) Get a good walkthrough

4) If possible duo it with someone that knows it well, failing that duo when you can with whomever is about.

5) Use travel skills to get off roughly where the quest areas are, that saves hacking through mobs on the way. This is  really useful in the silvertine lodes and the area south of the 21st hall.

6) Use the 'death by misdadventure' technique of swift travel to head back to outposts. I.e. stuck in the silvertine lodes? just go jump to your death and you'll end up back at the deep descent. This technique doesn't damage your armour, all you'll need is some hope tokens to pop. It's useful but you don't have to do it *that* often.

7) Level to at least 50 before starting, maybe even 51-52 if it's your first time through. 50 for the deeds (they don't start counting until then), 51-52 to help with the mobs. A level or two makes a huge difference.

Use the still as death skill as much as you like, run past trash and then 'sleep' where you need to be. The cooldown has been cut to 5 minutes (less with an LI legacy).

That's all I can think off offhand, sure there are many more tips out there