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29 hobbits..... Sapience on livestream


Tarantula
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Serenity Now pulled off the most epic of epics with that one. And all absolutely completely within the spirit and intent of the game. If all those who were butt-hurt ended up leaving the game then the outcome was double good.

The  people who planned it made several mistakes in the planning of the event if they wanted it to go as planned.

Announcing it on several forums and at the end of the post specifically asking those from the opposite faction to not disturb it.  The invitation should have been kept vague for those that knew the departed.  I mean they should not have even mentioned it was a horde player.

 

Holding it in a public area on a PVP realm.  There's a reason why you play on a PVP realm, for PVP.

 

Not having anyone standing guard to make sure this didn't happen. 

 

With the Sapience thing the ban hammer will be right there with him.

 

Which is why I'm not sure why Brrokk has labeled us as bad people.  None of us were planning any of the things we were discussing.  The thread was merely for entertainment purposes.  Many Including myself have stated after our original posts that we would never do something like this.  As it effects players rather than our real target which is turbine.  

 

Yes some of the o board lurkers may use this against us but seriously that would be like only reading half of what is written and they already do that anyway so what the sense in typing anything.

 

This community while at times snarky about the game and the way their concerns are treated on the o boards is still a community.  Only over here we are aloud to tell each other how we really feel about the game as well as having some fun at the same time.

 

Brrokk and any O board lurkers just FYI:

sarcasmzl71.jpg

 

It's high in this thread.

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especially after I twice noted that what I had in mind was not greifing in the least. Showing up and blotting the screen with 20 M-cappies is WAI, isn't it? Fireworks and emotes too, express yourself through your online persona, right? Duels? Are those now an exploit of some kind?

 

Honestly I have spent a couple of days now and far too many hours behaving like a mouse in a maze looking for the cocaine dispenser. I was determined to take my guard to Moria. I ended up doing the festival a couple times, for XP and the free TPs, and almost any other side quests I could pull off, and having done a few quests inside Moria proper have just leveled up to 46.

 

One thing I did was go into sarnur. I forgot just how much fun that area could be when level appropriate. Solo or grouped. And as ever, it was completely empty. I bet most new players these days don't even know it is there.

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This forum no longer lives up to its name "LOTRO Community". When I see numbers of people saying griefing in-game is any kind of good idea... well, I find I'm posting here less and less. I remember a few friends here who no longer post and I wonder if that's how it was for them; the last post in "The Bird & Baby Inn" was by me last August.

I'm not for the griefing either, Brrok.  I'm afraid I consider much of what I see here and elsewhere as a reflection of where the game is at.

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It all depends. As you all know, I'm not above doing something stupid to bring attention to a problem (see my gift package for Rick Heaton late last year, to help with his butthurt), but I really don't agree with in-game disturbances. Hell, once I was so pissed at Blizzard I planned on flying down to Blizzcon and protesting outside of the convention hall, because of a major nerf to Shaman's Windfury ability! I didn't end up doing that, but only because I couldn't raise the necessary funds in time. The reason I don't care for these in-game protests is that more often than not they cause more problems for other players on the affected servers than they bring attention to an issue, and almost always end up getting well-meaning people suspended or banned. They simply aren't worth it.

 

So to sum up:

 

In-game protests? Bad.

Windfury nerfs? Really bad.

Out-of-game protests? Good.

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Interesting question.

At what point and in what shape is it a protest and when is it griefing?

 

Well clearly to some people here, just mentioning it or making a joke about it (not actually doing it) and then saying very clearly you have no intention of doing it, means you are griefing and trying to ruin players fun.

 

It is pretty ridiculous, IMO that joking about this means you are doing something wrong, griefing and trying to ruin others fun - even when you say you are not actually going to do something.

 

I guess some people are sensitive and get offended at just the idea of doing anything vaguely disruptive in a game. Brokk, spiteful and Leafblade - do you honestly think we are doing anything wrong posting in this thread - when we have explicitly said we were not going to do anything in game. I am asking because you have painted all of us together and badly even when we have said we were not actually going to do anything. Mentions of people trying to ruin others fun and a sign of how bad the community is, etc. seem a bit extreme to me. I feel like there is some wierd thoughts going on behind the scenes when people make comments like that - like one person is just waiting to bash people here, and maybe another has been greifed in the past in a game and so reacts strongly at any mention of it.

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The very nature of demonstrations is that they are kind of disruptive, intentionally or not. You will notice that the tolerance for unavoidable disruption in the name of effective demonstrations is very different between the US and continental Europe.

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Well clearly to some people here, just mentioning it or making a joke about it (not actually doing it) and then saying very clearly you have no intention of doing it, means you are griefing and trying to ruin players fun.

 

It is pretty ridiculous, IMO that joking about this means you are doing something wrong, griefing and trying to ruin others fun - even when you say you are not actually going to do something.

 

I guess some people are sensitive and get offended at just the idea of doing anything vaguely disruptive in a game. Brokk, spiteful and Leafblade - do you honestly think we are doing anything wrong posting in this thread - when we have explicitly said we were not going to do anything in game. I am asking because you have painted all of us together and badly even when we have said we were not actually going to do anything. Mentions of people trying to ruin others fun and a sign of how bad the community is, etc. seem a bit extreme to me. I feel like there is some wierd thoughts going on behind the scenes when people make comments like that - like one person is just waiting to bash people here, and maybe another has been greifed in the past in a game and so reacts strongly at any mention of it.

 

 

At least for me, I'll let others address as they see fit or not:

 

 

 

Apparently talking about things that would ruin the fun of the players who do it or doing shit that would ruin play for those not even involved is the cool thing to do.

 

 

Unless you are just being sarcastic, please point out where I said talking about messing around was tantamount to griefing.

 

Now show me in that sentence where I said talking/joking about it was wrong.

 

Beyond that you have no clue how it made me feel, but I can guarantee you it wasn't offended and I may be a lot of things but sensitive isn't one of them, good job painting me with the same brush, though.

 

Show me again where I said any one was going to actually grief, or any mention about how it made the community look.

 

Yea, that's right I didn't say any of that. you're just broad stroking with your paintbrush. Oh wait that's right I didn't say I hate Turbine and Sapience, that was my real offence for you I think.

 

It seems quite clear to me that anything not explicitly Anti turbine or Sapience or any criticism that is not all encompassing and to a great enough degree simply isn't good enough for you, or at least when dealing with myself and some others here.

 

So, tell me if this was a reversed situation and this community was planning an event and over on the OF's posts like here were made, you'd be defending them as not hating and just joking around?

 

Doing anything wrong? No. And just to be clear, it didn't take a "I'm not actually going to do it" comment to come to that answer.

 

I'm sure this is considered bashing you too.  :Y

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The very nature of demonstrations is that they are kind of disruptive, intentionally or not. You will notice that the tolerance for unavoidable disruption in the name of effective demonstrations is very different between the US and continental Europe.

 

There's probably a degree of truth to that, for sure.

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Spiteful, maybe I misunderstood your comment that you reposted, but it clearly talks about ruining fun or play of players "doing shit that would ruin play", but I can believe you in what you wrote explaining what you meant. Anyway, my comment was not directed only at you but the several who commented on how bad it was we joked about this event.

 

Yea, that's right I didn't say any of that. you're just broad stroking with your paintbrush. Oh wait that's right I didn't say I hate Turbine and Sapience, that was my real offence for you I think.

 

It seems quite clear to me that anything not explicitly Anti turbine or Sapience or any criticism that is not all encompassing and to a great enough degree simply isn't good enough for you, or at least when dealing with myself and some others here.

 

With the red text above, you are mistaken. As I said, I just don't think joking about trolling an event (and saying clearly you would not actually do anything but just joking) is doing anything wrong. You are kind of making up the part about Sapience here, or whether you say anything good or bad about him or Turbine, matters to me. Long before you posted here we always had people who did not say anything negative and they were respected and accepted for their views. Just because some of us are willing to criticize him or Turbine does not mean we want anyone else to do that also. In the interest of clear communication and understanding, the red part is not true at all. I just was a little surprised how several people posted we should not even joke about doing something in a game that was all.

 

And maybe I misunderstood your post. Again, there were I think at least 4 comments on how bad it was to joke about this event in the thread. But I think you seriously misread me if you think I care what you or anyone says about Turbine. If someone says something I think is factually untrue anout anything, I may want to post my own view about it. That is about it. I have posted hundreds of threads pointing out the good points of Lotro and Turbine staff, and even posted sometimes defending Sapience or pointing out positives I have seen in Sapience's actions. If you don't like criticism of Turbine or the game or Sapience and other staff (Paiz's), it doesn't really have anything to do with me. This is not my forum and obviously I am not the only one posting in this thread, or on the forum posting views on Turbine or Sapience.

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...... I really don't agree with in-game disturbances. ...

The reason I don't care for these in-game protests is that more often than not they cause more problems for other players on the affected servers than they bring attention to an issue, ...

 

So to sum up: ...

In-game protests? Bad.

...

 

Doesn't it depend of if players in the game are actually effected? For example, if during a hobbit walk, you posted "Fred for Mayor" in the chat, or if you had your toon lying in the road, would that form of protest be actually bad?

 

I can't see how that would hurt anyone in game.

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Doesn't it depend of if players in the game are actually effected? For example, if during a hobbit walk, you posted "Fred for Mayor" in the chat, or if you had your toon lying in the road, would that form of protest be actually bad?

 

I can't see how that would hurt anyone in game.

 

Other than the "forced emotes are equivalent to rape" crowd, I fail to see how much of anything can hurt anyone in-game.

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Protests that don't effect anyone aren't worth the time.

 

Annoying Sapience is always worth the time. This is not a protest to change a government.

 

I think it would be hilarious to have someone making funny comments in chat during his live stream. Something that would only bug him because he could not control it. Do you only want players slobbering all over him and offering him cookies?

 

Poking fun at authoritarian people is an end in itself.

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I just tuned in to the end (?) of the livestream - I was bored, sorry.  The raid his little hobbit is in looks like a proverbial "you're never killing us" freep raid: at least 8 healers out of 24.

 

E Creeps will probably be very familiar with this look.

 

Anyway, apparently part of the event is that it's not done until his raid kills the two Isengard trolls at the gate and his little hobbit gets the title.  As I type, I'm watching dozens of people stand around wondering who killed the trolls before he got there.  A few people are referencing some sort of contest as well, I think.  I don't know.

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There's a phrase in the US, "Yea, all the cool kids are doing it" it's a sarcastic phrase.

 

I've never even hinted that I don't like criticism of Turbine or Sapience, so I'm not sure where that comes from, in fact I've criticized both, here and on the OF's.

 

Somethings I find worse than others and somethings that get people worked up I find not as bad as they do.

 

Did I overstate, probably, but I also qualified it as, "when dealing with me and some others." not everyone nor all your posts. 

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Taking the Hobbits to Isengard took place on Gilrain tonight. So I tagged along as i thought there may be a blog post in it.

 

It went pretty well although there was chronic lag and rubber banding.

 

As the main zerg escorting Sapience approached Grimbold's camp, some "individuals" went ahead of the main group and killed the trolls, outside Isengard.

 

This impacted on the criteria set out for the event to be completed and resulted in the zerg (which was very large) waiting for the trolls to respawn.

 

Eventually it was decided not to worry about waiting for the respawn and it looks like this requirement will be removed from future runs, as it is too much of an invitation for griefers.

 

Now when it was established that the trolls had been killed in advance, as you can imagine there was mixed reaction in OOC. Let is suffice to say that it didn't take long for the finger of blame to be pointed at these forums.

 

Irrespective of this particular incident, what it has proven is that if Turbine regularly host event on servers they will certainly get  large turn out of players. Shame this sort of thing wasn't done more often in the recent years.

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Doesn't it depend of if players in the game are actually effected? For example, if during a hobbit walk, you posted "Fred for Mayor" in the chat, or if you had your toon lying in the road, would that form of protest be actually bad?

 

I can't see how that would hurt anyone in game.

 

Even better have all the people lying in the road named Fred or some variation. 

 

 

Other than the "forced emotes are equivalent to rape" crowd, I fail to see how much of anything can hurt anyone in-game.

 

OMG I just remembered that old, PETA I think, film that equated the Chicken Nuggets commercial to gang rape. Some peoples kids

 

Annoying Sapience is always worth the time. This is not a protest to change a government.

 

I think it would be hilarious to have someone making funny comments in chat during his live stream. Something that would only bug him because he could not control it. Do you only want players slobbering all over him and offering him cookies?

 

Poking fun at authoritarian people is an end in itself.

 

For some yea, for me it's worth about as much time as joining his little party, none at all.

 

That would be funny.  Slobber is nasty and I keep all cookies for myself!

 

Indeed it is.

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Taking the Hobbits to Isengard took place on Gilrain tonight. So I tagged along as i thought there may be a blog post in it.

 

It went pretty well although there was chronic lag and rubber banding.

 

As the main zerg escorting Sapience approached Grimbold's camp, some "individuals" went ahead of the main group and killed the trolls, outside Isengard.

 

This impacted on the criteria set out for the event to be completed and resulted in the zerg (which was very large) waiting for the trolls to respawn.

 

Eventually it was decided not to worry about waiting for the respawn and it looks like this requirement will be removed from future runs, as it is too much of an invitation for griefers.

 

Now when it was established that the trolls had been killed in advance, as you can imagine there was mixed reaction in OOC. Let is suffice to say that it didn't take long for the finger of blame to be pointed at these forums.

 

Irrespective of this particular incident, what it has proven is that if Turbine regularly host event on servers they will certainly get  large turn out of players. Shame this sort of thing wasn't done more often in the recent years.

 

Clearly you soloed the trolls, you griefer, since you were probably the only one from these forums logged into Gilrain for the event.

 

-----------

 

Congrats to Turbine on the apparently really long respawn timer for the trolls, though.  SWTOR has a few mobs like that now that are needed for achievements, and the only way to be sure you can get them is to basically be the first person there after a server reset.

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Having watched the entire stream, it seems unlikely to me that this will attract many new players to the game. Even when it was just a couple dozen players at the beginning walking along safe roads, the movement lag, rubberbanding, and low framerate were frankly embarrassing. There was also a client crash about midway.

 

However, there were more than 400 people watching the stream at the high point, so I'd consider that a moderate success in terms of engagement. It's still not something I want to watch 28 more times, though. Even if some developers sit in to answer questions, I'd prefer to just read a recap on a fan site.

 

The players of Gilrain seemed to appreciate the attention. There were more than 100 in the main layer by the end. (I took a screenshot and stopped counting at 100.) That's probably the biggest benefit of all. An acknowledgment (however trivial) that Turbine knows they exist.

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