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LasraelLarson

So Helms Deep NDA has been lifted, but...

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The Beta forum remains hidden and...

 

Please note that while the NDA has been dropped, any copy and pasting of threads, posts, and other materials from the beta forums is not permitted. This is not the end of beta, and testing continues so some things may be subject to change before release.

 

 

hilarious.

 

i don't know which is stronger with this... fear, or cowardice.

 

thankfully these forums exist, so the adults can have actual conversations.

 

i am not in the beta, so all my impressions come from what they say & show, vs, what they do not.  actually something in the right hands that can be fairly accurate.  ;)

 

anyway beta folk, your muzzles have been removed, lets hear the variety of impressions.

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Sorry, free speech about HD has been gagged here. Any information will be deleted, as soon as someone comes over here to cry about it. The class changes can't be posted here unless someone here decides to make their own from scratch (which I tried but there's just too much shit to go through).

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I asked this in another thread, but has this been the case before? I thought with other betas, when the NDA dropped, Bullroarer became readable for all.

edit:

And I put this in another thread but suppose it's better here. So here's some spur of the moment, stream of conscious, not very well written stuffs:

And I can finally talk. I'm in Beta, though didn't do much.. as HD is fairly lame imo and given we were pretty much told that class changes were coming so sod off, I didn't feel there was much point in giving much feedback. I made a longish post about the LM changes, gave feedback for the BBs and filled out some bug reports, but I ended up feeling even more depressed about the state of Lotro if that can be believed. Loremasters seem to be getting off easier than the other classes, so my gameplay wasn't affected as much but I was really unhappy with my lack of choices. DPS LM just feels sluggish and not as fun now though.

And the Big Battles? Ugh.. just really, really bad. So damn boring, so damn confusing. Everything literally felt out of my control. Either you can afk and win them.. seriously.. I'd get gold medals for side objectives even though I never managed to figure out where the side objective was! or get completely overrun, though I think that was due to some horrendous lag in which the NPCs weren't able to get their skills off. In any case, even if people can deal with their class changes, there is no way BBs are going to be satisfying at endgame. They might have been a fun RTS-strategy side game for the people who like that sort of thing, but that's about it. I liked them less than skirmishes as skirmishes felt more random and they actually let me fight and depended on my skill for completion. Admittedly I only did solo/duo BBs. But still I think they won't be any better in groups. I have no desire to slowly crank, turn, load catapults or balistae that you can't even tell where they're hitting or if they're doing damage (the tried to copy GW2 siege equipment but failed) nor barking orders at NPCs.

The rest of it.. the quests.. same ol' same ol. Please pick up these boards and repair this fence. Please find my lost child. Go deliver this food or those weapons. Zomg the orcs are out there go kill them.

Some of the landscape looks nice, Edoras seems like it's breeding horse statues.. they're seriously EVERYWHERE and HD looks like it was built from legos when you first ride up to it. The interior is alright.

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I asked this in another thread, but has this been the case before? I thought with other betas, when the NDA dropped, Bullroarer became readable for all.

 

when NDA dropped in the past; i have always been able to see Bullroarer on the public pages.

 

this is a first.

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I wish someone would point that out on the official forums - what they are doing keeping BR forums hidden this time. If someone does post over there, I will see it, though.

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when NDA dropped in the past; i have always been able to see Bullroarer on the public pages.

 

this is a first.

In the past the Bullroarer forums became readable when beta became open, not when the NDA lifted. I believe beta still requires an invite or a key.

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In the past the Bullroarer forums became readable when beta became open, not when the NDA lifted. I believe beta still requires an invite or a key.

a well, open beta's have also usually happened by now, so you can see my confusion.

 

The BETA forums make for very uncomfortable reading(at least for Turbine) Lasrael lol.

no doubt.

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Might be wrong but I thought they always kept the Beta Forums closed, at the very least until/if they have an open Beta. Not that this was far from open...

 

One of the main things I took away from Beta is that players are going to challenged with waves of frustration.

 

First they have to deal with the shock of adjusting to the trait trees. I'd like to note that imo the Tress offer much more diversity than the old system did. That does come at the price of not having all the skills we're used to having available at all times.

 

Then there is a current bug in the quickbar memory system. I have a workaround for it, if it doesn't get fixed before launch I'll be sure to post it here also. But this bug is a nightmare for those that encounter it and nonexistent for some. Add to that some functionality you'd expect to be there isn't.

 

After/if players get over the Tree and quickbar shock they'll have to deal with Big Battles, which unless they come up with a far better tutorial, is a massive clusterfuck the first few times you go in. They are easily figured out after a few runs but those first couple runs can leave you feeling clueless and out of control. They're also not alot of fun for tank specced players at all.

 

All in all it's pretty much as normal for the last few releases beyond the shock value. If/when players get over it, there's some fun to be had depending on your focus. If you're a raid-centric player you'll be very disappointed, if you're a more casual raid style player it's kinda middle of the road, RP'ers and lore visitors will love it.

 

ymmv

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I did snag one of those beta codes they have been giving out to everyone some time ago.  I did install Lotro first time in really really long time (think time-frame that start with letter 'y'). 

 

What has happened to this game? Seriously. 

 

Some parts of landscape look half-decently for 6 year old game, but that's it.  

 

Helm Deep battles are a joke.  I thought that skirmishes were bad, but I was wrong. This is - I don't know how to call it.  I don't see where are good sides of this battles things.  I really do not. This is not a post or sentence wrote to hate, just honest opinion.

 

Quests - so you can click to teleport to quest, so you click -> get teleported -> click on someone who says something (or go kill X things that cannot realistically harm you) -> go to someone -> get something -> click to teleport. Ugh.

 

Hobbit presents - you can actually use it to shower yourself with stuff - to equip youself from top to bottom in armor, gold, legendary items stuff, buffs, etc  + look tawdry,  immersion breaking and facebook-games like as hell.

 

There are NPCs in game that do sell stuff for real-life money (read Mithril coins).  Srsly? I thought that manequins when I saw screens with them were bad, but well this I don't even...

 

Odd things:   There is some music from SoA areas (Bree-land, Lone-lands? I don't remember) playing in some parts of Rohan.   Faces of NPCs are much more detailed than faces of player characters. Look odd as hell.   

Item level - seriously?  *facepalm*

 

 

I just see no 'magic' left in this game anymore. My memories got shattered.

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I'd like to note that imo the Tress offer much more diversity than the old system did. That does come at the price of not having all the skills we're used to having available at all times.

I really don't understand how you can come away with that opinion. You even say, we won't have all the same skills available at the same time.. so right there, less diversity. I can only use LM as an example but I can no longer be ancient master/yellow traited and have Ents. I couldn't take really any of the traits similar to what red ones I we once had along with mainly yellow. If I trait red, I can't really get to the 'my skills use less morale' trait any more.. which used to be a red trait (or well is, for two more weeks.) I could come up with more.

I don't see how the fact is any other than they're forcing people down one of three main builds. The out-of-spec penalty and deeply buried traits restricts so much choice.

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I know... this will shock some of you to the degree that your hair will stand on end and maybe we'll even get another Wilfred gif...

 

There are player guides available on the public side of the LoTRO forums (no sign-in required) in the Character Creation and Development sub-forum under the various class headers.

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So what happens to all our virtues? Still there? Poof they're gone?

 

Still there. 18 is max now. Increasingly irrelevant. Relics are going the same way as of b5. They just suck for the amount of grind expected. We're talking such marginal increases that they may as well have not bothered.

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I really don't understand how you can come away with that opinion. You even say, we won't have all the same skills available at the same time.. so right there, less diversity. I can only use LM as an example but I can no longer be ancient master/yellow traited and have Ents. I couldn't take really any of the traits similar to what red ones I we once had along with mainly yellow. If I trait red, I can't really get to the 'my skills use less morale' trait any more.. which used to be a red trait (or well is, for two more weeks.) I could come up with more.

I don't see how the fact is any other than they're forcing people down one of three main builds. The out-of-spec penalty and deeply buried traits restricts so much choice.

 

Diversity in builds is what I meant not diversity is skills. Sorry I didn't clarify that.

 

There are several options. even a straight build only needs to go 35 points to get their capstone, that leaves 25 points or 12 ranks at lvl 85 and 35 points or 17 ranks in an unspecialized tree which gets you to T3 or several T1/T2's at 85 or as deep as T4 at level 95`  and For several classes that leaves very viable choices and diversity in builds, there are classes that really don't want/need the capstone which allows them to go even farther in other trees, some classes, notably the hunter and RK have some very interesting options choosing one specialization and traiting down a different tree. Have you seen what a Huntsman/Trapper build along these lines can do? RK's dropping both healing and damage stones at the same time.

 

If you only look at Skills I 100% agree that there is less diversity. If you work with just viable builds there is way more diversity than currently. This is going to be seen moreso by solo players and static/kin groups who can discuss and trait around each other. PuG's are likely to suffer because leaders will want consistency among groups and ask for straight builds I think

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Might be wrong but I thought they always kept the Beta Forums closed, at the very least until/if they have an open Beta. Not that this was far from open...

 

One of the main things I took away from Beta is that players are going to challenged with waves of frustration.

 

First they have to deal with the shock of adjusting to the trait trees. I'd like to note that imo the Tress offer much more diversity than the old system did. That does come at the price of not having all the skills we're used to having available at all times.

 

Then there is a current bug in the quickbar memory system. I have a workaround for it, if it doesn't get fixed before launch I'll be sure to post it here also. But this bug is a nightmare for those that encounter it and nonexistent for some. Add to that some functionality you'd expect to be there isn't.

 

After/if players get over the Tree and quickbar shock they'll have to deal with Big Battles, which unless they come up with a far better tutorial, is a massive clusterfuck the first few times you go in. They are easily figured out after a few runs but those first couple runs can leave you feeling clueless and out of control. They're also not alot of fun for tank specced players at all.

 

All in all it's pretty much as normal for the last few releases beyond the shock value. If/when players get over it, there's some fun to be had depending on your focus. If you're a raid-centric player you'll be very disappointed, if you're a more casual raid style player it's kinda middle of the road, RP'ers and lore visitors will love it.

 

ymmv

Just dealing with the current class traits system vs. the upcoming skill trees alone, I'm not sure how there can be more diversity.

 

With 24 class traits and 7 slots, we have 346,104 possible different combinations of traits: 24!/7!(24-7)! -> see here for the explanation.

 

That doesn't include the nearly 35 possible combinations of our seven legendary traits in three slots: 7!/3!(7-3)! - although this latter figure is actually less than 35, as we can't combine the three capstone legendary traits at all.  Regardless, we're still talking about over 346,000 possible combinations of class traits under the current system.

 

I haven't done the math on the new skill trees since I haven't seen them, I'd be interested to see someone prove that there are more than 346,000 ways to spend our skill tree points, especially considering that points have to be spent on X to get access to Y, and spending too much in tree B cuts off the deeper parts of trees A and C (along with the double point penalty for spending outside of one's main spec).

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anyway beta folk, your muzzles have been removed, lets hear the variety of impressions.

BETA forums "should" be open for all to see...

 

I posted this in another thread...

 

NDA lifted... I can say that IMO Helm's Deep is simply dreadful.

 

If they had made a "Trait" tree it could have had some real potential... But they created a horrid mess by placing skills inside the Tree and ruining a game experience I've enjoyed for years.

 

It will probably appeal to the casual / PvE player base as it is more simplified and I suspect the final product will be so OP in DPS trees that auto-attack will equate to a +5 Vorpal sword of nuclear devastation.

 

For many PvE / casual players IMO moar DPS = improvement.

 

The Huge Battles are a complete mess as well. They are "supposed" to give a feel of anarchy as we rush around attempting to stay ahead of an ever changing battle condition. I does achieve anarchy very well... I have no clue what is going on or what needs to be done or where it needs to be done or how it needs to be done... and yet I've stood there with my thumb up my behind in confusion and STILL MANAGED TO WIN. I found this simply amazing that it was considered ready for BETA and perhaps even considered ready to go live?

 

I can only hope that there is enough negative feedback in the "bottom line" category that it will result in a roll back and that the process begins before 2014.

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Diversity in builds is what I meant not diversity is skills. Sorry I didn't clarify that.

No, I got what you mean. I think the problem is the devs have build both a skill and trait tree. I did talk about red traits, not just skills. I still believe we have less diverse builds.

Have you seen what a Huntsman/Trapper build along these lines can do? RK's dropping both healing and damage stones at the same time.

I don't know enough about hunter anymore to even be looking at it. But from what I've read, quite a lot was taken away. Same for RKs.

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Honestly I was surprised that they actually lifted the NDA before the fail train arrived.

 

Pretty excited to see how the fanbois are gonna get out of this one -O-

 

Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif

 

Let the games begin

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..... the major factor behind incorporating the skill trees was not to balance the classes, but to try to balance the players behind the classes, the ones behind the looking-glass, something that could not be done with fellowship maneouvers.

Removing skills and choices removes the ability to rise or fall beyond the median. In order to make most of the content viable for most everyone, the challenge of that content was weakened significantly. In an attempt to have the same content be at least a bit challenging for the better players, our ability to decide our fate in combat has been reduced through the removal of choice and variety.


I thought this was a rather good sentiment from one of the beta testers concerning the class revisions and skill trees.



 Anyway, < been a HD beta tester since B0, ask me anything.

 

  • Upvote 1

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But is there boars???

 

Edit: I will say that the feed back from my kin is mixed. Most will ride this game to the end more because of the IP than the actual game which is sad since they will end up paying for more garbage.  I can see they are hesitant to endorse this mess but unfortunately they have no choice. Its the only LOTRO out there.

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Might be wrong but I thought they always kept the Beta Forums closed, at the very least until/if they have an open Beta. Not that this was far from open...

 

One of the main things I took away from Beta is that players are going to challenged with waves of frustration.

 

First they have to deal with the shock of adjusting to the trait trees. I'd like to note that imo the Tress offer much more diversity than the old system did. That does come at the price of not having all the skills we're used to having available at all times.

 

Then there is a current bug in the quickbar memory system. I have a workaround for it, if it doesn't get fixed before launch I'll be sure to post it here also. But this bug is a nightmare for those that encounter it and nonexistent for some. Add to that some functionality you'd expect to be there isn't.

 

After/if players get over the Tree and quickbar shock they'll have to deal with Big Battles, which unless they come up with a far better tutorial, is a massive clusterfuck the first few times you go in. They are easily figured out after a few runs but those first couple runs can leave you feeling clueless and out of control. They're also not alot of fun for tank specced players at all.

 

All in all it's pretty much as normal for the last few releases beyond the shock value. If/when players get over it, there's some fun to be had depending on your focus. If you're a raid-centric player you'll be very disappointed, if you're a more casual raid style player it's kinda middle of the road, RP'ers and lore visitors will love it.

 

ymmv

 

 

I think it's safe to assume that the casual/RP/lore crowd is who they hope to attract (most likely in that order) now.

 

I am still boggled as to why the class changes seem to look like they would encourage team play, but at the same time they downplay the need for new raids and team-specific activity. As is stands, I can't see this making pugs more popular and will only reinforce solo play.

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