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The Rift of Nurz Gashu will not be scaled, PERIOD


Altreg01
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The problem with hiding the store for VIPis they want VIP's to spend their TP in the store as well, instead of saving them and getting free xpacs like most of us did.  

 

I remember in WOW the monthly sub went a long way.  60 levels of free content.   Plus we had a working PVP and arena system which could be enjoyed at almost any level.   And we had tons of updates.  Each xpac came with progression multi boss and lair raids.  Plus you got new raids and instances every 3 to 4 months.  I'm sure the sub fee had something to do with that.  They were pumping out xpacs and the endgame content in some cases was endless.  I don't know too many players who stepped foot in Mount Hyjal or even Sunwell.  The one thing you could count on with Bliazzard is that everyone was going to get something with each update.  Solo quests, a raid, atleast 1 five man, possibly a new PVP battleground, a new area and possibly new mounts.  And get this the mounts were only purchased with in game currency.  And their loot system wasn't like pulling the handle on a slot machine.

 

As far as if Rift should be scaled.....for who?  Who is left in game to enjoy it?  All the diehards I used to run with are ghosts of the past.  During peak hours of our kin alliance I can bearly throw together a 6 man.  I never had the opportunity to run it at 50 because I was busy raiding in wow at the time, but if it's anything like the current scales it isn't worth it.  Turbine can't even find money to give players daily quests or crafting instances, how they gonna scrap together enough to pull off scaling a huge raid?

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the trick isn't reworking content so the content is scaled, it is simply adding a scaling mechanism that downscales mentors.

 

That works across all content. Of course it means you need a workable, meaningful stat system to scale, along with a workable meaningful loot system to go with it. Turbine has worked under the paradigm of once and done all its life and is stuck in the past (and a full decade in the past). They are essentially working on the model of base engine plus regular DLC. You could say they were ahead of the curve in 2008...

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Did they really just say that they won't scale The Rift because nobody really liked it back in the day?

 

I remember The Rift the first time around, and I also remember the general consensus - it was loved. I said myself at the time, and still will say to this day that it was the single most enjoyable and best-designed raid I've ever encountered in any MMO. Period. It was an excellent example of pitch-perfect design that played to every strength that every class could demonstrate and required everyone to be at the absolute top of their game. No doubt, and no question. It was magnificent. No challenge modes required. Brilliantly balanced, and brilliantly executed.

 

That all changed with Moria of course. But that was nothing to do with the Rift itself and everything to do with the fact that when designing LOTRO's systems they plateaued everything in the SoA days, leaving no room for future expansion. That in turn required that as of MoM they had to start mucking around with fundamental systems like traits, stats and BPE calculations etc. Why they didn't originally design their systems with inevitable later expansion in mind I don't know, but that's besides the point.

 

If they want to use a raid's popularity as an excuse to not scale it, then why did they scale Helegrod? Nobody liked it or ran it back in the day. But then they scaled Helegrod back when they were still assigned a development budget worth a damn. Methinks they can't be honest and say "we'll never scale The Rift becuase we can't afford it any more" so they're having to make up nonsense.

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I think you probably nailed it pretty close to the mark, Hajile, insofar as that they probably can't afford to do it the proper justice. I'd guess if they did it now it would be broken into 3 deed-locked wings and, since scaling has generally been not as satisfying as the original in most/all the instances they've done it for, would end up being a disappointment, imo.

 

If it can't be done right, please leave it be.

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I could be wrong but I seem to remember a post, dev chat or twitter q&a (although I can't find it now) where a dev said there was some issue with putting raid locks in scaled content (maybe somthing to do with if you ding whilst you have the lock). Hence why Hele was split into wings. I would hate to see The Rift split into wings like Helegrod.

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I could be wrong but I seem to remember a post, dev chat or twitter q&a (although I can't find it now) where a dev said there was some issue with putting raid locks in scaled content (maybe somthing to do with if you ding whilst you have the lock). Hence why Hele was split into wings. I would hate to see The Rift split into wings like Helegrod.

If their issue is with people levelling during the raid, they can just simply apply locks to the character for the level at which it's being run. Run a 65, get locks for 65. Run a 95, get locks for 95. Levelling wouldn't effect it.

It's probably more that they can't be bothered to put the effort in to making these workarounds.

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Did they really just say that they won't scale The Rift because nobody really liked it back in the day?

 

 

Pretty sure that they said the opposite - too many people like it and have fond memories of it, so scaling it will likely disappoint more people than it will please.

 

If their issue is with people levelling during the raid, they can just simply apply locks to the character for the level at which it's being run. Run a 65, get locks for 65. Run a 95, get locks for 95. Levelling wouldn't effect it.

It's probably more that they can't be bothered to put the effort in to making these workarounds.

 

I don't think jwbarry ever mentioned leveling being an issue - just that they don't know how to put locks on scaled instances.

 

Frankly, I think they sort of do - after all, you're locked out from the fancy teal drops from a raid skirm after running it the first time each week - but just don't have the time and/or management approval to work on it.

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This is just mind-blowing.

So first of all, what kind of computer gets outright killed by the power outage? Yes 19" machines are prone to hang on to life with a broken PSU and do not come back up after a powercycle. There should be spare PSUs on the shelf.

Oh wait. It isn't broken. It is "messed up".

Now, what does that mean? I can tell you what that means: they made fixes to the lotteries and kept them running by logging into the live server and making changes to the running service without any provisioning to preserve those changes over a reboot. Now the only person who knew anything about the magic required was pink-slipped or moved on to a different project and the stunt cannot be repeated.

 

In the words of the immortal Cheech Marin

 

messedup.png

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Pretty sure that they said the opposite - too many people like it and have fond memories of it, so scaling it will likely disappoint more people than it will please.

 

Looking back at these last few months I'm really surprised they said that.

 

I would have expected them to be experts on delivering sloppy content nobody likes by now.

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The real reason why they won't be touching Rift (plus the other Angmar and Moria instances & Raids) is that they've lost the capability to undertake these conversions and deliver the new scalable variants that will do the content justice and as such have decided not to open that can of worms. 

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I can't believe the audacity of Sapience to tell people that they actually didn't enjoy the Rift raid as much as they think they remember. I find such comments rude and insulting

 

I appreciate rose tinted specs and all but is this a new tactic by Turbine to deny good things that they may have done in the past in order to promote the current state of the game as being 'better than ever'?

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I can't believe the audacity of Sapience to tell people that they actually didn't enjoy the Rift raid as much as they think they remember. I find such comments rude and insulting

I appreciate rose tinted specs and all but is this a new tactic by Turbine to deny good things that they may have done in the past in order to promote the current state of the game as being 'better than ever'?

I don't know if that's the new tactic or not but Sapience is beyond insulting making such a ridiculous statement.

I remember multiple kins on Arkenstone lined up at the Rift doorway at Raid Time pumped up to go get another piece of gear, make progress on their raid completion and compete for bragging rights. It was pure awesome, the Wig-Felds were all out in their coveted glory.

Perhaps if Sapience had ever played the game (or run that instance) he would have remembered it differently...

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I don't know what this is that Sapience is saying about the Rift not being as good as people remembered, but I'm sorry that's pure crap. I can remember SoA during the time of the Rift, and that was by far the busiest and generally most enjoyable end game Raid in LOTRO's history. So many Kins and alliances across the Servers were running the Rift on a regular basis, and the general consensus seemed to be that it was the best end game content LOTRO has ever had. 

 

End game like Rift is why LOTRO once had a great Raiding community. Nothing that Turbine has released since then has held a torch to the Rift, and that's why the Raiders have been leaving over the years.

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It really would not surprise me if amongst the management team in Turbine it is now the perceived wisdom that all content delivered prior to F2P and Update 1 is considered "sub par" and as such something to be dismissed. The likes of Piaz, Heaton etc will all be espousing the view that WB's takeover of Turbine has only ever been a good thing and as such all the decisions taken since then will be right ones. Those who prefer the older content & approach - SoA, MoM and SoM will be classed as "out of touch", "living in the past" and "seeing the old game through rose tinted specs". Any of those phrases seem familiar from the official forums?

 

Hence why Heaton can probably say with some conviction that Rift was not as good. Just another management lackey who believes nothing other than the company propaganda.

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Simple fact: Turbine no longer has the resources to revamp a code base as different from everything else as the Rift. Nobody on staff has the skill save RockX, but it doesn't matter, since they are too scared to actually TRY.

 

They don't want raiders anyway. Hasn't that been made clear?

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Simple fact: Turbine no longer has the resources to revamp a code base as different from everything else as the Rift. Nobody on staff has the skill save RockX, but it doesn't matter, since they are too scared to actually TRY.

 

They don't want raiders anyway. Hasn't that been made clear?

It's a fact that raiders or anyone who doesn't want to pick flowers, spam emotes, dance in the streets, attend festivals, spend money on anything Turbine forces them to, and have the ability to one shot every mob in the game, only make up a very tiny single digit percentage of the game.

It is known.

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It's a fact that raiders or anyone who doesn't want to pick flowers, spam emotes, dance in the streets, attend festivals, spend money on anything Turbine forces them to, and have the ability to one shot every mob in the game, only make up a very tiny single digit percentage of the game.

It is known.

Yeah I've seen that before in the Sapience bible that a few of the Lotro Elite "respected" members of the o board tend to fling around when ever the talk shifts to more than 2 people joining forces.  Also used when ever the word challenge is mentioned.  Same goes for when PVP is even briefly discussed.  Never use the word raid or raider over there.  You will instantly be labeled as an elitest blowhard and told to leave the game.  Your kind is not wanted around here.  It's the next gen MMO where everyone ignores each other!

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This is why I have given up posting over there, as it's pointless. I have also given up (mostly!) on complaining about it, even over here (although the odd rant will catch me out). The reason is clear - we are done as far as LOTRO is concerned. I'm moving on in my own way, playing other games and logging in just to make sure I get my TP and the odd gold present for free.

 

They aren't going to change, and have no incentive what so ever to make me happy. I had a brief twitter chat with Sap yesterday and he has not told me anything that gives me any hope. Just the usual "balancing issues and minor tweaks" which makes me realize they don't want and aren't going to change, and are happy with the direction.

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