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Leafblade

Everquest Next

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The Everquest Next forums for the roundtable topic discussions are a horrid mess.  Would be great to have a subforum here for the game as it does have some interesting discussion topics.

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Eh, I'm not that interested in it. But Everquest 2 is catching my attention somewhat. I'm tempted to try that one out.

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I've been playing EQ2 again the past few months.  I left it after a few years when LOTRO opened up, but returned after HD beta killed my captain and my desire to play LOTRO.  You do the Frostfell Festival events, get countless housing items, put them in one of your 25 houses you are allowed to buy and get a feel for how limited LOTRO is.

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Is the housing like LOTRO's or more reminiscent of SWG?

 

And damn, 25 houses? The role player in me just died a little.

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I just actually used some Station Cash for the first time to buy a snowy island with a house on it.  Having a great time decorating.  It is free placement (almost) with most houses allowing you to play somewhere between 6 and 800 items.  You can get small apartments or houses, huge estates, etc.  The limit was 20 different ones but I think they just upped it to 25.  So you can have a summer home, a winter home, and a home in various continental areas I believe.  Obviously I won't use that many, but it is a fantastic system.  You can stack quested books on/in your bookshelf.  The options are almost endless.

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Well between what you've said and what I've read about it's most recent expansion, I think I may just have to try it out.

 

Unfortunately on the note of Everquest Next, it's going to take a lot to sell me on a new MMO after all the disappointments that have been coming out lately.

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Housing is excellent, but EQ2 just feels really outdated. Talk about skill bloat. The graphics just scream old to me - along with the quests and alomst everything in the game. But if you like it then it might be for you - certainly a solid tradional MMO. The shiny's are awesome.

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Well I made a character and wasn't quite sure what to do. There seemed to be someone to talk to but all I could do was ask who she was and how I got there. Killed a few things, the combat felt laggy and unresponsive but I think that may be due to me downloading the game while playing it. I'll test that out later when I have the full game downloaded. Still not sure what to do though :P

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They removed a lot of the F2P restrictions so you can enjoy it rather freely.  But...it's an almost 10 year old game and if you are starting new, don't expect to hit level cap in a few days. Money will come slowly as it would in most games when you start new.  There are some 'alternate models' you can use to change the character looks.  Travel is much easier now with ports moving all over the world from a place near you.  The biggest disappointment I had after 6plus years away was the maps, both mini and world.  They're very rough and lacking the detail I'm accustomed to in newer games.  Aside from that though, it's a very player friendly game.  If you join Permafrost you can send an email to Androse and I can toss you a few platinum to help you get going.  Don't expect to get wowed by fantastic, modern combat graphics.  It IS an old game :)  For me, I like having all those skills at my disposal as a paladin.  It's like playing my pre-HD captain again.  It is a decent time to join and find your way to Frostfell for the winter festival.  The game is quite cheery with all the holiday decorations.

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http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/21/soe-live-2014-more-everquest-next-tidbits/

 

  • There will be guild homes and towns in EQN; these will be really special and hard to get.
  • The devs are committed to taking all the races through the foundation workshops.
  • SOEmote has improved significantly (and looks much more natural).
  • Players know that Qeynos will exist, but Freeport and it's current state are still a mystery.
  • Devs are experimenting with social hubs that players can check anytime from anywhere, even getting alerts for high-profile happenings.
  • Factions are spread out across the land, so there will be multiple opportunities to learn a class, not just "visit one guy on one mountaintop."
  • Being heroes of the world does not just mean slaughtering things; you can build temples to the gods, open trade routes, even help farmers with crops.
  • Even small changes to world are tangible: If you help merchants become wealthier, they walk around in better apparel and show off that wealth. The "quest completion log" is, in effect, an account of the changes you see.
  • NPC groups will ally with and help each other as well as fight against each other.
  • No decision yet if food and drink will be necessary.
  • The future may hold player-fiction contests for official lore, but there's nothing planned in the short term because of the excessive time involved to review them -- time needed on other aspects of game right now. SOE says, "We need to make sure that every detail of the story that we release fits into the continuity of the world; we're a stickler about that."

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EQ Next seems like the first game that might actually take the leap from the generation of games that the first EQ ushered in (or Wow, I guess, probably more accurately) into whatever the future holds for the genre. We shall see, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

Though if this sinks, and I'm guessing there's been a ton of money sunk into this thing, I'm not sure where the genre goes next.

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EQ Next seems like the first game that might actually take the leap from the generation of games that the first EQ ushered in (or Wow, I guess, probably more accurately) into whatever the future holds for the genre. We shall see, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

Though if this sinks, and I'm guessing there's been a ton of money sunk into this thing, I'm not sure where the genre goes next.

It's hard to know.  My money is on it doing well.  But the MMO market is changing so drastically.  I was one of those Everquest players who spent over a year getting to level cap.  My goal for the evening upon logging in was finding an 'exp group' to sit in a dungeon corner with and pull steady mobs to see that exp bar inch to the right ever so slowly.  Quest exp?  Almost nonexistent.  Go somewhere alone?  Outside of the newbie zones that got very difficult.  Rare spawns might show up once a week.  Other players could easily disrupt your gaming by 'training' mobs onto you or your raid.

 

Now?  Folks want non-linear quest options, to explore, to be able to solo everything, to have housing, dynamic world events (something we did actually have done by GMs back in EQ), better character models, and the list goes on.  

 

As Smedley of Sony said in his industry speech not long ago, players have gotten much more discerning.  

 

I think SWTOR, Elder Scrolls, and (from what I know of it) Wildstar are extraordinary creations with tons of varied content for people.  But I hear complaints that Wildstar is too raid-centric?  Elder Scrolls is struggling with people thinking veteran content is too hard and they're dumbing it down?  Star Wars has one of the greatest IPs and offers questing, dogfighting starship pvp, housing, small and large group content, pvp, and yet it has gone through some terrible struggles.  I don't really know how to anticipate what game will succeed or assess if a game is succeeding or not.  

 

I read one article recently that said the day of the grand MMO for everyone is perhaps gone and companies will have to focus MMO development on a niche-style focus. It was just an opinion, of course, but it makes one wonder. 

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Well of course players want more.   Most of players expect that their next game will be better than previous and not only better executed, but most importantly more complex, more interesting, more engaging.

 

That is one of reasons why many companies making MMOPRG tries to get less experienced players, new players or ex-social / mobile gamers  as those gamers have been playing simple games and so they might be satisfied with kind of games that won't satisfy seasoned MMORPG players that has played MMORPGs for years.

 

As for your opinion on ESO, Swtor or Wildstar.  Only half-decent game from this lot is imho ESO.   Swtor lost huge majority of it's playerbase and had to close huige amount of servers ( literally dozens of servers)  for a good reasons.   Many people have anticipated that such thing will happen and I am not surprised as well either.

 

As for Wildstar - my advice - grab a 7 day trial code Carbine every now and then throws on inet and test it - you'll clearly see why it lost majority of players. Again no surprise.

 

Last but not least. While it is true that MMORPGs  got many things since times of Ultima Online and EQ1, but don't remember they also lost many things some bad, but also some good ones, some things and concepts that were just thrown away.

 

@Coenl

 

Everquest Next costs are significantly smaller than other AAA MMORPGs.   Why?   Everquest Landmark & EQ Next share same engine, same character model, animations, network code and other graphical assets  and Sony is getting money from players since early alpha and before EQNext alpha.   +  players are creating graphical assets for Sony for nearly free. (+ are spending money in cash shop while doing so)

 

Everquest Landmark&Everquest Next is a crowdfinanced & crowdsourced game and that is done in a brilliant business way,  depending on how much players are spending on Alpha/Beta and cash shop items  - Sony may start earning money on Landmark&EQNext before those will even release.

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Drul, I would classify you as a 'discerning' gamer.  And I should make clear I have no issue with that.  I get the feeling you thought I was casting aspersions at such folk and that is not the case.

 

The point I was trying to make is that compared to the days of Everquest and Ultima Online back in 2000-2001, today's games such as SWTOR, Wildstar, ESO, and so on are fantastic games with features that are light years ahead of those from 10 years ago.  Yet, they have ridicule heaped upon them for failings and shortcomings.  It's not my 'opinion' of those games, I don't believe.  It's a perspective-specific comparison of games from years ago.  They are vastly superior in many respects by measurable, objective standards.  But it's not enough.  You can like or dislike him, but Smedley from SOE heaped praise upon SWTOR for what they accomplished.  I think that says something as well.  

 

I think the market is changing and games are having a difficult time establishing a target audience and/or meeting their demands.

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The two games I have been waiting for are ESO and EQnext.

 

Just written a post on why I'm taking a break from ESO, but I do think it's a superb game.

 

EQNext is the one that I've been most excited about, but over the yers I've learnt not to believe everything the devs etc tell us and wait and see what we actually end up with.

 

Where EQnext has an advantage in my opinion is that I can sub now for the same I'm paying ESO and play EQ, EQ2, DC Universe etc and EQnext when it arrives, all for the same single one monthly cost

 

And I still love pottering around in EQ2 and always sub when I play any game.

 

Got a one week closed beta for Landmark, certainly interesting the way almost anything can be obliterated, but while I'm having fun there, I'm not an artist or lover of minecraft type games (lack the artistic skills to build something that doesn't look like a 2 year old designed it) , hence refuse to pay $20 to beta test it. But would love a code if anyone has one going :)

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Yes I am discerning gamer and nah I did not took it that way. No worries.

 

You're right.  Modern MMORPGs are ahead of what was available in late 90s, althrough not in everything, at least when compared to UO. (I did not play EQ1 much do I can't comment on it).  Games like Swtor miss several big things that UO had.   On the other hand - yes, they have many objective measureable things better - like graphics, quests, voice overs, overall game polish, stability, better ergonomy and so on.

 

Anyway whenever we agree or not - one thing is certain.   Gamers demand rise faster than game industry is able to fullfill (it seems).   This comes as no surprise though - as several very important gameplay related things - barely made any progress since they were intorduced in MMORPGs in 15-10 years ago (depending on feature).

MMORPGs were able to improve budget related things like -  better graphics,  like more fixed themepark content at release, like better ergonomy, less bugs.

 

Game companies were completly unable to significantly improve other things though - things like AI, exploting, botting, cheating, RMT (that got even worse), quests (yes they got voice overs and cinamatic animations, but in essence quests themself are same or even in some cases more primitive) -  and all this is catching up to them.

 

Unable to improve those things companies were importing things into MMORPGs from single player games (voice overs, in-game cinematics, solo-phasing,  solo main-story line, etc) and non-MMO multiplayer games  (gameplay in instances,  arena PVP, matchmaking, etc)  and that worked for a long time and for certain part of players playing MMORPG it still does work.

 

For many others it does not work, because each year - the more apparent it becomes that in "core part" of MMORPGs there is very little and very slow progress and for single player and lobby multiplayer features there is huge (and growing) number of non-MMORPG games  - and players are simply migrating to those non-MMORPG titles.

 

 

edit: do you have a link to a video of this Smeadley speech you're talking about?

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Interesting series of short articles and perspective that starts here: http://www.eqn-rp.com/home/m/15888516/article/2542576  

EverQuest - The Game That Shaped a Genre

 

Takes a look at the gaming environment, old games vs new, etc.  Relevant to our conversation.

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I looked for this thread when I heard the news too, but Drul was more diligent than me. d;)b

I thought of Leafblade right away when I heard this, he was looking forward to this a lot back then.  

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It's been dead for along long time. Everyone knew it was cancelled because of a complete lack of any information (plus the company being sold/layoffs, etc.).

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How sad. This could have been a truly revolutionary MMORPG, maybe something that would relight the fires in the MMO genre, and bring players back that had otherwise left for MOBAs and such. But instead, Daybreak cancels it.

The MMO genre is effectively dead. They just haven't figured it out yet.

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If by 'they' you mean game companies, then I think they have figured this out several years ago already. 

- High profile MMORPG cancellations like Project Copernicus, World of Darkness and Blizzard's Titan,

- severe restructurisations and refocus from MMORPG areas to others like in case of Trion, SOE, Turbine and Funcom, 

- company sales like in case of SOE, 

- fall of P2P model,

- cost-cutting measures like cheaper PVE content generation systems like Skirmish-like content and scaled (often old reused) dungeons in place of costlier hand-made proper dungeons for specified group sizes and levels.

Industry known about MMORPG being in big trouble much earlier than general MMORPG playerbase have caugh up.

 

IMHO If we ever see AAA MMO(RPG)s genre serious ressurection attempt again they'll be preety diffrent and either made only by biggest gaming corporations like EA/Acti-Blizz/Warnes Bros/Tencent/Wargaming or even bigger ones = entertainemnt/media/IT ones outside standard gaming industry with serious bucks like Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc
 

PS. There is rumor going on for last year or so, that there is some 1 secret western AAA MMO(RPG) being made that will be an surprise announcement in some future, but well I'll believe when I see it.

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