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Explain in your own words how the US/EU is responsible for the situation in the Ukraine


Darmokk
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Some NATO general played a game of risk with his kids on the weekend and saw what strategic spot the Ukraine has there as it was held by his 8 year old son and he destroyed his dad in the game.

That prompted the general to bring this up at work on Monday.

:P

 

This is the real cause...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

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If they didn't we would all have grown up in the Hitlerjugend.

 

that is not a given.

if we had stayed out of ww1 the events that caused the rise of hilter most likely would not have happened.

germany today may have been much bigger...kept their kaiser and no ww2 with germany.

a ww2 with japan...may have still happened.

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that is not a given.

if we had stayed out of ww1 the events that caused the rise of hilter most likely would not have happened.

germany today may have been much bigger...kept their kaiser and no ww2 with germany.

a ww2 with japan...may have still happened.

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding but if by "we" you mean the US? for me this reads as if you are saying that the US created Hitler? o.O

 

My understanding of history is that at least where the Treaty of Versailles was concerned Wilson was actually opposed to the harsh sanctions on Germany that Britain and France were demanding, and fortold it would only lead to destabilizing Europe which he was against since his goal had been to see the League of Nations established and make way for trade agreements to hold the peace, but his voice seemed to be drowned out in favor the passionate interest UK/France held in subjugating and humiliating the leadership in Germany.

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Maybe I am misunderstanding but if by "we" you mean the US? for me this reads as if you are saying that the US created Hitler? o.O

 

My understanding of history is that at least where the Treaty of Versailles was concerned Wilson was actually opposed to the harsh sanctions on Germany that Britain and France were demanding, and fortold it would only lead to destabilizing Europe which he was against since his goal had been to see the League of Nations established and make way for trade agreements to hold the peace, but his voice seemed to be drowned out in favor the passionate interest UK/France held in subjugating and humiliating the leadership in Germany.

by we yes i mean the US.

no i dont think the US created the situation that brought about Hitler....that was all on the UK/France.

what i do believe is if we had stayed neutral the outcome of ww1 would not have been as devastating to Germany.

i would like to think that if Wilson had gotten his way the world would be a much more stable place today with the US more like a Switzerland then what we are today....a country reviled and hated by the very same countries that cajoled / forced the US into the unwanted role of world police.

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The Security Council is a joke.

 

The US has been vetoing resolutions against certain allies' violations of international law more often than a senator says something stupid.  Now the Russians did it, big whoop.  Besides, Crimea seceding this way was cleaner, with Putin being a true opportunist, than with proper warfare happening.  Lesser of two evils, eh?

 

It's the Tatars I feel sorry for.  Technically, they should have the vote on what country, if any, to join...  

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The Security Council is a joke.

 

The US has been vetoing resolutions against certain allies' violations of international law more often than a senator says something stupid.  Now the Russians did it, big whoop.  Besides, Crimea seceding this way was cleaner, with Putin being a true opportunist, than with proper warfare happening.  Lesser of two evils, eh?

 

It's the Tatars I feel sorry for.  Technically, they should have the vote on what country, if any, to join...  

 

It's okay to say "Israel" - you don't have to hide behind "certain allies". :)

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It's okay to say "Israel" - you don't have to hide behind "certain allies". :)

Hehe... I was thinking the same thing.

Lucky for us we have countries like Libya, Syria, Zimbabwe... representing our values on those UN committees to make sure we live in a just UN world regime.

One of the few countries whose very existence I despise.

Few?

The Security Council is a joke.

 

UN is a joke

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by we yes i mean the US.

no i dont think the US created the situation that brought about Hitler....that was all on the UK/France.

what i do believe is if we had stayed neutral the outcome of ww1 would not have been as devastating to Germany.

i would like to think that if Wilson had gotten his way the world would be a much more stable place today with the US more like a Switzerland then what we are today....a country reviled and hated by the very same countries that cajoled / forced the US into the unwanted role of world police.

What if one of our adversaries would now be in a position to inflict a military defeat on us? Such as the united Asian empire started by Japan?

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What if one of our adversaries would now be in a position to inflict a military defeat on us? Such as the united Asian empire started by Japan?

Then there is a chance your country (and most likely mine) would be better off :P

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Then there is a chance your country (and most likely mine) would be better off :P

No. Bash the US government all you like but I don't see much better around. The current German one, maybe. The situation for the citizens and their rights might be better than in the US. However, that is because the US caused a reset followed by supervision in 1945. The Asian countries are all much more corrupt, neither citizens rights nor citizens opportunities are remotely OK. The degree of badness varies.

It would be a bad thing if a communist south+latin America, the Asian empire or European fascists could threaten to defeat us militarily.

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No. Bash the US government all you like but I don't see much better around. The current German one, maybe. The situation for the citizens and their rights might be better than in the US. However, that is because the US caused a reset followed by supervision in 1945. The Asian countries are all much more corrupt, neither citizens rights nor citizens opportunities are remotely OK. The degree of badness varies.

It would be a bad thing if a communist south+latin America, the Asian empire or European fascists could threaten to defeat us militarily.

You must not be looking hard enough if you think the US government is the best around (well, now I'm curious as to your criteria for 'best').

And (most) Asian countries are corrupted because they were poorer. They're going through their teething stage, just as most western countries did.

As for rights, what year is it? 1930? Tons of countries have rights now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49NOyJ8fNA

I would argue, Israel is the ONLY country in the middle-east I can stand.

Democracy = check.

Equal rights for all = check.

Just because they take no nonsense from the arabs they get extra credit, as well.

Not entirely true. There's criticism that the Israelis give preferential treatment to their Jewish citizens, for example giving larger water rations to Jews over Palestinians. But it's usually drowned out by claims of 'anti-Semitism' from the Israelis.

The western media paints a very attractive picture of the sort of 'democracy' Israel provides, but I'm guessing they have their reasons for doing so.

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What media would that be, cause it certainly isn't Swedish media or the BBC.

Mostly the US media outlets and the other stupid ones in Britain. The BBC prefers to avoid the negatives. They aren't lying, they just aren't reporting. I wouldn't know about Swedish media because I don't speak Swedish.

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Who gives a shit about US media?

Yeah, the BBC aren't reporting, they certainly wasn't reporting when one of their journalist's kid got killed by supposed Israeli rocket fire, only, it turned out it was Hamas, and that certainly was reported. And then we all woke up and realized actually, BBC reported the other way around.

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Nah, I think for all it's faults the current political system in the US has an interesting approach to open (legal) corruption that manages to keep it in check much better than the hidden ones. Comparing the situation of one individual when it comes to risks and opportunities the US, Germany and a couple others came out easily on top for me. I think I'm reasonably well-informed about many Asian countries, especially China.

The US has some hotspots of problems that can reset individual's lives without them screwing up badly enough, but for most of those things I blame braindead voters that serve as useful idiots to some, few in power. Overall I think the US is doing a good job of not letting randomly selected individuals take fatal falls. Which really is what corruption is about. It isn't so much the amount of money that is sucked out of the system by some individuals. The problem is that some (other) individuals are taking much more than their fair share of the damage.

Overall I would think it is a shame if the US wasn't able to defend themselves against force by any other power in the world. Being isolationist from 1914 on could have easily resulted in that.

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