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Developer Diary : Minstrel Class Changes in Helm’s Deep


cossieuk
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So you are intolerant person? You do not tolerate views that you don't agree with? Just want to clear this out for future references.

 

 

Correction, I don't tolerate views that are born from hatred and/or ignorance.  If I see a pretty girl walking in a parade with only a bikini on I am not repulsed or disgusted or find that I can't tolerate her.  It does nothing for me sexually mind you, but she doesn't threaten me with her voluptuous breasts and curvy figure.  I'm confident enough in my own sexuality for that sort of thing not to bother me.  I apologize if I confused you in any way.

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Amazing. We are on a gaming forum and in a class update/change thread and I ask a question pertaining to this class and its God Mode PvP history. Then... here comes someone telling me I cannot use the word "rape" in this context because it actually refers to someone being raped in real life.

Spare the Hell out of me.

People who tell others what they can, and can't, say have no business living amongst modern society. I have gone to war having served four combat tours and all along I kept telling myself I was in combat protecting the rights granted by the U.S. Constitution. Apparently, those rights I thought still existed no longer do. Free speech is no longer free but rather restricted out of fear of repercussion levied by those who blow things out of proportion and/or project themselves upon others.

I dare say I've been raped in here. Now... that IS a proper use of the word being well within context.

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Instead of saying "we totally and utterly obliterated the opposition", PvP people just can say "we raped them". In this context, this word simply explain what happened in one word and everyone gets it.

 

It just struck me why i keep saying, that for me usuage of word rape is nothing new. In the end it is the PvP communities that use this word is such contexts and why so many people here are not so familiar with usage of this word in gaming. I would risk a guess that majority of people here are not serious pvp'ers but just pve'ers where the word rape would be used much less.

 

I've played a lot of PvP and lot of FPS games, and frankly I've probably said something like "we got raped/we raped them" before myself.  Even if I haven't, I know I've been in groups with people who've said it and I've certainly never objected to them saying it nor have I asked them to stop.  Thinking that people probably shouldn't use the word in that context has nothing to do with being a PvE carebear who hasn't had enough exposure to the world of PvP, it has to do with recognizing that it's inappropriate and insensitive, and those arguing that as long as it's being used in a context other than discussing sexual assault are being asinine, or at least willfully ignorant.

 

The word has a (very) negative connotation.  Those using it in PvP are using it based on that negative connotation.  Much like the argument over calling things or people "gay", claiming that you mean something different by it and thus it's divested from its commonly understood or base meaning is, again, asinine.

 

Indian giver

Gypped

Jewed down

Nigger rig

 

All of these phrases have meanings that don't explicitly refer to the groups that are mentioned in them, but all are based on negative perceptions of those groups.  Some of you are essentially arguing that, "Yes, I use this phrase to mean these negative things, but it's totally unrelated to the fact that negative perceptions exist about this group".

 

Maybe the point can be made clearer by using an example dear to many of us on these forums: "turbined".  We sometimes say here that something that has been turbined because it's been screwed up beyond belief, or something good was turned into something bad.  We all know that we're not actually calling another company or person "Turbine", yet we all know that we're using "turbined" because "Turbine" has come to have a negative meaning for many of us.  (I'm not saying we should stop using the word, by the way, because Turbine is a corporation and corporations don't have feelings, so fuck 'em).

 

Anyway, I consider myself to be largely a free speech absolutist.  I don't think anyone should be stopped from saying whatever they want.  If nothing else, allowing people the freedom to say anything allows us to know who the real assholes are.  I just think that it's ignorant, insensitive, and in at least one case rather stupid to not even acknowledge how using someone's identity (as in calling things "gay") or a traumatic experience ("rape") can upset the people are are living or have lived through such things.

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Well said Thunderloin.

As to those infuriated by words... life is too bloody short to be riled up by mere words particularly given the fact we are here in a gaming forum.

I'm thinking one or more posters here are probably the same Turbine employees who banned me for using the word "ghey". If that is the case... such a pity.

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Free speech allows people to tell you to stop saying things that upset them, just as much as it lets you say them in the first place.  I am pretty sure there are no Turbine employees posting here, that would most likely be a sack able offence.

 

Also what the hell has the US constitution got to do with a forum based in the Netherlands.  

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Well said Thunderloin.

As to those infuriated by words... life is too bloody short to be riled up by mere words particularly given the fact we are here in a gaming forum.

I'm thinking one or more posters here are probably the same Turbine employees who banned me for using the word "ghey". If that is the case... such a pity.

Agreed, well said Thunderloin (although something tells me you stopped reading after the first few sentences).

 

I doubt you'll find any Turbine employees on this forum, but nice try.

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. I have gone to war having served four combat tours and all along I kept telling myself I was in combat protecting the rights granted by the U.S. Constitution. Apparently, those rights I thought still existed no longer do. Free speech is no longer free but rather restricted out of fear of repercussion levied by those who blow things out of proportion and/or project themselves upon others.

 

Maybe you should read that Constitution that you so bravely fought for. Free Speech pertains to the government PERIOD! It means the government can't curtail your free speech, And even then there are restrictions, such as, you can't yell FIRE!!!! in a crowded theater. It doesn't say anything about private or public boards, such as this one.

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Maybe you should read that Constitution that you so bravely fought for. Free Speech pertains to the government PERIOD! It means the government can't curtail your free speech, And even then there are restrictions, such as, you can't yell FIRE!!!! in a crowded theater. It doesn't say anything about private or public boards, such as this one.

 

And to add further to this.

It certainly doesn't say anything about a private/public forum located in another country!

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Maybe you should read that Constitution that you so bravely fought for. Free Speech pertains to the government PERIOD! It means the government can't curtail your free speech, And even then there are restrictions, such as, you can't yell FIRE!!!! in a crowded theater. It doesn't say anything about private or public boards, such as this one.

 

What are you talking about? We were discussing "Free Speech" in the context of this forum and in public.  The First Amendment applies to everyone within the United States.  Everyone.  Everyone are free to choose their religion, free to print what they so choose, free to say that which they so choose... all within reason (i.e. not slandering someone or otherwise violating libel laws which both subject folks to tort claims should they say/print the wrong thing)

 

Yes, there are exceptions to the above (i.e. we cannot yell out "Fire!" in a crowded movie theatre, we cannot tell someone we're going to murder them or otherwise seriously injure them) but perhaps we should stick to the topic at hand and quit going "off topic" anymore than we already have.

 

I'm fully versed with the U.S. Constitution having both a Juris Doctorate and a university Constitutional Law degree.

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What are you talking about? We were discussing "Free Speech" in the context of this forum and in public.  The First Amendment applies to everyone within the United States.  Everyone.  Everyone are free to choose their religion, free to print what they so choose, free to say that which they so choose... all within reason (i.e. not slandering someone or otherwise violating libel laws which both subject folks to tort claims should they say/print the wrong thing)

 

Yes, there are exceptions to the above (i.e. we cannot yell out "Fire!" in a crowded movie theatre, we cannot tell someone we're going to murder them or otherwise seriously injure them) but perhaps we should stick to the topic at hand and quit going "off topic" anymore than we already have.

 

I'm fully versed with the U.S. Constitution having both a Juris Doctorate and a university Constitutional Law degree.

 

There is no Free Speech on these forums.

There are forum rules that will be enforced that limit your "Free Speech" on these forums.

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What are you talking about? We were discussing "Free Speech" in the context of this forum and in public.  The First Amendment applies to everyone within the United States.  Everyone.  Everyone are free to choose their religion, free to print what they so choose, free to say that which they so choose... all within reason (i.e. not slandering someone or otherwise violating libel laws which both subject folks to tort claims should they say/print the wrong thing)

 

Yes, there are exceptions to the above (i.e. we cannot yell out "Fire!" in a crowded movie theatre, we cannot tell someone we're going to murder them or otherwise seriously injure them) but perhaps we should stick to the topic at hand and quit going "off topic" anymore than we already have.

 

I'm fully versed with the U.S. Constitution having both a Juris Doctorate and a university Constitutional Law degree.

The First Amendment applies to the governments curtailing of free speech, that's it! No government of the US, Federal, State, Local etc., can infringe upon your right to say what you want. But it doesn't apply to private parties. Example, if you write to your newspaper with an op/ed piece, letters to the Editor type thing,  they aren't required to print it, it's at their discretion. In other words, you can write what ever you want, but it doesn't mean anyone is required to publish it.

 

As someone with a doctorate and a law degree you should know this......and in case you don't. here it is in plain fucking English.

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]

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You can try and say what you want here, but if Muer (or any of the mods) doesnt like it then it will be removed.  This is Muer's forum and it is his rules

 

That point gets missed a lot.  Besides, the US Constitution has no force of law in the Netherlands.  Then again, people of the US also ignore it often (although they ought not to).  Oh well.

 

All I can say to Wosret is that you're always free to say something.  However, others are always free to respond to that something in the flavour that is specific to them.  In the end, the board owner is the final arbiter of what stays and what goes.

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That point gets missed a lot.  Besides, the US Constitution has no force of law in the Netherlands.  Then again, people of the US also ignore it often (although they ought not to).  Oh well.

 

Actually, the 1st Amendment wouldn't apply to a private forum like this even in the US. It applies only to the US Government, prohibiting said entity and its agents from restricting a person or persons right to free speech, to worship (or not) whatever deity they so choose, and to publish whatever they wish as a journalist. Private forums do not fall under these auspices, and those who run them may do so as they will, wherever they may be.

 

Just wanted to clarify that point.

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Free speech allows people to tell you to stop saying things that upset them, just as much as it lets you say them in the first place.  I am pretty sure there are no Turbine employees posting here, that would most likely be a sack able offence.

 

Also what the hell has the US constitution got to do with a forum based in the Netherlands.  

 

I always smile on any forum when people complain about people complaining, hmm #irony

 

 

PJ

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The word has a (very) negative connotation.  Those using it in PvP are using it based on that negative connotation.  Much like the argument over calling things or people "gay", claiming that you mean something different by it and thus it's divested from its commonly understood or base meaning is, again, asinine.

 

[rape]

[gay]

Indian giver

Gypped

Jewed down

Nigger rig

 

All of these phrases have meanings that don't explicitly refer to the groups that are mentioned in them, but all are based on negative perceptions of those groups.  Some of you are essentially arguing that, "Yes, I use this phrase to mean these negative things, but it's totally unrelated to the fact that negative perceptions exist about this group".

 

Maybe the point can be made clearer by using an example dear to many of us on these forums: "turbined".  We sometimes say here that something that has been turbined because it's been screwed up beyond belief, or something good was turned into something bad.  We all know that we're not actually calling another company or person "Turbine", yet we all know that we're using "turbined" because "Turbine" has come to have a negative meaning for many of us.  (I'm not saying we should stop using the word, by the way, because Turbine is a corporation and corporations don't have feelings, so fuck 'em).

 

Anyway, I consider myself to be largely a free speech absolutist.  I don't think anyone should be stopped from saying whatever they want.  If nothing else, allowing people the freedom to say anything allows us to know who the real assholes are.  I just think that it's ignorant, insensitive, and in at least one case rather stupid to not even acknowledge how using someone's identity (as in calling things "gay") or a traumatic experience ("rape") can upset the people are are living or have lived through such things.

Well said. There's a reason certain words are used with a negative connotation. It is because they were offensive in the first place (or at some point) that they get the cache of being a derogatory word. 

 

[Added a couple words.]

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I suggest those uneducated within internet gaming lingo conduct a search for chat word definitions.

One last time... The First Amendment applies to any and all within the United States... and guess where Turbine is located? That is right.

I'm thinking Turbine does their best to ban anyone who divulges their shortcomings/lies.

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One last time... The First Amendment applies to any and all within the United States... and guess where Turbine is located? That is right.

No, it doesn't. I'm not even American and I appear to understand it better than you do. The first amendment protects everyone in America from the government passing laws that limit free speech. Turbine are not the government, turbine can police there own forums however they see fit.

It is worth remembering, and I accept that I may well be corrected about this, but as far as I understand it 'free speech' just means the freedom to be critical of the government.

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