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vr00mie

Has the game become more challenging?

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Since I haven't played Lotro for quite some time, I'd like to ask those here still playing if the last patch increased the difficulty. I've heard some murmuring about it, but since my kin is basically dead, I can't really log in and test for myself unless i want to PUG.

So, is 3/6/12 mans now challenging in T2C and require both a dedicated tank and healer?

Is there any landscape content that now requires you to think before charging in?

Is PvP in a more balanced state?

I probably wont be coming back since they destroyed the threat system, and there's almost noone to play with (not to mention only old group content), but lotro is my first love, and it's always fun to keep yourself updated, and while I've seen many comments on the new content with reputation grind and rng huorns, I've seen nothing about difficulty changes to older content

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I found combat slightly more difficult at 55ish+  I was playing a hunter and minstrel through Moria and that first area in Lothlorien - I had to watch my pulls a little bit in some of those camps this time around (I played though a month or 2 ago and was pulling entire camps with not much problem).  Also finishing off the Moria epic I actually had to use some healing potions (ymmv - I am very average although I have decent level 58 crafted gear)

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Just speaking as a guardian, they haven't destroyed the threat system. It's just a bit different, and I'm still re-learning how often threat skills need to be spammed.

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to add: I found the mounted combat definitely harder in Kingstead under U13 - haven't tried it since the Monday patch 

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It's slightly more challenging, we were still 3 manning T3 6 man skirmishes last night but I think one of us may have died once!

 

It certainly isn't as faceroll as when HD was released but it isn't as hard as it was say 12 months ago (IMHO)

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Just speaking as a guardian, they haven't destroyed the threat system. It's just a bit different, and I'm still re-learning how often threat skills need to be spammed.

Well, perhaps I should have used the word changed instead of destroyed. For me, personally, it's ruined, as I loved the game of staying just on the edge all the time with my aggro, and maximizing my defences. And now it's just a one-click-and-hold system.

It's nice to see that they have managed to turn up the difficulty a bit, even if it seems to not have been enough (?). I would love to be able to play BG and OD again with the difficulty they were released with

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Well, perhaps I should have used the word changed instead of destroyed. For me, personally, it's ruined, as I loved the game of staying just on the edge all the time with my aggro, and maximizing my defences. And now it's just a one-click-and-hold system.

...

 

I'm puzzled you should say that. It's certainly not my experience; I still find it necessary to rotate through aggro skills at the right rate. If anything, there's slightly more chance of hunters or healers grabbing aggro than there used to be.

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I'm puzzled you should say that. It's certainly not my experience; I still find it necessary to rotate through aggro skills at the right rate. If anything, there's slightly more chance of hunters or healers grabbing aggro than there used to be.

Have they changed it again then? Last time I played, if someone else got aggro, it was one (ranged) skill and I got both force taunt and a bump to the top of the aggro table

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At 95, no, not more challenging at all for heavy classes

For example, I can pull/kill all the mobs of first room in School (37 mobs at same time) with my undergeared Guardian in Blue (it takes time, no DPS in Blue)

Heavy classes can still solo T2/T3 skraids.

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Have they changed it again then? Last time I played, if someone else got aggro, it was one (ranged) skill and I got both force taunt and a bump to the top of the aggro table

 

Was that Fray the Edge? I don't get that dramatic effect from it now.

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Was that Fray the Edge? I don't get that dramatic effect from it now.

Fray the Edge was never a force taunt. You're thinking of Engage which was both a taunt and a bump to the top of the agro table for the mob.

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Was that Fray the Edge? I don't get that dramatic effect from it now.

I believe it was yes. It was the main reason we finally completed Flight T2C, since our guard could stand at a distance and reliably pull the warriors one by one

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Fray the Edge was never a force taunt. You're thinking of Engage which was both a taunt and a bump to the top of the agro table for the mob.

Fray the Edge is the only ranged skill, in my build at least. I realise it's not a force-taunt but for this it doesn't need to be:-

 

I believe it was yes. It was the main reason we finally completed Flight T2C, since our guard could stand at a distance and reliably pull the warriors one by one

I expect a guard could still do that. I think it's questionable whether a guard should have any ranged taunts. How would that work, a tight-beam directional shout? We have had that one for some time though. It is indeed a very handy pull.

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FtE has been a Force Attack since the character revamp, it isn't an threat bump. With the Force Attack duration legacy a guard can keep a single target perma-locked, barring resists. There's also a Forced Attack increase set bonus on the EB jewelry.

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Oooo... must read tooltips more carefully, and also try it out. Thanks.

 

<EDIT> And thinking about it, a ranged force-taunt is a serious dumbing down.

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Back in the day, Guardians had at least two ranged force-taunts: Challenge (single-target) and Challenge the Darkness (multi-target, legendary trait IIRC).

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Challenge the Darkness was tied to one of the Legendary Books. I'm not sure which though, now, as it's a while since I did them!

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Challenge the Darkness was tied to one of the Legendary Books. I'm not sure which though, now, as it's a while since I did them!

 

CtD is now the 4th Tier Blue Specialization Bonus. It's a passive that gives Challenge +5 targets and applies Guardians Ward when Challenge is used.

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Back in the day, Guardians had at least two ranged force-taunts: Challenge (single-target) and Challenge the Darkness (multi-target, legendary trait IIRC).

FtE is 25m IIRC, while Challenge is 5m at most. It does make quite a difference. Challenge the darkness isn't what it used to be.

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I've always thought of Challenge as a contact skill; its range isn't very far.

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Back in the day, Guardians had at least two ranged force-taunts: Challenge (single-target) and Challenge the Darkness (multi-target, legendary trait IIRC).

 

I used to raid with my guardian back in SOA so pre-LI days. This is how I recalled using the skills:

 

1. Challenge - Agro grab / force taunt for initial agro

 

2. Fray the Edge - Used to increase agro as part of the standard agro-generation rotation. Also recall using it to build up a "head of steam" on the Balrog in the Rift.

 

3. Challenge the Darkness - I always had this slotted as Guardian's Threat Stance was just not required. This was my "oh shit" threat skill for picking up a swarm of adds and stop them jumping on the minstrel.

 

4. Engage - Jump to the top of the agro table. Can't recall any encounters needing it specifically apart from it being a great catch up quick skill.

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They may not have destroyed the actual tanking mechanic, but any need for it.   With EB's being the new content going forward there just isn't enough demand for tanks.  As soon as the force taunts wear off they'll go beat on the NPC's.  No matter how many shield slams, shield taunts you use.

 

I used to use Challenge (intial threat), then Litany of Defiance (this skill has been ruined and changed from it's original form ) and shield taunts to build more threat.   Mix in some whirling Rets.  This tactic worked for me from ROI until late ROR.  Before that I can't remember as I was still tanking in WOW at the same time.  It all blends into 1 story.

 

But seriously folks we should start a new thread on Guardians.

 

 

As far as the difficulty is concerned I saw very little doing solo quests on a level 95 guardian after the update.   I'm still able to pull tons of mobs and lose little morale.  My warden always treats any content as if it were joke worthy.   I do have a level 57ish RK I tried out after the update (if you want ot call it that).    The new system just seems to make having more maxxed out virtues important.  With level 85-95 toons its pretty much not noticed.  But on those lower level toons it was.  I'm pretty sure making the game harder for level 57 toons was not what players were begging for when they asked for more difficulty.

 

Maybe the folks at turbine missed the video of the level 95 warden completing a level 95 t3 skraid in his underwear with a frying pan? 

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Maybe the folks at turbine missed the video of the level 95 warden completing a level 95 t3 skraid in his underwear with a frying pan? 

 

That video doesn't count because there's always some asshat (oh sorry, I meant poor casual) on OF who's never played a Warden and "surely cannot do that". Therefore, OF logic dictates that only the one person in the video is capable of it and then it is not a problem.

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Well, this thread has gone a bit offtopic, but I think it's nice to see some other reactions to the threat changes. I was actually never much of a Guardian myself, tho I have tanked most of the post RoI things in the game on one.

But I knew that when they removed Aggression and gave Call to Battle a damage component on the Warden, it was basically over for me.

I was there for some rough times with my Warden (RoI launch anyone?), but that was really the final straw for me. There's a limit to how many times you can change the fundamental mechanics of a class before the (long time) players just give up.

After HD, my Warden just didn't feel like a Warden anymore.

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