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Hunter stealth tracking "bug" wont be fixed until Update 13

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3. The stealth tracking was never intended to disappear and was more of an oversight on our implementation. I will take a look at re-integrating the functionality back, but I doubt you will not see it until update 13.

-Jinjaah

 

Source: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?537832-A-nice-polite-forum&p=7065085#post7065085

 

Sad. I really can't wait four months (since the release of HD) for a simple fix. I will miss LOTRO.

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Four months, IF it gets fixed.

 

By the way, Jinjaah should have written '... but I doubt you will see it until update 13.'

 

And: and this is the worst part of it: it was an OVERSIGHT! It was not even something inadvertently changing. They just didn't give it enough attention. In another thread someone wrote: it is clear that HD was released without the devs even playing through it once!

 

 

What boggles me is that they released HD as is, even with the bugs and obvious problems, see the OP, which were pointed out in Beta.

 

But, there are always people who think that's ok:

From https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?538100-I-am-really-getting-upset-with-LotRO

post 17:

"Update 12.1 had over 600 bug fixes. I'm sure the next update will contain more bug fixes. Updates always do. I'm going to forgive Turbine if the next update is a little slow, given that we just came through the holiday season. I'm sure they wanted to take some vacation time to spend with their families. We'll just have to be patient."

 

*puke* Poor devs, needing a break.... really.

"It's true that Turbine doesn't keep an updated list of known issues in the forums. Honestly, though, I've never seen a game that did. Hopefully they're too busy working on the bugs to publish a list of them here."

 

*Wishful thinking*

 

I also wish that Turbine would repeat all announcements and messages in 3 places -- the forums, Facebook and Twitter. Sometimes it seems like a message goes out to only one of those. I don't get Twitters on my phone and I don't check Facebook every day, so I've missed things in the past. I doubt I'm the only one."

 

*Complaining* and then bashing the players (really: adopting Sapience condescending tone):

"Oftentimes, people complain that Turbine hasn't answered a question when they have, several times. I can't count the number of posts in the forums like this. When I read "Why doesn't Turbine tell us?!" what I really see is "I can't be bothered to use the Search box!" It's true that they don't answer every question and they don't always answer fast, but my general advice to everyone is to search for the answer or ask others to repeat it for you, before assuming that no answer was ever given."

 

*Completely forgetting how bad Turbine is with communication and how sneakily they word their answers?*

"During the recent live broadcast Q&A with Sapience, people actually ran out of questions before it was over. Whatever it is you can think of asking, Sapience probably answered it then. I think you'd really enjoy participating in the next session. Ask all of the questions you've been wondering about."

 

*puke some more* The real questions will not be asked. Those who have those questions have left, And if you will ask 'all of the questions you've been wondering about', I am sure you will be banned from the game right after that.

 

 

Fortunately, there was a good response to the above quoted post, from Poster X:

 

"1 question, why did an expansion require 600 bug fixes just a few weeks after release? you talk like thats something to be proud of, it isnt. And no Updates do not always have 600 fixes to them, that is false, in fact most other games do content releases much more often than turbine do and dont have 1/10th of the issues HD had.

Does that not alarm you in any way? do you not think its a bit poor to release content FOR SALE with that many problems with it and even after doing those 600 fixes still need another update to fix more?

People arguing over whether its 2 months, 7 weeks or whatever its took to fix these issues are forgetting, it was in beta for 8 weeks, alpha before that, lots of the issues that came out with release and are still there (macroing exploit on the moors, quickslots resetting to name but 2) were reported by lots of people as early as betas first week and not only have they made it past 6 beta builds , they made it live, then still did not get fixed in 12.1, so have a little understanding for people who are getting fed up with this kind of service, its not the first time its happened either think Draigoch."

 

Sapience also chimed in on that thread:

 

"In a nutshell, yes. All bugs carry a certain amount of work and a certain level of halo effect. Does fixes X change Y? Sometimes you don't know until you actually crack open X and discover it's connected to A-F and W-Z. The more complex the problem, the more time it takes to pull the spaghetti apart and make sure you aren't accidentally breaking several other things. Sometimes you do, so you go back and revert your fix because you actually created 5 more bugs. So you let the issue stand until you can get the full fix in, tested, and working correctly.

There is also the issue of priority. A bug that's a little annoying is going to get a lower priority than a bug that actually causes the game to come crashing down. Likewise a bug that blocks the only possible path of progressionin the game will get more attention than the bug in one side quest that doesn't block progression through the main part of the game.

As with most things, the thing you find mos annoying/important/urgent is subjective and might not actually be the most pressing issue to resolve.

A good example would be if there is a color that isn't dying right when you try to dye over it and another bug that is blocking all players from turning in the final item in a quest chain that unlocks the next set of quests, you can bet the dye color is the bottom of the pile. Even if it's wrecking your holiday dress."

 

To which Poster X replied:

"What priority do the ones like those that are in Draigoch get? you know the ones that stop you being able to play content that was bought for as part of an expansion, or ones that completely ruin the game play experience of a whole group of people such as the well known and highly publicised exploits currently in the moors?"

 

 

 

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To which Poster X replied:

"What priority do the ones like those that are in Draigoch get? you know the ones that stop you being able to play content that was bought for as part of an expansion, or ones that completely ruin the game play experience of a whole group of people such as the well known and highly publicised exploits currently in the moors?"

Did Poster X get a response?

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Did Poster X get a response?

Not from S. but from another player:

 

'Interesting line of inquiry. Those two groups of players apparently make up less than 20% of the total population and so their desires fall by the wayside to feed the 80%. apparently it's good business practice to shed up to 20% of your customer base through neglect.

Spock once said the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. damm that Vulcan.'

 

Sapience's post got this response:

 

'You DO realize that what the OP asks for is not necessarily that bugs be resolved right away? That he is mainly speaking about ACKNOWLEDING them, at the very least (bonus points of course for actually fixing a thing or two before breaking ten others)?

The guard response issue would qualify as a fine example of what the OP would be talking about.

It would, surely, not be too hard for your precious QA Team to get a guard character, equip sword and shield, run into a couple enemies and hit pledge?

Then send a minion or other here to at least acknowledge that yes, indeed, it IS an issue, an easily reckognizable one, to boot, and yes, it IS going to be adressed?

Or are we to gather from the continued utter silence on the matter that this is somehow considered a minor annoyance? Then I would urge you guys to reconsider what qualifies as criteria over there.'

 

 

*Note that the poster who said that every question gets answered is already proven wrong by the question about Draigoch's fix having been around for as long as Draigoch is in game. Shame.

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I'm genuinely curious to get folk's opinions on this - given the sad state of HD on release and the number of bugs fixes in the first patch, and so many still left to be taken care of, plus the fact that devs are working on multiple classes, which do you think is how it was  - 

 

- HD developers were stretched to the max, over their heads and working insane amounts of overtime to get something out the door for launch date, all under extreme pressure

 

- HD development knew they were in way over their heads, so did their management, and so whatever they got around to doing was seen as ok by everyone,  they put in regular hours,  and whatever they put out the door was seen as a success.

 

I know that the tutorial was originally not planned for launch, was written over one weekend, and had no changes put in based on beta feedback.  

 

I really can't decide if HD was a development grind that wore down the whole team (hence maybe a long holiday break really was something they needed) or if HD was a "just slap something together and call it good" type of thing.

 

What do you think?

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There is nothing that slows down a software development team better than canning your contractors and pushing the work on the few left, with the unspoken thanks that you haven't been laid off yet.

 

People want to keep their jobs obviously, but they will hedge and do their best not to be creative, not to take risks and not to add any enhancements beyond a spec sheet. Test plans will also reflect a very CYA attitude, where anything that is spelled out is of course verified, anything else is pushed back to a QA team as regression testing.

 

And without a decent QA structure, the QA testers are only verifying the new development from the technical standpoint of the programmers, there really is no regression testing and new functionality is only vaguely defined. It becomes a finger pointing game after the fact.

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I don't think any of that mattered since almost all of the current developers don't have enough exposure to LOTRO playing to make changes that actually enhance the game.

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...

 

What do you think?

 

Personally I don't think either scenario is correct in and of itself.

 

My speculation is this is all part of Turbine's long range plan for LotRO. Let me start by saying if I was in charge of the development I would not have done such an overhaul of a basic game system like the Trait Trees. I don't mind the Trees, and while they aren't up to snuff yet I think they will continue to improve on them. However I would have never authorized such a change in a game this old knowing it would alienate a many customers.

 

First off, I personally haven't been in an mmo that didn't release with multiple bugs, even more so when large new systems are added or changed. As far as I can tell it's par for the course. Having said that, Turbine seems to have a larger issue with this than any other developer I've dealt with, as well as being very slow to address and fix bugs.

 

I think part of the plan is to get the game to a Maintenance Mode state. I don't think they're there but I think the timeline is looming. My guess is they have secured the extension of the licence but it will be the last extension suited for developing new content, just long enough to get to Mordor. I'd guess that the new extension will carry them thru 2017. This would fit with their slowdown on Xpacs since they could do 2 more, Gondor and Mordor at aprox.. year and a half cycles with the time between polishing bugs and getting things stable as well as putting in some filler content and zone revamps. I'd go further to guess that the Lotro-Store will be removed entirely, replaced by Mithiril Coin Vendors, and MC's available through the Lotro-Market. There will likely be a way to trade TP for MC's as well as earn some small amount of MC's in game. TP earning in game will be reduced, I'd guess 5 TP per Advanced Slayer Deeds and 5 TP per single Tier Deeds.

 

I don't think we'll see any further major systems added but rather a streamlining, optimization and integration  of current systems. I wouldn't be shocked to see a code overhaul to facilitate this. Over the next few years we'll see the game get more symmetrical with gear etc.

 

Post Mordor they will either seek or already have secured rights to continue LotRO in Maintenance Mode. No development beyond what is done, with the possibility of adding missing content/areas. The game will be by then completely F2P with no subs, though I suspect they'll allow lifetimers to continue probably minus the monthly TP allowance.

 

How does the state of HD fit into this, as well as pretty much every Xpac since WB took over? Again my guess is that Turbine is on a minimal full time crew of senior leads. When they get ready to push an Xpac they do a temp hiring push to get everything coded and at least minimal functionality. Slowly stripping the team back as they can, relying on the full time team to fix things as time goes on. It very much looks to me like someone who has read the LUA documentation and puts together a plug-in for the first time. They may be fully competent in other codes and the plug in can operate but it could really use some optimization. Only instead of someone it's a bunch of Temps who have some documentation and a lead trying to get them all to function within the main game. "Yea, that'll work, I can get that later and fix it, next project."  

 

I think LotRO Development has been and continues to be a stepping stone into WB Games.

 

I honestly expect a short term upswing in LotRO quality as they optimize and tie everything together. However I also see more generic gear choices etc. following suit as they set the game up to be pretty much updated via a spreadsheet style maint. system except for something like yearly or every other year updates. LotRO can probably make money for many years this way. It's Tolkien, it's the only one around, requires little maint. or dev time. If they get it run smoothly while not  tons of profit it will turn a profit for as long as they can maintain it.

 

I think the full time devs are stretched thin and that good enough is the phrase of the day, but I also think it's part of a long term plan.

 

.  

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In reality they shouldn't need to. A real developer creates functional requirement specs and test plans. They are as much business analyst as they are technical analyst. If your code monkeys are your developers, then who is managing the zoo?

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I think part of the plan is to get the game to a Maintenance Mode state. I don't think they're there but I think the timeline is looming. My guess is they have secured the extension of the licence but it will be the last extension suited for developing new content, just long enough to get to Mordor. I'd guess that the new extension will carry them thru 2017. This would fit with their slowdown on Xpacs since they could do 2 more, Gondor and Mordor at aprox.. year and a half cycles with the time between polishing bugs and getting things stable as well as putting in some filler content and zone revamps. I'd go further to guess that the Lotro-Store will be removed entirely, replaced by Mithiril Coin Vendors, and MC's available through the Lotro-Market. There will likely be a way to trade TP for MC's as well as earn some small amount of MC's in game. TP earning in game will be reduced, I'd guess 5 TP per Advanced Slayer Deeds and 5 TP per single Tier Deeds.

 

I don't think we'll see any further major systems added but rather a streamlining, optimization and integration  of current systems. I wouldn't be shocked to see a code overhaul to facilitate this. Over the next few years we'll see the game get more symmetrical with gear etc.

 

Post Mordor they will either seek or already have secured rights to continue LotRO in Maintenance Mode. No development beyond what is done, with the possibility of adding missing content/areas. The game will be by then completely F2P with no subs, though I suspect they'll allow lifetimers to continue probably minus the monthly TP allowance.

 

This is what it feels like to me too, though I couldn't put my thoughts together as well as you do.

 

It feels like a long march "into the West", though trying to hide the true destination as long as possible.

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hey spiteful, I'll see your prediction and raise you a mithril coin, disagree and say the all new "free for VIP only" will be a new class.

 

Double or nothing that they will have trouble rolling it out to lifetimers and end up sending them a coupon to just buy it in the store.

 

Triple down they later just open it up to be bought, because, well, complainers gonna complain, and store purchases now mean the lights stay on...and they can email out these coupons you know...

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hey spiteful, I'll see your prediction and raise you a mithril coin, disagree and say the all new "free for VIP only" will be a new class.

 

Double or nothing that they will have trouble rolling it out to lifetimers and end up sending them a coupon to just buy it in the store.

 

Triple down they later just open it up to be bought, because, well, complainers gonna complain, and store purchases now mean the lights stay on...and they can email out these coupons you know...

 

Well the "Free for VIP" stuff was clearly stated as areas/content etc. So I doubt that'll have anything to do with a new class. Pretty sure I win there.  :D  Though I think you mean the "secret surprise".

 

I'd take the bet that any roll out issues apply to lifetimers as a group.

 

So if the free VIP stuff is actually a class and the secret thing is something else, or it is added to the the store on roll out, I win? Yea I'll take that bet.

 

But seriously, more to your point.

 

I know a new class is the odds on favorite. But I don't think it will be. Or at least not a new class per se.

 

If they went for a new class I'd suspect Beornling. One could even go as far as to see the Goldilocks House in HD as a tip in that direction. The reason I don't see that happening is they A) Could have just as easily done it before the Class Revisions and B) Everything they do currently is aimed at being symmetrical. 9 Classes, 3 in each Armour, 3 pretty much main stated the same, the gear runs the same. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the future adjustments makes the "fuzzy" classes a bit more focused. So new Class. possible, but not where my money would go.

 

My blind guess is adding the ability to trait across classes. Heavy's able to put points in any heavy trait, etc. I'd think you have to Specialize in your actual class could Trait in your classes off specialization for 2pts and a non class traits for 3pts. There's some finer points to what I think they'd do but that's the general gist. The thing against this is it would go against their stated "anti-homogenization" but I'm not sure I buy into that anyways.

 

I could see them making a class that allows full customization where you pick Armor, trait lines etc. If they went that route I would expect it to be purchase only.

 

Theres a couple of other possibilities to my mind but those would be the top 3.

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or a new class that had no traits but could trait across classes ;)

 

bet on? 

 

edit: and yes I took the tone to imply any surprise would be a VIP thing.

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or a new class that had no traits but could trait across classes ;)

 

bet on? 

 

edit: and yes I took the tone to imply any surprise would be a VIP thing.

 

I didn't get that from the letter, since there was a heading for Free VIP stuff that talked about new areas/content, then a couple more Heading topics, then talk about the "surprise". Actually to me the way it's laid out would suggest it has something to do with Housing, but I think that's just poor editing.

 

 

Housing

As I said earlier, Housing is still high on our list of objectives for the year, and the conversation thread can be found here <link>. We’ll be talking more about this throughout the year.
We are working on one more secret surprise, but I won’t do more than tease its existence now, other than to say that the class changes have made it possible for us to consider making a new addition to the game… which we will talk about later in the year.

 

Oh I think that's a possibility, a class that traits across all lines, I alluded to it above. 

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Does it matter what it is? It's a carrot.... like last year's housing update was, and that didn't materialize. But a lot of rp'ers and housing enthusiasts stayed around for that, probably even bought HD because of that 'promise' too.

 

Why not tell us what it is? Because it's bad for business = $$. 

 

String the customer along till the customer is exasperated, and then a little further.

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its interesting in that thread that IBM's brush with death in the 60s was put up as an example that makes the HD release issues seem trivial.

 

I've thought about it a lot, and it is a kind of interesting parallel.

 

The release of OS360 was a huge train wreck. Fred Brooks, one of the most highly respected people in the computer industry, published a book that documents the issues faced and how they could be avoided, after having worked through them himself. Its called "The Mythical Man Month". Every time you hear someone paraphrase something like "Nine women can't have a baby in a month", that comes from Brooks. And you can usually bet that that person is advocating something that Brooks probably would cringe at, but that is another story.

 

The initial plan for 360 was a three-category environment setup. Single threading, especially with low memory and limited drives, multithreading within set memory partitions assigned to the tasks, or memory allocated dynamically by some TBD system. Three option sets, sound familiar yet? But wait, the initial release only supported single threading, the other two didn't get out the door right away. It suited some small shops just fine, larger shops had to pay to be guinea pigs. Call it "Live Beta II After Launch". The multithreading option came eventually, and IBM pushed smaller customers towards that, even though some were just fine with what they had. So now two lines are "traitable". The third option came a couple years later for various reasons, not the least of which was the lack of universal memory support.

 

But to deliver what they had promised, they essentially ended up with two versions and a customer had to make plans for one or the other. The whole thing came very close to putting IBM out of the OS business and stick to hardware, an area where they had tough competition and may not have survived. Their new architecture (system370) was delayed by all this to the point where they offered several OS's for the new system when it came out, and OS/360 eventually faded away to the public domain, for those who need to keep it alive for whatever ungodly reason.

 

Starting to draw some parallels with fan hosted but otherwise dead games?

 

Now it's interesting that Brooks insisted on prototyping. From the original OS360 they actually did have a prototype that had ignored memory management problems, and they had turned it into SVS. Remember, a lot of people were fine with the basics. IBM created a shell around SVS and instead of a single virtual system it was now a multiple virtual system, and MVS was born. Two other systems came from that, one being born at the same time as OS360; VSE and VM. But MVS was and is king at IBM. And they owe a lot to the team that eventually made OS360 successful, and insured IBM never made the same mistakes again. I guess that is where the analogy breaks down. IBM learned their lesson in the 60s and 70s delivering software they couldn't make run on their own (or others') machines, and those lessons are freely published. It is now 2013, and I bet Paiz has seen the title but never read the book. Which is kind of dry I admit, but highly regarded.

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Well the "Free for VIP" stuff was clearly stated as areas/content etc. So I doubt that'll have anything to do with a new class. Pretty sure I win there.  :D  Though I think you mean the "secret surprise".

 

I'd take the bet that any roll out issues apply to lifetimers as a group.

 

So if the free VIP stuff is actually a class and the secret thing is something else, or it is added to the the store on roll out, I win? Yea I'll take that bet.

 

But seriously, more to your point.

 

I know a new class is the odds on favorite. But I don't think it will be. Or at least not a new class per se.

 

If they went for a new class I'd suspect Beornling. One could even go as far as to see the Goldilocks House in HD as a tip in that direction. The reason I don't see that happening is they A) Could have just as easily done it before the Class Revisions and B) Everything they do currently is aimed at being symmetrical. 9 Classes, 3 in each Armour, 3 pretty much main stated the same, the gear runs the same. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the future adjustments makes the "fuzzy" classes a bit more focused. So new Class. possible, but not where my money would go.

 

My blind guess is adding the ability to trait across classes. Heavy's able to put points in any heavy trait, etc. I'd think you have to Specialize in your actual class could Trait in your classes off specialization for 2pts and a non class traits for 3pts. There's some finer points to what I think they'd do but that's the general gist. The thing against this is it would go against their stated "anti-homogenization" but I'm not sure I buy into that anyways.

 

I could see them making a class that allows full customization where you pick Armor, trait lines etc. If they went that route I would expect it to be purchase only.

 

Theres a couple of other possibilities to my mind but those would be the top 3.

The thing that would make a new Beornling class the odds on to be released, is Beorn himself is in the Hobbit right now and if people start reading the books again he will become very prominent in peoples minds, Now as everyone knows in the last Hobbit film he is going to be even more prominent (assuming the film doesnt deviate wildly from his role again) so now would be a financially sound time for WB to roll out a Beorn style class in lotro. There has been a clamour for a Beornling class for a while, it certainly is going to get louder over the next year.

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With the way they have changed the game, they could make SEVERAL new classes.  If their plan moving forward is Big Battle style instances that don't really require dedicated tanks and healers anymore, etc.  then they could make a Beornling (which the Lore Absolutists would flip over because no Beornling would go to Gondor or Mordor), an Ithilien Ranger,  and a...a... well it doesn't matter.  All classes are superpowered now and I don't expect that to change more than a token amount when 'balance' arrives.  It's too easy for them to plan by having all classes be so strong.  At that point, it doesn't much matter what class you have or what it can do.

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Personally I don't think either scenario is correct in and of itself.

 

My speculation is this is all part of Turbine's long range plan for LotRO. Let me start by saying if I was in charge of the development I would not have done such an overhaul of a basic game system like the Trait Trees. I don't mind the Trees, and while they aren't up to snuff yet I think they will continue to improve on them. However I would have never authorized such a change in a game this old knowing it would alienate a many customers.

 

First off, I personally haven't been in an mmo that didn't release with multiple bugs, even more so when large new systems are added or changed. As far as I can tell it's par for the course. Having said that, Turbine seems to have a larger issue with this than any other developer I've dealt with, as well as being very slow to address and fix bugs.

 

I think part of the plan is to get the game to a Maintenance Mode state. I don't think they're there but I think the timeline is looming. My guess is they have secured the extension of the licence but it will be the last extension suited for developing new content, just long enough to get to Mordor. I'd guess that the new extension will carry them thru 2017. This would fit with their slowdown on Xpacs since they could do 2 more, Gondor and Mordor at aprox.. year and a half cycles with the time between polishing bugs and getting things stable as well as putting in some filler content and zone revamps. I'd go further to guess that the Lotro-Store will be removed entirely, replaced by Mithiril Coin Vendors, and MC's available through the Lotro-Market. There will likely be a way to trade TP for MC's as well as earn some small amount of MC's in game. TP earning in game will be reduced, I'd guess 5 TP per Advanced Slayer Deeds and 5 TP per single Tier Deeds.

 

I don't think we'll see any further major systems added but rather a streamlining, optimization and integration  of current systems. I wouldn't be shocked to see a code overhaul to facilitate this. Over the next few years we'll see the game get more symmetrical with gear etc.

 

Post Mordor they will either seek or already have secured rights to continue LotRO in Maintenance Mode. No development beyond what is done, with the possibility of adding missing content/areas. The game will be by then completely F2P with no subs, though I suspect they'll allow lifetimers to continue probably minus the monthly TP allowance.

 

How does the state of HD fit into this, as well as pretty much every Xpac since WB took over? Again my guess is that Turbine is on a minimal full time crew of senior leads. When they get ready to push an Xpac they do a temp hiring push to get everything coded and at least minimal functionality. Slowly stripping the team back as they can, relying on the full time team to fix things as time goes on. It very much looks to me like someone who has read the LUA documentation and puts together a plug-in for the first time. They may be fully competent in other codes and the plug in can operate but it could really use some optimization. Only instead of someone it's a bunch of Temps who have some documentation and a lead trying to get them all to function within the main game. "Yea, that'll work, I can get that later and fix it, next project."  

 

I think LotRO Development has been and continues to be a stepping stone into WB Games.

 

I honestly expect a short term upswing in LotRO quality as they optimize and tie everything together. However I also see more generic gear choices etc. following suit as they set the game up to be pretty much updated via a spreadsheet style maint. system except for something like yearly or every other year updates. LotRO can probably make money for many years this way. It's Tolkien, it's the only one around, requires little maint. or dev time. If they get it run smoothly while not  tons of profit it will turn a profit for as long as they can maintain it.

 

I think the full time devs are stretched thin and that good enough is the phrase of the day, but I also think it's part of a long term plan.

 

.  

Interesting...and depressing.  Hard to argue with some drastically alternative future based on what we've seen the past few years.  I can see Sapience shortly talking to himself much like Theoden in the movies before Saruman's overwhelming forces attack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdBcsdk8pEY

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With the way they have changed the game, they could make SEVERAL new classes.  If their plan moving forward is Big Battle style instances that don't really require dedicated tanks and healers anymore, etc.  then they could make a Beornling (which the Lore Absolutists would flip over because no Beornling would go to Gondor or Mordor), an Ithilien Ranger,  and a...a... well it doesn't matter.  All classes are superpowered now and I don't expect that to change more than a token amount when 'balance' arrives.  It's too easy for them to plan by having all classes be so strong.  At that point, it doesn't much matter what class you have or what it can do.

 

I doubt that their plan moving forward is Big Battle style instances.

 

Why?  Two things: past experience, and Darmokk's repeated reminders of why the developers likely have been doing what they've done.

 

Past experience: each expansion's big new feature becomes more of an afterthought as time progresses: skirmishes (Mirkwood), scaled instances (RoI or just prior to it), and mounted combat (RoR).  Even smaller features get the same "implement and forget" treatment: barter tokens were added to the game post barter wallet that, for some reason, weren't coded to go into the barter wallet, and the group finder tool seems to be finalized, despite still being fairly useless.

 

Darmokk's reminder: the devs are only focusing on things that they can feature for their employee reviews.  Big Battles are 2013's achievement, and nobody is going to make a name for himself creating a Big Battle for the Gondor expansion in 2015 (assuming such a thing ever comes about).

 

You may be right about new classes, though, especially as those would fit with Darmokk's theory - being Beornling dev #1 is probably a better resume filler than being hunter dev #14 is.

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Well in the case of Turbine and LOTRO it's double dose.

Not only is fixing bugs career poison from a employee review marketing standpoint, the Turbine group would have to admit to WB that there were bugs in the first place.

So... no.

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Well in the case of Turbine and LOTRO it's double dose.

Not only is fixing bugs career poison from a employee review marketing standpoint, the Turbine group would have to admit to WB that there were bugs in the first place.

So... no.

 

Wow, really? I'm not familiar with the coding industry, my background is mechanical. In those type of fields fixing "Tagged" items is considered a good thing. Being able to spot and repair defects to certification standards is a sought after quality. I'm not doubting you, it just seems strange to me.

 

Do you really think WB is unaware that bugs exist in the code? It's possible, it would just astound me that they hadn't researched before purchase. But even if they hadn't researched, there is no escaping talk around trade conventions. I would find it far more likely that they, as they said, bought Turbine for it's monetization systems and are using Turbine for little more than a way to screen new employees and a possible tax break.

 

When I was much younger I worked for a company called Pro-Tec Sports, where we made recumbent exercycles. This was in Southern California and we were trying for the Lifecycle dream. Design a product pretty much in a garage, get a little backing and establish a name, and sell off to a larger manufacturer. Well we got the product and had good word of mouth and were making decent money but could never get a buyer. Eventually we had pretty much saturated all we could when finally Bollinger Industries started talking to us about buying the company. There were a couple of patents we held that they were really interested in including our wheel covers. Anyways they ended up buying us out, but we definitely didn't hit the dream, lol. Some of us transferred over with BI. What they ended up doing was sticking us in a corner where we could produce bikes for incoming orders from established customers, not only allowed but "encouraged" lower quality. They applied our patents to some of their prototype equipment and used the Pro-Tec Division as a tax write off since the bikes were never actively marketed post buyout and never turned nor were intended to turn a profit after that.

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WB is a classic big company with probably quarterly employee reviews. Done by nontechnical people like HR jockeys. There will be calibration inside WB across divisions so Turbine hackers will be compared to those in other divisions. Turbine will not be able to just rate their own. As a result it is absolutely critical that:

  • your achievements are easy to understand for non-technical people. Not some wizz-wazz about virtual address space or whatever.
  • your achievements need to be communicated through the larger organization, so you cannot expose facts that your section prefers to keep for themselves. If you ignore this your group, particularly your direct supervisors, will feel that you stabbed them in the back, that you threw them under the bus for your own benefit.
  • you need to demonstrate impact. This is a critical bit. Your changes need to matter.
I expanded on the last bit, "impact", in some other thread. The main result from this requirement is that it is not a good idea to fix a bug before a release. You need to let the bug ripen a bit. Namely, hit the customers. So that there is a record of the bug mattering in the first place. Otherwise you gonna have a hard time proving that your fix matters, now won't you?

And this goes in most likely every quarter.

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While I'm at it, here is what I hate the most: victim-blaming. In general such as in rape cases, but also in software engineering.

Imagine this scenario: a dialog box says "do you really want to delete all files?". The box has "yes" and "no". But the meaning has been exchanged, "no" will nuke your stuff.

Don't say that's rare. Somewhere between the API programmer, the application programmer, the GUI designer and the translator (including English to English translations to make the application "more accessible", aka make the wordings soft so that nobody technical can really tell what the heck anything means, specifically) there's plenty opportunity, and then there is the famous "cancel" which appears in dialog boxes that ask for confirmation whether you want to cancel something (a subscription, a computer jobs, whatever) and you have no idea whether that button means aborting the operation or confirming the cancellation. Anyway, back to "yes" and "no".

You can bet that on somebody's next quarterly review a primary item is "re-engineered user interface on application foobar because a number of users got confused and deleted their own files". High impact - check. Helping users who are easily confused, the most valuable thing to do because most of the not yet customers are dumb - check. Promotions for everybody. Except for the guy who rocked the boat and brought up the bug.

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