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LordVorontur

Player Council members list.

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So dumb - people like Darkcountry saying to email them with what you want for the game. As if Turbine would give the council to make broad decisions. For some reasons this bothers me a lot. It is just people egos. Messages will only help them feel more important. The council is not set up for members to be giving ideas on behalf of players - we have all the ideas we need on the forums. IMO the council can best give feedback on what Turbine has already decided or is thinking to do.

Note, I am not saying it is lame of all members who said they can recieve message. Just the ones who said send them to me, we will have a discussion, etc. and I will take the ideas to Turbine. There is no indication that this is correct. What - is Turbine suddenly going to stop reading the forums? Why do they need a council member to tell people what they want. And of course, there is 0 chance Drkcntry would put forth an idea he disagreed with to Turbine. It is a joke to pretend you will represent the players. I love the idea of council members representing players just be sharing their own views on the game, coming from different perspectives.

Well said. I think I'm gonna have to stop reading anything pertaining the council due to many of the misinformed reactions going on and the budding pretentiousness from those selected. :P Suddenly some new "politicians" popping up. :P

Not sure if this is the right place but when will you know or who will be representing the "Raiders" of Lotro?

Rather than QQ'ing about it any further who can I/we work with to get our concerns raised?

I think Runesi is the best best from what I've read/heard.

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I think Runesi is the best best from what I've read/heard.

If T2C Orthanc is the benchmark then no, not me. I raid occasionally but I don't think occasional raiders are probably what lob is looking for.

I think though it may be better to look at the ~70 as a whole rather than keep looking for server representatives, no there may not be anyone from the top raiding kins on Snowbourn but there must be some "hardcore raiders" in the list?

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There's a lot of people on Snowbourn, Lob.

If Global has around 450 people on it(using this, because it did when I logged in earlier today), there are going to be people you don't know.

Also, we were selected, not elected. Elected would mean there was a vote somehow(I can't rule out there has been a vote of some sort at Turbine HQ, of course), whereas none of us have been voted for to the best of my knowledge.

There are plenty of Raiders/PvMPers on the list of Council members. They've selected a balanced council, I would hope, one that has all styles of play covered.

Also, to say the least, I've not got any agendas other than improving performance, security, and getting them to implement Galuhad's Kinship Revamp Proposal.

Anything else I've got an open mind about.

I will try my hardest to bring attention to all good suggestions, as that is one of the remits of the Council members.

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I have to say I don't know if anyone on the council can raise ANY concerns at all. We don't know that Turbine is asking council members to give input. Just some council members are saying I will represent you blah blah.

It may just be that Turbine brings up certain things and asks for input. It may be possible that open concerns can be "brought up" by council members but we really don't know that. I can't see Turbine doing any thing major differently because of the council.

DO you really think Turbine is saying "we want you to tell us what to do with the game" or "we know we have problems and we want you to tell us what to do"? Isn't it more likely Turbine will say we are going to do this, please give us your feedback?

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This is what they claim we are going to be doing.

Members of the Player Council shall …

  • Serve for the calendar year in which they are elected. Participate in private chats and other scheduled events with the LOTRO Team.
  • Provide feedback to the LOTRO Team as requested.
  • Comment, from time to time, on aspects or elements of upcoming changes before they have reached an Alpha state and prior to their testing on the Palantir private preview server.
  • Participate, from time to time, in the Palantir Private Preview Program (and be subject to the rules of that program as well).
  • Assist the Community Team in identifying suggestions and recommendations from the community that match the goals set for the Council.
  • Make suggestions and recommendations in accordance with goals set for the council by the LOTRO Team.
  • Participate in and help design focused feedback surveys for the council and the general community.
  • From time to time, be asked to help draft a report on the council’s activities for publication to the entire community.
  • Recommend players to participate in the Small Council.
  • Be guaranteed access to all Beta tests during their term.
  • Be provided with a Turbine Point stipend on a quarterly basis.
  • Be provided a private discussion area for interacting with the LOTRO Team.
  • Courtesy invitations to player parties or other similar events that take place during their term. (travel and other expenses associated with these events are the responsibility of the individual).

The Small Council Shall…

  • Participate in a face to face meeting with the LOTRO Team and Turbine staff if asked. Location to be decided by Turbine. (Travel expenses to be provided by Turbine.)
  • Provide feedback to Turbine and the LOTRO Team on the performance of the Player Council.
  • Suggest changes, improvements, or revisions to the Player Council.

I think, it comes down to, what we believe the intention behind the Player Council is.

If it was a PR Stunt, I doubt me, Runesi or Stavro would be on there due to our association with these forums.

I've been very vocal during their security breach debacle, during the whole RoI false advertising fiasco, and during the whole debacle with RoR and the Instance Cluster.

If it's really their intention to improve communication and if the Council is supposed to be a sounding board for ideas, among other things, we've got to be given the chance, at least, to start doing just that.

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*snip*

'Be provided with a Turbine Point stipend on a quarterly basis.'

Woah, how much?

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No idea, last I checked, I hadn't received anything.

But I doubt it's that much, according to Sapience, it's not going to make anyone rich.

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There's a lot of people on Snowbourn, Lob.

If Global has around 450 people on it(using this, because it did when I logged in earlier today), there are going to be people you don't know.

Also, we were selected, not elected. Elected would mean there was a vote somehow(I can't rule out there has been a vote of some sort at Turbine HQ, of course), whereas none of us have been voted for to the best of my knowledge.

There are plenty of Raiders/PvMPers on the list of Council members. They've selected a balanced council, I would hope, one that has all styles of play covered.

Also, to say the least, I've not got any agendas other than improving performance, security, and getting them to implement Galuhad's Kinship Revamp Proposal.

Anything else I've got an open mind about.

I will try my hardest to bring attention to all good suggestions, as that is one of the remits of the Council members.

As i said it wasn't a dig, i've been on the server for 6 years and i've never come across any of you and i know a broad spectrum of players from many kinships.

Since you picked out the elected part and i thought someone might after i wrote it, your right it does mean "to be elected through the form of a vote" but it can also mean "Opt for or choose to do something" which you have.

I'm yet to see a Hardcore Raider in the list, i can see there will be decent support for the PVMP community but so far the Raiding side doesn't look good with people coming forward with little experience.

I agree Performance of the servers is poor, however i don't seen the mileage in Security (being down to the individual) and Kinship revamp, whilst its a nice idea i'd prefer new content.

Lob

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As i said it wasn't a dig, i've been on the server for 6 years and i've never come across any of you and i know a broad spectrum of players from many kinships.

Since you picked out the elected part and i thought someone might after i wrote it, your right it does mean "to be elected through the form of a vote" but it can also mean "Opt for or choose to do something" which you have.

I'm yet to see a Hardcore Raider in the list, i can see there will be decent support for the PVMP community but so far the Raiding side doesn't look good with people coming forward with little experience.

I agree Performance of the servers is poor, however i don't seen the mileage in Security (being down to the individual) and Kinship revamp, whilst its a nice idea i'd prefer new content.

Lob

There are several who says the lead raids quite often on that list.

There are also those that haven't been announced yet, we don't know who they are or where their main interest in the game lies.

Security, meaning the forum security. We've had months now of unsecured login.

We've also had the security breach.

It's not down to the individual when Turbine are not taking our security seriously.

New content is not just Raids. While I will always say Raiders should have development time spent on them, it's high time some was spent on revamping the Kinship system.

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This is what they claim we are going to be doing.

...

If it was a PR Stunt, I doubt me, Runesi or Stavro would be on there due to our association with these forums.

...

If it's really their intention to improve communication ...

"

  • Assist the Community Team in identifying suggestions and recommendations from the community that match the goals set for the Council.
  • Make suggestions and recommendations in accordance with goals set for the council by the LOTRO Team."

This quote in no way says members will provide recommendations on anything (any idea or game aspect) to Turbine. It is carefully phrased ("goals" set by Turbine) to basically say you can only bring recommendations on the topics (goals) that we set. It is clearly limited and not open at all. Whoever wrote that was careful not to say "bring players ideas to Turbine" because they will not want most ideas - only ones about certain aspects they are working on. Turbine sets the goals! Turbine chooses which areas for suggestions they want.

I think this is not "just a PR stunt" but it is definitely about PR, and about getting help from some players. I am sure they want good PR from this. And of course you 3 would be on the council if it was mainly for PR. If I wanted good PR of course I would take critic, put them on a council, limit what they can make suggestions on, and bind them in a NDA.

I am not saying many good things cannot come from the council. But I seriously doubt the point of the council is to improve the game in any major way, or assist in making decisions on the direction or the game. Hopefully in small ways the council can improve pieces of the game.

I don't know if I am being clear. I don't think the council is just a trick, but I don't at all think Turbine wants input on any major change in the game. I don't think they at all want ideas on what major changes they should make. They just don't have the money to really improve the game, or make the things people do want (like better raids). Nothing will change this. Does anyone for a minute think the council means suddenly Turbine will spend more money on the game? We haven't seen them seriously invest in the game in the past 3 years. Compare their content work to Trion's in Rift. They seriously invested to make a great expansion. Turbine, it is always the minimum to get by, and they are always late and don't spend effort to catch enough bugs.

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There are several who says the lead raids quite often on that list.

There are also those that haven't been announced yet, we don't know who they are or where their main interest in the game lies.

Security, meaning the forum security. We've had months now of unsecured login.

We've also had the security breach.

It's not down to the individual when Turbine are not taking our security seriously.

New content is not just Raids. While I will always say Raiders should have development time spent on them, it's high time some was spent on revamping the Kinship system.

I've read the majority, like Yelk (Leader of Shock & Awe) has pointed out their casual at best. Some have barely seen much of the last 3 multi boss raids, i appreciate their effort to help but its not what the community is looking for.

Turbine will be bound by law to Penetration test there site and maintain certain standards of security, ultimately nothing is impenetrable. More security often brings more limitation to what the site can offer.

I agree content, extends past raids... but given some much of the content is recycled at the moment if it came down to new area / instances etc vs kinship revamp when the developers priorities were being decided i'd hope they'd go for the area/instances.

Anyway we could debate this till the cows come home, good luck with your goals I certainly hope they listen to the performance issues.

Lob

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The more I think about it the more I come to the opinion that Turbine need the council to work than we needed a council at all. Login numbers are falling and even new content doesnt seen to do much to change that. Communication is as bad as it gets and Turbine need to do something. The council could be their last chance to show they can listen to players because if it fails then who is going to listen to Turbine any longer.

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Turbine will be bound by law to Penetration test there site and maintain certain standards of security, ultimately nothing is impenetrable. More security often brings more limitation to what the site can offer.

For many months now, the forum login has been completely unencrypted. If you log in from an open wi-fi, work, an apartment, etc, anyone else on that network (or any ISP between your network and Turbine) can see your Lotro password in

Alone, this is a serious issue. But combined with the major password leak, the ongoing account server issues (the most recent being the bug that charged some people 10 times the monthly VIP fee), multiple maintenance downtimes each week with little to no explanation, etc, security is a very obvious problem that needs to be fixed ASAP.

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For many months now, the forum login has been completely unencrypted. If you log in from an open wi-fi, work, an apartment, etc, anyone else on that network (or any ISP between your network and Turbine) can see your Lotro password in

Alone, this is a serious issue. But combined with the major password leak, the ongoing account server issues (the most recent being the bug that charged some people 10 times the monthly VIP fee), multiple maintenance downtimes each week with little to no explanation, etc, security is a very obvious problem that needs to be fixed ASAP.

Exactly.

Not down to the individual at all.

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Surely confidential data sits on a secure server?

Lob

Exactly.

Not down to the individual at all.

Individual selects to use an open wi fi don't they? typically the risks of this are highlighted?

Lob

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Surely confidential data sits on a secure server?

Lob

Or so you'd think.

However, how secure is it if your login data is not secure?

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Or so you'd think.

However, how secure is it if your login data is not secure?

Suspect it'll be encrypted so 3 things can happen.

They login into the forum and post something using your account - raise ticket, GM deletes.

They login in game and delete your toon - raise ticket, GM gives it back.

They log into your account and change your password, raise ticket....

Somebody, somewhere in Turbine would of signed this risk off and they'll take accountability for it.

If the individual is dumb enough to use open wi fi for anything they consider to be sensitive then its down to them.

Its certainly an issue, but obviously not paramount importance for Turbine. Communication around what their doing each week is annoying though, bad or good it'd be nice to know.

Lob

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Individual selects to use an open wi fi don't they? typically the risks of this are highlighted?

It's not limited to wi-fi, it's any network with multiple computers.

Are you at work? Someone three floors away can see your password. Are you in an apartment? If your roommate doesn't have good antivirus, your password just got sent to a hacker. Are you on your smart phone in the middle of nowhere? The cell carrier, Turbine's ISP, and everyone in between can see it.

What can someone do with that password? They can buy TP, buy items from the store that are sellable for gold, and sell that gold. They get cash, and you get stuck with a large bill until you can convince Turbine to reverse the charges.

Encrypting the login form is not rocket surgery, it's a standard that has been in place for decades.

Whoever wrote that was careful not to say "bring players ideas to Turbine" because they will not want most ideas - only ones about certain aspects they are working on.

Except they did say "bring players ideas to Turbine".

http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/we-are-very-pleased-announce-lotro-player-council

"The council will work to bring outstanding suggestions from the larger community to our attention."

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It's not limited to wi-fi, it's any network with multiple computers.

Are you at work? Someone three floors away can see your password. Are you in an apartment? If your roommate doesn't have good antivirus, your password just got sent to a hacker. Are you on your smart phone in the middle of nowhere? The cell carrier, Turbine's ISP, and everyone in between can see it.

What can someone do with that password? They can buy TP, buy items from the store that are sellable for gold, and sell that gold. They get cash, and you get stuck with a large bill until you can convince Turbine to reverse the charges.

Encrypting the login form is not rocket surgery, it's a standard that has been in place for decades.

Except store items can't be sold for in game currency.

Lob

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Except store items can't be sold for in game currency.

The low level store-bought armor sells for 300-500 each piece. Hobbit giftboxes have a high chance of containing items that sell for 1-2g.

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If T2C Orthanc is the benchmark then no, not me. I raid occasionally but I don't think occasional raiders are probably what lob is looking for.

I think though it may be better to look at the ~70 as a whole rather than keep looking for server representatives, no there may not be anyone from the top raiding kins on Snowbourn but there must be some "hardcore raiders" in the list?

Ah sorry... seems I got my 'R' names mixed up. Seems it was Raven I was thinking of.. from that thread in the Raiding section anyway.

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It's not limited to wi-fi, it's any network with multiple computers.

Are you at work? Someone three floors away can see your password. Are you in an apartment? If your roommate doesn't have good antivirus, your password just got sent to a hacker. Are you on your smart phone in the middle of nowhere? The cell carrier, Turbine's ISP, and everyone in between can see it.

What can someone do with that password? They can buy TP, buy items from the store that are sellable for gold, and sell that gold. They get cash, and you get stuck with a large bill until you can convince Turbine to reverse the charges.

Encrypting the login form is not rocket surgery, it's a standard that has been in place for decades.

Except they did say "bring players ideas to Turbine".

http://www.lotro.com...-player-council

"The council will work to bring outstanding suggestions from the larger community to our attention."

I am not convinced. And do they really have a lack of good suggestions?

But then there is the fine print: :Make suggestions and recommendations in accordance with goals set ... by the LOTRO Team". So only suggestions and recommendations that meet goals set by Turbine?

Anyway - we will have to see. But clearly anyone with a brain (and enough money) could find simple ways to make the game much better - that Turbine has not done. There must be a reason, for example, Turbine is unwilling to put out enough group and raid content. It must be they are unwilling to spend enough money to make it. How would a suggestion related to this change anything? I can see suggestions related to loot systems helping to make things better though.

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I've read the majority, like Yelk (Leader of Shock & Awe) has pointed out their casual at best. Some have barely seen much of the last 3 multi boss raids, i appreciate their effort to help but its not what the community is looking for.

Yelk has pretty much nailed it in all of his posts. I understand that people don't want to feel like they're not good enough to represent the interests of progression raiders, but so far no one who has asserted himself as a raider qualifies, at least not by the (high) standards a number of us have set.

Yicky (Elendilmir) might be the closest that I've seen so far, but his kin hasn't been serious about progression raiding since the OD days, and even he himself says that his primary focus will be on improving PvMP.

Edit to add: Then again, it may not matter if there aren't any serious progression raiders on the Council, since there's no progression raid on the horizon anyway.

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But then there is the fine print: :Make suggestions and recommendations in accordance with goals set ... by the LOTRO Team". So only suggestions and recommendations that meet goals set by Turbine?

That depends on what they define as "goals". It might be that their goals are just a long-term roadmap, so they wouldn't accept suggestions like "make Numenor the next zone". At the other extreme, their goals could be a weekly topic like "what color should this store-exclusive cosmetic set be".

My suspicion is that their goals will be somewhere in between, and set by the individual devs in their respective threads/sub-forums. I.E, the burg dev might ask for new skills for mounted combat, the housing dev might ask for feedback on a new hook system, etc. Loose enough to allow meaningful input, but strict enough to keep it from becoming a free-for-all with arguments like "you should delete your suggestion because that will take dev time away from my suggestion".

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Hi

I'm a fairly new-ish player to LOTRO (started back in late 2012, but only recently came back due to not having internet for a few months),

I mostly just lurk the forums and only recently found out about this place.

I wanted to ask a question, since I'm an outsider (of a sort). Are people having more issues with the fact that the council was hand-picked, or is it because some portion of the player community is not represented (I see alot of posts on the official forums saying none of the council players are PvMP or "hardcore raiders")?

Or is there a different issue, like with certain players ( I saw a few posts in regard to one being a forum troll, and another where certain kinships were given an unfair advantage)?

Personally, I feel bad for those who were picked, since now every post or topic they make will now be under scrutiny.

Hehe sorry, this is probably an awkward way to introduce oneself, but I just wanted to get that off my chest :)

signed,

A person of little importance on Ladroval

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