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Riders of Rohan Expansion


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I'm totally with you on this PJ!

If I left LotrO and totally despised Turbine then I can see very little reason why I would spend my time hanging around a LotrO Community forum and talking about it - I can understand that the pain might run deep, the urge for revenge might seem attractive etc etc but spending my time negative posting wouldn't be very good for my soul, I'd try to let go and get on with my life - then again, that's just how I work! :)

Back on topic;

- I have my serious doubts about any implementation of mounted combat but then again, the first company that does manage to pull thi off in a serious manner will get a lot of attention for it I guess - hope for the best but wouldn't bet on Turbine being the ones to crack this.

- The idea of bringing the Soldiers out into "real life" doesn't appeal to me at all - at least not if I will be forced to. I've tried to stay away from companions and skirmishes as much as possible and definitely don't want that optional side of LotrO becomming mandatory.

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here is something to chew on... not sure why i am giving them the benefit of the doubt, but...remember MoM was being worked on before SoA went live. who is to say that maybe...just maybe, one o

Claims of excessive negativity or overt fanboyism (not a proper term but lets roll with it) are irrelevant straw man arguments. However, I consider the following to be valid lines of thought.

I'm totally with you on this PJ! If I left LotrO and totally despised Turbine then I can see very little reason why I would spend my time hanging around a LotrO Community forum and talking about

here is something to chew on...

not sure why i am giving them the benefit of the doubt, but...remember MoM was being worked on before SoA went live.

who is to say that maybe...just maybe, one of the reasons for lackluster content updates and miniscule expacs post-MoM is because they have been working on RoR.

we know they reserved the rights to the domain name loooong ago and have mentioned Rohan and mounted combat for years.

i am not saying they devoted similar amounts of resources to it like they did with MoM, but they devoted enough that it has effected other areas.

all that being said, it could and should be an expac to rival MoM, but i fear also that mounted combat will be under par.

i have seen it tried in many game and only Mount & Blade have come up with something that feels right.

the odds are stacked against them for sure.

Oh yes, entirely possible.

My comment you quoted was specifically about the mechanics of mounted combat. Which I think might suffer severely from either making them too compatible with stupid people or from code underdevelopment.

I didn't mean to say that the new landmass will be lame. If you decide to invest the resources that is easier to achieve than combat mechanics in a very old codebase.

I wish I knew what caused it, but Celestrata got back to me, stating she had no idea why I was under Moderator Review, and that I should PM Sapience, which I just did. None of my posts made this morning have apparently cleared Mod Review to the Live forums, which is odd, since none of those posts broke any rules.

But I digress, this thread is for discussing RoR. Carry on!

If they have a moderation feature on that trainwreck of a forum I can't image it actually works smoothly. Just saying...

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Oh yes, entirely possible.

My comment you quoted was specifically about the mechanics of mounted combat. Which I think might suffer severely from either making them too compatible with stupid people or from code underdevelopment.

I suppose it depends on how you define "mounted combat", but in UO well over a decade ago, you could fight from horseback and even get off the horse and have it fight alongside you. Which was particularly nasty if that horse happened to have been a trained up Nightmare.

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You are right, of course you can like the IP but not the company but I thought Hajile was meaning they never play the game at all so why keep getting annoyed and negative about a game they don't play?

PJ

In my case, and I suspect a multitude of others, it's an IP we cherish, and I know I want to be there more than anything else. And yes, Turbine ruins it to a magnitude I cannot overlook anymore.

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If I left LotrO and totally despised Turbine then I can see very little reason why I would spend my time hanging around a LotrO Community forum and talking about it - I can understand that the pain might run deep, the urge for revenge might seem attractive etc etc but spending my time negative posting wouldn't be very good for my soul, I'd try to let go and get on with my life - then again, that's just how I work! :)

Just for clarity, I'd like to rebut any suggestion that I'm "negative posting" out of an "urge for revenge" - I am a former LOTRO player, in that I used to play, but don't any more. This situation is due entirely to Turbine's conduct and performance over the last couple years, but the specific reasons for me quitting the game are no-one's business but mine.

I still have; outside of the scope of internet forums; ongoing consumer rights complaints and lines of inquiry that I'm exploring regarding my as-yet-unresolved issues with Turbine's conduct. Some of which is fairly well-documented here. Despite my status as a former player, this keeps both game and company very much fresh in my mind, especially considering that they are still actively committing the offences for which I am accusing them. As you can imagine, that means that I will continue to observe and comment for as long as I care to. Turbine's current actions are of the utmost relevance and interest to me.

Now I hope that has been dealt with, and anyone who was curious now understands my continued presence here. Onward with the Rohan comments.

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Well, there are some players who have a positive view of this announcement (as have I).

At https://www.facebook.com/LOTRO you can see that:-

749 people so far "like" the announcement.

173 have shared it with their friends.

There are 158 comments, predominantly favourable.

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If the upcoming changes are favourable to the players, that's one thing. However, Turbine has a long laundry list of player complaints that still have not been addressed in the players' favour, and players remember things like that, and they base their purchases on things like that.

The only reason that Turbine is making any announcements at all this week is because players have them by the short-and-curlies right now. It's all "panem et circenses" to get players to forget the bad that came before.

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That doesn't sound like the sort of change a game going from strength to strength would make. That sounds like a game that's struggling, and their PR folks trying hard to remain on message.

Agree with your post 100%. Also, as I mentioned before, I am a shareholder in Time-Warner (the parent company of Warner Brothers) and Turbine's claims and TWs shareholders statements don't jive. Apparently someone finally told them how certain claims can't be made in a public company, even broad claims such as tripling revenue. Doesn't look good when TW reports the game business is LOSING money, when they are making claims they are making money.

I think Rohan, unlike RoI, is going to be a huge bomb for them. So much damage was done in 2011 it isn't even remotely recoverable with Rohan. As I mentioned before, I am currently in SWTOR with a lot of long-term (read lifer) players and the Rohan announcement did the same for them that it did for me - basically a big who cares, I've moved on from LOTRO.

LOTRO - R.I.P. 2012

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Well, there are some players who have a positive view of this announcement (as have I).

At https://www.facebook.com/LOTRO you can see that:-

749 people so far "like" the announcement.

173 have shared it with their friends.

There are 158 comments, predominantly favourable.

Not only what Dalthalion said in regards to this comment, but I have been around since the beginning and I do not think there is a single expansion or update that Turbine hasn't announced something that wasn't changed or outright eliminated by the time it launched. Being that the RoR expansion is not due until fall of this year, lots of time for Turbine to hope their announcements are forgotten when they fail to deliver.

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Well, there are some players who have a positive view of this announcement (as have I).

I have a fundamental question that none of the hype has answered. Why would they raise the cap and greatly expand the game with a new area and new combat system when there are still so many problems with the current expansion (ROI)? Why is it neglected?

When Riders of Rohan is released, will it become simply another dilapidated neglected unfinished tourist trap on the road to the next announced expansion continuing ad infinitum to the ultimate end of LoTRO?

Why don't people realize what it is that Turbine is doing?

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Just for clarity, I'd like to rebut any suggestion that I'm "negative posting" out of an "urge for revenge" - I am a former LOTRO player, in that I used to play, but don't any more. This situation is due entirely to Turbine's conduct and performance over the last couple years, but the specific reasons for me quitting the game are no-one's business but mine.

I still have; outside of the scope of internet forums; ongoing consumer rights complaints and lines of inquiry that I'm exploring regarding my as-yet-unresolved issues with Turbine's conduct. Some of which is fairly well-documented here. Despite my status as a former player, this keeps both game and company very much fresh in my mind, especially considering that they are still actively committing the offences for which I am accusing them. As you can imagine, that means that I will continue to observe and comment for as long as I care to. Turbine's current actions are of the utmost relevance and interest to me.

Now I hope that has been dealt with, and anyone who was curious now understands my continued presence here. Onward with the Rohan comments.

I am not saying you are in the wrong over your complaint I am sure you were treated unfairly but at the end of the ay it is their game and they can if they want to ban you for no reason whatsoever as long as they give you a refund un monthly fee that is left over so is it really worth you perusing themwhen all it seems to do is get you wound up? They aren't gonna change their mind are they. I still don't see how you can be negative about a game you don't play with an expansion that isn't out yet.

Back on topic have they said much about the mounted combat as in the mechanics behind it or not yet?

PJ

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as long as they give you a refund un monthly fee that is left over

This is the problem. If Sapience decides to give you an in-game perma-ban because you used the dreaded L-word, you get nothing back. If you buy a 12-month subscription on Feb 1, and you get banned Feb 2 because you rightfully called a lie a lie, you're SOL. Your only recourse is to file a chargeback if the charge is recent enough, or use the legal system if you can't get a chargeback.

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This is the problem. If Sapience decides to give you an in-game perma-ban because you used the dreaded L-word, you get nothing back. If you buy a 12-month subscription on Feb 1, and you get banned Feb 2 because you rightfully called a lie a lie, you're SOL. Your only recourse is to file a chargeback if the charge is recent enough, or use the legal system if you can't get a chargeback.

You don't get $38 out of your $40 back if you get kicked out from Disneyland after 10 minutes for bad behavior.

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You don't get $38 out of your $40 back if you get kicked out from Disneyland after 10 minutes for bad behavior.

Not sure that's a good analogy. I've seen someone kicked out of Disneyland. There were multiple witnesses, multiple park employees, including security involved. In other words, verifiable misconduct and more than one person solely and secretly deciding that they were naughty.

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This is the problem. If Sapience decides to give you an in-game perma-ban because you used the dreaded L-word,

Hm, what's L-word? Last time I checked, it's Lesbian, darling. Google it if you don't believe me. If people are getting banned for that, it's time to rain holy gay rights fire. :P

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The L-word is Lie. (don't ban me for using such a vulgar word, I'm just answering the question ;))

Case in point, here's a pre and post mod-edit version of a post on the official forums.

http://i.imgur.com/qzgYf.png

http://i.imgur.com/ohPhi.png

Only two lines were removed by the edit, neither of which are against the public TOS:

"my problem is that you lied twice in your response!" and "Lie number 3"

To those defending this, is it reasonable to hand out infractions, never-ending moderations, and perm-bans for rules that have never been made public? Is it reasonable for the mods to randomly make up rules on the spot against posts that criticize Turbine?

Half the time it seems like the forums are run by Pee-wee Herman. "You said today's secret word! You're banned!"

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It's usual corporate garbage. In the modern office world the worst thing you can do is accuse somebody of lying. Especially if it is true, then it is really offensive.

Here is how it typically goes if you tell a bigwig that somebody fucks up a project by directly lying about something to you, then did something else, you have witnesses and it is all waterproof:

you: "This person lied to me. He said he's gonna do one thing and then did another and that's why the proje..."

VP: "WHAT?. Oh <your name> you shouldn't have done that. What are we gonna do with you, that is a real problem for this department" (your accusation is the problem, not the lie, or the b0rked project).

Here is how you do it with the VC:

you: "this project went south because <untruthful person's name> didn't communicate clearly what he was about to do"

VP:OMFG. I'm so glad you brought this to my attention. [yelling out of the room to his assistent] TILLY TILLY TILLY! We have a bad communicator in out mids. Get the goon squad and STONE HIM.

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"Lying" is a bit loaded.

So, Turbine did this:

(1) They said everything in the store would be convenience, not advantage.

(2) A bit later they put advantages in the store.

OK, what they said in (1) was untrue. Is it fair to call it a lie? Yes, if you think they were planning (2) all along and thinking "Mwuhaha, this will annoy those fool players when they find out!" But what if they started out with good intentions and later changed their mind; would you call it a lie then? Or what if there was internal debate: some people wanted "convenience only" but management overrode their decision? Was any individual actually lying then? Is it possible for a company to lie even though no individual lies? Well, maybe.

While pointing out what's happened in the store, we can be hostile and call it "lying", or we can more calmly say "not as described"; "changed their mind"; "not thought through"; even "clueless".

If we're hostile on purpose we'll get hostile reactions, even if what we say is true.

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So, Turbine did this:

(1) They said everything in the store would be convenience, not advantage.

(2) A bit later they put advantages in the store.

Actually they didn't wait til 'later.' Stat tomes and store-only potions were there on day 1.

As for the hostility comments I totally agree. A lot of the post I see getting deleted/moderated are attacks on Turbine or other players. Contrary to popular belief on this forum, it is possible voice your displeasure without attacking anyone, even if you feel those attacks are 'justified.'

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OK, what they said in (1) was untrue. Is it fair to call it a lie?

Yes, that's how lies work. :/

If we're hostile on purpose we'll get hostile reactions, even if what we say is true.

Right, because not being hostile has caused them to deal so honourably with the playerbase up until we started being hostile. ;)

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