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  1. 13 points
    Hey there! I am SNy, and I used to play LotRO. Being a long time lurker over there and more recently here, I found that, after the latest developments, threads and comments, I just have to improve upon my original take on the "Turbine Dictionary of Contemporary English", with the initial version (still) being here. So, without much further ado, here comes a wall of text. Enjoy. --- Turbine Dictionary of Contemporary English v2, 2014-07-03, CopyLeft (L) SNy -- always [ˈɔːl.weɪz], adverb an indeterminate period of time that ends when Turbine sees fit; antonym: never (ref) used to denote facts that will never (refs) change (also ref foreseeable future) (quote) "The epic story will always be free to all players." answer [ˈɑːn.sər], noun a sequence of words (ref) supposedly intended as a reply to a question or issue, which it might or might not answer/address often worded (ref words) bluntly (ref blunt) and intentionally vague (ref honest) sometimes involves facts and/or data (refs) never ends with a period, because the CM is always calm, blunt and honest (refs) balance [ˈbæl.əns], noun or lack thereof, resulting from balancing issues (ref) and pertaining to a state where classes are under-/overpowered with respect to the environment (ie: mobs, ref challenge) and/or to other classes' capabilities (can apply to PvE as well as PvMP) balancing issue [ˈbæl.ənsɪŋ ˈɪʃ.uː], verb + noun, pl result of the... interesting... sequence of breaking existing (and possibly new) content/systems by the simultaneous implementation of unwise and/or incoherent changes (ref stat changes and skill bloat), poor scaling as well as class revamps (ref trait trees), a subsequent failure of internal QA (ref) to find, let alone correct, any of them, followed by not fixing and sometimes not even acknowledging them despite them being reported over and over in beta, releasing them to live, present annoyed players with blunt and honest answers (refs) and then leaving them broken for months on end with a few non-achieving attempts at fixes and more answers (refs) that might or might not hint at ongoing work to address them soon (ref) while hoping the players forget that one of the supposed key points for the necessity and appropriateness of switching to trait trees (ref) was to make balancing issues easier to resolve big battles [bɪɡ ˈbæt.l̩s], adjective + noun, pl formerly designated epic battles for the foreseeable future (ref) the be-all-end-all replacement of classic group content and raids (refs) characteristics are the utter irrelevance of class skills and the introduction of yet another new meta-game (ref) involving roles, ranks and promotions as well as lottery loot (ref loot mechanic) for rewards (ref) blunt [blʌnt], adjective rude, snarky, dismissive, condescending primarily in answers by the CM, often in conjunction with honest (refs) challenge [ˈtʃæl.ɪndʒ], noun or lack thereof, resulting from balancing issues (ref) due to a combination of stat changes (ref) and stat bloat, changes to core game mechanics (ref trait trees) and poor scaling Absense of challenge is evident from the possibility to solo (in the rest-of-the-world meaning of the word) on-level group content and even raids (refs). Members and self-appointed spokespersons (ref fact) of the silent majority (ref) sometimes try to refute this by pointing out that not everyone, and certainly not themselves, was capable of doing it, at which point there would be a characteristic *wooosh* sound to be heard in their vicinity, because the point that went right by them is that it is possible at all, when it clearly shouldn't be (and more importantly, hasn't been, in earlier incarnations of the game). One particular individual opted for the ridiculous notion that the linked videos of multi-minute fight with lots of mobs, action et al. might have been manipulated, basically calling them fabricated and misleading information (ref). character improvement [ˈkær.ɪk.tər ɪmˈpruːv.mənt], compound noun level up, re-grind equipment like legendary items (ref) and endure the frustrations of the lottery loot (ref loot mechanic) to then come to terms with a lack of end-game (ref) activities where said equipment (or even class skills, hello big battles (ref)) would be needed best supported by the convenience, not advantage, of the $tore CM, acronym Community Manager, a role description for a company representative responsible, among other things, for interaction and communication with the community Formerly held by a certain Mr. Heaton, AKA Sapience, who, for the great misfortune of game and community, appears to lack in certain social skills to do the designated job properly. He praises himself for giving blunt, honest answers (refs) and insists that it doesn't matter what you say but how you say it. What escapes him, though, is that this is a two-way street and ought to apply (doubly) for himself (again ref blunt, honest and answer). As can be constructed from above, he also has problems with the concept of respect, which is hard to earn, easily lost, and that, once lost, you can demand to be paid until you're blue in the face, at which point you're either getting ignored, or being poked fun at. This, then, appears to be the state he manouevered himself into. If you're wondering how he might have managed this feat, feel free to check out the authors personal highlights: what he had to say about messing with people's forum signatures and the impertinence with which he regarded forum complaints about the short login timer, after ignoring, for at least half a year, the glaring security hole that was their non-secured default forum/game login (including access to CC info, where appropriate). Funnily enough, after all the boo-hoo about not going to change a thing, this is him, later, burying the backpedal-post in a different thread. Then there's more along those lines, regarding the horrible new forum theme, where the advisable changes took such an astonishing amount of work that volunteers managed to make several much improved versions in mere hours and days after, investing a few hours, tops. No wonder they fall back to Twitter and that other site to broadcast essential information, seeing how they appear to have problems providing a decent, functional website for their own (and their customer's) needs. All of the examples above were from the aftermath of the overdue forum revamp in 2013. There are, of course, other remarks and incidents with other backgrounds, but they are simply too numerous to list here. cooperative game-play [kəʊˈɒp.ər.ə.tɪv ɡeɪm pleɪ], adjective + compound noun "grouping", short for "playing together in a group" (ie. more than one player, often at least three, but not to be confused with solo (ref)) to overcome some challenge and get rewards (ref) Something the silent majority (ref) of players has no interest in doing (ref fact and data) and which is, therefore, obsolete. On the landscape, fortunately for those players stating that LotRO isn't about grouping at all (ref fact), ~ has been made obsolete by inventing lottery loot (ref loot mechanic) so that by randomly whacking stuff others fight (for, say, a 1hp hit on a, say, 10M warband boss), the player in question gets the same rewards (ref) as said others. For group content (ref), it has been made obsolete and unnecessary by poor balancing (ref balancing issues) and the new levels of challenge (ref) whereby a group, should one even be necessary, can just DPS and be done with it. Why care for CC, aggro management, controlled DPS and positioning, anyway, when the skills for these features presumably had a major contribution to skill bloat (ref) and totally needed to go. Since, you know, player feedback suggested that full toolbars are just so very difficult to cope with (ref fact and data). data [ˈdeɪ.tə], noun mysterious, black-box-type collection of statistical and possibly other information pertaining to the game (servers) and/or its (their) operational parameters, presumably evaluated (ref data mining) to result in metrics and numbers that are then, void of any trace of their actual origin and applicability, presented as facts (ref) data mining [ˈdeɪ.tə ˈmaɪ.nɪŋ], compound verb process by which a large set of data (ref) is queried to deduce patterns and, ultimately, arrive at new information One often overlooked fact (in the rest-of-the-world meaning of the word) is that if the data (ref) isn't properly understood and/or the query is poor (the former facilitating the latter), the results are generally considered to be unusable and likely to answer everything but the intended question. At the same time, diagnosing the (in-)appropriateness of the query is a difficult and involved task. Now, given Turbine's track record (ref stat changes, meta-game, fix, performance problems and lag as well as loot mechanic), chances are that they have no idea how to formulate proper queries and end up with garbage information (ref fact and data). The constant use of blunt and honest answers by the CM (refs) in threads that touch on this topic is, if anything, reinforcing that impression. end-game [end ɡeɪm], compound noun content and activities for players to utilize and improve/hone the equipment/skills of their characters (ref character improvement) after those reached the level-cap for the foreseeable future (ref), this will be gimmicky grinds (ref meta-game) for solo (ref) players instead of meaningful, challenging group content and raids (refs) fact [fækt], noun a sequence of words (ref) claiming to be an assertion of something being true (or false), but without presenting the proof normally associated with such, and instead relying on a sufficient number of repetitions in answers by the CM (refs) and a rather static group of people claiming to speak for (ref ~) some silent majority (ref) to make it so often refers to data (ref) fabricated and misleading information [ˈfæb.rɪ.keɪted ænd ˌmɪsˈliː.dɪŋ ˌɪn.fəˈmeɪ.ʃən], verb + conjunction + adjective + noun label recently used by the CM (ref) for pieces of inofficial data or metrics pertaining to the state and/or development of the game as perceived by the vocal minority (ref) even when they cite their sources (eg. Turbine's own server login queue) or calculation methods and are easily cross-checkable against same (ref open and respectful discussion) fix [fɪks], noun a supposed improvement to issues (ref) with game mechanics or systems other than the $tore that more often than not fails to actually improve anything (ref balancing issues) or breaks completely unrelated other parts or systems of the game in the process (refer to Turbined), sometimes both at the same time in contrast to a hotfix (ref), a ~ will rarely arrive sooner than soon (ref) foreseeable future [fɔːˈsiː.ə.bl̩ ˈfjuː.tʃər], adjective + noun mostly used in negations, where it means: likely never (in the rest-of-the-world meaning of the word) (ref always and never) group content [ɡruːp kənˈtent], compound noun quests/instances that had originally been intended (and, prior to scaling them, used) for cooperative game-play (ref) in an environment designed to require the participation of and be challenging (ref challenge) for a group of players, but that can now be done solo (in the rest-of-the-world-meaning of the word) thanks to a complete lack of challenge due to balancing issues, stat changes (refs) with associated stat bloat as well as the introduction of trait trees (ref) honest [ˈɒn.ɪst], adjective vague, misleading, pretentious primarily in answers by the CM, often in conjunction with blunt (refs) hotfix [hɒtfɪks], noun correction for issues (ref) with the $tore or systems that get direct attention from the Turbine management (instead of just the customerspesky players) due to getting priority, these issues are addressed in record-time (as-in Turbine record-time which is roughly comparable to the time some other companies need to fix actual game issues) Hytbold [?], name of fictive city in Rohan interesting concept for giving players that prefer to solo comparable equipment to those that enjoyed grouping content. Implementation fell way short of its potential simply for being very poor (ref meta-game). A big part of it was a lack of built-in descriptions of all the hidden dependencies that basically called for a huge voluntary effort to document it for proper usage by Fredelas, and an excessive grind of daily repeatables for a straight 44 days to complete all of it. The latter actually penalized the target audience (which promptly managed to come up with some negativity of their own). On the other hand, the experiment has likely generated lots of data and resulted in interesting facts (refs) and should probably be regarded as a resounding success. internal QA [ɪnˈtɜː.nəl kjuːˈæ], adjective + acronym Quality Assurance and Testing group/department Rumour has it that this group is not actually empty, we just came to know that it consisted of at least one person who recently came from DDO and managed to get hopes up before the CM crashed the vocal minority party (of quite a few people) with blunt, honest answers containing lots of mentions of facts and data (refs), which instantly started a silent majority (ref) party (of quite a small number of people) with actual cheering about losing core facets of the game. Apart from said rumour, the long-standing, unfortunate impression is that this group simply doesn't do its job. issue [ˈɪʃ.uː], noun a reported or (rarely) confirmed problem or bug in game mechanics or systems that prevents affected parts of the game to function properly (ref WAI) or in a way that makes sense to those that actually play the game often said to be about to be addressed with some sort of fix soon (refs), unless it pertains to the $tore, in which case it will receive priority for the preparation and deployment of a hotfix (ref) sometimes reduced to non-issue, never declared a "dead horse" in answers by the CM (refs) legendary item [ˈledʒ.ən.dri ˈaɪ.təm], adjective + noun a type of extremely abundant item that drops from mobs of level 51 and higher; trash, junk, throw-away, rinse-repeat, dime-a-dozen Part of a convoluted and highly complex system (ref meta-game) that manages to frustrate players to no end and which Turbine "is happy with". Includes sub-systems, mechanics and items of its own: age, equip and item levels, points, tiers, ranks and meta-ranks (slotted crystals), relics and shards, identifiying, leveling, reforging, replacing, empowering, deconstructing, extracting and refining, xp-pills, different crystals and a host of various scrolls; not to mention the completely overloaded, cumbersome und un-intuitive UI elements (scrollbars, expandos, tabs, tiny icons, walls of text and tooltips with broken word-wrap, ...) to deal with all of it. loot mechanic [luːt məˈkæn.ɪk], compound noun system to generate and distribute "loot" (ref rewards) for overcoming mobs or mastering challenges (ref) The current incarnation AKA "lottery loot" is based on the combined abomination of open-tapping + remote (individual) looting mechanics for just about everything, starting with landscape mob kills to boss chests and all sorts of other rewards (ref). Turbine insists the RNG behind lottery loot works fine (which of course isn't actually the question/issue (ref answer)) in spite of reported indications of oddities and a previous incarnation of a Turbine-created (and long-ignored) issue with RNG-induced "randomness" of events, and refuses to further discuss the matter under threat of disciplinary action (ref blunt, honest, answer, fact and data as well as welcoming place and open and respectful discussion) meta-game [ˈmet.ə ɡeɪm], prefixed noun un-fun, grindy, brain-dead, meaningless, gimmicky, confusing, convoluted and/or half-finished and/or buggy and/or neglected and basically abandoned portions or systems of the game examples (in order of appearance): PvMP, reputation, housing, hobbies, legendary items, radiance, skirmishes, mounted combat, Hytbold, big battles and last not least points for trait trees (refs) mounted combat [ˈmaʊn.tɪd ˈkɒm.bæt], adjevtive + noun over-hyped and subsequently neglected gimmicky feature (ref meta-game) that leaves a lot to be desired. The problem in a nutshell is that mounted class skills/roles bear little to no resemblance to their classic counterparts (ref big battles), mounted class balance is not existing (compare mounted captain to mounted guard for laughs and giggles) and of course, performance problems and lag (ref) manage to make it an often frustrating experience. never [ˈnev.ər] adverb a void that will manifest itself as a period of indeterminate time when Turbine sees fit; antonym: always (ref) used to denote facts that will always (refs) be valid (also ref foreseeable future) (quote) "We will never sell gear with stats in the LOTRO Store." non-issue [nɒn-ˈɪʃ.uː], prefixed noun problem or bug with game mechanics or systems that Turbine deems irrelevant (ref WAI) open and respectful discussion [ˈəʊ.pən ænd rɪˈspekt.fəl dɪˈskʌʃ.ən], adjective + conjunction + adjective + noun Yeah, right (ref blunt, honest, answer, CM, silent majority, vocal minority and welcoming place). performance problems and lag [pəˈfɔː.məns ˈprɒb.ləms ænd læɡ], compound noun + conjunction + noun Hearsay, Somebody Else's Problem, Not Turbine's Fault, Must Be On Your End, Must Be Your Hard-/Software, Update Your Drivers, Deactivate Your Security Measures, Reinstall Your System; also: Works For Me, I NEVER Have Problems (bonus points by following up with no experience on a War-Steed, in Rohan or any of the graphically revamped regions), I Play This On Highest On A 5 Year Old Acer (ref answer, fact, data, welcoming place and open and respectful discussion) period [ˈpɪə.ri.əd], noun syntactical ('.') and, more imporantly, rhetorical element ('Period.') of answers (ref); synonyms for the latter: This Thread Has Outlived Its Usefulness, Closed, Dead Horse, Nothing To See Here, Move Along Never used in the always (refs) eloquent (ref blunt, honest) answers by the CM (refs), because he doesn't easily get annoyed. Often praised in its usage by the not-so-silent part of the silent minority (ref) as a tactful (ref blunt) response to members of the vocal minority when those keep bringing up issues the CM reduced to non-issues or declared WAI earlier (refs). Gladly used by the not-so-silent who appear to have been so blessed as to genuflect at the feet of their masterthe CM in his infraction proof crypt as a chance to ridicule the fabricated and misleading information that more trivial numbers of the vocal minority are likely to depart as a result of the open and respectful discussion at the welcoming place (refs) that is the official forum. powered by our fans [paʊərd baɪ aʊər fænz], adjective + preposition + possesive pronoun + noun Turbine's official motto It's an odd motto to have, considering that Turbine, the game company, appears to be powered by their fans in much the same way a gas turbine is powered by fuel: supply enough to continually burn it, produce lots of hot air in the process and use the output for something else. raid [reɪd], noun form of group content, formerly part of end-game (refs), recently declared to be everything that somehow involves grouping, done by some vocal minority (ref), not going to be improved upon in the foreseeable future (ref), a topic that supposedly received answers (ref) before and is therefore considered a (quote) "dead horse" reward [rɪˈwɔːd], noun spend effort + get nothing or be lucky + get everything, all thanks to the lottery loot (ref loot mechanic) silent majority [ˈsaɪ.lənt məˈdʒɒr.ə.ti], adjective + noun expression to convey the superiority complex of a part of the gaming/forum community that claims to be, well, in the majority (ref fact and data), if in doubt, posts containing lots of "I do", "I have", "I want", "I like", "I don't need", etc. are a good indicator to spot members The term as such is mostly found in posts that attempt to derail and ridicule threads critical of the current state or direction of the game, which would theoretically constitute an infraction-worthy violation of the CoC (ref welcoming place and open and respectful discussion), were it not for the practical enforcement regime of the CM (cue Yogi Berra quote and ref period). There is a not-so-silent part of the community, acting as self-proclaimed spokespersons (ref fact) of the ~ which, interestingly, happens to be a pretty static group that actively engages in the most open and respectful discussions, honest! (refs). Contrast this to the (recently closed) feedback thread (ref internal QA) with lots of irregular posters and their statements and remarks to get all the more reason of questioning facts and data (refs). skill bloat [skɪl bləʊt], compound noun tendentious expression hinting at the fact (ref) that there, somehow, had been too many skills, and that some of them supposedly did similar things (ref fact). Popular player demand rather wanted (ref fact) skills to be removed than to accept that easily confused players should organize what they got in a way that works for them. At the same time, popular player demand is said (ref fact) to request more levels and yet more skills, supposedly for a feeling (an illusion, if you managed to keep track of your stats) of progression. solo [ˈsəʊ.ləʊ], adjective With a companion or partner, in a duo. (quote) "The solo option allows two players to be in the instance together, but does not increase its difficulty when the second player joins." (Q5) soon [suːn], adverb term strongly favored by the CM, proudly presenting it as if it was his own cleverness that thought it up can mean anything from yesterday to foreseeable future (on a probability scale from never to always) (refs) often used when the CM is trying hard to not actually communicate, by releasing, in the vaguest possibly terms (ref honest), little tidbits about awaited fixes, content patches, or information pertaining to the state and direction of the game stat changes [stæt tʃeɪndʒɪs], compound noun, pl poorly thought-out, sometimes buggy or outright broken changes to what stats do and how their contributions are calculated and work (or fail to do same), showing poor understanding of existing game systems (ref balancing, trait trees) Examples include the math for crit bonuses for bosses (old BG), the fate debacle, a succession of incoherent mitigation changes, vitality contributions and others. Contributing factor also is the increasing stat bloat due to exponential-like development of item levels, apparent in vitality contribution of l95 gear and in the progression of the main stats for legendary items (ref). trait trees [treɪt triːs], compound noun, pl sweeping, poorly thought-out, badly implemented and half-finished changes (ref balance, challenge) to 7 year old class and game mechanics, leaving some in a broken state (aggro mechanics, minstrels, rk attunement, ...) with no final fix promised in the foreseeable future (ref) Official reasons for implementation being, amongst some others, less balancing issues and removal of skill bloat (refs) and popular player demand (ref facts and data) Concerns towards the likely effects of the introduction in early as well as later beta rounds were brushed aside by the CM (ref) and a group of other individuals representing (ref fact) some silent majority (ref), coining, in passing, the term vocal minority (ref) and stating You, Know, It's Beta And Nothing's Final, And Either Way, You Haven't Even Properly Tested And/Or Failed To Adapt To And Understand The Trees And Also, You Need To Embrace, Not Resist, Change And Once You Do, You'll See That They Aren't THAT Bad, After All (ref blunt, honest as well as open and respectful discussion). vocal minority [ˈvəʊ.kəl maɪˈnɒr.ɪ.ti], adjective + noun derogatory, dismissive term (ref welcoming place, open and respectful discussion) referring to a part of the gaming/forum community that expresses their concerns and highlights what they conceive as ongoing issues like lottery loot (ref loot mechanic), lack of end-game and challenge (refs), broken classes after stat changes (ref), class revamps and the introduction of trait trees, performance problems and lag (refs) and others When encountered in an answer (ref), likely to be accompanied by other dismissive terms like Constant Whining, Stop Playing If You Don't Like It, Why All The Negativity etc. pp. (ref welcoming place and open and respectful discussion) in attempts to derail, ridicule and brush away what the silent majority (ref) does not want to read about (interestingly, they could choose to just not read the threads in question, given they are so very bothered by them). WAI, acronym Working As Intended, Nothing To See Here, Move Along (ref non-issue) denotes player-reported problems or issues with parts of the game that Turbine deems irrelevant or has no intentions, or doesn't know how, to address (ref legendary item, loot mechanic and answer) welcoming place [ˈwel.kəm.ɪŋ pleɪs], adjective + noun Because nothing is quite as welcoming as a thinly veiled threat to follow some guidelines the CM (ref) himself interprets and enforces/ignores at will (visit the OF and note the big, screaming banner at the top, instructing you to comply, "or else"). words [wɜːds], noun, pl sequence of language units that carry neither meaning nor intent (ref answer) (quote) "I've always encourage people to read the words written and not to assign meaning or intent to them." -- edits fixed some minor errors, typos and formatting issues added more external links and more entries added (modified) contributions by Fredelas, fittybolger, sweet49 and Trilwych --- Phew! That took a lot longer to compile than I expected. Not sure the late game is worth so much dedication. SNy
  2. 12 points
    Howdy gang. Just thought I'd let you know something incredibly interesting - it IS possible to obtain refunds from Turbine, regardless of their "all sales are final" spiel. I just got my money back from them for the Isengard preorder. Long story. I was initially furious with Turbine for holding back on the announcement of the stat changes until after they'd allowed people to preorder, so I asked for my cash back, and they said no. I attempted to get my money back through Paypal, but seemed to have no luck, so I went back to Turbine. They said all sales are final, and besides, the Isengard product key was now permanently registered to my account and could not be removed. So I looked into it and got some interesting advice from Consumer Direct and emailed Turbine back with some juicy info. For a start, if proof of purchase can be produced (which it certainly can be, as receipts are generated via email), the Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that any imminent changes to the product or service must be declared, and if they are not a refund can be asked for and must be given, provided that refund is requested at any time up to 6 years after purchase. The only way out of it would be to make a like-for-like offer, although in the case of an online game that would entail providing me with my own exclusive version of the game sans stat changes. Totally unfeasible, so if I want a refund and am based in the UK I have them bang to rights - as they're offering the product/service to UK customers they have to abide by UK law. Gotcha number 1. That's not the only UK law they are in breach of. It seems that if there are imminent changes to a product or service that alter the product in a palpable way (like the stat changes), failure to declare them before you allow the transaction to take place - thus denying the customer the opportunity to make an informed decision - is in violation of the Misrepresentation Act 1967, which makes their conduct illegal in the UK. Their "game experience may change for any reason" nonsense in their EULA is irrelevant because they're breaking the law. Gotcha number 2. Also - and you are going to absolutely LOVE this - if you tell your customer one thing and then do the opposite regardless of your past statements to the contrary, you are also in violation of the Misrepresentation Act. Like, ooh, I dunno, say your cash shop will offer "convenience and not advantage" and then sell things that you freely admit are "advantages". Their back-pedalling over that "convenience and not advantage" statement is in violation of British law! Technically it's also fraud because you've misrepresented your product to get the customer to enter into a contract of service. Gotcha number 3. And that's not all! If Codemasters were not aware of Turbine's plans to go F2P while Codies were reassuring their customers that there were "no plans to go F2P", then Turbine are open for corporate legal action because they effectively caused Codemasters to involuntarily violate the same act. Turbine could face legal action from every single Codemasters' customer too, for forcing the company with which the customer had a contract of service to violate the law. Gotcha number 4. The sweetest part of it is that removing the statements that they made in the past on their forums is basically an admission of guilt, and effectively means that they were attempting to cover up illegal activity. What's hilarious is that if they still had Codemasters as their European partner, they could pretty much say whatever they liked and get away with it, as they were not handling the European service themselves. As soon as they started directly dealing with European customers, they had to start abiding by the relevant legislation. They walked straight into it and left themselves open to cop it in the neck for every violation of our more stringent consumer rights laws. Bwa ha ha ha. I pointed all of this out to Turbine, along with advising them that if they wish to offer their service directly to overseas territories they should have done a better job of familiarising themselves with the consumer rights legislation of those territories. Alternatively, if they are unable to do so, they should hand their overseas services to partners who can. I also pointed out that I would be writing a letter of complaint to their parent company Warner Brothers advising them of all of Turbine's transgressions under the leadership of the Paizes. I will also be informing Middle-earth Enterprises of their unlawful conduct and asking them to reappraise Turbine's status as a licensee. They have been known in the past to revoke licenses for less. Strangely, the very next day, my Paypal claim was reopened and my money was credited back to me. Funny, that. Weirdly, I still have my Isengard goodies and preorder registered to my account too. I will be watching that with interest, because if they suddenly vanish from my account, that means when they originally refused my refund under the grounds that the product key was permanently fixed and could not be removed, they were telling me enormous lies in order to wriggle out of giving me my money back. And that's a whole new can of worms... Turbine really should learn that they should not mess with European customers. We are clearly not the pushovers they are used to. If they have to learn the hard way, then that's fine by me. And I'm still going to write those letters to Warner Brothers and Middle-earth Enterprises.
  3. 11 points
    I agree with this on a personal level. First post here although I consider this forum superior to the official one (where most of my posts over the years were confined to grants on rank x threads). Just wanted to try to give some personal observations about the Moors from behind the curtain. I was LOTRO Systems QA from Book 14 SoA until shortly before F2P went live, returning for a few months after RoI launched (before departing a second time after experiencing the 'new' Turbine in Needham under WB rule...I'd seen enough). For most of that time I was the QA guy responsible for PvMP and in fact for about two years Jen Gordy (Jalessa) and I could be said to have constituted the PvMP 'team'. And neither of us, particularly Jen, could devote our sole attention to PvMP. Jen became Systems Lead and I had other Systems (combat, classes, IA, etc) that I had to look at. After the debacle (PvMP-wise) of Book 6 MoM and the post-MoM layoffs (with the attendant hiring freeze), it became pretty clear we were not going to be able to do anything ambitious in the Moors. Firstly, sheer lack of bandwidth: not enough bodies, not enough engineering time, and a lack of interest from the producers. Secondly, Book 6 suggested that trying to force in changes was at least as likely to hurt as help. The PvMP system, just by dint of how it was built (a whole story in itself), defied 'fixing'...however one wanted to define that and everyone who played including me had different ideas. We're talking about a system where one side are literally playable NPCs (remember how CJs could stun charging Reavers? Sadly unavoidable at the time: they had to conform to the same rules as NPCs in pve... disassociating Creeps from those tables and mechanics was a huge change when it did happen). Our consensus basically became: hold the course. Most of what we implemented was 'quality of life' stuff...things like trying to tamp down the CC (which was absurd in SoA, something often forgotten in nostalgia). Mostly it was an arms race: the class devs weren't required to consider the effects of their changes vis-à-vis PvMP (and might still be checking in changes at the 11th hour) so each update was kind of a gamble when it came to tweaking Creeps. Buff too much and it's a GV camp 24-7 (ala earlier this year), too little and it's Book 6 again. Even if we managed to get a timely picture of freep changes (rare), testing was problematic. As said, I was the only QA guy assigned to PvMP or who even had ranked toons on Live. If I was lucky I might get 10 or 12 people for testing for a few hours on a Friday afternoon. Beta was not very helpful as a rule either. I found that most of the people who showed up for events were at best casuals. But consider that even on Live it usually took a few weeks for us as players to really determine which way the pendulum had swung. I did the best I could under the circumstances and as a rule played whichever side came off worse as my private mea culpa if it went bad. I missed some doozies (the 1-shot killing BA firedot and the keep flip flag exploit were about the worst). PvMPers were passionate-I certainly was, I threatened to quit the first time (SoM) KBs were going to be granted to everyone in the group!-and that passion did give the PvMP community a much louder voice than its numbers would suggest. At its height, the Moors saw maybe 7% participation...as for those of us who were diehards, we're talking just a few percent of the LOTRO population. It was hard for me to accept the SQL metrics (I lived and breathed the place on and off the clock) but it was what it was. So it was hard to justify diverting scarce resources into a part of the game a very few players frequented and that seemed to the prods and others-based on the forums in the words of pvmpers themselves-to be a hopelessly 'broken' fiasco. So (and this post is too long already) my stance was: the zone is by no means perfect and never will be. But it's unique and home to a unique group of people. If we can't really do the Moors the justice the players deserve, then at least let's try to preserve what we have. That strategy held until after F2P and totally went out the window when Zombie Columbus and Jwbarry all people got assigned to the Moors for RoR. That update, completely asinine, brain-dead, killed what was left of the old magic. I limped along as a player to see the 7 year mark and then said farewell to LOTRO. I still miss it but focus on remembering the good times and good people I experienced thanks to Middle Earth.
  4. 10 points
    It's the day we've all been waiting for, Friday of Countdown Week! The very last day of the countdown to the departure of Rick "Sapience" Heaton, leaving his post as LOTRO Community Manager after 6 long years. Today's Countdown features a character that no matter how long you play it, never gets to advance beyond level One, the Session Play Chicken! Yes, level One is the only level this character will ever see, and they never get a chance to experience the hard choices that other characters do, namely "what do I choose as my specialization in the fabulous Trait Tree system that everyone is raving(*) about?" Instead, chickens are granted only a small, but useful, set of skills(**): Fowl Fleetness: Delete or close threads with +50% speed Bob and Weave: Respond to community questions with vague answers. +50% Evade Chance when asked for clarification +25% additional evasion against posts that provide evidence that your previous answers are dubious at best. Possum Impersonation: Spammers running rampant in threads throughout a long holiday weekend? Power outage that takes down the servers? You cannot be arsed to act (playing dead). Duration as long as needed till the crisis is over. Paranoia: "You're not sure what, but something isn't right". Ban them! Ban them ALL!!!! Sapience, in honor of this milestone in a long and storied career (***), we here at Countdown Week have chosen this lovely parting gift as a remembrance of your service to the community: Congratulations. You earned it. Because you've proven time and again that when it comes to quality community management, you just don't give a cluck. Buh-bye! (*) Chickens can only communicate on the /chicken channel, and no one else but chickens can join this chat. So if you're wondering who all the people are who are raving about the Trait Tree, it's probably the Silent Majority of chickens. They're out there, you just can't hear them. And if you can't hear them, that means they're all happy! (**) Descriptions modified to suit the occasion (***) Want stories? This forum is FULL of stories about Sapience! Check it out!
  5. 10 points
    Some members on the Player Council can, yes. Take the Skill/Trait trees in Helm's Derp beta for example. Many of the ones trumpeting everything about them were on the Player Council and were brow-beating those who were offering suggestions to make things better or get rid of them entirely. At that time it felt more like they were "blocking" for and defending devs while the devs were just tossing things at a wall to see if they stuck. Sapience was allowing their nonsense while silencing others. It really was a clusterfuck and still makes me mad to this day.
  6. 10 points
    I'm not sure you understand how this works. The old FAQ never existed. When Sapience says that the instances are part of the expansion, we should accept his statements as the infallible word of Mod. If we get something other than what we're expecting, it's because Mod works in mysterious ways, it is not up to us mere mortals to interpret the word of Mod. Of course there will be heretics who bring along their "proof" that Mod was wrong, such as Google cache pages or unpurged forum posts, but these are just fabricated pieces of evidence put there by the naysayers to test our faith in Mod. I know it's hard, but we need to stay strong in these trying times. With naysayers lurking in every thread trying to test our faith with things like "facts", and with false Mods trying to draw us into heretical games such as GW2, we need to stick with the One True Mod now more than ever.
  7. 9 points
    Fascinating. I thought it was rather clear people disagreed with his disrespect of others. You perhaps need to consider something from an outsider's perspective: not many of us will give a hoot whether or not he can troll on the PC forums or if anybody did in the past year because we were never there. People being allowed access to the PC, being given privileged information, and then allowed to go after others on the beta or official forums is the issue. I see TheCrossbows inclusion on the Council as a tacit acknowledgment by Sapience that Crossbow's brand of incendiary posting is accepted by him and Turbine's Customer Service.
  8. 8 points
  9. 8 points
    I generally just pop by here to see what's going on (aka, lurking with nothing to add), but I wouldn't feel too bad about complaining, or having lingering negativity toward Turbine. I found this site because I couldn't believe I was the only one questioning the tone of the official forums. I have a lifetime subscription - I don't remember when I first started playing LOTRO - before Moria, anyway. I have 5 classes maxed. (well, I did - I'd quit before the Dol Amroth part.) I didn't visit the official forums often - generally, I'd go if I had a question, then get sucked in to the weirdness occasionally. Within a few posts, I'd learned there were Heydts in the world, & you could count on them to correct you, no matter what you said. (It was about the time they ran a long debate about Nona's possible pregnancy that I gave up & vowed to avoid the place forever after. Probably because I suspected they're right, & the future of Middle Earth, as envisioned by Turbine, includes the Hellspawn of Horn & Nona.) I thought maybe I was the only one who noticed that Sapience was stunningly snarky & rude, so this site is great, just so I feel sane again. I tried the newest update - I got to the part where I'm told to carry nails, & decided that's it. I'm sure there's some good stuff left (...sure, as in 'maybe.') But I'd lost all the old enthusiasm. (that, & I'm on Elendilmir, my old kin is long gone, & I'm the only one in my family to still visit on occasion.) I forgot the Dwarf Heads in Dol Amroth. I saw some developer insist they're Numenoreans. Well, how stupid do they think we are? They're Moria Dwarves with slight nose jobs! The last thing they did well, imo, was world building, design. Dol Amroth just seemed lazy to me. (After the 'Nail Quest,' I rode down to see it - then logged off for the last time.) A lot got to me, by the end. I've always loathed the store, but I understand why games need that income. I don't really object to the concept of micro-transactions, but having to buy stuff like legacy tier ups, that felt wrong. (You can find them in world drops! In all those characters, I never did - but... they're there! For sure!) Turbine's methods drive me crazy - start something, then drop it. From raids & pvp, to housing, skirmishes, and mounted combat. (I could have loved that - then I tried it on my guardian...) Now it's Epic Battles - I see no good in them at all. They feel lazy, and as un-epic as it gets. (oh, & the trait revamp - for me, that ruined a lot, especially my champion - one of the 3 I played most.) And the weird semantics - raiding now includes 3 mans? I didn't raid, but we instanced a lot. Without that, I'm not sure what's left. We tried the Epic Battles, and at that point, the 2 remaining friends I played with, finally quit, in disgust & fury. And I really hated the way Turbine removed posts, *even their own,* and pretended they'd never said something. They did this so often, it became ridiculous. I wondered if others noticed - it's nice to find out they did. By the end, I'd come to despise the epic story, too. They took one of the best parts of the book, for me, and made it just - awful. (Eomer looks like Zap Rowsdower, if anyone knows MST3K - that pains me, & Eowyn has become a whiny teen. I came to loathe the 'noble savage' Dunlendings, while the Rohirrim startled at whistles & feared salamanders. See, I'm getting testy even as I remember it.) One of the final 'UGH!' moments for me was that 'special class moment' which I waited for with great hope. In this case, it was the Captain at Helm's Deep. I don't know if anyone here has done it, but - wow. I went into fits of laughter. (Aragorn has gone Monty Python - that's all I can say in case horrible spoilers matter at this point.) They took something potentially amazing & made it - well, good comedy, anyway! I'm pretty sure that wasn't their intention - I think they just don't care at all, & have totally lost the spirit that makes Tolkien great. But a laugh is never wasted, I guess. So - yes, there is negative stuff on this forum. But personally, I needed that, without the threat of being Heydted. (whoever came up with 'Heydt-jacked' on this forum somewhere, thank you!) I haven't logged in for weeks - I probably won't play again. I can find the too-often pathetic cheerleading on the official forums, should I ever go back. (less & less likely) But it's oddly helpful to see that I'm not alone in disappointment, & yes, anger at Turbine for what it did to Middle Earth. I hate giving up this game - but I don't think there's one thing I said here that *wouldn't* get me banned on the official forum. I've never been 'warned' or anything, but only because I knew full well that I'd be deleted. (I didn't think about being banned - I thought that was for *real* offenses, like suggesting a pregnant Nona is a good idea...) And I still check out what they're doing, because it meant a lot to me once. It's nice to visit a place where a few others seem to have gone through the same thing.
  10. 8 points
    A lot of unsavory and dishonest scumbags are "likeable in person". That's how they get people to trust them, and get into positions of authority. Frodo: "I think [one of the enemy's servants] would - well, seem fairer and feel fouler, if you understand." A lying, hypocritical bully with a smile on his face is still a lying, hypocritical bully.
  11. 7 points
    Wow...three Executive Producers in one year...must be a new record. "We're working on a new PvMP zone for Mines of Moria!" - Jeffrey Steefel "We're working on a new PvMP zone for Riders of Rohan!" - Kate Paiz "The team is also seriously investigating a new PvMP map in Osgiliath." - Athena “Vyvyanne” Peters
  12. 7 points
    WoW's players were too busy running new dungeons, new raids, and PvPing to notice a poll on an obscure site...
  13. 7 points
    Ugh, this is getting stupid. 1. I think some of you are choosing to assume the worst about all of Bucko's posts because some of them come off the wrong way. I didn't see any difference in his c-word post from others on that topic. But it's been decided that you aren't going to like anything he says, and we all know that, so do we really need to derail every single thread with this silly bickering? 2. Some of you are clear that you're going to use words that make some of us uncomfortable no matter what anyone says, fine. We asked nicely, you don't wish to respect the request, that's your right. We're just a bunch of random strangers posting on an internet forum and nobody owes anybody anything. I don't at all get the extreme arguments that we're somehow classist or anti whatever country or pro book-burning because of a request to lay off of one specific word. This has nothing at all to do with profanity in general, and it isn't even about words being 'sexist'. The only thing I'd add to Loth's earlier eloquent explanation (for anyone who cares) is this: when women are the victims of physical or sexual violence, the perpetrators use words like 'bitch,' 'cunt,' 'whore,' etc. to dehumanize the target of their aggression and deflect blame for the attack away from themselves and onto the victim, implying that if only she weren't such a *whatever*, he wouldn't need to be bashing her head in. For people who have survived such violence or who know others who have, words like that can be uncomfortable triggers, or even painful ones. Does that mean that men need to censor themselves and walk on eggshells every time a female might be listening in (since I know that's the next question that will be asked)? Of course not. It's my responsibility to tell you what makes me uncomfortable, not for you to guess. But in my universe, it's considered common courtesy that most people are willing to extend to one another when someone makes a polite request to please consider that x makes me uncomfortable. I don't say 'fuck' around my parents, for example, because it makes them crazy. Not because it's a rule or a demand, or even because I agree with their perspective on that word, but because I respect them and don't want to make things uncomfortable for them. I don't consider it odd or unreasonable to be mindful of others in that way. But whatever. It's your forum.
  14. 7 points
    Regarding our reputation, my only real concern is that I'd prefer that we not get too nasty towards newcomers and people who still enjoy LOTRO, because we should want fresh faces and new perspectives even when they could use a little smoothing of rough edges. Beyond that, do I care that some OF lurker here might see a thread derail (the horror!) or some political comment that isn't any different from the goofy comments you see on US news sites? Not one bit. Our reputation is enhanced by our tolerance of a diversity of opinions and ability to handle differences through intelligent conversation. Do we really want people here who would use one or two comments, without taking the responsibility of engaging in further inquiry or dialogue, as a reason not to use this site? I like it when threads wander the same way that face-to-face conversations do, and I don't want to see threads moderated solely for that reason. I would prefer moderation being limited to more serious violations like personal attacks, extreme vulgarity, spam, etc. If someone posts provocative political statements (which people do all the time on every internet forum), either roll your eyes and ignore it or provide an intelligent response and move on. I thought we were supposed to have thick skins here.
  15. 7 points
    Hello all, First off I wont be posting here much, not because I dont like the site, in fact I love it, but I am now in full lotro purging mode, going cold turkey. Just popped in to say sorry if anything I have posted over on the OF has caused anyone any problems here, keep up the good fight, its good to see people still saying the things that need to be said about the game, shame its ignored where it is needed most. I wont be expending anything further on that game now (damn thats hard to believe but thats the goal now) turbine/WB dont deserve the rights to that IP they have took the profs work and legacy and happily pissed all over it. Sickens me to see some so called Tolkien fans fawn over people who are sullying the very work they claim to adore. Anyway rant off, best wishes to you all.
  16. 7 points
    Challenge accepted. Disclaimer: fictional content for satire only. Meant in good fun and not to disparage. Forum names slightly obscured to protect from google. <posted by: M.Eva-something> THANKYOU Turbine for listening to your playerbase!!1 We said we wanted to move into Gondor and you listened. This is the biggest free update we have yet received, what's with all the whining in other threads. Clearly some here are feeling so entitled and special that they demand fun to be spoon-fed to them by the devs - how lazy can you get when you log into a game expecting it to entertain you. Don't you realize you have to put your own effort into it and work to create your own fun, yes it takes real effort and real work just like in real life and nothing is ever free. Except this update, which is completely free. You are being given an update which is completely free and yet you complain!1! Lotro once had a great community, now it has a self-centered spoiled population that can't appreciate all the hard work the devs are giving you! Free! <posted by: mrs H> Hmm, those stone heads aren't bad. You have to remember that in Middle-Earth equivalent of the Middle Ages, Gondor roughly corresponds to the area occupied by modern day France, and it was not unheard of to see ruins of Roman monuments scattered around the medieval landscape. Good job, world builders. Those swan wings on the towers are a lot like the Roman regalia of the imperial eagle (Aquila), any complaints about this shows you simply don't know your history. Lots of accurate attention to detail here, I've always taken my characters through Annuminas once the mobs turn gray and now I can do it again and again with Dol Amroth. Wait, who said there is group questing there? Are you forcing me to group with random strangers who will disrupt my quest flow and break my immersion? I really don't like this area, change it. <posted by: N.hobbit> I love it and everything about it, it looks so middle earth and the ships are so blue and - omg really? I get my own pet swan that swims on water and I can swim while it swims! How awesome is that! <posted by: fuckingmuck> The developers have done an excellent job considering how rushed and swamped their schedule is. The city looks and feels realistic, much better than the empty bland Annuminas. Those heads and wings really spice things up, I love it. All of you who complain have to remember that this is only beta. Everything is subject to change and we are here to give feedback, not criticism. Developers have worked hard on this and deserve much better than those harsh comments. Let's show them how much we appreciate their efforts by wording our posts more positively. <posted by: A.C.> Due to overwhelmingly positive player feedback, we are pushing the release of U14 back a few weeks so everyone can have more time to enjoy the free preview of our free update on Bullroarer. <Sapience locks thread as there are no other threads left to moderate>
  17. 7 points
    Heh, so he picked people "able to be civil" where "civil" means "agrees entirely with Turbine" and naysayers are plain uncivilized?
  18. 7 points
    There's some great people at Turbine and they built something special (imho) and I'm sorry to hear it's apparently not going well. But: Some of them are now going to feel what my team went through when they played hardball with the European service contract and the F2P handover, I don't recall anyone in Turbine giving my guys and girls any sympathy or understanding when they lost their jobs. Not. One. Single, Word... Business is war apparently, well guess what? You're fighting with yesterday's weapons and that traditionally doesn't go well... (edited for grammar)
  19. 7 points
    The move of services, which has just begun, is a huge caesura for all the European community. Some liked Codemasters service, some didn't. But we've known it for the last four years and knew what to expect. Now there's a new age of Turbine awaiting us. I've never played in the US, never used the forums. I did hear a lot of things in recent days, some which made me quite uneasy. But of course, the unknown, and change to what one was accustomed to, is always scary. But by now, until I get to experience things firsthand, I'm rather tired of all the doom (founded or not?) I've read in the latest few dozen threads on CM forums and here. So (for a change) here it is: Welcome Turbine! I am curious for what's awaiting me, my kin and friends. And sincerely hope that you will have an open ear for the European addition to your community. Showing respect to our customs, enough to consider the things we may bring up. A lot (at least for me) will depend on if you listen to us and work with us, or if you'll just send out prefabricated, while honeyed, responses of "this is how it was and is, deal with it and don't bother us about it". I still feel a huge sadness having to wave good bye to Codemasters. I spent a lot of time on their forums, greatly enjoyed to be part and tried supporting the community. But I do keep an open mind and am positive for what's to come. And I hope others will try as well, without "taken over by the yanks" or other stereotypes getting in the way. Nothing will be won by either "side" with digging trenches. Please, Turbine, do the same. It, will take work from all sides, and may well make the difference of winning a community, improving the whole of LotrO, or just taking one over. A lot of great input, community spirit and dedication would be lost if you plan to just do the latter.
  20. 6 points
    Jesus, someone's sarcasm detector is broken. And gotta say, regarding your regular name calling, I don't think you've a leg to stand on whilst commenting on any behaviour/things said that you find unsavoury.
  21. 6 points
    Since Tolkien uses a lot of religious elements and symbols in his books, is it possible fanbois are reacting to his works as a belief-system, however subconsciously? This might explain the severe 'devoutness' of some of these fanbois in the game. As a formerly religious person, I keep noticing a familiar pattern in the censored forums among LOTRO fanbois versus those who 'dare to question'. Many of the die-hard fans have an extremely emotional response to even the implication that their game is less than perfect. Some seem zealots to the point of absolute blindness when it comes to critically weighing the pros and cons of the game. It's rather common for them to demonize skeptics of the game in very negative terms. Some of their comments remind me so much of how my in-laws responded when my husband and I left our church, it's a little disconcerting. As a matter of fact, one could substitute the words "religion and god" for "game and Turbine" in most of their posts. Of course, perhaps all fanbois are this blindly loyal and I'm totally wrong.
  22. 6 points
    It's not that Sapience was incorrect that bothered me. Everybody makes mistakes. He had been probably been playing on Bullroarer and reading Helm's Deep patch notes for a couple months, and it's easy to forget what already went into the game and when. Fair enough. I'm often wrong myself. There were 14 errors players helped me find and fix in my Hytbold guide, for example. (It was so complicated, I actually still have all the diffs here on my computer.) Multiply that by the 1.2 million views it got, and I could have led a lot of players astray. It's the way he said it. Say those words out loud, and you'll see that it's impossible to say them in anything other than a smug, condescending tone. It's that I-know-something-you-don't-know attitude that got me. And to top it off, Sapience is always fond of saying, "It's often not what you say, but how you say it that matters." This all came after several months of Sapience taunting, scolding, and even threatening some beta testers. There were some beta testers who I feel crossed the line, but he seemed to express thinly veiled superiority, rather than sympathy, in shutting down everyone's opinions, even when testers were being sincerely constructive. I think Turbine was just too rushed to deliver Helm's Deep on time after RoR's six-week delay. These discussions were probably becoming a distraction to developers whose bosses were pushing them onward with no time to consider and adjust to feedback from testers. This situation was understandable, but it was handled by the community team in a way that only made things worse. It's like Sapience was poking at a bunch of caged animals with a stick, while tossing some meat to a few of them, all from the relative safety of being outside the bars. It really divided the community against itself and made beta testing Helm's Deep an unpleasant and unproductive process. I guess my hobbit-rage finally boiled over. I'm pretty sure that's the post that got me permanently banned. I don't hold a grudge, though. As far as parting words go, I'm not ashamed of mine.
  23. 6 points
    I couldn't stand it any longer: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?550043-SHIELD-Dwarf-Runs-through-Moria-Q-amp-A-Notes-on-What-Was-Said&p=7190278#post7190278 Originally Posted by frickinmuck Just wanted to remind everyone of the community guidelines, and of the real purpose of this thread. Perhaps this is an issue best tabled for now, or moved elsewhere. "Don't you find it difficult to breathe, what with your head so far up Turbine's ####?"
  24. 6 points
    "100% of the population takes part in leveling content, so that must be the only thing players enjoy. So that's all we'll give to them! They'll be so happy and grateful they don't have to deal with nasty stresses like the raids and those icky 3 man instances." Turbine logic.
  25. 6 points
    “A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle.” The Official Page Suilad! Hello! Bonjour and Guten Tag! Gûr Edhellen, hereby known as 'this guide', was written with the intent to help those interested in roleplaying, and learning about, an Elf of Tolkien’s literature. The mysterious beings, that inhabited the majority of his wonderful world. For many long years, the good Professor brewed his world in a cauldron of thought. Finally, he perfected the world of Middle-earth and all within – but sadly, much was left unfinished; for his mortal coil unwound. But we can best remember him through his works, and thank him for countless hours of entertainment and fantasy. It is in honour of his works, that I create this. While this Guide does not claim to be an official product or affiliate of J.R.R. Tolkien, Codemasters or Turbine Inc. it is a simple Player-made contribution to the RP Community. To all those of [EN-RP] Laurelin, [FR-RP] Estel and [DE-RP] Belegaer, I offer you my works and research to learn more about this fine race. Even to you who do not live on a Roleplay server, this guide can be of use to you in many ways! Please note that until this site updates to a more efficient HTML/WYSIWYG editor, I shall not be posting the direct text - as it is quite heavily dependant on HTML Coding - and copying RTF never works for me. Please refer to the above link! A Personal Note This guide is also in honour of four wonderful years, as part of the LotRO (especially, the Laurelin) community. Much of your own comments and ideas are present in it, and I daresay it would still be a simple post on a forum - rather than the guide it is, today. With kindest regards, Andarne


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