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General class banter

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That would depend, I think, on what kind of mobs they are killing.  Landscape?  Instances?  What tier instances?  Etc.

 

Edit: I never kept track, but when I was running BFE and BG instances as well as the 6mans for stuff, I saw stat tomes drop many many times.  But I also opened lootboxes that I got from drops along with keys I got from drops (never purchased them in store) and got quite a few tomes that way.  People could reasonably expect to get them this way as well.

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WOW guys!  I leave for Thanksgiving break and all hell broke loose, lol. Apparently, there was not enough triptophan going around at least not in this thread :P

 

I am fairly agog at the lootbox/stat tome thing.  I can't tell you the absurd amount of money I made selling those things... because, well... it was absurd! lol  But both the boxes AND the tomes - on the AH, not to mention keys for the lootboxes by the way, as to me they seemed to drop like flies everywhere I went.  I was not one to buy accelerators to grind mob deeds and what with 8 chars, I was killing stuff everywhere all the time.  I did not have a single toon that did not get all the tomes I wanted let alone to spare for sale... as it was, it really is boggling how much people would pay for them.  That and the +5% dmg...just incredible.  I still don't get why ppl buy them from the store.

 

Horselords recipes and other gold drops in Rohan were another matter entirely and I don't seem them as being a good comparison point. 

 

For me the end really started with the lack of real raids coupled with the rediculous issue of Harwick farming going unchecked for so long, and then 1st agers being dropped in T1 raids.  Both the economy and the game went to hell in the worst way after that if you ask me.   The fact that people in game would also diss raiders on this point also smacked of hypocrasy to me, considering everyone was all too happy to throw money at the AH for items they were not only unwilling to grind for themselves, but which they were insisting nobody really needed  in the first place so stop "bitching about the drop rate" - a complete oxymoron.

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Spiteful, could you express in a number how likely a given player is to find stat tomes per -say- 100 hours of gameplay?

 

 

I wouldn't believe an answer anyone gave to such a question. RNG's are Random. I've seen as many as 4 drop in a night of kin runs and gone for a month or more of kin runs and not seen even one drop.

 

That's no different then any other rare drop in game, for example I had Emerald Shards drop from the first 2 nodes I hit in HD. Two 95's with a third at 90 later and not another Shard. Most of the kin hasn't had even one drop but then yesterday another kin mate had 5 drop over the course of the day.

 

So, no I couldn't nor would I even attempt such an answer. The only thing I would say, at least on my server, if one played 5 hrs a day, within 20 days they could get any Tome they wanted via the AH or Trade, if all that time was spent in instances they could see anywhere from 0-X Tomes drop.

 

Since HD Launch we've spent most of out time leveling and in EB's, the other night we ran WP, GT, School, IP, Stoneheight, our Capt Healer had a Fate 9 drop in IP. That's very little time invested for a Tome drop. Tomorrow we could see 4 or we could see 0, no idea, we could go a month without seeing another drop, but in that time I'm very certain I could have any T9 Tome I want, if I have or am willing to get the resources to buy or trade for it.

 

It could be that it seems easier  to me because I really don't stress about BiS items. I target what I need to complete the content we're doing and if something better drops yay, if not who cares. I had no first agers in RoR, we were doing BfE T2, Smaug T2, Flight T1, and for that content First Agers were just not needed at all. I went into HD with something like 4000 Seals, which converted and I used to get Emp Scrolls for my Second Ages on the RK and Hunter, obviously I had a lot of Medallions to start with even before the conversion. And honestly, past lvl 65 Tomes are really not a must have, but then I don't think they are a must have at lower levels but the advantage they give at lower levels is very noticeable.

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WOW guys!  I leave for Thanksgiving break and all hell broke loose, lol. Apparently, there was not enough triptophan going around at least not in this thread :P

 

I am fairly agog at the lootbox/stat tome thing.  I can't tell you the absurd amount of money I made selling those things... because, well... it was absurd! lol  But both the boxes AND the tomes - on the AH, not to mention keys for the lootboxes by the way, as to me they seemed to drop like flies everywhere I went.  I was not one to buy accelerators to grind mob deeds and what with 8 chars, I was killing stuff everywhere all the time.  I did not have a single toon that did not get all the tomes I wanted let alone to spare for sale... as it was, it really is boggling how much people would pay for them.  That and the +5% dmg...just incredible.  I still don't get why ppl buy them from the store.

 

Horselords recipes and other gold drops in Rohan were another matter entirely and I don't seem them as being a good comparison point. 

 

For me the end really started with the lack of real raids coupled with the rediculous issue of Harwick farming going unchecked for so long, and then 1st agers being dropped in T1 raids.  Both the economy and the game went to hell in the worst way after that if you ask me.   The fact that people in game would also diss raiders on this point also smacked of hypocrasy to me, considering everyone was all too happy to throw money at the AH for items they were not only unwilling to grind for themselves, but which they were insisting nobody really needed  in the first place so stop "bitching about the drop rate" - a complete oxymoron.

Very good post. Agree 100%

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I wouldn't believe an answer anyone gave to such a question. RNG's are Random. I've seen as many as 4 drop in a night of kin runs and gone for a month or more of kin runs and not seen even one drop.

Sorry but I found the RNG on this to be non-existent since it was seemed nearly guaranteed that if you got 4 lootboxes, a stat tome would be in at least one.  That is how it worked out for me very often.  So you can choose to disbelieve of course, but that was my experience.  Lootboxes always had them and lootboxes were very, very easy to acquire.

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Oh, I don't doubt you. I'm not sure if I've ever pulled one from a Lootbox, but I don't really open them much, selling them is just to lucrative as you said. Another reason is I have decent luck on boxes but can't get keys to save my life, and for me buying the keys on the Store is out and the 9-15g for them, depending on current demand, isn't worth it to me, so to the AH go the boxes. If I could pop them and get Stat Tomes that regularly, I might have to rethink that.  :D

 

Also I agree with your other post, and welcome back from Thanksgiving, hope you had a good time!

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Sorry but I found the RNG on this to be non-existent since it was seemed nearly guaranteed that if you got 4 lootboxes, a stat tome would be in at least one.  That is how it worked out for me very often.  So you can choose to disbelieve of course, but that was my experience.  Lootboxes always had them and lootboxes were very, very easy to acquire.

Lootboxes don't count for my inquiry about stat tome drop rate, unless you now fold in the probability of finding a key. Otherwise it's just like buying the tome in the store directly.

Spiteful, I understand probabilities and computer random number generation well. Try me and give an actual probability. Not counting tomes in lockboxes which is circular reasoning.

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Keeping in mind I in no way claim the figure as accurate, and I have no doubt that your understanding of higher level math and computer operations far exceeds mine.

 

I think a group of players who spent their maximum amount of time cycling through 3's and 6's, could likely expect to see anywhere from 0-6 Tomes in any 100 hr cycle, having to pick an actual number I'd say I would expect them to see 3 in any given cycle. That would be total among the group not per individual.

 

One strange thing, or at least strange to me, and maybe you can explain it, is that I expected to see an increase in drops such as Tomes, Emp.Scrolls, Relic Removal Scrolls etc. when the loot system changed. In my experience the frequency of drops for these types of items remained fairy steady despite each chest now being multiple chests when opened.

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I think a group of players who spent their maximum amount of time cycling through 3's and 6's, could likely expect to see anywhere from 0-6 Tomes in any 100 hr cycle, having to pick an actual number I'd say I would expect them to see 3 in any given cycle. That would be total among the group not per individual.

So the drop rate would be 1/33 hours of play time? I have never seen anybody involved in the discussions on the official forum put it that high. 33 hours is so low even I reach it and I sure never got a stat tome. I'm not a good example since my play hours are too low now.

However, this would be easy to poll with the forum members since people probably remember how many stat tomes they got and then we can put it against /played.

One strange thing, or at least strange to me, and maybe you can explain it, is that I expected to see an increase in drops such as Tomes, Emp.Scrolls, Relic Removal Scrolls etc. when the loot system changed. In my experience the frequency of drops for these types of items remained fairy steady despite each chest now being multiple chests when opened.

Of course Turbine can set them to whatever they want. And they do. From many people's observations the stat tomes are kept deliberately at an impractical rate, except for lootboxes which as I said doesn't count when you want to judge whether Turbine is trying to pull a short one and/or practices gambling for real-world money.

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Oh I know Turbine sets and can change the rate. I wouldn't expect such apparent fine tuned control over an RNG for a specific item. It feels more like a set rate even though in practice it doesn't behave that way. I agree and have said many times that they are low and that is what they want. I would have expected going from one roll on one chest to 3 or 6 rolls on one chest that some fluctuation should have been easily observable.

 

Well actually I said "I in no way claim the number to be accurate". I don't believe a factual number can be given. I gave what I felt might be right because you asked, I declined to answer, and you asked again, so I gave a number. I also quantified it as "in any given 100 hr cycle" meaning in any given cycle a group might see that many, and another might see more or less. I also said that the number was for the group overall so in a given cycle some would get a drop and others would not. I also said 3's and 6's and that they could see 0.

 

I fail to see how out of that one comes up with 1/33. I fully conceded the number is made up, it felt right to me, I don't keep logs of drops and I couldn't tell you how many I got where or the time frame between them.

 

Maybe it would be more correct to say that with in any given 100 hr cycle I think it's likely 4 Tomes drop server wide? But again there is no way of knowing, and I certainly don't claim it as factual either.

 

I'm not sure what the point was, unless it was to bait me to give an answer to a question I don't think can be answered correctly. It proves nothing. Pretty much everyone, including myself will say that on an individual basis the drop rate and or delivery system for Tomes is terrible, do we really need a poll to agree on what we already agree on? Or a poll to prove what I said was not an accurate number is not an accurate number?

 

The only thing that would be even semi accurate would be if one could know how many tomes dropped across an entire server over a 24 hour period and that number remained fairly constant over several 24 hour periods. Get that info and then there would be something that could be reasonably analysed.

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Oh I know Turbine sets and can change the rate. I wouldn't expect such apparent fine tuned control over an RNG for a specific item. It feels more like a set rate even though in practice it doesn't behave that way. I agree and have many times that tey are low and that is what they want. I would have expected going from one roll on one chest to 3 or 6 rolls on one chest that some fluctuation should have been easily observable.

 

 

The following is anecdotal only, of course, but it's my observation.

 

I believe that the drop rates were adjusted post-loot system change in an effort to keep the overall loot rate consistent (in other words, if you could expect to see item X appear once every three runs of a 6-man under the previous system, the rate was changed so that it would appear once every 18 "rolls" under the new system).

 

Obviously, I don't know what the exact numbers were for any item before or after the change, but I think the anecdotal evidence of my experience - and the experience of many other group-oriented players across all servers - seems to point to a deliberate lowering of the drop rate for items of teal quality and above (in other words, the only items anybody really wants).  Furthermore, the anecdotes also seem to indicate that in some cases - meaning in a few specific instance clusters - the rate was adjusted to be so low as to ultimately prove discouraging.  (The Fornost cluster in particular, if memory serves: groups reported spending 2-3 hours farming Fornost Water, clearing the place a dozen times or more, and seeing something like one teal total for the entire night; compare that to Sambrog, in which a group would be hard-pressed to leave with less than a teal per run).

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The following is anecdotal only, of course, but it's my observation.

 

I believe that the drop rates were adjusted post-loot system change in an effort to keep the overall loot rate consistent (in other words, if you could expect to see item X appear once every three runs of a 6-man under the previous system, the rate was changed so that it would appear once every 18 "rolls" under the new system).

 

Obviously, I don't know what the exact numbers were for any item before or after the change, but I think the anecdotal evidence of my experience - and the experience of many other group-oriented players across all servers - seems to point to a deliberate lowering of the drop rate for items of teal quality and above (in other words, the only items anybody really wants).  Furthermore, the anecdotes also seem to indicate that in some cases - meaning in a few specific instance clusters - the rate was adjusted to be so low as to ultimately prove discouraging.  (The Fornost cluster in particular, if memory serves: groups reported spending 2-3 hours farming Fornost Water, clearing the place a dozen times or more, and seeing something like one teal total for the entire night; compare that to Sambrog, in which a group would be hard-pressed to leave with less than a teal per run).

 

Ah, ok, that makes sense to me, thank you.

 

Yes Fornost was terrible for Teals, funny that it was the place I got one of my 2 gold class item drops. The only good thing about Fornost was the Quest Medallion Rewards in all of them and the Seal Rewards from Shadow. Stoneheight and NC Farms was terrible also. You can do Sammy faster since it can be done in what 2 or 3 pulls but that doesn't compensate for the damn near non existent drop rate in the Fornost/ITA clusters. ITA was especially disappointing because it was a good place to farm relics and IXP before the loot change and now even that is gone.

 

Then again we could have a situation like WP where the damned Bracelet wouldn't drop for guards so you had to take a Capt or I forget the other class if you wanted it on your guard.

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Lootboxes don't count for my inquiry about stat tome drop rate, unless you now fold in the probability of finding a key. Otherwise it's just like buying the tome in the store directly.

Spiteful, I understand probabilities and computer random number generation well. Try me and give an actual probability. Not counting tomes in lockboxes which is circular reasoning.

Call it circular reasoning all you like.  Both the stupid keys and the lootboxes drop at a fairly rediculous rate if you are grinding mob deeds.  Get one or two keys and then all you get is more keys after that because many of the boxes also have keys, even when they don't have anything else useful. 

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Ok, so if groups ran content they were likely to see more of these drops? So doesn't that tend to mean then that if someone wasn't running this content they wouldn't see this? That would tend to support that drops outside of group content are FAR worse than in, and that if someone wasn't doing these, that they were consistently seeing the very short end of a very long stick. That would also support my position that the drop rate is kept extremely rare/not at all for all intents and purposes outside of running group content. You can't assume that certain drops that show up in one set of content but not others is considered available or reasonably available, as some people don't have the time to group, or can't find a group (becoming an issue more often I'm sure now), or aren't inclined to group, as grouping isn't an issue that should be considered when providing a drop of something that can be found in a store. Or more to the point, gating a reward behind content that people may never use isn't what I call available, especially if they don't make people aware of such things.

 

Now if Turbine want's to clearly state that stat tomes can only be found in certain content, then name said content, at least they are providing an avenue for people, and no one can claim they aren't making them available as people would know where to go to get them (although I'd still call it shyte, not a guarantee, but at least convenience of store would meaningfully apply).

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I thought Turbine's always been fairly clear that these were mostly Instance drops? They were later added to Lootboxes, and possibly Warbands, not sure at all about that.

 

But here, lets do an exercise in how available they are, list me 10 Tomes any variety and rank. I'll screenshot them from the AH or a Trade Channel offer and I'll do it within a month.

 

I understand the prices may be, read will be, a lot, but I'm willing to say I can prove any 10 specific Tomes can be bought off the AH or acquired via Trade without doing one piece of group content in a month or less.

 

Now if we want to talk about how the rarity drives high prices or encourages people to use the Store, that's a discussion. Want to talk about there should be a different delivery method or tier implementation, I'm right there with you. But to say that Tomes are not available is just plain incorrect.

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Any that I ever got were from lootboxes. None of them were something I could use. On the other hand I can't discount the fact that I did sell them for some lucrative (to me) amount.

 

These days that would buy consumables for a skirm through tuck.

 

Skirmish marks: one more mechanic that they almost succeeded in getting close a few times but pretty much set on fire and kicked down the hill.

 

gawd if I could go in and redesign, I wouldn't need new content!

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"Skirmish marks: one more mechanic that they almost succeeded in getting close a few times but pretty much set on fire and kicked down the hill."

 

This should be one of their catch phrases

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Some of you have diarrhea of the keyboard :P

Agree with this.

While I just couldn't make myself read every post of the last couple of pages, I do feel to point out two things

1) Is there really people that has problems getting non-store tomes? Because I for one have to agree that they drop very frequently.

2) If you're DPSing in BBs you're (probably) doing it wrong. There's very, very few places in BBs where you're supposed to DPS. And if you do insist on doing damage, go grab a ballista and set up (couple this with tripwires in the right place and you'll see what real DPS looks like in HD)

Now, to move back on topic, anyone tried out a yellow traited cappy, it makes all the other OP classes in HD look underpowered...

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