Jump to content
LOTROCommunity

Stop and Go Lag


Spheric
 Share

Recommended Posts

Either way lets assume some level of competence in their engineers. Such attacks would be fairly straight forward to spot yet they still claim not to be able to spot where the problem exists so I doubt it's somthing so obvious.

If there was an attack they would deny it.

I'm not saying it's likely. But if there is no way there's going to admit it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A brute-force attack on passwords sounds unlikely to cause raid lag while login works fine.

This week, I've had a couple of times where I got a 'the logon server is busy' message when trying to login to Eldar, ( this week is the first time I've logged in since U6 ). I think someone else mentioned it on the Turbine forums also. When I managed to login the server was definitely not busy by any normal definition. Globallff had around the usual 300 members. Due to the lag problems seemingly starting with update 6 though according to the Lag thread, a DDoS attack seems unlikely to me, more likely that the problems are more related to Turbine coders not being able to find their arse with both hands lately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

History would tell us that Turbine will deny and specifically not communicate about something they don't want to admit or be known. Be it a security breach, possible attack, coding or administration incompetence, reduction in server capacity (due to loss of income, oh dear!), implementation of code they really don't want to disclose... whatever. While some conspiracies(not used derogatorily)voiced here have at least reasonable merit, it also seems like an open playing field... i.e., all options are open - who the heck knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there was an attack they would deny it. I'm not saying it's likely. But if there is no way there's going to admit it.

That would seem to fall within the overall pattern of communication they we're seeing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was noticeable for me after f2p launch. Then it went away when SWTOR launched. U6 re-filled the servers, we're back in lagland. My bet is on Time-Warner And Turbine (see what i did there? huh? huh?) slashing server costs, meaning that when they say "servers look fine" they ARE, in fact telling the truth. Servers ARE fine, reacting JUST like they should when too many people stress the substandard equipment and cheaper connections.

So anyways, I think the best solution is for all of us to join SWTOR forums and start demanding new and exciting content, should clear the issue right up at LOTRO ;-P

(Heh.. just noticed the cool signature above this reply...

""One last thing I'd like to mention is that there seem to be some former members of the community who have decided to add to the concerns and issues surrounding the transition by misrepresenting some facts. Primarily, banning is almost always a last resort. It usually takes a willful act (indeed a series of them) on the part of the party being removed from the community to get banned. Multiple warnings, infractions, and appeals are usually involved. Often times warnings are informal and sent via PM or a simple post asking those involved to change the subject, refrain from posting certain topics, etc." - Sapience, LOTRO Forum Topic Clarification Needed On Profanity Community Guideline" *They stopped banning.. now they put all your replies on "subject to moderation" and you never hear about it again... effectively a mute*)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was noticeable for me after f2p launch. Then it went away when SWTOR launched. U6 re-filled the servers, we're back in lagland.

There is no indication that there are more active players at a certain time compared to before U6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I must say, if it weren't for Mass Effect 3's ending, I'd probably be playing LotRO and being equally as frustrated by the lag. However, as I am working on an immensely crazy project, most of my time is being spent in trying to rewrite portions of the game while writing end-game sequences to literally hundreds of variations.

I'm 28,000 words deep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like it is something in the client that is wrong

Please do not reinstall. Maybe I did not make things clear enough. We have seen that it helps in some cases and not in others. That means it is not the root cause. If it were, then it would resolve the issue 100% of the time. It doesn't.

What we do know, for a fact, at this point, based on all our research, is:

It is not server side.

It is not in our datacenter.

It is client based.

We have some theories we're testing and should know more once we run them all down.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?&postid=6101054#post6101054

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finally, Turbine is backed so far into a corner that they have to admit the obvious. Screening for posterity.

update6lagclientbad.jpg

Nah.

How you gonna explain that the same client software issue affects these two things:

  • All members of a raid in a boss fight losing contact for a couple seconds at the same time
  • You riding a stable horse and getting unhorsed

The only client side issue that could explain both of these is if something in the network code (either side, client is possible) has been effed up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A DoS would bring them to a crashing halt, not just lag them out.

They admit it is client based. That means the last adjustment is the culprit.

What if the update to the server used tighter code than the one ported out to customers? The server would then have one slightly different version, and those differences may be the real reason for the problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if the update to the server used tighter code than the one ported out to customers? The server would then have one slightly different version, and those differences may be the real reason for the problems.

As I said earlier, this explanation would fit:

Maybe somebody fatfingered the code that deals with exceptions in UDP packet flow. You have to deal with those yourself. Lost packets, out of order, duplicate, fragmented, all this can happen with UDP. If you use UDP you have to write the software to deal with these yourself (if you don't want that you use TCP).

Let's say you screw up the code so that it chokes on all or some of of these packet flow irregularities. That would affect people who (in Internet terms) are farther away more. It would affect wifi users more. It would affect people very close to the datacenters, in good Internet lines such as Turbine employee more.

This can then explain why whole fellowships lag and bomb, if on one hand you have damaged the code, and if you have a router somewhere that messes with the packets. Fragmentation in particular can happen easily and technically isn't even an error. Such a router sits in a place that affects all of -say- a European fellowship.

Complicated things like this usually have two or more reasons. For all we know there could have been a router causing packet abnormalities for months, but nobody cared since the code correctly dealt with it. Now you update the code and it doesn't anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

client side is to blame? client's software? or client's hardware?

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that when I installed lotro onto my newly built computer after U6, my warden would not log in. Period. I uninstalled and reinstalled 3 damn times because it would get to character loading into world and it would just stall there...forever. Finally on the third install I tried a different character and it logged in fine. Then tried the warden and it finally loaded. Once in game, I brought the issue up in /glff and was told that others are also having that problem and that the work around is to log a non warden character in first. This is still a problem. I still cannot log my warden in upon first opening lotro. If it's a client side fault, it's the software on the client side. Their code is getting so bugged that sooner or later their game will not function at all....and they won't even know where to start to repair it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had some odd effects last night. Since the last update I've been finding that LOTRO would often load and, just as the loading bar filled, lose connection with the server. A second attempt would always work, so I guess that there's a client bug which is worked around once key files are already in memory.

That happened last night but then, on the second loading attempt, I got in but...

- joined no chat channels

- wasn't in a kin

- friends list showed none of them online (impossible with that lot!)

- had only 25% of my usual morale!

A bad moment. "Yikes, my kin have kicked me for ninja looting and Turbine have chopped my morale because I don't spend enough in the Store???"

Happily, after relogging everything was back to normal. (And yes, several friends were online). In chat, I found that others had also had problems logging in, although none matched my symptoms exactly.

I don't think all that could have been client-side. It looks more like the login server messing about to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By "client" they mean the actual LOTRO client, not our computers, isp's, modems, routers, cats, dogs, wives, and families.... Wouldn't surprise me though, if it were the server software code that got updated in the process that's messing up. Would explain the simultaneous remote messups. Doesn't rule out that the client code is ALSO messed up, though.

Server software would explain it also in the sense that these spikes, at least in my case, tend to happen during "prime time" hours, considering i didn't have the issue at those lovely 3am times (which due to work, I can't play anymore *sad panda face*).

One thing for sure, Time-Warner And Turbine with their lapdogs Sap and Celes should be gunpointed into publically apologizing to all the people they've forum-muted/banned for complaining about this originally "non-existent" problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that when I installed lotro onto my newly built computer after U6, my warden would not log in. Period. I uninstalled and reinstalled 3 damn times because it would get to character loading into world and it would just stall there...forever. Finally on the third install I tried a different character and it logged in fine. Then tried the warden and it finally loaded. Once in game, I brought the issue up in /glff and was told that others are also having that problem and that the work around is to log a non warden character in first. This is still a problem. I still cannot log my warden in upon first opening lotro. If it's a client side fault, it's the software on the client side. Their code is getting so bugged that sooner or later their game will not function at all....and they won't even know where to start to repair it.

I have this as well (though I've never bothered reinstalling).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe all those job openings recently were due to the smarter IT people getting the hell outta Dodge before the big meltdown, not wanting to have their own professional rep tarnished but the companies bad mana. That would mean that some of the people most in the know may not be there anymore, so they can't fix issues the same way they used to. Now they have to hunt things down.

One of the ways some programmers engage in job protection is to be less than diligent in recording code function both within the code and a manual. It tends to make them almost indispensable. Even if management wanted a physical record, how would these non programmers even know what is or isn't included? You could probably hand them a cook book, and they likely wouldn't crack it until something went wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe all those job openings recently were due to the smarter IT people getting the hell outta Dodge before the big meltdown, not wanting to have their own professional rep tarnished but the companies bad mana. That would mean that some of the people most in the know may not be there anymore, so they can't fix issues the same way they used to. Now they have to hunt things down.

One of the ways some programmers engage in job protection is to be less than diligent in recording code function both within the code and a manual. It tends to make them almost indispensable. Even if management wanted a physical record, how would these non programmers even know what is or isn't included? You could probably hand them a cook book, and they likely wouldn't crack it until something went wrong.

A codebase like this always has turnover problems. The engine is old and it is not actively expanded (in the engine sense). There is no chance in hell that the wizards that drove it forward originally are still there, they would be bored to death.

Code documented in a document outside the code is usually worthless. It's out of sync with the code faster than anybody can ever get any use out of it. A nice written thing explaining major algorithms and the data structures making up overall program state, that's nice to to have.

I'm getting more and more convinced that some piece of networking code dealing with UDP packet abnormalities is out of sync between client side software and server side software, or that a change to this code in U6 exposed stuff that was broken all along but was covered up by the previous version of the code.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then they're probably screwed, because since the hack I've had absolutely NO faith in their network skills at all.

The hack was with the architecture of the community site and some idiot manager's decision to just open the database to the world to ease the European transition.

In general you have a point. As a Boston company they are probably networker-starved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's just strange tho that as many people that are suffering the lags and other mysterious issues, there are just as many that aren't suffering ANY thing. That is more mind boggling to me. I just got an associate degree in IT programming and I don't know the beginning of crap, but I do have a strong gut feeling there are tons upon tons of code errors in this game..and probably in every game once it's several years old.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's just strange tho that as many people that are suffering the lags and other mysterious issues, there are just as many that aren't suffering ANY thing. That is more mind boggling to me. I just got an associate degree in IT programming and I don't know the beginning of crap, but I do have a strong gut feeling there are tons upon tons of code errors in this game..and probably in every game once it's several years old.

Well the question is what did they do in U6 that exposed so many of the errors that it turned into a problem.

I see very few speaking out that they have no lags, and most of those have admitted to no grouping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dunno Darmokk, I duo'd for the first time last weekend after soloing for I have no idea how long. I asked the other player if they had any lag and they said no, yet I was lagging on every button press. I've talked about it a couple of times in /glff and a good number have no idea what I'm talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...