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Fredelas
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I never found the other council member overly opinionated, and is/was always receptive of others' ideas so don't think it's who you think freija :D I actually think the other multiple PC members in one kinship isn't on BW ;)

Edit - I believe Thunder may be spot on with his guess there...

 

Yeah, that's what left me questioning it.  The other one is a really good guy - definitely not overly opinionated or dismissive.  But I honestly thought mine was the only kinship with more than one council member.  I seem to have been mistaken.

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Obviously this is just anecdotal evidence, but I have to imagine that he and I aren't the only two raiders who are also housing decoration carebears. :)

A lot of the people I raided with were big on getting the cool decorations as well.

But there aren't any raids to get that stuff from anymore... and of course raiders would rather actually have, you know, raids to play first before housing gets worked on. :P

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(On a side note, doesn't the Lonely Mountain Band have 3+ PC members?)

 

You betcha.  Fix a music bug (before real gameplay bugs and lag) in time for a major player event, and you'll have its organizers married to Turbine for life.

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I'd love Sapience to lose his CM gig and someone respectful getting the job, but I won't hold my breath.

 

Rick is doing exactly the job his bosses want him to do, so there is little chance he will lose that gig anytime soon. Does his actions drive longtime players away? Sure, but they are likely Lifers, so nothing lost for Turbine there... and if they aren't, Turbine considers most players easily replaceable, so again, nothing is lost for them.

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Rick is doing exactly the job his bosses want him to do, so there is little chance he will lose that gig anytime soon. Does his actions drive longtime players away? Sure, but they are likely Lifers, so nothing lost for Turbine there... and if they aren't, Turbine considers most players easily replaceable, so again, nothing is lost for them.

 

Well, I know a slew of Lifers/VIPs who didn't buy HD - won't buy anymore TP, etc. That's a decent chunk of change they aren't getting.

If such is their mindset (and I'm not saying it isn't), I think we're seeing how it's not at all easy to replace them. There is no new market niche for a game such as this. After the initial rush post-F2P, they have no big cards left to play to get people in the door. Mounted Combat didn't do it. Helm's Deep didn't do it - and nothing in the future will do it.

 

They should have held onto the little dedicated share of the market they had - because they had an extremely loyal player-base.

Had.

 

If WB is that content with the job that Sap is doing, then I feel even better about not supporting LotRO.

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Rick is doing exactly the job his bosses want him to do, so there is little chance he will lose that gig anytime soon. Does his actions drive longtime players away? Sure, but they are likely Lifers, so nothing lost for Turbine there... and if they aren't, Turbine considers most players easily replaceable, so again, nothing is lost for them.

 

Yes I must agree with you there. He doesn't seem too concerned about alienating players on the forums, that's for sure. I know more than a couple beta testers from my server who quit playing the game because of the way they were treated on the beta forum during HD beta. They got completely disgusted with the disrespect and left for GW2 and Rift. 

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I think Sapience has some close friends in Turbine management that back him no matter what. WB management I would guess have no clue how bad it is - and would be quite shocked to see anyone treat customers so badly and insultingly. Clearly Sapience doesn't like players for the most part - unless they are telling him how cute he is and talking about cookies. He doesn't want any critical feedback on the game - that is for sure.

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I think Sapience has some close friends in Turbine management that back him no matter what. WB management I would guess have no clue how bad it is - and would be quite shocked to see anyone treat customers so badly and insultingly. Clearly Sapience doesn't like players for the most part - unless they are telling him how cute he is and talking about cookies. He doesn't want any critical feedback on the game - that is for sure.

 

As long as the revenue and profit targets are met then WB will tolerate him and whatever excuses he gives for his behaviour. But... once those revenues go down, which they are judging by the number of sales they've got on, the speed at which HD has been discounted and their "change of strategy" re expacs then no one's job there is safe.

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As long as the revenue and profit targets are met then WB will tolerate him and whatever excuses he gives for his behaviour. But... once those revenues go down, which they are judging by the number of sales they've got on, the speed at which HD has been discounted and their "change of strategy" re expacs then no one's job there is safe.

 

Kate's 2014 "Surprise": At some point during the year, the game gets shut down, without any forewarning whatsoever. Employees show up to Turbine HQ to find the locks changed and a note on the door saying they will receive their final checks in the mail, while Security staff hand out boxes of personal belongings to each employee, from their now-emptied desks.

 

Would not surprise me at all.

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I think Sapience has some close friends in Turbine management that back him no matter what. WB management I would guess have no clue how bad it is - and would be quite shocked to see anyone treat customers so badly and insultingly. Clearly Sapience doesn't like players for the most part - unless they are telling him how cute he is and talking about cookies. He doesn't want any critical feedback on the game - that is for sure.

 

My take is that Sapience thinks all players are kids/teenagers and should be treated like those, not realizing the vast majority of the player base are adults over 25.

 

Meghan "Patience" Jenks treated everyone as adult gamers (unless they behaved like idiots, obviously), and she was an adult gamer herself.

Rick "Sapience" Heaton treats everyone like a kid who should shut up and use mom's credit card in the cash shop (except those who brown nose him, even if those behave like idiots). Suck Rick's dick, and you have you free pass to break any forum rules you want, including insulting other members who happen to not suck dicks.

 

It's obvious who is the best community manager and who should never have been in charge of a community.

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As long as the revenue and profit targets are met [...]

There's no way they are met. The login numbers will mean something, especially considering that Turbine has taken several steps to artificially inflate the number of logins/user/day.

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The login numbers will mean something, especially considering that Turbine has taken several steps to artificially inflate the number of logins/user/day.

 

This doesn't really concern me. Pretty much every game I play has some activity designed to get me to log in daily. Of course, I'd like something more fun to do every day than click on a hobbit present and collect a few epic battle promotion points.

 

But no matter how gimmicky or grindy LOTRO's daily activities are, I can't fault Turbine for including them. I would be more concerned if there was no reason at all to log in daily.

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This doesn't really concern me. Pretty much every game I play has some activity designed to get me to log in daily. Of course, I'd like something more fun to do every day than click on a hobbit present and collect a few epic battle promotion points.

 

But no matter how gimmicky or grindy LOTRO's daily activities are, I can't fault Turbine for including them. I would be more concerned if there was no reason at all to log in daily.

You got me wrong. I was merely pointing out that whatever revenue expectations had been set for LOTRO are pretty unlikely to be met in 2013. HD's login numbers are lower than 12 months ago and many of the new login number pushers were implemented between those. So either the pushers don't work or it is even worse than it looks.

Hey guys I updated the comments document again.  Figured I would post here for more people to see it rather than edit my original, buried post:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IkbJWFWdLbAUq7M7Nt3Z25Qd_AGcjrcSQucO8ovGxvU/edit?usp=sharing

Nice work.

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You got me wrong. I was merely pointing out that whatever revenue expectations had been set for LOTRO are pretty unlikely to be met in 2013. HD's login numbers are lower than 12 months ago and many of the new login number pushers were implemented between those. So either the pushers don't work or it is even worse than it looks.

 

The numbers may not be up, but they're actually pretty stable, and this is a condition Turbine can work with. It might mean a reduced workforce with reduced output, but it's still a situation Turbine can operate under and plan for. The most recent producer's letter seems to be trying to reduce players' expectations to match this reality.

 

Even though absolutely no new content was released in the six months prior to HD, players were still logging in about 1.5 million times a week throughout that entire period. The steady decline of the past three years appears to have leveled off. You'll have more precise numbers to investigate this than I have, but just a casual eyeball of the login charts suggests to me that LOTRO may have reached a stable plateau in terms of player activity.

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The numbers may not be up, but they're actually pretty stable, and this is a condition Turbine can work with. It might mean a reduced workforce with reduced output, but it's still a situation Turbine can operate under and plan for. The most recent producer's letter seems to be trying to reduce players' expectations to match this reality.

 

Even though absolutely no new content was released in the six months prior to HD, players were still logging in about 1.5 million times a week throughout that entire period. The steady decline of the past three years appears to have leveled off. You'll have more precise numbers to investigate this than I have, but just a casual eyeball of the login charts suggests to me that LOTRO may have reached a stable plateau in terms of player activity.

Of course they are stable they are down so far now they cant fall any further, the only players that are left are the ones that will NEVER leave no matter what happens, the people that log in for the lore and scenery and to check in with kinnies.

 

Turbine might well be able to work with that knowledge but the questions is to what extent? do those players that are left generate enough income to keep the game going? and by that I dont mean enough income to produce the quality that is currently being produced( dont like using the word quality there btw) I mean enough profit to keep WB interested, because that is all that matters when the income drops so much that WB dont see the worth in all the hassle , you can bet it will be dropped asap.

 

However that said I would dispute the figures are stable anyway http://wavehh.dyndns.org/lo/plot-all-mean-ytd2013.html I have no doubts in 2 or 3 months time the login figures will be lower than ever. As soon as people get through HD the first time and the holidays are over the people here to try out HD will go and when ESO comes out the mmo tourists will be elsewhere and the figures will plummet again.

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I don't know if that is good or bad, Fred.

 

Hearing that Turbine might just manage to limp into Mordor 2 or 3 years from now operating with 'reduced workforce' and 'reduced output' isn't terribly inspiring.  While I imagine that might let their talented artists put out an inspired view of Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Barad Dur and Mount Doom... the gameplay itself I had hoped for was more than a rollercoaster ride that provides a view while being restrained from leaving the vehicle.

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Numbers as of the other night on Snowbourn GlobalLFF was still higher than they were pre-HD release.

It's a month after an expansion (so-called).  They should be higher than they were the month before.  Even for a bad one.  Wouldn't you think?  Especially as they just started a 50% off sale.

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Probably worth pointing out that Turbine presumably spend between 4 - 8 months working on content before it's released. So if the logins are bad now, the effects of that won't be seen for a few months. We're still dealing with content developed whilst the logins were. So if 175~ logins per minute produces the shite that was HD, then what will the current ~140lpm produce?

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after seeing isengard and HD i hope we dont see mordor. I have a feeling it will be a small skirmish and you take on shelob or some stupid shit that is worse then HD.

 

I like how the poll shows after mirkwood the huge drop off in sales of the xpacs owned. I would llke to see another company get a crack middle earth. Turbine has turned lotro in the sims middle earth.

 

Lolz at the sapience poll i hope this poll gets traction and they listen to it that guy is the worst cm ive ever seen its like having wormtongue as a cm.

 

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To be fair, login numbers are not the indicator that either Turbine or WB have their eyes on - it's the overall gross revenue and the profit they can make from that, which in my opinion are both heading south. Though perhaps given Piaz's statement on more free "content" for VIPs, they're looking to drive up overall revenue per account by getting more subs. They've certainly been trimming their operating costs recently - all the new inexperienced & "cheap" staff evidenced by the quality of the HD content, the expac itself which compared to the others certainly had overall less spent on it tells me that Turbine are under pressure to meet their targets and are not delivering.

 

Would like to know the extent to which the Infinite Crisis fiasco is going to impact Turbines ability to deliver lotro content in the future.

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