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Riders of Rohan Pre-Order


Talisman
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This always happens when any kind of update gets announced: people who've already largely gone off playing LOTRO enthusiastically list the reasons why it will be no good. The rest of us who still play must keep calm and make a sensible purchasing decision on which features of the update we want and how we want to pay for it.

I think I've got my decision now: wait 'til much nearer the release. Then, if it's still described as it is now, buy the base edition with money and get the extra bag later with TPs. That decision might change any time up to purchase. Other people will want other parts or none, and come to a different decision.

I know that LOTRO has bugs now and I'm under no illusion that the update will fix them all or contain no new ones. I also know that Turbine are in business to extract as much cash from me for as little work as possible. My judgement is that my enjoyment of being in Middle Earth far outweighs those annoyances. Again, others might make a different decision.

In the meantime, it's not worth just speculating about how terrible a swindle it will be or how small and buggy the content will turn out. At least, for true LOTRO fans it isn't worth it, and the banner at the top of my screen right now says those are the people this forum is for.

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This always happens when any kind of update gets announced: people who've already largely gone off playing LOTRO enthusiastically list the reasons why it will be no good. The rest of us who still play must keep calm and make a sensible purchasing decision on which features of the update we want and how we want to pay for it.

I think I've got my decision now: wait 'til much nearer the release. Then, if it's still described as it is now, buy the base edition with money and get the extra bag later with TPs. That decision might change any time up to purchase. Other people will want other parts or none, and come to a different decision.

I know that LOTRO has bugs now and I'm under no illusion that the update will fix them all or contain no new ones. I also know that Turbine are in business to extract as much cash from me for as little work as possible. My judgement is that my enjoyment of being in Middle Earth far outweighs those annoyances. Again, others might make a different decision.

In the meantime, it's not worth just speculating about how terrible a swindle it will be or how small and buggy the content will turn out. At least, for true LOTRO fans it isn't worth it, and the banner at the top of my screen right now says those are the people this forum is for.

Suprisingly I have actually started playing LOTRO again recently, in SWTOR at the moment I'm only really logging on for the guilds weekly raids so in my in between time I am back to playing LOTRO again. I will admit I am enjoying it, it is still for the most part a very good game and imho offers a different atmosphere than your average MMO. So no, I'm not bashing RoR because I have gone off LOTRO, I actually still enjoy most of it.

For me the most shocking aspect of all this is that they seem to have learnt nothing from the RoI mess, indeed I can only assume that sales were good and they got away with that rip off so well they have decided to see if they can get away with it again but this time increase the price. Honestly compare this expansion to the upcoming Rift or WoW expansion content and then compare the prices. I'm not going to buy this, if come September I am still playing I may consider some TP purchase or something.

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Well we really have to withhold judgement until we see how big a deal mounted combat is.

Might be awesome.

Might be lame.

Might be too buggy to tell either way :D

I'm plumping for lame & buggy. ;)

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What's hilarious is many of these people keep posting the quoted comment about "the volome of ROR when compared to ROI". To Mr. Aron Campbell or whateverthehellhisnameis...... ROI was overpriced too for the amount of content that was given in it. Basing the pricing off of ROI comparison is laughable at best.

I think this is exactly what we're seeing: They made RoI overpriced, it sold like crazy (because it was the first expansion in 2 years and the first for a lot of F2P-ers, not because RoI was awesome, but as usual they can't see THAT in their numbers) and now they've got an expansion that probably took them considerably more work (systems like Mounted Combat have been in preparation for a while). There's no way they could justify a similar pricing as RoI, so they had to go above it and they like $10 increments and ended up at $40 for the base version.

The legendary is build up the same way: $40 for RoR, 1000 TPs for the bag, 1000 TPs for the crystal, 2000 TPs for the horse, some quests... that's worth at least 5000 TPs, so a $30 surcharge is a good deal right!

I think it's visible in the €-prices: Under normal circumstances the legendary should cost about € 67 ($70 = €56 + 2% exchange costs + 19% VAT), while they sell it for € 65, in other words they've got slightly less profit margin on it than on the USD one! The only way the higher-ups at Turbine signed off on that is if the marketing people told them "Hey look, we can't sell it for € 69. It has to be perceived as being € 60-ish and not € 70-ish, otherwise we're pricing ourselves out of the market."

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For me the most shocking aspect of all this is that they seem to have learnt nothing from the RoI mess, indeed I can only assume that sales were good and they got away with that rip off so well they have decided to see if they can get away with it again but this time increase the price.

You can also interpret it the other way round. They have seen the cheaply priced RoI expansion sell fewer copies than expected. Then they have figured that those who did buy are hardcore people who are for whatever reason stuck or willing to stay with their game. So a higher price on the next expansion is clearly the way to go.

Especially if it is right before a financial quarter end :D

With a little less cynicism (but not irony, I think that is how the higher price comes together) I have to point out that they did learn one thing: if you have to release the expansion on a certain date and the instances might not work right, don't release the instances with the expansion. It doesn't do anybody any good. Question is what is their expectation to fix them, given they never came around to fix our little dragon. But I guess maybe the only hacker there who can fix these things is already working on the new toys.

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This always happens when any kind of update gets announced: people who've already largely gone off playing LOTRO enthusiastically list the reasons why it will be no good. The rest of us who still play must keep calm and make a sensible purchasing decision on which features of the update we want and how we want to pay for it.

I think I've got my decision now: wait 'til much nearer the release. Then, if it's still described as it is now, buy the base edition with money and get the extra bag later with TPs. That decision might change any time up to purchase. Other people will want other parts or none, and come to a different decision.

I know that LOTRO has bugs now and I'm under no illusion that the update will fix them all or contain no new ones. I also know that Turbine are in business to extract as much cash from me for as little work as possible. My judgement is that my enjoyment of being in Middle Earth far outweighs those annoyances. Again, others might make a different decision.

In the meantime, it's not worth just speculating about how terrible a swindle it will be or how small and buggy the content will turn out. At least, for true LOTRO fans it isn't worth it, and the banner at the top of my screen right now says those are the people this forum is for.

For those of us who want very badly to play and several times a week give over and log in out of love for the game, all we HAVE is speculation because Turbine is completely against being forthright and honest. They purposely are vague, dishonest-covering it up with "accidental" giving of information, and completely avoid all direct questions. And most of this is because they're too scared of being forthright because their words fail when the content launches-often. It's just too hard to give them money when you're blind or misled as to what you get, even tho many of us WANT to give them money because of love for the game/IP. They make things very difficult for us. At least me at any rate.

Yes, I'm waiting too, but I would RATHER have that legendary package. Cept it IS over priced compared to other expansions, in Lotro and other games, and even then we never know when the information on it will be correct(ed). People are already mad about having bought it on the information that the later instance cluster would be included...

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It seems Turbine is another company destined to fail in the gaming industry. Not only didn't they learn from their past exploits, but they could also look at EA too at how they have missed targets on all recent titles (DA2, ME3, BF and efven SWTOR).

Why is this?

Well the entire VG industry is down 27% in sales YoY. Companies blame it on the economy, but when the media did some research with the customer base it was a different story - VG industry customers are increasingly feeling like they are being ripped off by these gaming companies. The most cited example - BS DLC available on Day One of product launches, obvious features being removed from games so they can be sold separately (sounds a lot like the Turbine scumbags doesn't it?), etc.

Turbine deserves at this point to go out of the MMO business. Which I personally believe they are considering they are looking for 50 developers so they must be working on something else because it sure as hell isn't their MMO titles. Or maybe it is just that no good developers want to work for such a PoS company like Turbine for fear it would hurt their careers.

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I have a few of my own theories as to why Turbine have charged so much for this expansion:

1. They saw the cost of WoW's expansion and thought 'if they can get away with that, maybe we can too'. They ignored the difference in content size though.

2. They are short on figures for this quarterly and thought it was best to make a huge cost. They didn't think to include TP because they're also thinking ahead and don't want people to be able to use TP which they would see as given to them for 'free', not included in the expansion cost.

3. They realised their mistake with F2P. If a VIP buys an expansion, they don't need to really pay a sub anymore. They get to play the expansion content on premium because they've bought it already. This means Turbine lose subs when they release an expansion and this huge price is their attempt to combat this. Updates don't really help because again it's a small one off purchase.

4. They're just greedy s.o.b's.

5. They're incompetent and don't think about the consequences of their actions.

6. They act like they're retarded but they're actually thinking way ahead and this will mean any future expansions that come with the usual expectations (lots of content, instances, classes, etc) will be seen to be more amazing than they are because they're compared to past scam expansions.

It could be any and all of these.

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I went into the pre-order page fully expecting to buy whichever package had the most features, just like I had done with two accounts for Moria, Mirkwood & Isengard. It's Rohan afterall, we've been eagerly awaiting Rohan forever. Then I saw the prices and list of features and said "What the heck?". Instead of buying, I went to the forums to get more information and my brain about exploded. For the first time in 5 years of playing I'm seriously evaluating whether I'm going to continue playing or hang it up. Sure, I've been upset a lot of the store changes, buggy content, lack of content, horrible customer service and lag; but I've never been this disappointed with Turbine before.

Moria Expansion $30-$50 (Collectors Edition was physical and included a map and one ring replica) - Two new classes, legendary item system, Watcher raid, six 'radiance' 6-man instances, Forgotten Treasury 6-man, complete revamp of the combat system, 10 levels, quests.

Mirkwood Expansion $20-$30 (was cheaper due to smaller size) - Skirmish system, BG raid, one 6-man instance, three 3-man instances, major updates to the legendary item system and combat systems, mounts as skills, 5 levels, quests.

Isengard Expansion $30-$50 - Draigoch raid, major changes to the combat systems (removed stat caps), 10 levels, quests.

Riders of Rohan Expansion $40-$70 - Mounted combat system, 10 levels, quests.

It seems like we're getting less and less with each expansion & now we're being charged more for it. LOTRO Producer Aaron "Rowan" Campbell said that end-game content will include Fishing. Is that really their idea of an end-game? Apparently so, since there will be no instances at release and while an Instance Cluster has been confirmed for a future update there has been no mention of a Raid.

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And the most stupid part of allllll this is....so many people would GLADLY give their money if only they'd get their money's worth. OMG!!!!

Right.

$70 once a year is nothing compared to other hobbies.

I just don't like being strongarmed. Make me want to spend the money. Don't hold the LotR license and my characters hostage and demand ransom.

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Right.

$70 once a year is nothing compared to other hobbies.

I just don't like being strongarmed. Make me want to spend the money. Don't hold the LotR license and my characters hostage and demand ransom.

Exactly! I'll easily drop $70 for a nice dinner on a Friday night or a few hours a nice golf course. It's a relatively cheap form of entertainment, but I HATE feeling like I'm being ripped off. Give me something worth $70 and I'll gladly hand over $70, but don't give me something worth $40 and charge me $70.

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Full agreement. It was my 21st recently so I got a fair amount of money as a gift, so the £45 wouldn't break the bank. I'd just prefer to spend £45 on something worth that amount. They might as well just be trying to sell me a bic biro for £45.

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http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?&postid=6219804#post6219804

""There are no plans to release an instance cluster simultaneously with the expansion. However, an instance cluster is planned for release in a following update."

We will be releasing an instance cluster after the update comes out. However, we have not discussed the pricing of the cluster at this time. The mention of the cluster being free to players who have purchased Rohan was incorrect, and that's what we have removed. There is no instance cluster coming out simultaneously with the expansion.

We will be discussing the pricing of the instance cluster at a later time.

Not that we really need any more confirmation but I read that as its almost certain the future instance cluster will not be included in the RoR price. In that case then this expansion is just an instance free quest pack and some mounted combat (and fishing!)

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It seems like we're getting less and less with each expansion & now we're being charged more for it. LOTRO Producer Aaron "Rowan" Campbell said that end-game content will include Fishing. Is that really their idea of an end-game? Apparently so, since there will be no instances at release and while an Instance Cluster has been confirmed for a future update there has been no mention of a Raid.

I'd be willing to bet that this is because they have lost many subscribers since going F2P as a result of their BS shenanigans so now they need to charge more to make the same amount of money they did before. Of course, every little screw turn instead of making them money probably is costing them more and more subs.

Of course, it may also be that shut down is planned for the game so they are going to milk every last cent out of the remaining suckers players before closing it down.

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Of course, it may also be that shut down is planned for the game so they are going to milk every last cent out of the remaining suckers players before closing it down.

Thats what I've been wondering the last couple of days. Once the rot of the f2p model hit, it can only spread. It may work in any new games, and it may be working well with D&D. But to change a game as important as LOTRO was just extreme, imo. I just think too many people who play are more emotionally invested to the point this crap they pull affects them more than other games. So many long term players leave each year since f2p started. Could be too that they've been informed of no renewal on their license? The whole company just seems, massively bungled lately. Not being able to figure out and fix bugs and lags, not even be able to post correct information about a major expansion, way out there over pricing, the list goes on and on...I def think something is up...or down, however you look at it.

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Their license runs until 2014, which would be good for one more expansion after RoR. After that it's uncertain. Might be Turbine already knows for sure it won't be renewed so they have no reason to try to improve the game at this point.

http://www.lotro.com/news/pressreleases/130-turbine-and-tolkien-enterprises-extend-relationship

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Their license runs until 2014, which would be good for one more expansion after RoR. After that it's uncertain. Might be Turbine already knows for sure it won't be renewed so they have no reason to try to improve the game at this point.

http://www.lotro.com/news/pressreleases/130-turbine-and-tolkien-enterprises-extend-relationship

As long as they can pay for the extension my guess is they will get it. Middle Earth Enterprises is only interested in making money, the quality of the games is not something they really care about. Just look at some of the games that have been released in the past few years

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I'd be willing to bet that this is because they have lost many subscribers since going F2P as a result of their BS shenanigans so now they need to charge more to make the same amount of money they did before.

I'm thinking that they're trying to make the cluster a VIP item with a fairly high TP price to persuade people to start paying for VIP again, since they've botched the pricing so badly by giving away everything for free.

As things are today, once someone hits level 40, they can drop VIP, buy RoI Legendary on sale for $25, use the RoI bonus points to buy Great River, buy RoR on sale for $20 on Sep 6, spend $50 on a decent TP pack sale, and get everything but the expansions for the next three years. Why would anyone pay $300 to rent the next three years of content, when they can buy it for $100?

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I'm thinking that they're trying to make the cluster a VIP item with a fairly high TP price to persuade people to start paying for VIP again, since they've botched the pricing so badly by giving away everything for free.

As things are today, once someone hits level 40, they can drop VIP, buy RoI Legendary on sale for $25, use the RoI bonus points to buy Great River, buy RoR on sale for $20 on Sep 6, spend $50 on a decent TP pack sale, and get everything but the expansions for the next three years. Why would anyone pay $300 to rent the next three years of content, when they can buy it for $100?

True about the pricing, most people I know have either lifetime or premium because of it. The one big question the remains though is if VIP is still valuable enough to them to make people want to get it, or that they simply try to recuperate the losses F2P-style by charging everyone twice: for the expansion AND for the instances. They won't really care if you pay $100/year for VIP or $100/year on expansions and updates as long as there isn't anything new in the VIP package.

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They should care... VIP is steady income. Freemium-style is splurge and never pay again if possible. They really ought to do it so that if you're VIP, you shouldn't even have to WORRY about the points and unlocking stuff. That's what VIP is for, convenience. But ok, they obviously hired 'marketers' who know better.

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""There are no plans to release an instance cluster simultaneously with the expansion. However, an instance cluster is planned for release in a following update."

We will be releasing an instance cluster after the update comes out. However, we have not discussed the pricing of the cluster at this time. The mention of the cluster being free to players who have purchased Rohan was incorrect, and that's what we have removed. There is no instance cluster coming out simultaneously with the expansion.

We will be discussing the pricing of the instance cluster at a later time.

Wow.

Well, I'm not surprised it is Celestrata that clarifies the situation, I've always though she was a fairly honest CM, albeit constrained by what her bosses let her say. Also, I can see Rick assigning her the duty of breaking the bad news to players.

All dislike for Turbine aside, you have to admit this is a big red flag, folks. Turbine is not including the instances in the purchase price for RoR? Last year at least you got them if you bought RoI for cash, but now everyone will have to buy the instance cluster separately? This makes it clear that Turbine is selling as much as possible to get money every quarter, to make the game look as healthy as possible to WB.

LOTRO must be in some dire financial straights for Turbine to head down this path. Enjoy the game while it lasts, because while I used to think they would extend the license to 2017 at least, it's looking increasingly like Turbine may not even make it that far. Mordor? The game may never make it there, and if it does, the game will end shortly thereafter.

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