Jump to content
LOTROCommunity
AgamemnonV1

Try a little less bias

Recommended Posts

Here's a suggestion: try to find some administrators that aren't completely one-sided and condescending. It makes the forums seem more friendly and inviting rather than a snake pit.

And if you really have to ask the how, I point you to this fiasco:

Anyone in a position of authority on a forum would immediately shut down a religion-bashing circlejerk--except an administrator who took full-part in it (and even went as far as to split the topic and create a famous "religion" topic on a board that has nothing to do with religion). I get that everyone is in their teens/twenties and thinks, "Hey, I've read Descartes and Nietzsche, so I know all about concepts and beliefs that are older than recorded history". I also get that it's very popular to harp on religion. What I don't get is why anyone who call themselves a responsible adult decided to divide the community because he clearly showed everyone that he is not impartial (as anyone in forum administration should be) and instead he's rather condescending.

Might I suggest to err on the side of caution? Or, possibly, to consider that, hey, one should not clearly insult someone else on their belief system, especially when said person came out of their way to defend his own kin? It might make the site seem less of a joke and it might prevent community members like me from leaving this site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind Sir, you have got to be joking.

As an almost 60 years old philosopher I took no active part in these debates, fully expecting them to degenerate into mud-slinging emo-shows of imbecility.

While no solutions to eternal problems of humanity were posted, the debate temperature or relevance was not higher than a debate about the shape of my shoes or the smell of my socks might have engendered. (I admit the latter subject might be a heated one.)

As an old grumpy fart, I rarely say nice things – but I have to re-state;

“Well done all concerned, from posters to administration.”

As a forum administrator myself I used to lock such pointless and dangerous topics more quickly than it was done here.

The maturity of the debate here surprised me, as no Elves were hurt.

Kind OP – go and lock threads on your own forums.

Congratulations to all involved.

Keep up the good work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't be ridiculous, Aga.

The only one taking part in that thread of the Admin's was Muer.

Are you saying he has to be impartial just because he's an administrator?

He has to moderate fairly, which I think he does, but I don't agree that he has to be impartial.

He's entitled to his opinions, just as we are entitled to ours.

It's also maybe not the done thing to criticise the guy who got this site up and running on a non-issue such as that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lord

Yes, sauf that;

It's also maybe not the done thing to criticise the guy who got this site up and running on a non-issue such as that.

Admins and Elves are fair game, always. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The moderators were speaking their opinions as normal people, not as moderators. Remember, behind every moderator is still a human being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Trinsec said: I was posting as a user. Even though I have a few extra buttons at my disposal, just about every post I make is to be read in user context. Now, I know from experience that this doesn't really help, as some will always think "Ooh, an admin, he must be posting an official point of view". No, I don't.

Modbreak: Unless I mark my text like this
or close a topic, you may assume that it's posted as a user like the rest of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Full agreement with everyone else who has posted here. Mods are free to their opinions and the thread was hardly a snake pit, in fact it was one of the most level-headed threads I've had the pleasure to be a part of that involve religion. It's a very rare thing to find (coming from someone who's spent most if not all of their adult life 'debating' theists) and I'm impressed with some of the posters on this site for it, such as Dal, for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a suggestion: try to find some administrators that aren't completely one-sided and condescending. It makes the forums seem more friendly and inviting rather than a snake pit.

And if you really have to ask the how, I point you to this fiasco:

Anyone in a position of authority on a forum would immediately shut down a religion-bashing circlejerk--except an administrator who took full-part in it (and even went as far as to split the topic and create a famous "religion" topic on a board that has nothing to do with religion). I get that everyone is in their teens/twenties and thinks, "Hey, I've read Descartes and Nietzsche, so I know all about concepts and beliefs that are older than recorded history". I also get that it's very popular to harp on religion. What I don't get is why anyone who call themselves a responsible adult decided to divide the community because he clearly showed everyone that he is not impartial (as anyone in forum administration should be) and instead he's rather condescending.

Might I suggest to err on the side of caution? Or, possibly, to consider that, hey, one should not clearly insult someone else on their belief system, especially when said person came out of their way to defend his own kin? It might make the site seem less of a joke and it might prevent community members like me from leaving this site.

Tell us more about being condescending. Im a 40+ year old who read Descartes and Nietzsche, just started reading Agamenon on hypocrisy. Proclaiming "it might make the site seem less of a joke" was a master stroke in prose. So again, please tell us more about being condescending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't agree completely with Agememnons point here, I personally feel the debate in both threads continued with a suprising level of maturity, I fully expected it to end a lot worse than it did. I also do believe that the thread that was locked did need locking when it was and that it was the right thing to do.

I do however wonder if it was wise to decide to have the last word on the subject before locking it, it almost felt as if by adding your closing remarks and then locking it you were somehow deciding what the final conclusion to the debate was. I think the moderation of this forum is excellent as is the community here but it always annoys me when, for example, sapiance has the last word and then locks a topic leaving no room for reply, it kind of annoyed me a bit here to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't agree completely with Agememnons point here, I personally feel the debate in both threads continued with a suprising level of maturity, I fully expected it to end a lot worse than it did. I also do believe that the thread that was locked did need locking when it was and that it was the right thing to do.

I do however wonder if it was wise to decide to have the last word on the subject before locking it, it almost felt as if by adding your closing remarks and then locking it you were somehow deciding what the final conclusion to the debate was. I think the moderation of this forum is excellent as is the community here but it always annoys me when, for example, sapiance has the last word and then locks a topic leaving no room for reply, it kind of annoyed me a bit here to.

I can sort of see what you mean with this but I think that only really works if Muer was giving an official comment on the thread. Since he closed it but posted a comment just as any other member, it was no more the last word as me commenting and Muer having closed it without word afterwards.

Having said that, even if it was seen as an 'official' comment, I still don't feel there was a final conclusion to that thread at all. It just sort of fizzled out with neither side really meeting on common ground so it was open at the end as it began.

The Religion Debate thread, however, could still have a lot of life in it. All we need to do is find some new topic in religion to bicker about and it could be just as entertaining as it was a few weeks back! Moral law, anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the end, MueR closed the thread, based on the the one factor that I have always acknowledged - it's his board. I do not begrudge him for doing it, regardless of his personal philosophy. He saw a need to manage his property and did so. As a comparison, we may not like it when a neighbour cuts down a tree in his yard, but it would be foolish to say that he can't, since both the tree and the yard are his.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the end, MueR closed the thread, based on the the one factor that I have always acknowledged - it's his board. I do not begrudge him for doing it, regardless of his personal philosophy. He saw a need to manage his property and did so. As a comparison, we may not like it when a neighbour cuts down a tree in his yard, but it would be foolish to say that he can't, since both the tree and the yard are his.

Tricky.

A few days ago a guy was fined a million Euros for cutting down some old oaks on his parcel.

Also, while I disagree with the OP, and have myself used the “cuius regio, eius religio” ;) forum ownership argument against “free speech” advocates, I can imagine extreme cases.

Some sort of terrorist or Brevijk (whatever his name) propaganda from a gaming forum owner would breach the community consensus.

Same if somebody doubted the existence of Dwarves.

Gods and Elves on the other hand – are fair game in my view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can sort of see what you mean with this but I think that only really works if Muer was giving an official comment on the thread. Since he closed it but posted a comment just as any other member, it was no more the last word as me commenting and Muer having closed it without word afterwards.

Having said that, even if it was seen as an 'official' comment, I still don't feel there was a final conclusion to that thread at all. It just sort of fizzled out with neither side really meeting on common ground so it was open at the end as it began.

Oh I've no doubt that it was never Muers intention and as has been mentioned, it's he's board to do with as he will and the moderation on this board has always been excellent. It's just that if that were the first thread you were to read as a newbie to this forum it may have given that impression

The Religion Debate thread, however, could still have a lot of life in it. All we need to do is find some new topic in religion to bicker about and it could be just as entertaining as it was a few weeks back! Moral law, anyone?

Evolution vs Intelligent Design vs Creationism is always a good one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Evolution vs Intelligent Design vs Creationism is always a good one!

A personal favourite of mine, though I doubt anyone on these forums really rejects evolution. Most are clearly too smart for that, at least. I think we had briefly touched on abiogenesis at one point but that's an area in which you really need a huge knowledge of science to understand (not in an insulting way, it really does need it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a poser for ya:

If God hates gays so much, why did he make some people gay?

Surely, if he is the Creator of us all, it's his own fault for supposed "design-flaws"(Note, I have no problem with people's sexual preference, one of my best friends is a pole-smoker!) ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As with everyone else, Aga, I have to disagree with you. Unfair opinion badly expressed with entirely unnecessary caustic language. If you think there's a better moderated LOTRO forum out there, perhaps you'd care to tell us where it is. It sure as shit ain't Turbine's! ;)

* NB: Personal bias - Muer is a friend / kinnie / co-Alliance leader / blah / etc. And if you think I'd be shy of bollocking him if he's out of order, you don't know either of us! He wasn't; you sir, frankly, are, just for once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a poser for ya:

If God hates gays so much, why did he make some people gay?

Surely, if he is the Creator of us all, it's his own fault for supposed "design-flaws"(Note, I have no problem with people's sexual preference, one of my best friends is a pole-smoker!) ;)

Unfortunately, I know all the (usually christian) arguments inside out. That particular one would be brushed off as because man is imperfect for Adam and Eve's 'sin' or by saying sexuality is a choice. Ignoring that it is absurd to believe that an entity that created an entire frickin' universe would care what sexuality you are, or even if you worship it or not.

That, of course, is usually from the more stupid of apologetics so not something you'll find here. No, what you will find here is that most people with a religion do not subscribe to that idea of God, preferring instead to pick and choose the concepts of a god they enjoy, pretty much making their own belief system as opposed to the one written down. That is a method I would prefer for all people with religion, instead of having to limit themselves to one particular dogma. Look through them all and pick your favourite bits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look through them all and pick your favourite bits.

I've been doing that since the early 80's after a priest explained to me the Christian notion of free will. Essentially at its core was god was omnipresent and was aware of the choices and decisions I would make throughout my life.

I took it as an endorsement by god to pick and choose what I wanted to believe and follow. A hard paradox for those whose interest lay with maintance of the dogma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks, let's keep this one on-topic please :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks, let's keep this one on-topic please :)

I think we might need a couple of posts moved to the Religion Debate thread...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×