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Developer Diary : Minstrel Class Changes in Helm’s Deep


cossieuk
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Yet your analogy implied a level of power over what can and can't be said. Implying that we are complaining we are being stopped from saying what we like by 'mommy'.

 

But yeah, I am telling people to consider context before reacting, or you end up with a blind emotional reaction. However, I am not telling them how they should feel afterwards.

You're a fucking mess...my analogy was just to point out the absurdity of some of your arguments and the need to have them, nothing more.  Again, authority issues much?

 

This all boils down to common decency and respect in the end. And as you stated yourself, some people just don't have that in them to give.

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You're a fucking mess...my analogy was just to point out the absurdity of some of your arguments and the need to have them, nothing more.  Again, authority issues much?

Nope. Just an issue with flawed analogies. If you want to imply we're children, at least get it right.

 

This all boils down to common decency and respect in the end. And as you stated yourself, some people just don't have that in them to give.

True. I have no respect for people. It's something that needs to be earned, not given as read. But I also have an issue with sensitivity. I'm a big fan of stoicism, so when it comes to people being offended, hurt or upset by words not even directed at them, it doesn't sit well with me. Obviously, they're free to do so, but I'll always provide the opposing voice.

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Nope. Just an issue with flawed analogies. If you want to imply we're children, at least get it right.

 

True. I have no respect for people. It's something that needs to be earned, not given as read. But I also have an issue with sensitivity. I'm a big fan of stoicism, so when it comes to people being offended, hurt or upset by words not even directed at them, it doesn't sit well with me. Obviously, they're free to do so, but I'll always provide the opposing voice.

Surely by opposing for opposings sake makes you no more better than the people you as saying should not take offense. I see you hide behind  "freedm of speech" and yet you come across as just likeing an argument for arguments sake.

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Surely by opposing for opposings sake makes you no more better than the people you as saying should not take offense. I see you hide behind  "freedm of speech" and yet you come across as just likeing an argument for arguments sake.

This.  Doro 101.  Plain and simple.  Which is why it always ends up pointless to have a debate with him.

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My 2 cents.

 

I don't see how just because a word has become commonplace in one environment (PvP games) that this suddenly makes it ok to use in that environment? I believe when (forgot his name, the new idiot) wrote "Minstrels raped the moors", that he meant Minstrels defeated everyone and there was nothing the opponent could do to stop them. How is it ok to use the word rape for this?

 

I assume like me most of you play video games as a hobby or an escape, why is it ok in some online communities to deliberately use words that you know some will find offensive? It's just common decency isn't it? I don't imagine (although I'm sure someone will say it's fine) that you wouldn't go to the office the next day and say "I totally raped this noob in <insert game here> last night" to your colleagues.

 

I also find it slightly odd that anyone would want to boast that they "raped an entire raid" or that "class x rapes everyone", it just seems a strange thing to want to say and kind of makes the person saying it look like a bit of a twat.

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Surely by opposing for opposings sake makes you no more better than the people you as saying should not take offense. I see you hide behind  "freedm of speech" and yet you come across as just likeing an argument for arguments sake.

If that were the case, I'd argue things I didn't even believe in. Which I obviously don't do.

 

Classic.  What "we" are you referring to here exactly?  My words were directed at you and no one else, but nice try.

Umm, the other 2 people who also agreed that it wasn't an issue? Or did you not spot them?

I don't imagine (although I'm sure someone will say it's fine) that you wouldn't go to the office the next day and say "I totally raped this noob in <insert game here> last night" to your colleagues.

Context seems to be my word of the day today!

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I also find it slightly odd that anyone would want to boast that they "raped an entire raid" or that "class x rapes everyone", it just seems a strange thing to want to say

 

Instead of saying "we totally and utterly obliterated the opposition", PvP people just can say "we raped them". In this context, this word simply explain what happened in one word and everyone gets it.

 

It just struck me why i keep saying, that for me usuage of word rape is nothing new. In the end it is the PvP communities that use this word is such contexts and why so many people here are not so familiar with usage of this word in gaming. I would risk a guess that majority of people here are not serious pvp'ers but just pve'ers where the word rape would be used much less.

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Umm, the other 2 people who also agreed that it wasn't an issue? Or did you not spot them?

 

I don't count the opinion of the self-proclaimed homophobe but if you want to lop yourself in him with, be my guest.  The point is you seem to be the one still arguing the case.  A decent person would have stepped back a long time ago and acknowledged that some people could find the use of the word in question offensive REGARDLESS of context and just drop it.  Especially if some one in the forum identified as a rape victim.  But not everyone has your ego and need to win every argument. 

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I don't count the opinion of the self-proclaimed homophobe but if you want to lop yourself in him with, be my guest.

 

I thought that you would be a shining example of tolerance here...oh what an irony...person who screams for tolerance is intolerant himself...

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I don't count the opinion of the self-proclaimed homophobe but if you want to lop yourself in him with, be my guest.  The point is you seem to be the one still arguing the case.  A decent person would have stepped back a long time ago and acknowledged that some people could find the use of the word in question offensive REGARDLESS of context and just drop it.  Especially if some one in the forum identified as a rape victim.  But not everyone has your ego and need to win every argument.

I count myself with anyone else who doesn't find it an issue. Their position on unconnected issues doesn't influence that. But I see you just dismiss Nosam entirely.

No, I don't consider people finding offence REGARDLESS of context to be some magical immunity to being countered. Their opinion does not become an untouchable truth simply because of 'feelings'.

You really are obsessed with my ego, aren't you? Ever thought that I don't post to 'win', I post to respond? Probably not.

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I never said I had tolerance for homophobes.  No irony here.

 

So you are intolerant person? You do not tolerate views that you don't agree with? Just want to clear this out for future references.

 

How is it not ok for me to not tolerate gays manifesting on streets the simple fact they are gays but it is ok for you to not tolerate people with my view?

 

It's an honest question really.

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I count myself with anyone else who doesn't find it an issue. Their position on unconnected issues doesn't influence that. But I see you just dismiss Nosam entirely.

No, I don't consider people finding offence REGARDLESS of context to be some magical immunity to being countered. Their opinion does not become an untouchable truth simply because of 'feelings'.

You really are obsessed with my ego, aren't you? Ever thought that I don't post to 'win', I post to respond? Probably not.

I wasn't talking about Nosam...and he at least acknowledged Helcawen's point of view.

 

In the end it's how you try to make your case Doro...you may think it's cool and hip to come off as an insensitive person all the time, but when dealing with real human beings, it's not.  This may just be your online persona at play, but you could have made your point just as effectively without discounting the personal association someone has with that word.

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I edited my original post as you were typing this apparently, see above.

Ah, right. New post time then!

I wasn't talking about Nosam...and he at least acknowledged Helcawen's point of view.

Yeah, he a did a good job of pointing out both sides.

 

In the end it's how you try to make your case Doro...you may think it's cool and hip to come off as an insensitive person all the time, but when dealing with real human beings, it's not.  This may just be your online persona at play, but you could have made your point just as effectively without discounting the personal association someone has with that word.

I don't think it's cool or hip. Do you do things just because of how you think they'll come across to others (if your answer to this is 'yes', then I have no response at all)? I do as I do because I do. Not for any other reason.

You have this weird obsession with calling people fake or not real simply because they don't behave how you do or how you would like, which is pretty narrow-minded and egotistical in itself. Second time we've disagreed and it's the second time you've tried to dismiss it all by acting like I don't exist. That's a pretty serious set of mental gymnastics there.

I don't discount them. I'm fully aware how people associate with certain words. But my point is to separate the meaning of a word from the word itself. Because if the word is used in a context where the meaning doesn't make any sense, then what's the point of getting offended about the meaning you associate with it that wasn't there to begin with? To me, it's like building your own windfarm to complain about it ruining the skyline. Words change. Sometimes it's best not to get hung up on how else they're used when it doesn't apply in that situation.

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 Second time we've disagreed and it's the second time you've tried to dismiss it all by acting like I don't exist. That's a pretty serious set of mental gymnastics there.

 

That statement makes zero sense.  If I wanted to act like you don't exist, I would put you back on ignore and call it a day.  And yes, sometimes in regards to other people I take a second to think about my words and actions before I say or do them.  Not always, but I try.  How is that a bad thing exactly?  I live my life how I want to live it but if you are saying that taking people's feelings into consideration is a complete waste of time, then I don't know what to say to you.  Real life isn't a TV show starring Malcom Tucker.  But if that's the world you live in, so be it.

 

Some people can't separate the meaning of the word from the word itself.  You're asking people to shut off their emotions like they are a light switch. It's too raw, too close, too personal.  Your inability to acknowledge that--and hide behind a banner of freedom of speech--actually makes you the narrow minded one.  

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That statement makes zero sense.  If I wanted to act like you don't exist, I would put you back on ignore and call it a day.

And yet you insist I don't exist (twice now). Strange, that.

 

And yes, sometimes in regards to other people I take a second to think about my words and actions before I say or do them.  Not always, but I try.  How is that a bad thing exactly?  I live my life how I want to live it but if you are saying that taking people's feelings into consideration is a complete waste of time, then I don't know what to say to you.  Real life isn't a TV show starring Malcom Tucker.  But if that's the world you live in, so be it.

Where did I say it was a bad thing to do that? It's just not something I do myself. Unless it's people I care about or have earned my respect, then I do. But that's a very, very short list.

 

Some people can't separate the meaning of the word from the word itself.  You're asking people to shut off their emotions like they are a light switch. It's too raw, too close, too personal.  Your inability to acknowledge that--and hide behind a banner of freedom of speech--actually makes you the narrow minded one.

I'm asking people to think before they react. Otherwise we end up with people jumping straight to insulting others for simply using a word, without realising the context or actual meaning behind what was said.

And I'm not hiding being 'freedom of speech'. I'm not hiding anything at all, so I don't know where you pulled that from.

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As bucko has said, I'm insensitive. I don't care how my words affect others, because I don't care about how they feel. And I do not believe there are words people shouldn't use. Ever. Hurt feelings mean much less to me than freedom of words.

Your words not mine.

I'm asking people to think before they react. Otherwise we end up with people jumping straight to insulting others for simply using a word, without realising the context or actual meaning behind what was said.

 

Spare me.  If Helcawen politely asked W not to used that word it would had the same reaction from you--the whole c***t debate proved that.

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Spare me.  If Helcawen politely asked W not to used that word it would had the same reaction from you--the whole c***t debate proved that.

That's an entirely different thing. Asking someone not to use a word is different to jumping to insult them for misunderstanding the context. You really do swerve over a topic, don't you?

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If i had asked nicely for someone to refrain from using the word or any word for that matter i would have been laughed out of the forums in a similar manner to how people laugh at those who ask them now to swear in global and such. As i said to Doro i commend him on his mental and emotional strength. I do not share his views though and nor would many, in support groups a lot of who are young people and gamers.

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No shit, Doro.  How about you actually read the post?  Back when a few folks said they simply preferred not seeing the word c**t in the forums as a matter of opinion not policy, you joined the chorus of "oh no censorship, you are talking away my freedom of speech, this is just like the OF now, the word has a different meaning blah blah blah".  And that was when someone asked politely.  So my point was, even if Helcawen didn't have the emotional reaction she did and simply asked W not to use the word, I have no doubt you would be spouting the "freedom of words" rhetoric you are now.  

 

Side note:  This conversation where I implied you didn't exist (twice), were you conscious when it happened?

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No shit, Sherlock.  How about you actually read the post?  Back when a few folks said they simply preferred not seeing the word c**t in the forums as a matter of opinion not policy, you joined the chorus of "oh no censorship, you are talking away my freedom of speech, this is just like the OF now, the word has a different meaning blah blah blah".  And that was when someone asked politely.  So my point was, even if Helcawen didn't have the emotional reaction she did and simply asked W not to use the word, I have no doubt you would be spouting the "freedom of words" rhetoric you are now.  

 

Side note:  This conversation where I implied you didn't exist (twice), were you conscious when it happened?

Stop ranting and read what's written. Then come back to me.

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