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Hammerfast last won the day on November 12 2011

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  1. Well, that's a really cute little fiction story, and is highly entertaining, but do you actually have one shred of proof amid all that paraphrasing, guesswork and assumption? Like the part about the bribes with the BBB. This is the kind of crap that makes an otherwise legit website look like somebody's pouting ground. I like a little evidence to go with the charges. If I am going to hate somebody, I want the reason to be better than "Joe Blow said....." Remember the old saying "Screenshots or it didn't happen." Well, that applies here. Let's see (and hear) the taped conversations and watch the recorded exchange of things you only assume happened without even the barest shred of proof. No, this isn't in defense of Turbine. I don't care who the charges are against. I don't think it is fair to concoct fiction stories about events you didn't witness and pass them off to others as "I think I see what happened here." I think I will just avoid this place in the future. Do what you want with my account. I may not get along sweetly with Turbine and they may decide to kick my fanny out of there one of these days, but I'd rather be homeless than be associated with a group of immature whiners who bring on their own troubles and then blame the rest of the world for those troubles and make fiction stories about them that makes everyone else guilty. This isn't a community for Lotro fans. This is a community for Turbine haters. I've got better things to do with my time.
  2. Okay, those are some very convincing arguments and I can't refute them. And the only thing that makes me want to reject it is the handful of people I know there. But none of them are in any position to resist what their company decides to do. They may not like it but in the end, they just work there. I've always had a lot of faith in Turbine because they had some good souls in that company. Still do, in fact. But they seem especially hell-bent on destroying the faith customers had in them. I know they've already shattered mine. It doesn't take a revelation like this - their own actions did it. Thanks for taking the time to explain your thoughts, Darmokk. And like I said, I had already changed my mind about the one part of your post I was concerned about. Your list and the list above yours are some things Turbine and Warner would do well to think about. I don't think they fully realize the power a million determined adults can pull together when they need it. They don't want to find out. But if they don't change the way this game is being managed soon, they just might.
  3. Okay Darmokk, I've changed my mind It's not over the top, but it still does one little bad thing. We don't know Turbine's intent and we shouldn't be trying to suggest intend that we don't know for sure about. That's a pretty minor infraction, so this is a warning only. LOL. Just kidding pal. I like to communicate with a couple of the big fanbois over there. Most people declare them as such, but I know them better than that. They are just well informed because they have connections inside the company. I don't think selling Turbine was a choice. He didn't say that precisely. Instead he said a lot of little things that allowed me to read the fine print between the lines. And I will be honest, I don't know if I read correctly or not, and he can't say it outright without betraying his own ethics. Do you recall a couple of instances of turbine acquiring funding in the amount of 40 million dollars? Yeah, it happened twice that I know of. It doesn't matter who you are, that's a chunk of money, and you are going to want it back. 80 million total, and didn't both of those come from the direction of Time/Warner? Anyway, it all worked out to not being much of a choice. Warner supported them when they needed it and then when the return was proving to be too small, they ACQUIRED Turbine. That's a nice way of putting it. Don't quote me, please. If I had something more solid than that, I'd say so. MMO development is an expensive venture these days. Players are jerks. We DEMAND more and more because the technology is right there in front of our noses. And the developers have to spend more and more to satisfy us. We want voice acting. Well, Star Wars has spent 300 million dollars + on voice acting alone. A hundred million on the development of the game. WE are pushing companies so far into debt they can't even see the other end of the tunnel. That's not really our fault and I don't blame myself for a natural impulse to want a better game. But to my mind, MMO development is one of the most dangerous ventures on the planet. I think Turbine found that out the hard way. No evidence to back up the claim, but it sure looks that way. We don't know why turbine sold. They were rather proud of the fact that they were an independent company of gamers making games. I don't think they just gave that up willingly. And if that's the case, the rest of the story is pretty clear. These are not Turbine's decisions. They come down from higher up. Argh. I've got dinner sitting in front of me, so I am gonna have to finish this later guys. BB in awhile.
  4. I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna call it fair when somebody does it back I liked everything about your list in the "Turning over a new leaf" thread, but you had ONE SINGLE PARAGRAPH that I thought went over the top. I will go to that thread and quote it for you. Who knows? Maybe my opinion of it has already changed.... See ya there.
  5. Hehehe. YOu have no idea how long I fretted over that decision. I was making darn good money at the time, but hey, 300 bucks is 300 bucks. And it was only five character slots. I ALREADY knew I would need at least ten. So I KNEW it was going to be 600 bucks. I weighed it for nearly a month before I finally took the leap - with both feet and two Founder accounts. But it seems that founders aren't valued much anymore. I kinda don't blame anyone for that - you can't expect them to just keep giving and giving. Lately, it seems they are finding ways to negate the Lifetime subscribers benefits. The fanbois keep repeating (over on the official forums) that you don't HAVE to use the LOTRO Store. But I am a level 65 with the potential of advancing to level 75. I like skirmishes, but it is sorta necessary for my skirmish soldier to advance with me. Turbine doesn't agree. They feel I should pay for my skirmish soldier to advance. That's similar to saying "you can play up to level 75 but you cannot wear any armor above level 65 and cannot carry a weapon above level 65." You know, to this day I don't regret that purchase, and if Turbine went belly-up tomorrow I still wouldn't regret it. I got five good years out of those accounts and I've actually been very happy that I am not one of those who has to pay a monthly fee to have a VIP status. If I did, I think I would have dropped LOTRO a couple of years ago when they stopped doing regular updates. Thanks for those words, Dal. Those were some very kind words
  6. Well, I'm not suggesting we play by Turbine's rules. Did you really get that from my post? I am advocating the application of tact and clarity instead of temper tantrums. I want the same thing you want, but I KNOW we can't achieve it with a bunch or fiery, inflammatory posts that are bloated way out of proportion. Have you ever been on the phone and ranted and raved at customer support (any company, not just turbine)? Swearing and calling people names and threatening them with lawsuits and <click> What's this? They HUNG UP ON ME?!?!?! Yeah that got me a long ways didn't it. It told them I was unhappy. Big deal. Even a chimpanzee could see that much. I learned that if I was sad and quiet and patient, the customer support would do almost anything for me. Rational complaints are usually heard. Irrational venting is mostly just ignored.
  7. So who doesn't? I'm not talking about their game. For the most part their game is still pretty decent. And they've added things to it that I personally really enjoy. I love the LI system, the skirmish system and the relic system. In terms of the game itself, it's still one of the better games out there. But I definitely have a problem with somebody calling Dunland three new zones. I know they couldn't possibly be talking about that dinky Gap of Rohan or the tiny vale of Nan Curanir. We don't call dinky areas in lotro "zones." A zone is Breeland. The Shire. The North Downs. Eregion. No one calls Dol Dinen a 'Zone.' No one calls the Midgewater Marshes a 'Zone." So why are they calling the Gap of Rohan a zone? Because they think so very little of us as customers that we wouldn't know the difference between a spot on the map and an entire zone. I don't know about you, but I don't like being lied to. And I certainly don't like being treated as if I am too stupid to figure out when I am being cheated and lied to. This has almost nothing to do with the game. It has everything to do with how Turbine is treating their customers and the lack of honesty and integrity in dealing with customers. Gouging customers with huge prices for VIRTUAL services that can literally go for almost any price and still be profitable. RoI is a little bit more than a quest pack. 900 TP for the quest pack and 450 TP for the rest. That's what it is worth. 3200 TP? No way. And you'll never convince me that they can make more money selling it for 32 dollars than they can by selling it for ten dollars. When it is that cheap, people start pulling out the stops and grab before somebody changes their mind! They would have made a lot more money by just being honest: "Sorry folks, this one doesn't qualify as an expansion, so we are selling it as a quest pack and a half! Get it while it's hot!" Instead of selling a hundred thousand of them they would have sold a million of them. Instead of three million dollars it would have made ten million dollars. And they wouldn't be in this position of having to take desperate measures to suppress the expression of customer dissatisfaction on a grand scale. What people call a horrible deal at thirty bucks they often call a bargain at ten bucks. Instead of unhappy, cheated customers they'd be listening to tens of thousands of people congratulating them on a job well done for a very nice price.
  8. I honestly don't think things over there are quite as bright and cheery as you seem to think. I don't know, and don't have any way of knowing, but things add up, you know? I think a large part of the customers who just keep on playing aren't paying anything in the first place. I still play once in awhile, but I have a lifetime account. I haven't bought any Turbine Points in quite a while and refuse to spend money on another mini expansion. As far as Turbine is concerned, I'm not a real customer because I'm not spending my money for them. A lot of those players that keep coming back to play more are not paying to play. And that's hurting Turbine a lot more than somebody who just leaves. Those of us who play and don't pay are costing Turbine money. We haven't just quietly left. We actually cost them money. And there should be a pretty clear message out there by now: cheat us and we have no mercy at all for your company. No trust. No loyalty. As I stated in other posts, either here or over there, I don't want to drive Turbine out of business. I would like nothing more than to see LOTRO rise above all of this and turn into the game it has the potential to be. What I want from Turbine is for them to deal honestly with their customers. Stop lying about the products they are selling. Stop calling miniature content "expansions" and selling them for 40 to 60 dollars. If its nothing more than a new zone and new quest pack, then sell it as such instead of trying to pawn it off as a full expansion. They got in trouble for that over the Mirkwood expansion. You'd think they would have learned something there. Everything they say makes it sound all rosy and fine. Surely you know that they HAVE to do that? Surely you know that the minute Turbine comes out and says "well folks, we screwed up and you've all driven us to the very edge of our grave" there's going to be a major exodus from that game. No one in their right mind would do that. So yeah, they make it sound like everything is fine and profits are up and the player base couldn't get any bigger and so forth. But I've got eyes. My server is pretty slow. Back to where it was before the F2P change. Maybe slower than that. And for what it's worth, I KNOW some of those people in that company! They aren't like this! They are doing things they fairly strenuously object to. So that should tell you something as well. Yes, it should tell you that things are so NOT-rosy over there that some of those people are willing to sacrifice a few minor ethics to help keep their company alive. That's not winning them any big fans, is it? Right now, Turbine is not powered by their fans. If anything, Warner is keeping them alive. This isn't what I want. I don't want LOTRO to fail. I want the release of Gondor and Minas Tirith to excite me the way the release of the Mines of Moria excited me. And I would PAY for that! Willingly. As long as they don't call a single zone three zones and pad 200 errands into the quest count to make it sound more impressive. I'm sick of being lied to when they KNOW I AM GOING TO SEE THE TRUTH. Is the sale so important that they can afford to lie to me and make me walk away because I can't trust them anymore? Is it really so important that they are willing to risk the company's entire future for a few bucks here and now? You tell me. Does that sound to you like everything is peachy keen over there in Turbine land? It looks and sounds to me like desperation. DIRE desperation. And yet, they are going about it in entirely the wrong way. They should be ON THEIR KNEES to their customers apologizing for misleading advertising, price gouging, and terrible customer support. And do something about it. Reduce prices in an effort to stimulate sales. Make some promises we can believe. Change some key management people so that we have a reason to believe they are serious about setting things right again. And they should definitely look at the top two posts in the "Turning Over a New Leaf" thread here. There's some very good advice in there, and those posters are right: it's not too much to ask. And at this point, I don't think anyone's asking anymore. I think its a demand. I watched AC2 fail. I hated it. I liked that game, but Turbine DID NOT listen to the advice that would have made that game thrive. Instead they did it their way and lost the whole game. And I fear that it is all going to happen again. They won't listen. They won't change. And LOTRO will fail. One day you will log in and see 11 people on the server and the next day you will see the announcement that the game servers will be shut down the following month or so. Well, maybe that will be a good thing. After it fails it will pass into other hands and maybe somebody else can do better with it. There's nothing wrong with the IP. It's all in the way you handle it. EMBX: I hope there's no hard feeling between us. If anything, thanks for listening. I'm just sad. LOTRO has SO MUCH potential, but I am thinking Turbine isn't the company to bring that potential to reality. I sincerely wish they would prove me wrong.
  9. I don't believe I've accused you personally of anything at all. However, in 57 years of dealing with businesses, I've RARELY ever dealt with one that had even an ounce of integrity. Good, honest, genuine integrity. That doesn't mean anything against you personally. In fact, based on your reply, you at least BELIEVE that you are a businessman with integrity. Maybe you really are. My comment was much more directed at Turbine than anyone else because well, that's sorta been the topic of these threads, right? So no need to get all bent out of shape over something you should have been able to see was not directed at you personally. If you choose to do that then yes, maybe you should make a quiet exit. Apparently you aren't familiar with my posts on the official forums. If you were you'd know I don't kiss turbine's butt and I in fact, ride very dangerously close to getting myself silenced by them. It's a very fine and deadly edge to walk over there right now.
  10. Actually, the term WAS available in those days. But you did NOT want to be stoned in those days!!
  11. Put yourself in their place for a few minutes and think about this. The kinsites are the websites of people actively playing their game. Their insults are for each other and are the problem of that websites admins. Not Turbine's problem because those people play their game. Actively. And the website is in itself a promotion of the game. This website is decidedly negative toward both Turbine and the Turbine moderators. This site has people pointing out every flaw in the game and in the company that runs the game. It is negative advertising and will tend to turn people away. In their shoes you'd be a moron not to react with at least the wiping of the links to this website. What exactly is it that you want to gain here? You have to define that for yourself at least before you can hope to accomplish anything at all. Do you just want to provide negative advertising, and watch Turbine and LOTRO go down the toilet? That would be vengeance. Vengeance is cheap. It destroys. And it gets rid of a game you cared enough about to be pissed when it is mismanaged. So you probably DON'T want to watch the game fail. So approach the problem from a better angle. You now know that you want the game to succeed. But you also know that the company in charge of the game is being pretty underhanded in how it promotes the game and how it deals with its customers. So those are the things you want to focus on and try to make a difference in. Anything else just clutters up the real issues and is a waste of both time and energy, and detracts from your real goals.
  12. I agree completely. In the end, Turbine has the right, and even an obligation, to manage their own site. Constitutional amendments don't apply. You do not have a "right to speak your mind" over there. You have a granted privilege that can and will be taken away if Turbine feels that your privilege is being abused. If you guys want to have an affect on the way Turbine operates and treats its customers, you are going to have to govern yourselves as carefully here as you do over there. There is ALWAYS a better way to say something. Putting some thought and effort into what you say, editing and cleaning it up, makes you look a LOT less like a ranting child and MUCH more like a thoughtful and mature adult and it lends credibility to your posts. You should exercise that no matter where you post. It is a good habit to get into and it definitely makes you more worth listening to. I'm all for making a difference. I'm all for change over at Turbine. I still have dreams that LOTRO will live up to its name. But mindless ranting and Turbine-bashing will not only fail to accomplish anything useful, it will make everyone who posts here look foolish. It's no longer just about you, the individual. This is about how a business entity is treating everyone it as presumes to do business with.
  13. I call dirty handed dirty handed. Business or not. Business is mostly dirty handed and that's why there is so little trust in it these days. Businesses and business people cheat, betray and belittle themselves with dirty practices. That's not business. It's stupidity.
  14. This makes me feel a little better about this forum community. I am unhappy with Turbine, but I definitely don't hate them. I agree wholeheartedly with MOST of what is contained in the top two posts in this thread - Turbine really does need to stop the deception and get back to being worthy of a customer's trust and loyalty. But I WILL NOT participate in a community whose only purpose in life is to bash Turbine. That won't accomplish anything, and every time somebody posts a Turbine-bashing post, it just discredits the whole community. I was, in fact, staying away after I read a seemingly endless wall of Turbine bashing by people who are angry and aren't thinking very well about what they are doing or saying. That also has to stop. Yes, you folks are mad. We can see that. You have good reason to vent. But do it carefully. Show some integrity of your own or you don't have the RIGHT to talk about Turbine's integrity. I will continue to observe. I'm being open about that. Not on behalf of Turbine - Turbine has already lost my loyalty and my trust so I am certainly not going to do them any special favors right now. But I want to see if this community can be responsible and mature about what it is saying. That's what it takes to make a difference in the world. Blowing steam in everyone's faces just turns everyone away and makes you look like an intolerant fool. I don't think anyone here wants to deliberately look like that, so exercise some caution. Be factual and precise. And above and beyond everything else, don't bloat things out of proportion because you discredit EVERYONE who posts here - hence my caution at this point. Posting here affects my credibility too.
  15. Wayshuba, your views here are very specific to certain kinds of business. They are true, but only apply under specific types of business. Other types of businesses operate quite differently from this. I personally have been involved in four that did not follow this philosophy even remotely. In many cases cutting resources DOES NOT increase revenues - and in fact kills the product. Those types of businesses actual do understand that and usually don't make that kind of decision unless it becomes absolutely vital to survival. Sometimes the only thing you can do is downsize. But downsizing ALWAYS decreases production and almost always dramatically affects quality. A lot of companies won't do that unless things go critical. None of that changes my expectations any, so again, we'll just have to see how it goes. I've usually been pretty accurate in my assumptions of the way things will go with game companies. But hey, I've been wrong before and will likely be wrong again sometime. Could be this is the time
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