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Bango

Banned from the Turbine Forum...

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That point is often accompanied by hostility, ill-will, and even hatred around here, so I can appreciate some readers' reluctance to jump in. When Turbine and its employees are consistently portrayed as an enemy, it's hard to imagine anything good will ever come out of the discussion.

I'm glad players have a soapbox where they can vent their frustrations, though.

One minor point: It's not us potraying them as the enemy, they're doing that just fine on their own.

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Tell you all something - I was quite shocked at the response from some of the posters to the (now deleted) thread posted on the official forum regarding my ban. The speed at which some people threw the accusation of troll certainly raised an eyebrow. I doubt they even bothered to visit this forum and read the details.

I do believe there are people, players / fans of lotro - call them what you will, who are desperate not to see their precious game and company through anything other than through rose-tinted specs. Other than that they're either too young to have experienced what people are really like, in which case they're going to be in for a shock, or are just plain gullible and stupid.

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Tell you all something - I was quite shocked at the response from some of the posters to the (now deleted) thread posted on the official forum regarding my ban. The speed at which some people threw the accusation of troll certainly raised an eyebrow. I doubt they even bothered to visit this forum and read the details.

I do believe there are people, players / fans of lotro - call them what you will, who are desperate not to see their precious game and company through anything other than through rose-tinted specs. Other than that they're either too young to have experienced what people are really like, in which case they're going to be in for a shock, or are just plain gullible and stupid.

It's a bit of a 'red pill' when you start to see those posters over there consistently slamming down any negative threads, mocking the OPs of threads they disagree with and just generally being ass-wipes. It's something you can't unsee. The more you look, the more you notice the fanboys doing the same old routine no matter what; shifting the blame to the players and defending Turbine with all their petty might.

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We cant be held responsible for peoples inability to acknowledge the mountain of evidence that is contained within this forum of Sapiences and Lotro's arrogance and absolute disdain for their customers. Never mind Mr.Paiz comparing Turbine customers to drug addicts who will accept any treatment to get their fix.

what did happen to Fernando Paiz anyway?

all I can find in the recent/current department, is what looks to be like a fake profile for him at in a position at Wallmart.

even the DDO forums are silent on the matter, no one seems to care what he has moved on to. is he still within Turbine? is he currently seeking work? does he have a new job?

would be interesting info to find out.

...

as to the matter of a forum were one can speak as an adult. yes the venting can certainly appear to an outsider to be a central theme, but that would be a VERY superficial assessment.

just looking at one recent threads stream of conciousness, started as a discussion of the lack of convention participation from Lotro, then just drifted into a discussion about junk food.

it wasn't an aggressive thread jack, but rather spontanious, everyone just seemed quite comfortable switching to levity.

i have only been here on this forum a short time & i've already enjoyed it more than the entire time over at the official forum. i have never felt at home there, or comfortable. nor do i remember anything particularily spontanious.

to be honest, the official forums are a bit of a pill & i have no desire to go through life sedated.

for all those new posters, showing up, welcome. this is definitely a quality of life improvement.

@ to Rainothon... did you see the responses Bango received from Turbine? even if it was a misunderstanding, does that look to you like acceptible official communication?

don't be so hasty to cast aside what is being said here. it is not said for lack of substance

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what did happen to Fernando Paiz anyway?

all I can find in the recent/current department, is what looks to be like a fake profile for him at in a position at Wallmart.

That's in Guatemala. His LinkedIn profile is somewhat sparse from a public view.

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That's in Guatemala. His LinkedIn profile is somewhat sparse from a public view.

yeah, i have accessed the details of his linked in profile, the one that actually belongs to him... and it hasn't recently updated to reflect the change at DDO. anyway, i started an independant thread about this subject so as not to detract from the discussion here, soo... :)

edited: the fake profile for wallmart is actually attributed to him, though there may be other FP's in Guatemala as well.

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@LasraelLarson The further Fernando Paiz is from any type of meaningful role in any organisation the better. He has some very interesting theories but horrific execution completely contradicting and undermining the reasons people play games.

I enjoyed the reasons why Turbine isnt attending conventions anymore and the natural progression to foods especially the chicago donut burger ^^. Although it doesnt help when your trying to watch your weight. These forums are a liberating breath of fresh air compared to the official forums.

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It never ceases to amaze me how many people simply discount this forum and it's posters and not realise that maybe....just maybe... we have a point. At least until 'it' happens to them as well.

They should be thankful too that we usually don't troll the heck outta them, stoop to rabid name calling, trying to negative rep them into moderated status (oh yeah, nothing to abuse here), or otherwise go out of our way to completely belittle their opinion, pish-tosh their complaint, delete and lock the thread, should I stop here?

what did happen to Fernando Paiz anyway?

all I can find in the recent/current department, is what looks to be like a fake profile for him at in a position at Wallmart.

even the DDO forums are silent on the matter, no one seems to care what he has moved on to. is he still within Turbine? is he currently seeking work? does he have a new job?

would be interesting info to find out.

...

as to the matter of a forum were one can speak as an adult. yes the venting can certainly appear to an outsider to be a central theme, but that would be a VERY superficial assessment.

just looking at one recent threads stream of conciousness, started as a discussion of the lack of convention participation from Lotro, then just drifted into a discussion about junk food.

it wasn't an aggressive thread jack, but rather spontanious, everyone just seemed quite comfortable switching to levity.

i have only been here on this forum a short time & i've already enjoyed it more than the entire time over at the official forum. i have never felt at home there, or comfortable. nor do i remember anything particularily spontanious.

to be honest, the official forums are a bit of a pill & i have no desire to go through life sedated.

for all those new posters, showing up, welcome. this is definitely a quality of life improvement.

@ to Rainothon... did you see the responses Bango received from Turbine? even if it was a misunderstanding, does that look to you like acceptible official communication?

don't be so hasty to cast aside what is being said here. it is not said for lack of substance

Better he moved to Istanbul and took up a carpet cleaning business. At least that is honest work. The travesty he's injected into just LOTRO alone is sickening.

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Hi Rain.

If it really was a case of misunderstanding then yes I would agree that a resolution could be worked through. However just reading the responses I got tells me that whoever the moderator was decided that he/she did not like my post & banned me.

The real concern I have is the nature of the moderators response. There was no attempt to determine, objectively whether what I posted was against a specific condition and arrive at an answer. The approach of the moderator from the start was to treat this as just another forum discussion, where objectivity is thrown out and the answer is determined by whoever "wins" the discussion. Is that seriously the right way to deal with problems?

That's what grates me in this. I had expected to be treated honestly and fairly. The evidence is there to see that I was not and it's because of that I have no intention whatsoever to post on that forum ever again.

The root cause is that Turbine either has some individuals or a team whereby focus on the customer is just not a concern, what matters is their own ego & self importance with the result that the job becomes a game. I've encountered this before plenty of times through my work and indeed I've sacked people because their egos have grown too large and they've stopped behaving in the best interests of the organisation. Depending on the answer I get from my letter to their CEO will determine for me whether this culture is a local problem or permeates right through to the top.

So, I really am concerned that should you get involved that you will also get similar treatment, which would be a real shame as your forum posts have always been well thought through and constructive.

But that's up to you my friend :) Maybe you too should experience what I did.

Thanks again.

Bango.

Hey Bango,

I understand how you'd feel grated. But I'd ask you to keep an open mind. I'd not rule out the possibility that the misunderstanding here is mutual.

Communicating through posts and mails is so innately flawed by lack of the human factor. We try to tell things from people's printed words on screen, but the reality is we often completely miss the true intentions.

You know LOTRO's forum is moderated strictly, right? That doesn't mean the moderators aren't actually nice and decent folk, once you've cleared up whatever caused them to qualify your post as rulebreaking.

Good luck Bango, I hope you can find your feelings of being grated taken away.

And now for the regulars here. I am no stranger to you, though you know me not, as I have been lurking here since 2011. I have no intention of getting actively involved in your community. Purely a matter of personal taste, I can get over some of you seemingly having a hard time ever to agree to disagree - there's a lot of that on each and any forum. But I have a big problem with the way some of you attack individuals who are not even active here. This definitely includes Turbine staff. Personally I think you may disagree all you want and be vocal about it, but if you have any intention of having a discussion then ad hominim attack, demonizing and insults have no place at all in a post! If the shoe fits, wear it.

Also some of the regulars here will surely disagree with me about my claim that the moderators are actually nice and decent folk, once you've cleared up whatever caused them to qualify your post as rulebreaking. Some of the zealous regulars here have their version of the truth, just as the zealous fans on the official forum have theirs. I know only my version of the truth (don't we all?), but I try to understand how and why others have their own and why they're worlds apart at times. I'm seeing issues in clearing up conflicts or in their escalation (again, shoe fits?). It helps if you try to see that there is no 'red' or 'blue' pill. Nor rose-tinted glass. It helps if you try to re-evaluate your views from time to time. Could you be wrong? Part of me lurking here is me keeping tabs on my version of the truth. I might be wrong. But all your 'overwhelming stacking evidence' quickly loses so much of it's strength to me once I apply a helicopter view.

So, that's my opinion. As I've stated before I have no intention of becoming an active member here for my own good reasons. I sincerely apologize to those who'd wish to open mindedly discus my opinion with me. I realize I'm doing somewhat of a miserable thing posting my opinion and then outright refusing to discuss it. But as much as I respect your opinion, I will not go into discussion here.

Goodbye, I'm back to lurker mode.

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And now for the regulars here. I am no stranger to you, though you know me not, as I have been lurking here since 2011. I have no intention of getting actively involved in your community. Purely a matter of personal taste, I can get over some of you seemingly having a hard time ever to agree to disagree - there's a lot of that on each and any forum. But I have a big problem with the way some of you attack individuals who are not even active here. This definitely includes Turbine staff. Personally I think you may disagree all you want and be vocal about it, but if you have any intention of having a discussion then ad hominim attack, demonizing and insults have no place at all in a post! If the shoe fits, wear it.

Interesting enough, I would say that also applies quite well to many of the regular posters on the official LOTRO forums as well.

Also some of the regulars here will surely disagree with me about my claim that the moderators are actually nice and decent folk, once you've cleared up whatever caused them to qualify your post as rulebreaking. Some of the zealous regulars here have their version of the truth, just as the zealous fans on the official forum have theirs. I know only my version of the truth (don't we all?), but I try to understand how and why others have their own and why they're worlds apart at times. I'm seeing issues in clearing up conflicts or in their escalation (again, shoe fits?). It helps if you try to see that there is no 'red' or 'blue' pill. Nor rose-tinted glass. It helps if you try to re-evaluate your views from time to time. Could you be wrong? Part of me lurking here is me keeping tabs on my version of the truth. I might be wrong. But all your 'overwhelming stacking evidence' quickly loses so much of it's strength to me once I apply a helicopter view.

I've been observing the official and unofficial LOTRO forums for many years, and I can tell you this much: You are wrong in this. Rick Heaton may be a decent person in real life, I would not know, having never met him in person, but he is a truly horrible Community Manager. His influence has made the official forums into a cesspool of fanboyism and no place for true discussion of the game at all... If you are not 100% behind Turbine and any decisions they make regarding LOTRO, you can expect to be ridiculed, bullied (via negative rep and insulting posts), and often silenced by the CM staff... even if you don't break any forum rules. I have tried to give Turbine and the regulars on the official forums the benefit of the doubt many, many times, and each time they have proven me right in my assessment of them. While all isn't shiny and nice here either, it would be ridiculous to say those here who are negative regarding certain posters there and Turbine staff do so without due cause. Some of us are a bit overzealous in their vitriol, I will give you that, but that vitriol has been earned over many years of poor customer relations and bad behavior from the Cheerleaders on the official forums.

So, that's my opinion. As I've stated before I have no intention of becoming an active member here for my own good reasons. I sincerely apologize to those who'd wish to open mindedly discus my opinion with me. I realize I'm doing somewhat of a miserable thing posting my opinion and then outright refusing to discuss it. But as much as I respect your opinion, I will not go into discussion here.

Goodbye, I'm back to lurker mode.

Noted, enjoy your stay.

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Goodbye, I'm back to lurker mode.

Since you are lurking and not answering messages, let me just give my opinion (which won't require any answer). First to set the background, I should state that I have the "poster of note" title on the official forum, with several squares of rep, and never got as much as a single infraction. Not every one here like to get into heated arguments, playing the forum PvP game.

There is one thing which sets the official forum from all the fan forums about the game: there is a slight chance that your messages will be read by someone from the company itself, and an even smaller one that you will get an answer. "Tickle the dev" has been my favorite part of the official forum in my early years, and I received many interesting answers on the game mechanics. Exchanging with theory crafters is also easier since there seem to be many more of them on the official forum than elsewhere. This last year felt pretty dull on the official forums, and the only thing which can now set apart the official forums is that the moderator is different, and you can get negative effects on your game account. This is why I am keeping clear of those boards and enjoying this forum.

TLDR: When only the moderators are taken into considerations, the moderators here are vastly superior to Turbine's staff. And there aren't even paid for that.

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<.............................................>

Goodbye, I'm back to lurker mode.

Funny that.. my first half dozen infractions were for insisting the lag problem existed when being told it didn't. "Trolling" and "spreading rumors". You'd better not tell me that I have to "put away bad feelings"... SPECIALLY considering the game ... STILL LAGS!!!

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Hey Bango,

I understand how you'd feel grated. But I'd ask you to keep an open mind. I'd not rule out the possibility that the misunderstanding here is mutual.

....

Rain,

When you get to my age (assuming you're not already in your mid 40s) you start to judge people but what they do, not by their intentions. Those actions by the moderator were:

1. Immediate ban for what is very mild criticism. How many times have others said that LOTRO has become too "grindy" for the number of levels and that the epic story has lost it's lustre? Hardly a stinging rebuke is it?

2. The first reason I was given for the ban was a downright lie. There is of course no condition that only "active players" can post on the forum. Did not exactly take a huge amount of probing on my part to determine that.

3. The quite unnecessary level of rudeness & sarcasm from the Turbine moderators. In my experience this is symptomatic of someone who has been in a job for too long and considers themselves "untouchable".

4. Being told that I had "criticized the company". A total and utter fabrication by the moderator.

5. I raised a moderation appeal on Thursday. In that appeal I did not ask for the forum access to be returned but for the moderator to answer two questions:

A. The exact reasons why the ban was put in place, and

B. Whether they considered the style and tone of the responses provided by themselves to be appropriate and in keeping with Turbine company policy.

Apart from the default response one gets when any ticket is raised, I've not heard a thing back. If there was a misunderstanding I would have had an answer to these questions and an invitation to discuss the matter further. Not looking promising is it?

So, on the whole I'm pretty certain that there was no misunderstanding.

On a final point, I too like to take a balanced view of matters - the "35,000 feet consideration" as I call it. However, I think I've seen enough to make up my own mind on where the truth lies.

Anyhow, I'm past caring about this now - life's really too short.

Bango.

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Rain,

When you get to my age (assuming you're not already in your mid 40s) you start to judge people but what they do, not by their intentions. Those actions by the moderator were:

1. Immediate ban for what is very mild criticism. How many times have others said that LOTRO has become too "grindy" for the number of levels and that the epic story has lost it's lustre? Hardly a stinging rebuke is it?

2. The first reason I was given for the ban was a downright lie. There is of course no condition that only "active players" can post on the forum. Did not exactly take a huge amount of probing on my part to determine that.

3. The quite unnecessary level of rudeness & sarcasm from the Turbine moderators. In my experience this is symptomatic of someone who has been in a job for too long and considers themselves "untouchable".

4. Being told that I had "criticized the company". A total and utter fabrication by the moderator.

5. I raised a moderation appeal on Thursday. In that appeal I did not ask for the forum access to be returned but for the moderator to answer two questions:

A. The exact reasons why the ban was put in place, and

B. Whether they considered the style and tone of the responses provided by themselves to be appropriate and in keeping with Turbine company policy.

Apart from the default response one gets when any ticket is raised, I've not heard a thing back. If there was a misunderstanding I would have had an answer to these questions and an invitation to discuss the matter further. Not looking promising is it?

So, on the whole I'm pretty certain that there was no misunderstanding.

On a final point, I too like to take a balanced view of matters - the "35,000 feet consideration" as I call it. However, I think I've seen enough to make up my own mind on where the truth lies.

Anyhow, I'm past caring about this now - life's really too short.

Bango.

I've been banned for asking whether the waffly statements about LOTRO's future mean that a signature has been put on paper or not (on the license extension with the Tolkien rights owners/managers). I must have received 3+ infractions for that. Where does fit into your scheme?

I can't tell you specifically where those last infractions went and what the posts were because the regular infraction tracker in your usercp in vbulletin is not used by Turbine. All you get a is a P.M. A P.M. that is not also sent in email like it is on other vbulletin installations. You can only read the infractions when you are logged in, which you can't do when you are banned for whatever reason. So by definition you can't see what banned you because the last infraction will never been seen by you. How do you explain that with goodwill?

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Hey Bango,

I understand how you'd feel grated. But I'd ask you to keep an open mind. I'd not rule out the possibility that the misunderstanding here is mutual.

Communicating through posts and mails is so innately flawed by lack of the human factor. We try to tell things from people's printed words on screen, but the reality is we often completely miss the true intentions.

You know LOTRO's forum is moderated strictly, right? That doesn't mean the moderators aren't actually nice and decent folk, once you've cleared up whatever caused them to qualify your post as rulebreaking.

Good luck Bango, I hope you can find your feelings of being grated taken away.

And now for the regulars here. I am no stranger to you, though you know me not, as I have been lurking here since 2011. I have no intention of getting actively involved in your community. Purely a matter of personal taste, I can get over some of you seemingly having a hard time ever to agree to disagree - there's a lot of that on each and any forum. But I have a big problem with the way some of you attack individuals who are not even active here. This definitely includes Turbine staff. Personally I think you may disagree all you want and be vocal about it, but if you have any intention of having a discussion then ad hominim attack, demonizing and insults have no place at all in a post! If the shoe fits, wear it.

Also some of the regulars here will surely disagree with me about my claim that the moderators are actually nice and decent folk, once you've cleared up whatever caused them to qualify your post as rulebreaking. Some of the zealous regulars here have their version of the truth, just as the zealous fans on the official forum have theirs. I know only my version of the truth (don't we all?), but I try to understand how and why others have their own and why they're worlds apart at times. I'm seeing issues in clearing up conflicts or in their escalation (again, shoe fits?). It helps if you try to see that there is no 'red' or 'blue' pill. Nor rose-tinted glass. It helps if you try to re-evaluate your views from time to time. Could you be wrong? Part of me lurking here is me keeping tabs on my version of the truth. I might be wrong. But all your 'overwhelming stacking evidence' quickly loses so much of it's strength to me once I apply a helicopter view.

So, that's my opinion. As I've stated before I have no intention of becoming an active member here for my own good reasons. I sincerely apologize to those who'd wish to open mindedly discus my opinion with me. I realize I'm doing somewhat of a miserable thing posting my opinion and then outright refusing to discuss it. But as much as I respect your opinion, I will not go into discussion here.

Goodbye, I'm back to lurker mode.

Rain, I am not a regular on this forum. In fact I've never received a single infraction on the official forums or in the game itself. Yet this year when I tried to return to the game (And just couldn't because the quality of the game diminished greatly with server side lag) I had also found a permanent ban was applied to my forum account. Contacting their forum moderation staff, it took 2 emails before I finally got a response which was this:

Thank you for contacting Turbine Community Support.

We have looked into your request, and have removed the ban from your account. Welcome back! We were not able to see enough history to determine why you might have landed in a banned state, but as long as you follow the community guidelines, your posting privileges should remain intact.

Thank you,

The Turbine Customer Service Team

In other words, out of the blue they had decided to ban me from their forum without reason or notification. Was it resolved? Yes. But that still left a bitter taste in my mouth, especially having just got done dealing with a similar attitude with Blizzard Entertainment. And if you are curious about that one:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/Grand-Dragon/Banned2_zps19a039ef.png

Their lead developer when addressing their customers giving a big checklist of bugs and performance issues regarding a piece of new tech they released in their latest expansion, told them "Anyone complaining about CRZ just wants a single player game and should go play skyrim". CRZ being the tech that released with the whole checklist of bugs and performance issues that were reported during that expansions beta.

Now after seeing what Turbine is doing to its fans, I wish I hadn't included them in my example of companies having good relationships with their player base. Turbine used to have an outstanding relationship with their customers. I had quit lotro because I was burnt out, nothing more. So it was for me, a big shock trying to return only to find how bad they turned. Incidentally, inside sources says now Blizzard has lost so many subscriptions they are about to switch to free to play as well in hopes of stopping the loss of income and try to turn their losses around. But I can tell you right now, the moment that switch is flipped, they will lose an even greater chunk of subscribers. Why play an 8 year old game that has poor writing now, and doesn't care if something is breaking the game, when you can play other better games for free, and some that will be subscription based.

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By way of an epitaph to this whole lamentable issue, I've just discovered that the ticket I raised for the moderation appeal has been closed without any reply.

As Jim Royal would say... "Misunderstanding... MY ARSE" !

Thanks all for following this little saga. Hopefully we've all learnt something from it.

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Thanks all for following this little saga. Hopefully we've all learnt something from it.

Probably all except Turbine.

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And now for the regulars here. I am no stranger to you, though you know me not, as I have been lurking here since 2011. I have no intention of getting actively involved in your community. Purely a matter of personal taste, I can get over some of you seemingly having a hard time ever to agree to disagree - there's a lot of that on each and any forum. But I have a big problem with the way some of you attack individuals who are not even active here. This definitely includes Turbine staff. Personally I think you may disagree all you want and be vocal about it, but if you have any intention of having a discussion then ad hominim attack, demonizing and insults have no place at all in a post! If the shoe fits, wear it.

At least we can wear shoes of our liking here. And, from what you are saying, it appears that you can wear any tint of glasses you like, even rose-tinted.

Also some of the regulars here will surely disagree with me about my claim that the moderators are actually nice and decent folk, once you've cleared up whatever caused them to qualify your post as rulebreaking. Some of the zealous regulars here have their version of the truth, just as the zealous fans on the official forum have theirs. I know only my version of the truth (don't we all?), but I try to understand how and why others have their own and why they're worlds apart at times. I'm seeing issues in clearing up conflicts or in their escalation (again, shoe fits?). It helps if you try to see that there is no 'red' or 'blue' pill. Nor rose-tinted glass. It helps if you try to re-evaluate your views from time to time. Could you be wrong? Part of me lurking here is me keeping tabs on my version of the truth. I might be wrong. But all your 'overwhelming stacking evidence' quickly loses so much of it's strength to me once I apply a helicopter view.

Truth is truth. Trying to "rise above it all" doesn't change it.

So, that's my opinion. As I've stated before I have no intention of becoming an active member here for my own good reasons. I sincerely apologize to those who'd wish to open mindedly discus my opinion with me. I realize I'm doing somewhat of a miserable thing posting my opinion and then outright refusing to discuss it. But as much as I respect your opinion, I will not go into discussion here.

Goodbye, I'm back to lurker mode.

Of course, the fact that your comments remain speaks to the vastly superior nature of this board, where criticism can actually be discussed for both veracity and content. Of course, you have chosen to remove yourself from the convo and, by extension, a chance to extrapolate on your viewpoint. But, because you don't have the benefit of a über-tyrannical moderator to stop the convo when it gets uncomfortable for you, you just won't have a go at it.

I never thought I would say this to another registered user on this forum, but, gosh and golly, you have pushed just the right button.

Door.jpg

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Dal, do not be so hard on the guy.

cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable enough without someone shoving a boot in your arse.

i have no problem whatsoever with him lurking.

isolation from conflicting viewpoints re-enforces the tribe/herd mentality.

exposure, uncomfortable as it may be... is a good thing.

let him wash his hands for the moment & disassociate. that is his current coping mechanism.

end of day, Bango doesn't fit his villain paradigm. if he can't resolve villification of Bango, he will eventually come round in his own time.

some problems solve themselves if given time.

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Nicely done Rain, you managed to get some responses even after stating clearly you had no intention of debate. Excellent troll, well done.

FWIW, people who can't find fault with things even when it's apparent are not fans or customers, they are usually employed by the company providing said service. People paying for product don't just roll over and take it. The very fact the rules don't apply to them is all the proof I need. The company I work for provides service, and we have people paid to use Twitter, Facebook, and other sites. So I know it happens.

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Dal, do not be so hard on the guy.

cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable enough without someone shoving a boot in your arse.

i have no problem whatsoever with him lurking.

isolation from conflicting viewpoints re-enforces the tribe/herd mentality.

exposure, uncomfortable as it may be... is a good thing.

let him wash his hands for the moment & disassociate. that is his current coping mechanism.

end of day, Bango doesn't fit his villain paradigm. if he can't resolve villification of Bango, he will eventually come round in his own time.

some problems solve themselves if given time.

Ah, but he now refuses to bring the convo to its full exposure to the very crucible we find so beneficial here. Instead, he chose to engage in two PM-worthy posts, followed by a cowardly snipe-and-run at the legitimate complaints that have been noted here ad nauseum for years. He deserves what I have said ... and that was me being polite.

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Ah, but he now refuses to bring the convo to its full exposure to the very crucible we find so beneficial here. Instead, he chose to engage in two PM-worthy posts, followed by a cowardly snipe-and-run at the legitimate complaints that have been noted here ad nauseum for years. He deserves what I have said ... and that was me being polite.

Agreed. Making a 'holier than thou' post that slaps every single person on this forum and then running away is an absolute joke.

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Ah, but he now refuses to bring the convo to its full exposure to the very crucible we find so beneficial here. Instead, he chose to engage in two PM-worthy posts, followed by a cowardly snipe-and-run at the legitimate complaints that have been noted here ad nauseum for years. He deserves what I have said ... and that was me being polite.

fair enough.

Bango simply doesn't fit the villain profile in his head. everything, & i mean everything he is currently doing is an attempt to resolve that conflict.

including the, "I wash my hands of these proceedings."

not that your displeasure is significant enough to confirm a bias, but it may be fuel enough to prolong the justification, 'it is just a misunderstanding, Sapience has mistaken you for a villain, but you are not a villian."

the details of the conversation Bango outlined on the first page of this thread... those things won't simply disappear. neither will the fact that Bango has established himself in a light counter to 'the villification' that needs to be established in order to excuse this.

so my point is not whether or not he deserves a response in kind... that is something entirely up to you.

my point, is that he stepped out from the shadows, to address a percieved conflict, with what he has come to understand... dissonance is occuring.

he is now fighting the value of his past experience with Bango, which he states in a positive framework, with his current perceptions of the official functioning of the forums.

if he has 'sunken costs' in either, resolution isn't going to be easy.

i guess we'll find out at some point if Bango is someone he can view as a villain, or if that just won't set in his mind.

regardless, i am sure he will be free at anypoint to return to discuss more if the mood should take him. my albiet limited impression of these forums, is that discussions generally run their natural course.

and for that i am very happy!

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