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WAR shuts down


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http://kotaku.com/warhammer-online-age-of-reckoning-is-shutting-down-1343926017

Such a shame. Best RvR in any MMO I played.

Unfortunately it just had very little else other than it's pvp and I guess that wasn't enough.

Also

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Gameplay/General-Discussion/Also-Official-Fozee-Quits-17346827-1.html

Always been a fan of Fozee :-)

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Well, I hate to say this was not entirely unexpected. Mythic has been clear that they had no intention of taking WAR F2P, and that is likely the only thing that could have saved the game. Alas. But what killed WAR? EA did, in my opinion.

WAR had great pre-launch hype, with a capital city planned for each race in the game. The factions would then be able to attack enemy cities, and this would add even more content to the game, as players would have to defend their cities, in addition to the usual questing and whatnot. It sounded like a blast, to be honest. But EA, as they so often do, intervened and forced the game to market with only one capital city per faction, rather than three. The loss of 2/3rds of their leveling PvE content, plus the loss of 2/3rds of their potential open-world PvP/RvR content made for a lackluster experience for many. While the game had a solid launch, it could not sustain those playerbase numbers with such limited content, and thus was crippled. With players leaving, EA couldn't justify financing adding in the missing capital cities, and so the situation spiraled downward to what we see now... a game that died, due to mismanagement and starved of resources.

This is why any MMORPG that EA has direct control over is almost certainly doomed. All they look at are short term financial numbers, rather than the long-term goals.

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Honestly, it was more than just EA. For one thing, the animations (at least in the newbie zones, where everyone gets their first impression of a game) were atrocious. Just four examples that I recall vividly from trying out the game ... in late beta? Some weekend when they offered a free trial? I don't remember the details; but I do remember:

1. Witch Elves would stab themselves in the buttocks with their daggers as they ran.

2. Swordmasters had one functional attack at early levels, an absolutely over-the-top spinning animation that you had to do over and over.

3. NPC Dark Elves would repeat the same slashing attack over and over until they died, with no variation at all.

4. NPC Dark Elves had possibly the most boring death animation I've ever seen.

There were a lot of things I liked about the game: the first real "at will" dynamic group content (run up, kill some things, progress the event, leave and get rewards); the art style (if only the artists were also competent at animation); the quest log / personal journal; and the Warhammer "feel."

But we spend an awful lot of time watching our characters in combat: it's critically important to me that the combat look interesting. Watching my character executing the same spin repeatedly while the NPC executes the same slashing attack repeatedly? Boring beyond belief....

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Also

http://social.biowar...17346827-1.html

Always been a fan of Fozee :-)

I feel really sorry for Fozee, he/she (i never did find out lol) has been the "front man/girl" for their community for a long time now and has been brilliant, he/she has always tried to keep us up to date with what is happening, but it turns out so much of what was related to us through Fozee was absolute bullshit and now Fozee looks like he/she was lying to use, fortunately almost everyone knew Fozee really well and knew that Fozee had been royally screwed so it hasn't come back in the way it could have.

Also epic quitting post :D

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Honestly, it was more than just EA. For one thing, the animations (at least in the newbie zones, where everyone gets their first impression of a game) were atrocious. Just four examples that I recall vividly from trying out the game ... in late beta? Some weekend when they offered a free trial? I don't remember the details; but I do remember:

1. Witch Elves would stab themselves in the buttocks with their daggers as they ran.

2. Swordmasters had one functional attack at early levels, an absolutely over-the-top spinning animation that you had to do over and over.

3. NPC Dark Elves would repeat the same slashing attack over and over until they died, with no variation at all.

4. NPC Dark Elves had possibly the most boring death animation I've ever seen.

There were a lot of things I liked about the game: the first real "at will" dynamic group content (run up, kill some things, progress the event, leave and get rewards); the art style (if only the artists were also competent at animation); the quest log / personal journal; and the Warhammer "feel."

But we spend an awful lot of time watching our characters in combat: it's critically important to me that the combat look interesting. Watching my character executing the same spin repeatedly while the NPC executes the same slashing attack repeatedly? Boring beyond belief....

The problem here is that you only got to see the early levels, yes you only have one ability to start with, as you level you get more. For example the Swordmaster over time gets so many different abilities it's difficult to choose which to use. Once you get over levell 20 your bar is full and you are runing chains of abilities each of which has its own animation.

I also have the feeling that you may have not gone and purchased your skills from the career trainers if you think they only have one ability.

it's the same in most games where skills are granted as you level, you start off with one ability and as you level you get more, but for the first 10 or so levels you tend to only have a couple of abilities.

This is why any MMORPG that EA has direct control over is almost certainly doomed. All they look at are short term financial numbers, rather than the long-term goals.

Not so sure about that. Ultima Online is still running after 16 years and that's an EA mmo.

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One big mistake they made was to open with too many servers. Once the player base started to die down after launch they quickly had to merge servers and merging servers just gives the wrong impression to the casual observer.

PvE was also dull and uninspiring.

However some of my favourite memories are of epic keep defences against hordes of opposition and the brilliant PvP lakes that I have yet to see successfully re-created elsewhere (SWTOR tried and failed). It could have worked as a F2P game, it's a shame they didn't want to try it.

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One big mistake they made was to open with too many servers. Once the player base started to die down after launch they quickly had to merge servers and merging servers just gives the wrong impression to the casual observer.

PvE was also dull and uninspiring.

However some of my favourite memories are of epic keep defences against hordes of opposition and the brilliant PvP lakes that I have yet to see successfully re-created elsewhere (SWTOR tried and failed). It could have worked as a F2P game, it's a shame they didn't want to try it.

I pretty much agree with all of this, the best aspect if the game was RvR, the Player vs Player in WAR far out-shone the PVE aspect. BUT! It was still a poor mans imitation of the RvR/PvP from Dark Age of Camelot (the Mythic Entertainment game that inspired WAR's PvP system) and just a pale shadow in comparison.

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Actually I was surprised it haven't shut down earlier, considering how much commercially wise this game failed.

It hasn't actually failed comercially, it was still pullingin quite a bit of money form the final two servers, busy nights until last week were seeing 40vs40 battles on a regular basis. It finally failed simply because GW didn't renew the license, choosing to give it to another company instead.

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It hasn't actually failed comercially, it was still pullingin quite a bit of money form the final two servers, busy nights until last week were seeing 40vs40 battles on a regular basis. It finally failed simply because GW didn't renew the license, choosing to give it to another company instead.

You don't invest millions of dollars for multi-year developent in order to have 2 servers. Even if after severe cost reductions (read:firing people) those two servers were enough to be cash flow positive - that does not mean it was not commercial flop.

Commercial flop is when your product revenue don't meet goal set when investment was made. Warhammer Online performance certainly have not met it target.

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The problem here is that you only got to see the early levels, yes you only have one ability to start with, as you level you get more. For example the Swordmaster over time gets so many different abilities it's difficult to choose which to use. Once you get over levell 20 your bar is full and you are runing chains of abilities each of which has its own animation.

I'll put it a different way: Over the course of the last 14 years or so, I've played Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camp-a-lot, Everquest II, Age of Conan, LOTRO, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, SWTOR, and Rift. I've also beta-tested or F2P-tested Vanguard, Fallen Earth, Neverwinter, and Guild Wars 2. Not a single one of those games had animations, even early-level animations, as bad as WAR's (though, admittedly, Asheron's Call's animations weren't exactly "good;" but the game is also almost a decade older than WAR). Also, common sense indicates that, if your early levels suck, or just appear to suck, you're going to lose an awful lot of players before they've ever really given the game a chance. That's why so many games have invested so much effort into their newbie zones. Mythic clearly never learned that lesson....

I also have the feeling that you may have not gone and purchased your skills from the career trainers if you think they only have one ability.

That's quite possible, though I did use the word "functionally" intentionally (as in, the Swordmaster may have had other abilities, but the only one actually worth using was that one with the spinning animation). Quite frankly I don't remember enough about the newbie zones to say; in fact, the only thing I recall about the game is just how disappointed I was with the production values, especially the animations. The only character class and starting zone for which I have any positive memories at all was Empire Warrior Priest.

it's the same in most games where skills are granted as you level, you start off with one ability and as you level you get more, but for the first 10 or so levels you tend to only have a couple of abilities.

In most modern games, those first levels tend to go by very quickly. The abilities tend to be granted semi-automatically. And some effort is made to ensure that the "newbie experience" is "exciting."

Mind you, I've been playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle for almost as long as I've been playing MMO's; so I really wanted to like the game. I just couldn't. I guess EQ2 and AoC spoiled me for good production values, whatever other flaws they might have had.

But hey, different people have different tastes. I'm disappointed that the people who actually enjoyed the game are going to lose it, just as I felt some sympathy for those who love Star Wars: Galaxies, despite having no interest in it myself. My hope, however, is that Games Workshop will seek out a new partner and take another shot at a Warhammer MMO; why else would they pull the license?

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In most modern games, those first levels tend to go by very quickly. The abilities tend to be granted semi-automatically. And some effort is made to ensure that the "newbie experience" is "exciting."

And it's the same in WAR, you can actually even get to Rank 15/Realm Rank 10 in around 30 minutes from creating a charactor.

The "newbie experience in WAR" is exciting enough for me, that's all down to personal preference, and again i see nothing wrong with the animations there are some pretty cool looking ones in my opinion.

As to auto granting, yes many new games are going down the dumb player route and auto granting skills, personally i think that ruins the whole game, but then again i'm of the generation who loved the training system in SWG.

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You don't invest millions of dollars for multi-year developent in order to have 2 servers. Even if after severe cost reductions (read:firing people) those two servers were enough to be cash flow positive - that does not mean it was not commercial flop.

Commercial flop is when your product revenue don't meet goal set when investment was made. Warhammer Online performance certainly have not met it target.

I suppose you are right, i just think that setting an excessive goal and then giving up because you don't reach it despite actually making a proffit is a stupid way to run a business, if you're making a proffit you should milk it until you stop making a proffit.

I wasn't saying they were making huge proffits, i was trying to say that i don't think that proffit margins were the reason this happened, they made a big deal on the whole IP with a big company and it was very likely that they insisted on having the whole IP so GW were forced to drop WAR from the license. if that hadn't happened then they probably would have strecthed WAR out another couple of years, heck the same company are still hosting UO and DAOC with far less population than WAR.

Plus i have suspiscions that they knew about this deal with the license a very long time ago. It's odd that they dropped the 1yr subs exactly 9 months ago, and gain they droped the 6 month subs exactly 3 months ago, and now they've dropped the 3 month subs and told us the game is closing in 3 months. I'm pretty sure they knew about this at least a year ago and that's why nothing has been done to either fix the game for existing players or entice new players in.

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While we're ont he topic, csan any of you guys who have played GW2 and or Rift give a little advice.

Now that WAR is closing myself and my guild are looking for an alternative for our PvP needs.

We're all pretty much the same in preferences, we love PvP on a large scale a la DAOC and WAR, we hate having to follow "soloable" quest chains to level and prefer to grind mobs or do large scale pve (think WAR PQ's, dungeons/raid or group quesitng etc).

Which would suit us closer GW2 or Rift?

Or does anyone know of another game that would suit us?

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Haven't played for a few months, but Rift has some good PvP systems - including large scale battles. I can't imagine it can compare to GW2. Rift seems very traiditonal - like WoW - with slowly getting good gear and rank in PvP. It is pretty fun - I am curious what MMO Troll and others think of Rift PvP vs. GW2.

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While we're ont he topic, csan any of you guys who have played GW2 and or Rift give a little advice.

Now that WAR is closing myself and my guild are looking for an alternative for our PvP needs.

We're all pretty much the same in preferences, we love PvP on a large scale a la DAOC and WAR, we hate having to follow "soloable" quest chains to level and prefer to grind mobs or do large scale pve (think WAR PQ's, dungeons/raid or group quesitng etc).

Which would suit us closer GW2 or Rift?

Or does anyone know of another game that would suit us?

For PvP, out of GW2 or Rift I would choose GW2. If you are used to WAR then GW2 WvWvW is much more similar to the PvP lakes you are used to. In GW2, should you choose to, you can more or less level entirely through PvP (although in my opinion you should also take some time to explore, it's one of GW2s strong points).

Well I just reactivated my account for the 14 free days, may as well have one last look.

This is the slowest downloadreinstall ever, I shouldn't have bothered!

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For PvP, out of GW2 or Rift I would choose GW2. If you are used to WAR then GW2 WvWvW is much more similar to the PvP lakes you are used to. In GW2, should you choose to, you can more or less level entirely through PvP (although in my opinion you should also take some time to explore, it's one of GW2s strong points).

Thanks i'll bear that in mind.

This is the slowest downloadreinstall ever, I shouldn't have bothered!

Ouch, must be a lot of peopel dl'ing for the 14 days cos normally it's a fairly good speed, not fast but not too slow.

Haven't played for a few months, but Rift has some good PvP systems - including large scale battles. I can't imagine it can compare to GW2. Rift seems very traiditonal - like WoW - with slowly getting good gear and rank in PvP. It is pretty fun - I am curious what MMO Troll and others think of Rift PvP vs. GW2.

Thanks, i'm curious as to what MMO Troll and Moderate think myself.

What i'm more worried about is the leveling aspect..

Is it possible to grind our way throught the levels on mobs or would that be way too slow?

Are there large scale pve systems like the PQ's from WAR?

Is there enough group content for us to group our way through?

We realy don't want to feel like we're soling all the way through to max level like many games (wow and lotro to mention just two) and prefer to do group stuff leveling together instead.

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I suppose you are right, i just think that setting an excessive goal and then giving up because you don't reach it despite actually making a proffit is a stupid way to run a business, if you're making a proffit you should milk it until you stop making a proffit.

I wasn't saying they were making huge proffits, i was trying to say that i don't think that proffit margins were the reason this happened, they made a big deal on the whole IP with a big company and it was very likely that they insisted on having the whole IP so GW were forced to drop WAR from the license. if that hadn't happened then they probably would have strecthed WAR out another couple of years, heck the same company are still hosting UO and DAOC with far less population than WAR.

Plus i have suspiscions that they knew about this deal with the license a very long time ago. It's odd that they dropped the 1yr subs exactly 9 months ago, and gain they droped the 6 month subs exactly 3 months ago, and now they've dropped the 3 month subs and told us the game is closing in 3 months. I'm pretty sure they knew about this at least a year ago and that's why nothing has been done to either fix the game for existing players or entice new players in.

Well goal has to be set reasonably and that is where many companies went bonkers since WoW success, but 2 surely is well below even minimum reasonable amount.

As for killing game early if it is far from reaching a goal. It sometimes is best thing to do. If reasorces that are being spent on running, patching, marketting, etc game can be used to a bigger benefit elsewhere - then from business point of view it is reasonable to close game instead of maintaining it and milking small remaining playerbase. Of course this is case-to-case basic rather than a rule.

I don't know exactly why War is getting closed down, but I think this is not a surprise. As for Warhammer profits vs UO / DAoC profits. That is less obvious than you would think. First of all both UO and DAoC (especially UO though) had few years of going strong, either increasing or maintaining subscription amount. Something that Warhammer (and many newer mmorpg's) never had.

Coupling that with simple fact that UO & DAoC were multiple times cheaper to create, they surely repaid all investments spent of developing and delivering them.

While I don't have any solid data on Warhammer Online, considering scope of the game, how long it was in development and amount of money spent on initial marketting - I have doubts it repaid itself and even if it did. I am quite sure it earned less per every 1$ invested than UO & DAoC did.

Month - to - month revenue > cost of on-going development, server, electricity, etc is not enough. Game has to earn enough to repay those money that was spend for few years before it was released and started to make money.

Investing in example 50 mln $ in years 1999-2005 in order to have i.e. 200,000$ average profit per month in 2005-2010 is VERY BAD business. Of course amount are taken from air, I am just trying to show what I meant in previous paragraphs.

Besides I am not so sure that UO and DaOC have smaller paid populations than Warhammer.

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While we're ont he topic, csan any of you guys who have played GW2 and or Rift give a little advice.

Now that WAR is closing myself and my guild are looking for an alternative for our PvP needs.

We're all pretty much the same in preferences, we love PvP on a large scale a la DAOC and WAR, we hate having to follow "soloable" quest chains to level and prefer to grind mobs or do large scale pve (think WAR PQ's, dungeons/raid or group quesitng etc).

Which would suit us closer GW2 or Rift?

Or does anyone know of another game that would suit us?

Of those two, I would suggest GW2, because it is much more PvP-focused than Rift is. I love Rift, don't get me wrong, but if it is PvP you are after then GW2 is where you need to be.

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