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SWTOR - So Disappointed

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On the other hand, is playing it safe really playing it safe? People ultimately will get tired of this gameplay genre, so wouldn't that kind of be a certain doom after all? People aren't going to switch MMOs easily for yet another MMO that plays and feels the same, just a different IP. After all, they already have invested a lot of time in their original MMO.

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...snipped...

We are just tired of the traditional MMO WoW model.

Rift was just about different enough that it was interesting to begin with but once the shiny had worn off it become the same old thing.

The same with SWTOR, strip away the shiny and you have WOW, Lotro, Rift etc etc.

The MMO world is crying out for a game which breaks from the standard model and takes MMO's to the next level, its just that SWTOR is not that game and because of that I don't see it as this all conquering MMO that people think its going to be, in fact I can see in 3/6 months time once the shiny has worn off people looking for something new.

I can second that. While Rift is an overall very good game it's literally nothing else than LotRO with better graphics and better performance. After 3 months playing Rift i was bored. SW:TOR have nothing to offer to me. But thats just me; other may be satisfied with mere "Star Wars" and "Voice Acting".

That's the reason i would like to see a The Elder Scrolls MMO. It breaks with the classic mechanism of "finish quest or kill monsters to get experience to level up". In TES it's all about skills. You have to use a skill to level a skill. After X skill level ups you'll have a character level up and get a point to spend on perks. Character leveling is secondary and you're not in a treadmill of making endless amounts of quests. It fun and rewarding to make something complete different.

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The game was insanely overhyped to the point that a fair amount of people expected the 'next generation of MMO-gaming'.

"Over-hype" is a problem typically exacerbated by the consumer rather than the producer. If a person was interested enough in the game and what it would actually be - and followed the press realeases - their expectations should have been sufficiently tempered by the time they got to play a late-development Beta of a game that's already over a year overdue. I personally saw my expectations drop significantly since I had first heard about the game, but the Beta kind of surprised me.

But it turns out to be just like any other MMO, basically. I think that's the majority of the disappointment coming from. You can see people wanted to like the game, because it is StarWars and a lot of people like that. When those people aren't seeing their gameplay expectations being met, they might react a bit more strongly than usual.

Well, you do have to wonder what those people were expecting. Feeding-off hype rarely works out in a person's favor, right? Nothing I read about the game in the past year made me think it was going to be anything strikingly more than it appears to be. Good for me, I guess. But then, the bulk of what I paid attention to was from Bioware, not the fanbase. The fan-base has a way of misinterpreting things....convoluting things.....taking things to extremes. :)

Lest we also forget that you take away the LotR IP from LotRO and you really just have another EQ/WoW clone. Very little innovative about LotRO - and most people I know are only here because of the name. So?

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When you are spending that kind of money, being innovative is hugely risky. Should your innovations flop and the game fail, that is a lot of any company to lose. So you play safe and get a game that people will play, since it is similar to other games in the genre, but with one of the biggest IPs on the market, and perhaps leave the innovation to the first expansion

Whilst I fully see your point , I believe that it is not playing safe but missing a big opportunity.

People will ultimately get tired of what I will call the 'Traditional MMO Model', however due to there being so many MMO's that follow this formula, that tiredness sits in earlier with each new MMO.

So where as it might usually takes 9 - 12 months for the tiredness to start to set in, it will only 6 - 9 months, then 3 - 6 months and so on.

I think this is the reason we are seeing gamers rush from one mmo to another because they are wanting something new and the current model is not able hold peoples interest for long.

At some point a developer will take the risk and dare to do something different and innovative and perhaps Guild Wars 2 using the ripple effect for questing and combat system will be that game.

When a game like does arrives it will blow away the likes of WoW, Lotro, Rift, SWTOR and all the others.

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Whilst I fully see your point , I believe that it is not playing safe but missing a big opportunity.

People will ultimately get tired of what I will call the 'Traditional MMO Model', however due to there being so many MMO's that follow this formula, that tiredness sits in earlier with each new MMO.

So where as it might usually takes 9 - 12 months for the tiredness to start to set in, it will only 6 - 9 months, then 3 - 6 months and so on.

I think this is the reason we are seeing gamers rush from one mmo to another because they are wanting something new and the current model is not able hold peoples interest for long.

Nah, if anything, that's due to the attention span of some people these days...

Let's not forget that the majority of people like the safe and familiar. This is where an IP really pays off. WoW is basically an EQ clone, yet it financially surpassed it in every way - and is apparently still going strong. LotRO, DDO still around with no signs of either being in its death throes. There are plenty more that survive. Isn't that all that really matters?

Apparently what it primarily takes is a popular IP. People will play it even if the actual game-play is essentially recycled variations on the same themes. This has been proven many times and will be proven again with SWTOR.

Do you honestly think the industry would keep pooping-out the same old "safe" formats if it wasn't contributing to their longevity? There is a reason we don't see much innovation in the video game industry - it rarely pays off. In fact, ever since EQ, games that have succeeding have faithfully followed the same basic mode.

When a game like does arrives it will blow away the likes of WoW, Lotro, Rift, SWTOR and all the others.

But it probably won't. There are quite a few games that take risks and do strange, innovative stuff that break the mode and they go nowhere. They have their cult following of people who truly appreciate their novelty, but they never appeal to the masses.

I'm not saying this because I think it's right. I'm saying it because it's true.

So far...

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People will ultimately get tired of what I will call the 'Traditional MMO Model', however due to there being so many MMO's that follow this formula, that tiredness sits in earlier with each new MMO.

Yepp. Exactly.

I wouldn't spend 100+ million dollars without inventing something, or offer inventions that are optional for the players.

I also think that the traditional MMO grouping model of DPS/Tank/Healer/CC has very serious drawbacks, just for starters it's unsuitable for playing against humans. Making the move to a model where terrain matters again would be an obvious one.

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Most innovation comes from small games companies trying something to make a name for themselves in a very competitive market. They typically have small budgets and are often clever at getting most for their money. Large companies tend to pay safe as this works well and they can use their larger budgets to make bigger and better looking games that others cant compete with.

Larger companies rarely make huge changes, they instead make small ones over many years or react to small companies innovations by buying these companies thus killing of innovation. Sometimes doing everything the same pays off, look at COD, little innovation but huge profits. Sometimes innovation works, Turbine coming up with the hybrid model for DDO was innovative and made money. The big difference was Turbines innovation only came about as they had nothing to lose. When there is large sums of money at stake innovation tends to take a back seat.

That is not to say there is no reason to change, as a new idea could finally knock WoW of the no1 spot, by subs, but would you take they risk with $150 million

I wouldn't spend 100+ million dollars without inventing something, or offer inventions that are optional for the players.

You might want to but the shareholders are not going to be please if the risk backfires

I also think that the traditional MMO grouping model of DPS/Tank/Healer/CC has very serious drawbacks, just for starters it's unsuitable for playing against humans. Making the move to a model where terrain matters again would be an obvious one.

Guild Wars 2 appears to be doing away with the holy trinity of DPS/Tank/Healer so that may be interesting, also the way different plays skills can work with each other, ie player 1 puts up a fire wall, and player 2 fires a hail of arrows. When the arrows go through the wall the become flaming arrows. This could lead to some interesting teamwork

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Hmm ... I guess I am a bit more forgiving then most since I don't play every MMO that comes on the market unless it's got an IP that peaks my interest ... which thus far have been LotRO & now SWtoR respectively.

I also didn’t listen to the hype, I just kept up to date with their videos & their website updates & to be honest it really just looked like they were making a MMO version of the KotOR games & that is exactly what they made from what I can tell this past weekend, which in my opinion is nice.

Don't mean to sound like a fan boy ... but I guess I am to an extent. Then again I am not like a lot of you, I haven’t played the same model of a game over & over with every new title released ... I have only played LotRO & now SWtoR ... maybe I would be like most of you if I too played every MMO released. :/

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Hmm ... I guess I am a bit more forgiving then most since I don't play every MMO that comes on the market unless it's got an IP that peaks my interest ... which thus far have been LotRO & now SWtoR respectively.

I also didn’t listen to the hype, I just kept up to date with their videos & their website updates & to be honest it really just looked like they were making a MMO version of the KotOR games & that is exactly what they made from what I can tell this past weekend, which in my opinion is nice.

Don't mean to sound like a fan boy ... but I guess I am to an extent. Then again I am not like a lot of you, I haven’t played the same model of a game over & over with every new title released ... I have only played LotRO & now SWtoR ... maybe I would be like most of you if I too played every MMO released. :/

Sorry to say mate that Lotro was my first MMO, after that I briefly tried the rift then found my home in Eve and that is it.

Just to make my point regarding the graphics - check out the new trailer for Eve which unlike SWTOR is all real in game footage :)

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Question ... & I apologize if it's not on topic for this thread ... was there a option or place on the characters to write up a "Bio" for your character much like LotRO has? I don't remember seeing one & was wondering if there was one at all or if you have heard of them maybe implementing one at launch?

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Question ... & I apologize if it's not on topic for this thread ... was there a option or place on the characters to write up a "Bio" for your character much like LotRO has? I don't remember seeing one & was wondering if there was one at all or if you have heard of them maybe implementing one at launch?

I haven't noticed them putting any real RP elements in that game. I did suggest to the devs that they oughta put in real RP elements. Just emotes wouldn't cut it.

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I haven't noticed them putting any real RP elements in that game. I did suggest to the devs that they oughta put in real RP elements. Just emotes wouldn't cut it.

Bah, there goes the last reason I might've tried the game. Granted, I have been rather negative about it even before actually seeing it. I really hope this game develops into something worth playing, because they sure are making it harder for me to like Lotro.

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