Jump to content
LOTROCommunity

Riders of Rohan Expansion


Recommended Posts

The skirmish soldier thing kind of irks me. Captains and LM are already balanced to be as powerful as the single out there, while the former use a pet and the latter do not.

How is balance to work out there? I am mostly concerned that I don't want to be "forced" to have to use a skirmish soldier, who IMHO is an immersion-breaking bipolar moron, to be able to play content I should be able to play. Will the skirmish solider when used in the open world at least have the more advanced pet control interface?

And what about groups? Is every 6-man group now running around with 12 characters, 7-8 of them are on autopilot?

It is probably a part of their "fix" for the numerous complaints of characters being squishy after ROI. The balance is getting so far out of whack at the high levels that they are probably struggling with how to do that. Their solution? Give everyone a pet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 141
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

here is something to chew on... not sure why i am giving them the benefit of the doubt, but...remember MoM was being worked on before SoA went live. who is to say that maybe...just maybe, one o

Claims of excessive negativity or overt fanboyism (not a proper term but lets roll with it) are irrelevant straw man arguments. However, I consider the following to be valid lines of thought.

I'm totally with you on this PJ! If I left LotrO and totally despised Turbine then I can see very little reason why I would spend my time hanging around a LotrO Community forum and talking about

After playing SWTOR, I won't mind having a pocket healer follow my hunter around everywhere.

Mounted combat never struck me as a priority given the games limited budget. But at least they are trying something different.

Rohan should be an epic expansion that takes 2 years to develop. I don't think we're going to see that kind of expansion. I'll just buy it for saved points and play it for a couple of weeks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just going to lay it out there: horse combat will be their most expensive project of the year.

At the moment, horses are simply "cosmetic". Riding is a channeled skill; when it is active, your character's model plays an animation that has him appearing to be sitting on a horse. However, your character still has his feet on the ground and what he's wearing is known popularly as 'horsepants' with a nice speed buff. When the skill is interrupted, your horsepants are removed.

Where they go from there will certainly be interesting, especially considering the numerous implications surrounding the battle mechanics. They'll definitely break something--a class or two. They'll forget about PvMP so they'll probably disable it in the 'Moors. After that it'll turn into housing, skirmishing, and LIs--a broken, old feature that they hyped and then left hanging in the wind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just going to lay it out there: horse combat will be their most expensive project of the year.

My money is on it simply being lame.

I wouldn't mind if it is minimal, such as simply being able to knock a mob over for some damage and stun.

I am afraid that if they try to get swords, spears or even bows into play that can end up in a big mess both code-wise and playing wise. Doing that right might overtax them. Also, quite obvious the strict deadline, which again is at the end of one of their now so precious financial quarters, will mean it gets released no matter what state the code is in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the risk of sounding elitist, I didn't find RoI any more demanding than any other part of LOTRO. My Hunter was the first I brought up to cap and once I stopped trying to use the horrendous, stat bloated, quest gear and went back to my raid gear I had no issues at all. I used my raid gear and lvl 65 2nd age bow all the way to 75 and I was still 1 shotting normal mobs at every level. The only things I changed were some jewelry and pocket items. Did the exact same things on my Champ and Burg.

Thats one of my biggest issues with LOTRO. They have dumbed the game down so far thats its not a challenge any longer. Its also one of the things I love about ToR, just leveling can be a challenge at times.

As far as skirmishes. I use my LM to grind skirms just so I don't have to waste marks on a soldier. I agree, soldiers for some classes will make an EZmode game that much easier.

Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the Massively article, it appears that mounted combat will be restricted to Eastern Rohan. So no PvMP concerns, no "old content balance" concerns, etc. My gripe is that they're making it effectively mandatory for endgame progression, so ranking up your mount will join ranking up your "legendary" items and ranking up your skirmish soldiers as an "optional but mandatory" grind.

I don't mind the idea of bringing skirmish soldiers along. I like having minions. Minions that don't require micromanaging are the best kind (if they act relatively intelligently). I recommend that everyone start working on Herbalist soldiers, as those are the kind least likely to screw up pathing and aggro and most likely to add value to the typical soloing spec (which is usually DPS-based).

I'm curious how they're going to prevent us from going to West Rohan? Invisible wall? Invisible Rohirrim Riders who instakill you if you cross the "line?" Frankly, I think it's very odd to skip all of West Rohan, especially since the Battle of Helm's Deep takes place the day after the Battle at the Fords of Isen. Are we really going to travel all the way back to Lorien, down the Great River, and into East Rohan in the one day we are allotted between standing with Theodred at the Fords of Isen and reaching Helm's Deep? Or are they just going to turn Helm's Deep into some kind of session play?

Like everyone else, it's very hard to get excited about anything Turbine announces nowadays....

Link to post
Share on other sites

My Hunter was the first I brought up to cap and once I stopped trying to use the horrendous, stat bloated, quest gear and went back to my raid gear I had no issues at all.

This is interesting because I did the same thing. I found that I was getting hit a lot less hard with my old armor than the "new" armor so that's what I used. When I was leveling, I wondered why the old armor seemed better. But, like you, my Hunter had zero problems leveling and handling ROI.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting because I did the same thing. I found that I was getting hit a lot less hard with my old armor than the "new" armor so that's what I used. When I was leveling, I wondered why the old armor seemed better. But, like you, my Hunter had zero problems leveling and handling ROI.

Yeah, I've had no issues with "squishiness." But some of my characters have really felt the loss of the Accuracy passives. My Hunter misses about 20% of the time when using Precision stance. It's quite ... unheroic. Guess Turbine thinks I should go buy a full set of Tomes of Agility or something. Ain't gonna happen ;^)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see people wait until it actually comes out before making judgement on it, and I mean both the overly optimistic and the overly negative.

No thanks. I've given Turbine enough opportunities through a 'wait and see' approach and they've let me down every time. I'm done being optimistic. We now have enough information to arrive at reasonable conjecture by looking at their proven track record. Their proven track record says that they'll drop the ball because they're grasping for extra cash. Again. Nothing they've said gives any indication that that behaviour will change, including Sapience's recent PR-speak infested response to the community.

Anything short of their aforementioned "We're going to stop being such dicks" announcement is going to be filed in my brain under Not Good Enough and will not win me back. They can try to rebuild trust all they want, but as long as they clutch to this business model and don't let go they will not be successful in doing so with me. And seeing as the chances of them letting go at this stage are a fat zero, I guess I'll just have to wait until their license expires and gets awarded to someone reputable before ever playing an online Tolkien adaptation again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No thanks. I've given Turbine enough opportunities through a 'wait and see' approach and they've let me down every time. I'm done being optimistic. We now have enough information to arrive at reasonable conjecture by looking at their proven track record. Their proven track record says that they'll drop the ball because they're grasping for extra cash. Again. Nothing they've said gives any indication that that behaviour will change, including Sapience's recent PR-speak infested response to the community.

Anything short of their aforementioned "We're going to stop being such dicks" announcement is going to be filed in my brain under Not Good Enough and will not win me back. They can try to rebuild trust all they want, but as long as they clutch to this business model and don't let go they will not be successful in doing so with me. And seeing as the chances of them letting go at this stage are a fat zero, I guess I'll just have to wait until their license expires and gets awarded to someone reputable before ever playing an online Tolkien adaptation again.

But that's what I mean we don't know until it comes out. Maybe they have started to listen to the fans but the fact is we don't know until it comes out. That's why I said I don't think there is cause for over optimism either. Just wait and see. They may for once (as I know they haven't in the past) deliver all they promise in the press release but they may not. I think it is unfair just assuming that they won't.

I must believe in waiting and seeing despite what's happened in their past. No MMO provider gets things right all the time and due to time constraints they can't always deliver what they hope for. I do understand what you are saying in that they have promised things before and it not turned out that way but I just believe in clean slates and will wait until a new expansion is actually live on the servers before knocking it.

PJ

Link to post
Share on other sites

My money is on it simply being lame.

I wouldn't mind if it is minimal, such as simply being able to knock a mob over for some damage and stun.

I am afraid that if they try to get swords, spears or even bows into play that can end up in a big mess both code-wise and playing wise. Doing that right might overtax them. Also, quite obvious the strict deadline, which again is at the end of one of their now so precious financial quarters, will mean it gets released no matter what state the code is in.

here is something to chew on...

not sure why i am giving them the benefit of the doubt, but...remember MoM was being worked on before SoA went live.

who is to say that maybe...just maybe, one of the reasons for lackluster content updates and miniscule expacs post-MoM is because they have been working on RoR.

we know they reserved the rights to the domain name loooong ago and have mentioned Rohan and mounted combat for years.

i am not saying they devoted similar amounts of resources to it like they did with MoM, but they devoted enough that it has effected other areas.

all that being said, it could and should be an expac to rival MoM, but i fear also that mounted combat will be under par.

i have seen it tried in many game and only Mount & Blade have come up with something that feels right.

the odds are stacked against them for sure.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

But that's what I mean we don't know until it comes out. Maybe they have started to listen to the fans but the fact is we don't know until it comes out. That's why I said I don't think there is cause for over optimism either. Just wait and see. They may for once (as I know they haven't in the past) deliver all they promise in the press release but they may not. I think it is unfair just assuming that they won't.

I must believe in waiting and seeing despite what's happened in their past. No MMO provider gets things right all the time and due to time constraints they can't always deliver what they hope for. I do understand what you are saying in that they have promised things before and it not turned out that way but I just believe in clean slates and will wait until a new expansion is actually live on the servers before knocking it.

PJ

Shan't. This for me goes a lot deeper than Turbine failing to deliver on promises, and moves into their conduct and demeanour as a company offering a service.

It's their entire business ethic that grew up around the F2P/cash shop. It's broken, it's selfish and it's devoid of any responsibility for their actions; it leans firmly against the players instead of with them; it's harmful to the game, not to mention disrespectful to the IP; it's greedy and has encouraged Turbine to engage in actions that are outright illegal that they no doubt think they can get away with because they're now backed by WB's army of lawyers.

See the beginnings of the two threads I have started here to fully grasp my first hand experience of this 'new' Turbine. You'll soon see why I'll never trust them again unless they turn a complete 180 and come crawling back to me with their tails between their legs, and why anything short of that is completely unacceptable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shan't. This for me goes a lot deeper than Turbine failing to deliver on promises, and moves into their conduct and demeanour as a company offering a service.

It's their entire business ethic that grew up around the F2P/cash shop. It's broken, it's selfish and it's devoid of any responsibility for their actions; it leans firmly against the players instead of with them; it's harmful to the game, not to mention disrespectful to the IP; it's greedy and has encouraged Turbine to engage in actions that are outright illegal that they no doubt think they can get away with because they're now backed by WB's army of lawyers.

See the beginnings of the two threads I have started here to fully grasp my first hand experience of this 'new' Turbine. You'll soon see why I'll never trust them again unless they turn a complete 180 and come crawling back to me with their tails between their legs, and why anything short of that is completely unacceptable.

So if you don't like them as much as you don't then why not just try another game? There is nothing in the store you need to play which would be my definition of paying to win. So either ignore the store and enjoy playing the game without it, or if you hate what Turbine stands for that much then don't play it rather than putting off potential new players with overally negative posting about something that hasn't been released yet.

PJ

Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you don't like them as much as you don't then why not just try another game? There is nothing in the store you need to play which would be my definition of paying to win. So either ignore the store and enjoy playing the game without it, or if you hate what Turbine stands for that much then don't play it rather than putting off potential new players with overally negative posting about something that hasn't been released yet.

Who said I still play LOTRO? I certainly didn't. In fact I've been talking about how they are failing to rebuild bridges to bring me back, which would be a fairly redundant topic if I'd never left to begin with, wouldn't it? I walked away from the game a while back and when I said I will not return to the game; or indeed give Turbine penny one out of my wallet again; unless they completely reverse course, I meant it.

I have no interest in "putting off" new players, whatever that means. I have an interest in speaking my mind, and that involves a heady mix of unwelcome observations and reasonable conjecture. I also have an interest in discussing the conduct of people who are abusing their Tolkien licenses, which means that this forum is the perfect place for me, even though I no longer play. I'll continue posting here while those interests remain.

Now, to finish my response to you in classic Turbine speak: "I have heard your feelings on what you think is my undue negativity and noted them. Thank you for making your opinions known to me. I certainly expected that some would not approve of my posts, but have to admit I was surprised by the magnitude and tenor of your response. As always I welcome your feedback."

See what I did there?

So anyway, we were talking about Rohan, and how it's going to suck... :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you don't like them as much as you don't then why not just try another game? There is nothing in the store you need to play which would be my definition of paying to win. So either ignore the store and enjoy playing the game without it, or if you hate what Turbine stands for that much then don't play it rather than putting off potential new players with overally negative posting about something that hasn't been released yet.

PJ

Scrolls of Relic Removal, which are the =only= way to get back any pre-revamp tier 7-9 relics you might have. Also the only way to get back post-revamp relics, some of which require almost as much grinding as the pre-revamp ones.

Sure, you don't "need" it. You also don't "need" to play the game at all.

---

As for the "wait until it comes out before criticizing it strategy," the flaw in that is, once it's out, nothing you say will have any effect. Bad ideas need to be nipped in the bud, =before= significant effort has been wasted on developing them. Once effort has been wasted, developers are very loathe to discard that effort by scrapping the related systems.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as I'd like to run about and explore a big new area (Mirk was pretty tiny and didn't buy Isen), at this point I'm so far behind that'd it feel more like hassle than fun to get my alts up to speed, with LIs, relics, instance armor and such. Last I saw, the server's pretty top-heavy as far as levels go, as well as being very quiet with regard to open groups, so it's mostly solo quest grinding. Maybe it changed over the last few months, I don't know.

I'd almost be tempted if they'd do some massive streamlining. That's why I liked the SoA game so much- mostly just level, do (sometimes dull) traits and wander around, without all these darn armor tiers and convoluted token setups.

Hope it works out for the folks who try it, though. I'll probably still be hanging around here nevertheless; it's like reading the newspaper from your former hometown.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Who said I still play LOTRO? I certainly didn't. In fact I've been talking about how they are failing to rebuild bridges to bring me back, which would be a fairly redundant topic if I'd never left to begin with, wouldn't it? I walked away from the game a while back and when I said I will not return to the game; or indeed give Turbine penny one out of my wallet again; unless they completely reverse course, I meant it.

I have no interest in "putting off" new players, whatever that means. I have an interest in speaking my mind, and that involves a heady mix of unwelcome observations and reasonable conjecture. I also have an interest in discussing the conduct of people who are abusing their Tolkien licenses, which means that this forum is the perfect place for me, even though I no longer play. I'll continue posting here while those interests remain.

Now, to finish my response to you in classic Turbine speak: "I have heard your feelings on what you think is my undue negativity and noted them. Thank you for making your opinions known to me. I certainly expected that some would not approve of my posts, but have to admit I was surprised by the magnitude and tenor of your response. As always I welcome your feedback."

See what I did there?

So anyway, we were talking about Rohan, and how it's going to suck... :)

If you don't play any more why comment on it? Seems odd.

Hopefully Rohan won't suck :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't play any more why comment on it? Seems odd.

It's possible to like the IP without liking the company that runs it.

Personally, my playtime has been limited to grinding guild cooldowns and listing stuff on the AH, I'm just burnt out on anything else at the moment. But I continue to comment not because I hate the game, but because I love the game, or at least what it used to be, and I want it to return to that.

No offense, but I feel that as a paying customer, I have a right to comment on the product I paid for, even if I don't use it as often as you think I should.

Getting back on topic, I feel that it's too soon to release another expansion. Not in terms of players running the end-game content, but in terms of dev time. With so many parts of ROI still broken and unfinished, how do they ever expect to push out ROR on-time and relatively bug-free?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, what exactly did you say?

I wish I knew what caused it, but Celestrata got back to me, stating she had no idea why I was under Moderator Review, and that I should PM Sapience, which I just did. None of my posts made this morning have apparently cleared Mod Review to the Live forums, which is odd, since none of those posts broke any rules.

But I digress, this thread is for discussing RoR. Carry on!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Claims of excessive negativity or overt fanboyism (not a proper term but lets roll with it) are irrelevant straw man arguments.

However, I consider the following to be valid lines of thought.

1.) Study the exact wording of any press release. Big companies have rooms filled with lawyers so usually tend to make sure that they don't make statements that can blow up in their face at a later date. However, Turbine have failed to do this in the past. They may have learnt their lesson. They may not.

2.) After collating as much data that is in the public domain as possible, it is perfectly reasonable to cross reference it to make sure that old information does contradict the new.

Again a competent organisation gets all it ducks in a row

3.) Offsetting future expectations against previous experiences. Although this is not a definitive predictor, it has its uses. Some organisations can improve their reputations and track records. However, there is a lot of wisdom in the old adage "Once bitten, twice shy",

Once the hysteria about this subject has died down, I'm hoping to write a reasonable blog post about the details currently known about RoR.

Turbine certainly appear to be trying to compete with newer games. Although this is a good thing, it is driven more by necessity rather than a boundless love of their fan base. Ultimately the success of RoR hinges not on whether the product satisfies customer expectations, but whether they can shift enough units.

Turbine claimed a huge hit with ROI and by that I assume they mean money. Is that revenue being ploughed into RoR?

Seems to me that Turbine and the player community define success by different criteria these days. It would be nice if both parties can be placated, but I suspect there's as much chance of that happening, as me emptying my bladder in the Queen's handbag.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Claims of excessive negativity or overt fanboyism (not a proper term but lets roll with it) are irrelevant straw man arguments.

When excessive negativity or overt fanboyism invade ordinary conversation, they can be fairly disruptive, therefore not irrelevant IMO.

The amounts of grossly exaggerated sheer negativity on the main unofficial DDO forum, for example, are so extreme that the forum is completely worthless from the point of view of any normal person (having said that, the official Turbine DDO forums have nothing like the top-heavy moderation excesses of the LOTRO ones...).

Turbine certainly appear to be trying to compete with newer games. Although this is a good thing, it is driven more by necessity rather than a boundless love of their fan base. Ultimately the success of RoR hinges not on whether the product satisfies customer expectations, but whether they can shift enough units.

Turbine claimed a huge hit with ROI and by that I assume they mean money. Is that revenue being ploughed into RoR?

Seems to me that Turbine and the player community define success by different criteria these days.

There are probably elements of truth in both ways of looking at it ; shifting enough units depends on customer satisfaction, and vice-versa.

Comparing with DDO, the hardcore of the player base in that game, as far as I know, has generally accepted that the various compromises that came along with F2P and the new business model are necessary for the health of the game, including its financial health -- though there does tend to be some negative reaction whenever some more useless fluff or some pay-to-win elements are introduced into the game, there has never really been any outrage and only some minor amounts of /ragequit.

Now, the comparison is only a rough one, because despite the superficial similarities, the business models of DDO and LOTRO are actually rather different to each other, particularly in the mechanisms for earning free TP and in the numbers and kinds of things that TP are used for. DDO has a far leaner model, with both greater difficulty to gain free TP, but also more focused areas where TP expenditure is needed ; whereas LOTRO provides easier, albeit sometimes more repetitively grindy, access to free TP, but OTOH a lot more fluff 'n' stuff that it can be spent on.

So it could be said that due to this increased importance in the game of TP usage for various purposes that TP are more centrally important to LOTRO than DDO ; except that the less generous method of free TP awarding in DDO means that in practice, unlocking contents in LOTRO using free TP only is actually a lot easier to do than in DDO.

All in all, I'd really have to conclude that as far as free TP is concerned anyway, LOTRO is a lot more player-friendly than DDO ; probably because they had well over a year's experience with F2P in DDO, so that when they implemented it for LOTRO they didn't make some of the mistakes that they did with the DDO version of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's possible to like the IP without liking the company that runs it.

Personally, my playtime has been limited to grinding guild cooldowns and listing stuff on the AH, I'm just burnt out on anything else at the moment. But I continue to comment not because I hate the game, but because I love the game, or at least what it used to be, and I want it to return to that.

No offense, but I feel that as a paying customer, I have a right to comment on the product I paid for, even if I don't use it as often as you think I should.

Getting back on topic, I feel that it's too soon to release another expansion. Not in terms of players running the end-game content, but in terms of dev time. With so many parts of ROI still broken and unfinished, how do they ever expect to push out ROR on-time and relatively bug-free?

You are right, of course you can like the IP but not the company but I thought Hajile was meaning they never play the game at all so why keep getting annoyed and negative about a game they don't play?

I still think that until RoR comes out I don't think it is fair to be critical of it. When it comes out and if it doesn't deliver what it promises then is the time to complain.

I myself am really looking forward to seeing what they do with Mounted Combat and I am sure that the promised free area for VIPers will be good :-)

Please don't think I am a Turbine fanboy, I would much prefer Codemasters to still be in charge. Their forum pruning is just crazy especially after promising they weren't going to but I am still believe this game can be turned around with a successful expansion.

PJ

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...