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Player Council 2014 Formed


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Once again Sap proves what a jerk he is - basically putting down both God of Wine and Spelunker - insinuating his low view of players in his post:

I find it very odd that numerous people think highly of him, but none so highly as to submit a simple nomination, including his strongest supporter. Though you ready to lay blame and question the validity of the whole process as a result. I think that does say a great deal indeed.

 

What a loser.

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Fascinating.  I thought it was rather clear people disagreed with his disrespect of others.   You perhaps need to consider something from an outsider's perspective: not many of us will give a hoot w

Heh, so he picked people "able to be civil" where "civil" means "agrees entirely with Turbine" and naysayers are plain uncivilized?

Agreed. While I'm no fan of Rick Heaton, it says something about the general quality level of LOTRO that the #1 discussion point worth talking about here is a Community Manager, and not the game itsel

Do you feel the any of the post was appropriate? It'd be nearly impossible to justify any of it if you're not ok with that portion.

 

I think this is less a case of becoming more ok with his choices as much as it is a 'Does Spelunker mind? (he's the guy they're talking about!) ' 'Would I mind if it was me they were talking about?' I'd absolutely have appreciated a similar post from +Sapience about me. Not only did I get the grief from players over not applying. There were a few remarks that I couldn't have possibly not applied. That I was just trying to minimize expectations from others in case I didn't make it...

Certainly you can't be trying to argue whether or not GodofBrandywine's lack of nomination submission was a fact that he didn't give up the right to privacy on..

 

Way to miss the point Crell. It is not that Sap said GofWine did not nominate him - it is the insulting way Sap says he must have something wrong with him because not one single player nominated him (except in one small comment in their application). This is about as unprofessional as any CM can be - it shows a lack of respect for players.

 

Sap is basically saying (which I quote above) that GofWine is just a troublemaker who is critical of the game and the PC, and he says lack of anyone nominating Spelunker to the PC is proof he would not be a good candidate - or more specifically no one had a high opinion of him because they did not nominate him. Which is obviously crap - people could have many reasons for not nominating a single player - including the game is dying and why do we even need a PC at this point.

 

tl;dr  you look funny defending Sap's bad behavior. So what if you would want him to say publicly YOU received no nominations - Sap is being insulting and putting down two players here.

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I honestly think that you are in the minority thinking anything interesting relating to the PC.

I loathed the idea when it was first suggested, I loathed it last year and to be honest I imagine that most of those in it this year will be even further up Turbines arse.

Celebrating a bunch of people vetted to be heavy censored yes men and women who don't represent any of the actual player base at all, well each to their own and if you do get in this time, it looks like my old Ridermark kin was right when they initially discussed how they hated the idea and a few people said it would likely consist of people like Crell and some jokingly betting you would be picked in the original lot.

I didn't know who you were at the time, but if you have got in which you seem to be implying, if so many of those that both hated the idea of a PC, and also knew you, thought that, well they must have thought that for a reason.

By their comments, it implies they thought that such a PC would be even worse than a randomly selected group of people. Why they thought that about you I haven't a clue, but out of such a small amount of players selected for the PC, if you are one of them, it does make me raise my eyebrows.

Gonna have to second that,

 

Crell, I think you place the importance and significance of the PC a lot higher than the general population does, you clearly view it as something useful and also aspire to be part of it and good luck to you on that, but honestly I think you are in an extreme minority with that.

 

The vast majority of people who I have spoke to about it really couldnt care less about it and those that do have an opinion about it generally see it as a joke.

 

No-one I know thinks it serves any purpose, no-one I know thinks it is anything other than a publicity stunt gone laughably wrong. I know plenty of people who would do great things should they be elected to a council, but in no way would I ever nominate a single one of those people to this sham.

 

The biggest task facing council members this time around is convincing the community that the council is something more than to just laugh at and poke fun, and honestly I cant ever see that happening.

 

You say that we may be pleasently surprised by the names that we see on the council this year, I have to tell you I think your living in a bubble, if I was to see some of the better player names on that thing I would weep, Vodomir's name was mentioned earlier, as a champ and someone who owes a lot to his contributions on what used to be a very informative champ class forum, I would be distraught to see his name on that council, i do not believe for a single second his experience and knowledge would be put to the slightest use in that mickey mouse club for happy clapping sicophants, all that would happen is his voice would be gradually ground away from the places he served best.

 

If being on the council is something you really want and you actually believe you can do some good,then best of luck to you, but please dont start expecting people to follow you on that, maybe over the next year I will be proved wrong and we will see some incredible changes to the game and the attitudes surrounding the OF, but I dont believe that will be the case, I predict the same as last year, silencing critics, banning of dissenters, continued downward trend in standard of game and development, and no word on what the PC actually ever did/does.

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About the Rick Heaton Is Incompetent thing. A few things occurred to me, though I didn't follow all the posts in detail:

(1) I think everyone can agree that the "good" players have either left or significantly reduced play hours and no longer spend notable money on the game...

(2) and because these players have moved on mostly or entirely, they do not place any value in this player council political veil because they recognize that the PC didn't and can't help them,

and (3) the players left who are satisfied with the state of the game (barring increased "difficulty") will hardly want to give support votes to those "good" players who don't have matching solo-faceroll playstyles...

Therefore Rick Heaton really is stupid. Obviously, the reason why no one will nominate the old-school "good" players onto the PC is because they no longer care about LotRO and know it's out of the picture as a legit MMO, so why would anyone want to be on the PC ploy? Waste of time. And then certainly anyone who likes the general faceroll and class dumbing down wouldn't want to vote for those raiding/PvMP/theorycrafting players either. Seriously, duh.

This isn't rocket surgery.

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I loathed the idea when it was first suggested, I loathed it last year and to be honest I imagine that most of those in it this year will be even further up Turbines arse.

 

This.

 

I was ambivalent about the idea in its original format and frankly, my exposure to some of the 2013 council members during the HD beta was as much of a component of my decision to unsubscribe from LoTRO as the system changes that came with HD.

 

I wish the folks who are selected luck, but I don't believe they represent my interests.

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Way to miss the point Crell. It is not that Sap said GofWine did not nominate him - it is the insulting way Sap says he must have something wrong with him because not one single player nominated him (except in one small comment in their application). This is about as unprofessional as any CM can be - it shows a lack of respect for players.

 

Sap is basically saying (which I quote above) that GofWine is just a troublemaker who is critical of the game and the PC, and he says lack of anyone nominating Spelunker to the PC is proof he would not be a good candidate - or more specifically no one had a high opinion of him because they did not nominate him. Which is obviously crap - people could have many reasons for not nominating a single player - including the game is dying and why do we even need a PC at this point.

 

tl;dr  you look funny defending Sap's bad behavior. So what if you would want him to say publicly YOU received no nominations - Sap is being insulting and putting down two players here.

 

This is the real problem with Sap's post, he can't resist that small mean impulse he has to name and shame people that the forum community look up to, when they are people who dare to be critical of things he holds dear (see: YouKnowWho for calling him out on the general tone of his posts in HD beta.)   

 

This is just more of the same.   

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This is the real problem with Sap's post, he can't resist that small mean impulse he has to name and shame people that the forum community look up to, when they are people who dare to be critical of things he holds dear (see: YouKnowWho for calling him out on the general tone of his posts in HD beta.)   

 

This is just more of the same.   

You guys already know I have nothing personal against Sap Man.  But there are his usual exploits which I expect and then there's gems like the one Nosam has pointed out.  While I know all too well the compassion some of us have for the game, this is no excuse for a renegade CM to  run around and mock/call out/make jest of the players.  If he's read anything Spelunker has written ever he would know that he is usually trying to help the developer and not flame them as I have in the past.  Let's just hope he finds his way here where he can be immune to the CM's wrath of hatred. 

 

So let me get this straight, you've got a player trying to be helpful but since his opinion doesn't agree with the new Turbine mantra of produce cheap content and get the last dollar out of the players left, he is shamed by the CM. 

 

Could this have not been resolved via PM? 

 

Crell I know you speak to him.  If you could hand deliver a message.  If Sap agrees to no longer publicly shame players on his personal toy the O board I will agree to never talk about Lotro here again or visit his forum EVER.   If I can get him to stop shaming players with personal details I think 1 part of the battle may be won. 

 

I just can't believe the representative for any company is allowed to shame customers.  Maybe he's just trying to remove the remaining "complainers" who he feels will reveal their greed and shitty gameplay.

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I have pretty much lost caring about Lotro and the PC at this point. I just have some vague interest in what will happen with the game, but can't even get myself to go back and play it. I even have it installed (but not patched). I really see no point at all to the PC now - it will be just a tool used by Turbine for good PR, to manipulate players with they messages, to get some free labor and feedback, and to meet Sapience's ego needs so he can feel important.

 

The game is in such a bad state, with so little money for development, what is even the point now?

 

Anyway, I have majorly lost interest in Lotro and the O forums. I am sure a lot of other have too in the last year or so. I care more about the people on these forums and what they have to say than anything about Lotro at this point. 

 

PS Kudos to the Lotro players who still believe/pretend that anything is going to get better in this game - an MMO with little content coming, no instances, and no more expansions coming.

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I dont know whether or not to be more amused or annoyed at the remarks you recall by your kinmates.

Though, honestly, I can't think of a single person who said expected me to be on it for 2013 who had a negative view toward me. Nor did I feel people were hesitant to point out when I was doing stuff that ticked them off at the time (in glff/ooc/elsewhere!) Maybe I'm naive but I know that most of my kinnies were going down lists of players in their head and speculating who'd make it (both NO and YES folk alike) and who they'd like to see who wouldnt make it. I also recall there was little else to do at the time waiting for people to show up to do some content..maybe. It was at the very least something we found entertaining together.

I think this forum has enough examples to show that they're not all yes-man who are accepted if one takes the time to look.

I wasn't meaning to be rude, I apologise if it came across that way. I'll try again.

When it was first announced, and we were discussing it in kin, I remember a few raiders saying words to the effect of

"Can imagine it's people like Crell who will apply", followed by jovial remarks betting you would be one of the PC and other jovial remarks about a PC consisting of a load of Crells

I don't recall them saying anything nasty about you, more they thought you were exactly the sort of person that would love the idea and would love to be part of it.

Seeing your comments and excitement about this year's PC just reminded me of that conversation, and you have to admit, they were pretty spot on with their assuming it would appeal to you.

Again nothing derogatory was said about you, more people that obviously knew you saying something that had it been on this forum, someone might jokingly say for example:

"It's the sort of thing Darmokk would jump at being part of", and a few others who know Darmokk saying "o no, can you imagine a whole PC filled with Darmokk clones"

Not sure if I'm making it better or worse

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I wasn't meaning to be rude, I apologise if it came across that way. I'll try again.

When it was first announced, and we were discussing it in kin, I remember a few raiders saying words to the effect of

"Can imagine it's people like Crell who will apply", followed by jovial remarks betting you would be one of the PC and other jovial remarks about a PC consisting of a load of Crells

I don't recall them saying anything nasty about you, more they thought you were exactly the sort of person that would love the idea and would love to be part of it.

*snip* You have to admit, they were pretty spot on with their assuming it would appeal to you.

*snip*

Not sure if I'm making it better or worse

I didn't take it as a personal attack. You mostly made it clearer, if not better. Let me take the time to remind you of another aspect. I went out of my way to make it crystal clear I had no intention of taking part in 2013. I didn't want Turbine, my fellow players or anyone else wasting their time trying to get me to participate in the process or providing a nomination on my behalf. I was entirely convinced it was nothing more than a PR scam, or way to heide any controversial decisions behind something resembling 'The player council members signed off, it must be great!' Others here probably feel the inclusion of Starvo followed by the rest of his poor experience he shared suggested that dissenting voices were selected primarily for the purpose of putting a gag on their remarks elsewhere. Yet, we can see others like LordV, Runsei and TSK that weren't afraid to speak their mind in public when ever it seemed warranted (HD Beta..)

 

Yes, I had high hopes for what they could accomplish, and it saddens me that we didn't get to see more of what took place. What little I did manage to glean was encouraging, and I felt it was at least worth my time to put application in and see what came of it. I had nothing to lose but time, for the chance to try and bring some sense of enjoyment back into a game I couldn't stop recommending to others long ago, but wouldn't consider doing now. I applied to the 2014PC. Even if it hadn't been something I'd planned on doing, for awhile +Rowan's announcement about the new class being on the horizon would have gotten me to apply, simply because of how much there is to consider with a new class. It would bring the potential return of many players. It would spark new players to perhaps give it a shot. It would be a place where a tangible contribution could be made to an aspect of the game didn't have cobwebs growing on it, withering away to die if it wasn't dead already.

 

Given +Sapience's remark that members of the 2014 PC were instructed not to talk about being selected until *peers at clock* Later this morning when the announcements are made,  I don't have any specific names to point to to try and encourage people. YET.  I'm sure there will at least be a few names like last year that people are aghast made it on, and others players will be stunned aren't there (such as Galuhad who stated he didn't get an invitation, even though there are some Kinship changes on the horizon if they don't get discarded like Housing wound up being.)

 

I hope the list is generally one viewed in a positive light.

 

 

In the meantime I'd like you all to think back to the posts made after the list in 2013 was announced. We talked at length about what we knew of the 2013PC members. We talked about Frorum/In-game attitudes, posting styles, social reach on their worlds and elsewhere, game-aspect focuses both expressed and stated, whether or not their suggestions tended to be fleshed out. Did they actively participate in betas? Were they likely to be open to change their mind when presented with a reasonable differing opinion? Were they the sort to rally behind a change they felt would be good for players, even if they didn't personally like it? Were their ideas widely varied, or did they tend to try to ram the same idea/concept/viewpoint into every thread? Did they have any accomplishments or contributions they were known for amongst the wider base (For example, Fredelas's posts about Hytbold, or Mr Warg's creep guides..) Some of us went to great lengths to track down information that wasn't widely public along the way to inform our thoughts on their inclusion. For example. We used altfinder, we checked old post threads for interactions with others and went down kinship member lists.

 

I hope players will consider just how much they value their own privacy. This year, If you wouldn't be willing to have +Sapience share that sort of detail about you, you shouldn't share it either.

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Frankly, I am surprised that they still find that many candidates for the PC. I still haven't checked U13, and probably won't before mid-may. When I last logged in, I checked my kin list and my friend list and realised only a few logged in during the last 30 days.

 

My wish for PC members: enjoy what's left of the game, and try not to get too angry at the things which are coming.

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How I view the Players Council:

The Players Council is a creation of Sapience.

The membership of the Players Council is hand-picked by Sapience and serve at his pleasure.

Sapience is a loathsome cyber-bully and sociopath.

Sapience has proven himself a shameless liar and hypocrite countless times.

Sapience lacks any qualifications or aptitude whatsoever for the job he is supposed to be doing.

The sole purpose of the Players Council is to advance Sapience's agenda.

To the extent the Players Council accomplishes anything, it will be as a willing tool of Sapience.

To the extent the Players Council tries to do anything else, it will be impotent.

In simple terms, the Players Council is the weapon of the Enemy.

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I didn't take it as a personal attack. You mostly made it clearer, if not better. Let me take the time to remind you of another aspect. I went out of my way to make it crystal clear I had no intention of taking part in 2013. I didn't want Turbine, my fellow players or anyone else wasting their time trying to get me to participate in the process or providing a nomination on my behalf. I was entirely convinced it was nothing more than a PR scam, or way to heide any controversial decisions behind something resembling 'The player council members signed off, it must be great!' Others here probably feel the inclusion of Starvo followed by the rest of his poor experience he shared suggested that dissenting voices were selected primarily for the purpose of putting a gag on their remarks elsewhere. Yet, we can see others like LordV, Runsei and TSK that weren't afraid to speak their mind in public when ever it seemed warranted (HD Beta..)

 

Yes, I had high hopes for what they could accomplish, and it saddens me that we didn't get to see more of what took place. What little I did manage to glean was encouraging, and I felt it was at least worth my time to put application in and see what came of it. I had nothing to lose but time, for the chance to try and bring some sense of enjoyment back into a game I couldn't stop recommending to others long ago, but wouldn't consider doing now. I applied to the 2014PC. Even if it hadn't been something I'd planned on doing, for awhile +Rowan's announcement about the new class being on the horizon would have gotten me to apply, simply because of how much there is to consider with a new class. It would bring the potential return of many players. It would spark new players to perhaps give it a shot. It would be a place where a tangible contribution could be made to an aspect of the game didn't have cobwebs growing on it, withering away to die if it wasn't dead already.

 

Given +Sapience's remark that members of the 2014 PC were instructed not to talk about being selected until *peers at clock* Later this morning when the announcements are made,  I don't have any specific names to point to to try and encourage people. YET.  I'm sure there will at least be a few names like last year that people are aghast made it on, and others players will be stunned aren't there (such as Galuhad who stated he didn't get an invitation, even though there are some Kinship changes on the horizon if they don't get discarded like Housing wound up being.)

 

I hope the list is generally one viewed in a positive light.

 

 

In the meantime I'd like you all to think back to the posts made after the list in 2013 was announced. We talked at length about what we knew of the 2013PC members. We talked about Frorum/In-game attitudes, posting styles, social reach on their worlds and elsewhere, game-aspect focuses both expressed and stated, whether or not their suggestions tended to be fleshed out. Did they actively participate in betas? Were they likely to be open to change their mind when presented with a reasonable differing opinion? Were they the sort to rally behind a change they felt would be good for players, even if they didn't personally like it? Were their ideas widely varied, or did they tend to try to ram the same idea/concept/viewpoint into every thread? Did they have any accomplishments or contributions they were known for amongst the wider base (For example, Fredelas's posts about Hytbold, or Mr Warg's creep guides..) Some of us went to great lengths to track down information that wasn't widely public along the way to inform our thoughts on their inclusion. For example. We used altfinder, we checked old post threads for interactions with others and went down kinship member lists.

 

I hope players will consider just how much they value their own privacy. This year, If you wouldn't be willing to have +Sapience share that sort of detail about you, you shouldn't share it either.

 

 

Holy crap, that sounds like a threat!  WTF Crell?

 

Also, once again, it's STAVRO, for the detail-lovers out there.

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Holy crap, that sounds like a threat!  WTF Crell?

 

Also, once again, it's STAVRO, for the detail-lovers out there.

How is it a threat War?

My take on the points you have in bold is:

1) Last year many people "investigated" on line to find out more about those selected for the PC. (pretty standard stuff on the internet IMO)

2) If you don't like the thought of Sapience divulging your information then don't tell him the information in the first place. (pretty standard stuff in general life I think)

I hate facebook and twitter type apps for exactly this reason. I'm more comfortable with my personal information when it is shared on a more personal level rather than placed on the internet where nothing is personal.

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How is it a threat War?

My take on the points you have in bold is:

1) Last year many people "investigated" on line to find out more about those selected for the PC. (pretty standard stuff on the internet IMO)

2) If you don't like the thought of Sapience divulging your information then don't tell him the information in the first place. (pretty standard stuff in general life I think)

I hate facebook and twitter type apps for exactly this reason. I'm more comfortable with my personal information when it is shared on a more personal level rather than placed on the internet where nothing is personal.

 

There's a difference between sticking ones personal information on Facebook etc and wondering why people suddenly know all the ins and outs of ones life and passing relevant information onto someone as part of an application where the information is only being sent to that individual and is not being made public.

 

Sap was collecting that information for a specific purpose - as supporting evidence for PC14 applications. The persons applying were not just chucking that data out on twitter or even sticking it on the official forum. Even though I did not apply for PC14 (that's another discussion) if I had I would have submitted my application on the assumption that the information provided was only going to be used for the purposes of my candidature and certainly not referenced on the OF.

 

So in a sense what you're saying fittybolger is that any information you send to Turbine is fair game for Sap to use in whatever manner he fancies. What about my credit card details? My home address information? 

 

As an aside, in the UK we have a little law called the Data Protection Act. In short if I send my personal information to an organisation say to complete a purchase of a product, that company cannot then reuse that information in any way outside of the it's original intended purpose, unless of course I state up front that they can. Not sure whether the states, canada etc have similar state or federal laws protecting personal information in this way.

 

Like I said earlier in this thread, some people need to live in the real world, stop treating that fuckwit of a forum admin like he's some pal who's a bit confused and hold him up to the same standards that we see from other organisations.

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How I view the Players Council:

The Players Council is a creation of Sapience.

The membership of the Players Council is hand-picked by Sapience and serve at his pleasure.

Sapience is a loathsome cyber-bully and sociopath.

Sapience has proven himself a shameless liar and hypocrite countless times.

Sapience lacks any qualifications or aptitude whatsoever for the job he is supposed to be doing.

The sole purpose of the Players Council is to advance Sapience's agenda.

To the extent the Players Council accomplishes anything, it will be as a willing tool of Sapience.

To the extent the Players Council tries to do anything else, it will be impotent.

In simple terms, the Players Council is the weapon of the Enemy.

You have a few things wrong here.

 

As long as you weren't a db troll you weren't going anywhere.

 

What is Sapience's agenda?

 

You may be surprised at how little Sapience influenced the discussions of the PC, besides the requirement to be civil.

 

The PC is not anyone's enemy.

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There's a difference between sticking ones personal information on Facebook etc and wondering why people suddenly know all the ins and outs of ones life and passing relevant information onto someone as part of an application where the information is only being sent to that individual and is not being made public.

The next logical step, which of course wouldn't be unethical/sketchy by any stretch of the imagination according to Turbine, is to publish on the OF all the names of applicants who were rejected. Perfect opportunity for public shaming!

You maybe be surprised at how little Sapience influenced the discussions of the PC, besides the requirement to be civil.

The PC is not anyone's enemy.

Except when he's the only one empowered to pick who's on it, that in itself is a type of influence. Like the incompetent director in our department who hires only fresh college grads so she can mold them to her image, firing anyone who disagrees with her way of doing things.

The PC isn't necessarily anyone's friend either. Given how the NDA works and the type of publicizing Turbine has done for it. Let's face it, with how controversial PC 2013 was, 2014 has to be rebuilt from the ground up in terms of communication and decision-making...assuming "change" in the positive sense is an actual goal.

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ANd they have announced the new batch of cannon fodder...

 

Notable acceptants are The crossbow and Nymphonic. 

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?547180-Introducing-the-2014-LOTRO-Players-Council

 

Amandakay
ArsSupervivendi
Balamoor
Beaniemooch
Bedalin
Belnavar
Brandon_Blackbird
Burgus
Cassie4486
DeadlyGazebo
EliciaVanWren
Feanors_Fury
Fipiara
FrickinMuck
Guinevere2
Holweis 
Hyos
Idril_Felagund
Iolanthie
Ithyniel
ItsKiva
Jillymala
Johann1
Karakedi
KayleahSunshine
Kitten2012
Lethareth
Lurkerinthemist
Maelchirion
Maradakia
Nimlari
Nymphonic
Pherenn
Proudcdn
Ravynne
Reggyrat
Rimfin
Rubriel
Ryerord
Sezneg
Skoch
Snowlock
SvenNiscadae
TheCrossbow
VeryBeary

 

 

In addition to those named above, we also asked 9 members of the 2013 players council to return and help us mentor and assist the new council members and continue to provide the same great levels of feedback we've come to expect from them and all of our council members. Also in alphabetical order.

EmyrSelyf
Hakiryu
Kickman77
Maxal
MrWarg
Raven-EU
VoronturEU
XinaLotRO
Yicky

 

Also - As of this post, the 2013 players council is released from their council NDA.

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Whoa!

 

2013 released from NDA!

Awesome!

I asked for it in several posts but NEVER thought it would happen!

 

Come here TSK = tell us a story :)

 

Edit: need to think on those names some but there are some very good names there.

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ANd they have announced the new batch of cannon fodder...

 

Notable acceptants are The crossbow and Nymphonic. 

Beaniemooch and Fricknmuck are also fairly notable, imo. The rest don't ring a bell much.

Except when he's the only one empowered to pick who's on it, that in itself is a type of influence. Like the incompetent director in our department who hires only fresh college grads so she can mold them to her image, firing anyone who disagrees with her way of doing things.

The PC isn't necessarily anyone's friend either. Given how the NDA works and the type of publicizing Turbine has done for it. Let's face it, with how controversial PC 2013 was, 2014 has to be rebuilt from the ground up in terms of communication and decision-making...assuming "change" in the positive sense is an actual goal.

He picked those who mostly show that they can be civil.

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Beaniemooch and Fricknmuck are also fairly notable, imo. The rest don't ring a bell much.

 

Along with Nymphonic mentioned above... Not really a surprise either.. any obvious people who DONT agree with Turbine policy? Oh, yeah.. thats right PC is supposed to be Turbine "Yes men." I contacted one of the former members in the middle of the year last year, said she left the PC due to time constraints on her part and internal issues inside the PC. Of course, i cant access that message since my ban.

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Holy crap, that sounds like a threat!  WTF Crell?

 

Also, once again, it's STAVRO, for the detail-lovers out there.

Not a threat. Just sick of people ranting about Sapience making private stuff public when they did similiar, with stuff in my opinion that was more personal than what he did this time.

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