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Turbine announce Player Council application process & rules

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That is true Mr Crell, but since when has the wider LOTRO community started to think logically?

Controversial problem + wilfully ignorant group of people + knee jerk tabloid headline = Restless lynch mob looking for scapegoat

Yes, that's why I think cooler heads will prevail. At the end of the day, if you think you're not able to cope with the "pressure" of being on the Council, I would advise against applying. For me, being part of this is not a situation that comes with any pressure whatsoever. It's a video game at the end of the day. Something to do for relaxation. For me, pressure is when you've got about 20 minutes to fix something, working for the Council's IT department, and it's in the Council chambers and there's going to be a full council meeting there in 20 minutes time. Happened to me 3 times while working for Wigan Council, and a colleague about 5 times during my tenure there. It was never the same issue either.

I'm giving this whole thing some continued thought. I don't think it's a decision(whether to apply or not)that should be taken without due consideration first.

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  • Assist the Community Team in identifying suggestions and recommendations from the community that match the goals set for the Council.
  • Make suggestions and recommendations in accordance with goals set for the council by the LOTRO Team.

What exactly do they mean by "goals set for the Council"?

If the Council is going to represent the community, the council itself should set the subject and tone of the discussion. But if Turbine is setting those goals, this sounds more like a fancy name for a focused beta test rather than something meant to represent the community as a whole.

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And what exactly do they mean by "goals set for the Council"?

If the Council is going to represent the community, the council itself should set the subject and tone of the discussion. But if Turbine is setting those goals, this sounds more like a fancy name for a focused beta test rather than something meant to represent the community as a whole.

I'll have a giggle if one of the goals is, "Read the suggestions forum, collect the ideas therein, and present them to us."

Side thought about the Council: since the recent dev chat basically said, "We're not doing anything new for PvP, ever," is it really worth having PvP-focused players on the Council?

Mind you, I'm not trying to exclude creep mains or freeps who focus on PvP, as they definitely should be represented, but if there's nothing new coming down the pipe for PvP, do you really need a player to tell you, "Please try to keep things balanced. Adjust creep power when freeps get new LIs, armor, and jewelry. Don't allow PvE-focused changes to bleed over into PvP and vice versa."

(Sadly, perhaps that is needed. :P)

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Main point of player council is imho "to give players something to look for". Hope, engagement, good PR. To recreate this feeling some players felt when freemium came - that it will be rebirth of Lotro. Of course on smaller scale. That things translate i.e on pre-order numbers. I would not expect too much. Not because they won' listen, but because won't be able to deliver.

Yup, that was back in late 1998 when Vivendi still owned the game. That beta (only a handful of buildings and a few mobs) lasted only a few months before they officially announced the game and invited testers from the general public.

You speak about Middle-Earth Online?

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Well we could always put it to the test. Let's nominate someone from here and see if they make the A team

Almost all of us are here because we care about the game. We might be upset but we bother because we care about the game.

It is a perfectly sensible thing for us to all nominate somebody from here for the council. While we won't know whether that goes through it would go a long way for the credibility of the council if they had a lotrocommunity representative in there. I wouldn't rule out that Turbine goes for it if it's the right person.

The fluffy rules work to our advantage because Turbine can feel free to ignore some of the more bogus infractions on the official forum.

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Main point of player council is imho "to give players something to look for".

Agreed. Given the lack of enthusiasm over everything else they've announced lately, it seems they're trying to build that back up with the promise of inside information and special treatment.

You speak about Middle-Earth Online?

Yup. The game mechanics and setting are practically unrecognizable (fourth age, open-world PvP, perma death, etc), but there's a surprising amount of Vivendi landscape content intact even today (much of The Shire and parts of Ered Luin).

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Well, I am considering applying. I do have to think about it tho.

(and probably increase my activity in LOTRO, I've not been too active since mid january)

I haven't got a problem with an NDA.

I've been in a few betas, a few for LOTRO, and some for other games. I am not troubled by the concept of not discussing every minute detail of council business to non-council members.

This is actually more open than a beta NDA, where you are not allowed to tell people you're in beta. If they're going to broadcast who the Council Members are, and part of the responsibility of the Council Members is to help draft reports on council activities to the Community, I feel this is not as restrictive as normal NDAs.

Troll, Obviously, they want people who are active. I mean, that was always going to be a given. It's not a surprise that they are not wanting members of the gaming media either, there'd always be a greater risk for a leak that way.

I know that there are a few here who aren't willing to wait and see how this plays out, but for me, I'm always going to keep an open mind about this until I see evidence of it being just what Troll called it, "a sham".

You got my vote!

I do think that it would be interesting to have a representative from this forum on the council. They can call us malcontents all they want, but most of us here are willing to listen and when turbine does do something worthy of praise we always give them the credit they are due.

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You got my vote!

I do think that it would be interesting to have a representative from this forum on the council. They can call us malcontents all they want, but most of us here are willing to listen and when turbine does do something worthy of praise we always give them the credit they are due.

Indeed. Credit where it's merited. Constructive criticism when it's due. Some of the hatred and vitriol towards the certain members of the Community Team is at an unacceptable level, in my opinion. The childish name calling and all that. It's not achieving anything apart from further cement Turbine's view that the only inhabitants on Lotrocommunity.com are those on the fringes, the raving lunatics, with their conspiracy theories and inconvenient truths.

I get that some of you have had personally really bad experiences with regards to the forum moderation over there. I empathize. It feels like being frozen out. Having gone through that when in high school, I certainly know how frustrating, aggravating and demoralizing it is.

But, and I think this was Raedwulf's suggestion at one point regarding something else, can we please change the record, at least where the name-calling is concerned?

Personal attacks are not acceptable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

If we're supposed to be the beacon of hope forum, we need to be more mature.

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Unless there are strong people on the council, i doubt much will change or happen.

If there are strong people on the Council, I suspect they will be excused from it.

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Indeed. Credit where it's merited. Constructive criticism when it's due. Some of the hatred and vitriol towards the certain members of the Community Team is at an unacceptable level, in my opinion. The childish name calling and all that. It's not achieving anything apart from further cement Turbine's view that the only inhabitants on Lotrocommunity.com are those on the fringes, the raving lunatics, with their conspiracy theories and inconvenient truths.

I get that some of you have had personally really bad experiences with regards to the forum moderation over there. I empathize. It feels like being frozen out. Having gone through that when in high school, I certainly know how frustrating, aggravating and demoralizing it is.

But, and I think this was Raedwulf's suggestion at one point regarding something else, can we please change the record, at least where the name-calling is concerned?

Personal attacks are not acceptable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

If we're supposed to be the beacon of hope forum, we need to be more mature.

Certainly you're not the only one who feels that way. We can't really expect more from a certain element...calling names and spewing venom is all they're capable of...but thankfully there really is a minimum of that here. Sai MueR keeps a careful watch on us, probably because he knows what'll happen if the less classy element is left unchecked. ;)

I hadn't really given this council much thought, but I'm interested enough now to try to get my LOTRO client to work again. We shall see.

:)

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Indeed. Credit where it's merited. Constructive criticism when it's due. Some of the hatred and vitriol towards the certain members of the Community Team is at an unacceptable level, in my opinion. The childish name calling and all that. It's not achieving anything apart from further cement Turbine's view that the only inhabitants on Lotrocommunity.com are those on the fringes, the raving lunatics, with their conspiracy theories and inconvenient truths.

I get that some of you have had personally really bad experiences with regards to the forum moderation over there. I empathize. It feels like being frozen out. Having gone through that when in high school, I certainly know how frustrating, aggravating and demoralizing it is.

But, and I think this was Raedwulf's suggestion at one point regarding something else, can we please change the record, at least where the name-calling is concerned?

Personal attacks are not acceptable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

If we're supposed to be the beacon of hope forum, we need to be more mature.

Turbine and their devs MUST be under constant pressure. They MUST be brought to answer certain things and MUST be monitored all the time by this council. I see you already start to be very diplomatic which for me is very dissapointing to see.

I do not approve name calling, no but your tone already seems toned down...why? Are you afraid that you might say something that Sap or someone else will find as unfit for a player applying for their council? Are you afraid you will not be elected?

Now i really wan't to see what good will become of this council if people are already afraid of giving criticism towards Turbine.

Be honest please, do you wan't something changed in the communication between players and Turbine? You know that this will not happen by saying how nice Turbine's devs are... I don't wan't you to call them names but for example i would wan't you to every day tell them "we still have the stop and go lag, please fix it" over and over again.

I guess you would be removed after 3 days but at least you could say you tried but Turbine cannot be reformed ;)

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Indeed. Credit where it's merited. Constructive criticism when it's due. Some of the hatred and vitriol towards the certain members of the Community Team is at an unacceptable level, in my opinion. The childish name calling and all that. It's not achieving anything apart from further cement Turbine's view that the only inhabitants on Lotrocommunity.com are those on the fringes, the raving lunatics, with their conspiracy theories and inconvenient truths.

I get that some of you have had personally really bad experiences with regards to the forum moderation over there. I empathize. It feels like being frozen out. Having gone through that when in high school, I certainly know how frustrating, aggravating and demoralizing it is.

But, and I think this was Raedwulf's suggestion at one point regarding something else, can we please change the record, at least where the name-calling is concerned?

Personal attacks are not acceptable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

If we're supposed to be the beacon of hope forum, we need to be more mature.

Turbine and their devs MUST be under constant pressure. They MUST be brought to answer certain things and MUST be monitored all the time by this council. I see you already start to be very diplomatic which for me is very dissapointing to see.

I do not approve name calling, no but your tone already seems toned down...why? Are you afraid that you might say something that Sap or someone else will find as unfit for a player applying for their council? Are you afraid you will not be elected?

Now i really wan't to see what good will become of this council if people are already afraid of giving criticism towards Turbine.

Be honest please, do you wan't something changed in the communication between players and Turbine? You know that this will not happen by saying how nice Turbine's devs are... I don't wan't you to call them names but for example i would wan't you to every day tell them "we still have the stop and go lag, please fix it" over and over again.

I guess you would be removed after 3 days but at least you could say you tried but Turbine cannot be reformed ;)

I think you completely misunderstood my point, Anglion.

I was pointing out that the personal attacks on Sapience and Celestrata has to stop.

You can still call them out on things to your heart's content, as long as it's done in a mature fashion.

But what I've seen them called on these forums, it really doesn't achieve anything but exactly that which I said, that it further cements the view in Turbine's eyes, this is a fringe community. I know we are not that. But it's too easy for Turbine to use that excuse with this forum, when you look at some of the comments. Which is why I'm trying to get us away from that level of personal abuse.

If we conduct ourselves properly, in a mature fashion, without the need to resort to personal attacks, it looks better for us.

Also, my point about the forum moderation is also something I stand by. I've not experienced it, but I know some of you have.

I haven't toned down anything, as there was nothing to tone down to start off with.

If I did get elected, which I doubt, btw, performance and security issues are high on my list of priorities for finding a solution to.

But it's not as easy as, "The lag is still there, go fix it.".

No, this has the potential for Turbine to turn over a new leaf, as regards communication between Developer and Player Community, I sincerely hope it's a genuine attempt at it, and that the Player Council will filled with lots of differing positions, or it won't achieve what it needs to achieve. But to start off with outright cynicism isn't the right position either. Cautious optimism, I think, is where we need to be at.

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Unless the council has a top-notch programmer who decides to fix the lag for free.............. not expecting much.

Call me cynical, but my guess is that the infamous council is gonna be used mostly to pre-test new Store items and their pricing to avoid more public backlashes like recent ones over high costs of stuff.

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But what I've seen them called on these forums, it really doesn't achieve anything but exactly that which I said, that it further cements the view in Turbine's eyes, this is a fringe community.

The people on the official forums who call us a fringe community are often the same people who have the attitude of "I don't have lag so you're lying", "it's your responsibility to fact check contradictory statements by Turbine", or "your playstyle is wrong and here's my 15 year Turbine resume to prove it".

Somehow, I'm not convinced that they're going to view a lack of personal attacks as sufficient proof that we aren't a fringe community.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't discourage baseless insults and personal attacks, but they aren't exactly the defining characteristic of the community, except by those who reason that if one person says something and isn't insta-banned, we must all wholeheartedly support it.

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I think you completely misunderstood my point, Anglion.

I was pointing out that the personal attacks on Sapience and Celestrata has to stop.

You can still call them out on things to your heart's content, as long as it's done in a mature fashion.

But what I've seen them called on these forums, it really doesn't achieve anything but exactly that which I said, that it further cements the view in Turbine's eyes, this is a fringe community. I know we are not that. But it's too easy for Turbine to use that excuse with this forum, when you look at some of the comments. Which is why I'm trying to get us away from that level of personal abuse.

If we conduct ourselves properly, in a mature fashion, without the need to resort to personal attacks, it looks better for us.

Also, my point about the forum moderation is also something I stand by. I've not experienced it, but I know some of you have.

I haven't toned down anything, as there was nothing to tone down to start off with.

If I did get elected, which I doubt, btw, performance and security issues are high on my list of priorities for finding a solution to.

But it's not as easy as, "The lag is still there, go fix it.".

No, this has the potential for Turbine to turn over a new leaf, as regards communication between Developer and Player Community, I sincerely hope it's a genuine attempt at it, and that the Player Council will filled with lots of differing positions, or it won't achieve what it needs to achieve. But to start off with outright cynicism isn't the right position either. Cautious optimism, I think, is where we need to be at.

You would be a very good politician i have to admit...

We are what we are and we will never be as Turbine would like us to be, fan boys saying nice things. Never before i have seen you saying that we should start "behaving". I see it now when you apply for the council while beeing aware that Sap and company are watching these boards. I support beeing mature and keeping a constant watch over Turbine's doings can also be done in a mature way.

I hope you will make it for the council but as a member that will be constantly vigilant to what Turbine is doing and ready to protest out loud if they do things in a bad way. If you will be so diplomatic the council will become what we "cynics" think it will be - nothing meaningful.

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Many people here have said that while you can pull up Turbine for things they have said or done, there is no need to make personal attacks against anyone, that includes Turbine employees, players or forum posters. As soon as you make personal attacks it is very easy for those that dont like people being critical of Turbine to dismiss your argument and this entire forum

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Whilst I'm in complete agreement with that and have been one to ask for namecalling to stop in the past, I also agree with what Stavro said:

Somehow, I'm not convinced that they're going to view a lack of personal attacks as sufficient proof that we aren't a fringe community.

This community is deemed fringe as we're actually critical of Turbine and don't give them a free pass on nearly everything.

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Funny, because the time i lagged (stayed) subscribed between u6 and September 2012 was quite the mother of all free passes.

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Btw, Sapience has said they're struggling to narrow it down to 50 and that they "might just increase the Council by 50%".

And to look in your mailbox tomorrow.

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Who wants to bet that we will see not a single name we recognize from the forums that has ever spoken out about the game?

And, I am guessing, at least 10 fanboy or girls who we do know from the forums will be on the list.

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Who wants to bet that we will see not a single name we recognize from the forums that has ever spoken out about the game?

And, I am guessing, at least 10 fanboy or girls who we do know from the forums will be on the list.

I suspect there will be 1 or 2 outspoken people on the council at first to give the appearance that Turbine is interested in all view points. How long these people actually last when they feel that there presence is only for show is another matter.

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They don't have the guts to do that (have any dissenters). And Sapience looks down on almost everyone. He can't actually believe anyone critical of Turbine would have a valid point. He seems to think everyone except the positive posters just want attention.

The council is just a silly dream for Turbine that will never do much. It is obvious what could be done to improve the game - but Turbine cannot do it without spending more money on the game.

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