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Has the game become more challenging?


vr00mie
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I'm genuinely mystified by the responses of some of the posters on the OF. I fail to see where it is any more difficult then it was before U12. There has been a lot of talk of MC and the lvl 85-90 range and I haven't tested those (hate MC, don't have any playable toons in the range that I want to play). But have they already forgotten Bugud? A raid warband that was easy to solo if you kept awake long enough but who would one-shot you if you messed it up (or lagged). Pretty much any other level range I've tested, and on a variety of classes. Still OP.

 

What have these players been doing for the last few years? How did they even survive?

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I'm genuinely mystified by the responses of some of the posters on the OF. I fail to see where it is any more difficult then it was before U12. There has been a lot of talk of MC and the lvl 85-90 range and I haven't tested those (hate MC, don't have any playable toons in the range that I want to play). But have they already forgotten Bugud? A raid warband that was easy to solo if you kept awake long enough but who would one-shot you if you messed it up (or lagged). Pretty much any other level range I've tested, and on a variety of classes. Still OP.

 

What have these players been doing for the last few years? How did they even survive?

 

The problem is that the span between a good player and a "poor casual" is so huge. Back at lvl 75 I could do about 1.8-2k DPS (if not more) in a single target raid boss fight on my hunter (and I've never been close to being the best Hunter) - there are lvl 95 hunters that can't even do that.

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At least people can't faceroll OD fear wing t2c anymore, because most people now lack the required phys/tact mit that they previously got for free with vitality. Was fun to watch yesterday; a raid leader had a warden with half-yellow gear and a few will items play off-tank. Oddly, the warden (who did of course have 2 FA LIs, even if he didn't have a clue as to which relics to put on them) kept dying.

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At least people can't faceroll OD fear wing t2c anymore, because most people now lack the required phys/tact mit that they previously got for free with vitality. Was fun to watch yesterday; a raid leader had a warden with half-yellow gear and a few will items play off-tank. Oddly, the warden (who did of course have 2 FA LIs, even if he didn't have a clue as to which relics to put on them) kept dying.

 

And this another thing I don't quite understand. With the revision to Mitigations my hunter has gone back to roughly what he was pre-U12 with appropriate Virtues slotted. The only thing that is different is that he has a much larger morale pool due to the poor itemization. So what were these people doing before? Mitigations did matter, at least in instances. I'd argue they were not so important for landscape. That still appears to be the way.

 

For me anyway, with decent but not the best gear, loading up my Mits for T2 or T2c, always involved making sacrifices elsewhere - usually to my DPS. That's why I've always kept sarchol.

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Maybe the folks at turbine missed the video of the level 95 warden completing a level 95 t3 skraid in his underwear with a frying pan? 

 

T1, not T3.

But T3 should be possible until boss with a frying pan, but it would take hours to kill LTs (~500K in T3)

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And this another thing I don't quite understand. With the revision to Mitigations my hunter has gone back to roughly what he was pre-U12 with appropriate Virtues slotted. The only thing that is different is that he has a much larger morale pool due to the poor itemization. So what were these people doing before? Mitigations did matter, at least in instances. I'd argue they were not so important for landscape. That still appears to be the way.

 

For me anyway, with decent but not the best gear, loading up my Mits for T2 or T2c, always involved making sacrifices elsewhere - usually to my DPS. That's why I've always kept sarchol.

Before, everyone knew not to invite them to t2c OD runs? :)

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T1, not T3.

But T3 should be possible until boss with a frying pan, but it would take hours to kill LTs (~500K in T3)

 

And that's really my first thoughts when I see people soloing skraids and instances. I'm more surprised people want to spend so much time on it rather than surprised that it is possible in the first place.

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And that's really my first thoughts when I see people soloing skraids and instances. I'm more surprised people want to spend so much time on it rather than surprised that it is possible in the first place.

 

But T1 are quick now (for example, after U10,  I needed ~2 hours for Necro T1,  and now it takes ~30 mn or less if you're lucky with LTs)

And there is nothing else to do at lvl cap to find a bit of challenge (although even T1 are not challenging since HD : with my Guardian, I can sometimes go afk with an easy LT + severals mobs on me, which is absurd for a 12-man content; I think a LT should kill any class without the help of a healer)

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With the exception of some specific examples in HD, on the whole it's not that far different. The mitigation changes when ROI rolled out had a far greater impact.

The key difference does seem to be that the player profile has changed since then, with the balance shifting towards those gamers weaned on the easy play of RoR and HD.

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But T1 are quick now (for example, after U10,  I needed ~2 hours for Necro T1,  and now it takes ~30 mn or less if you're lucky with LTs)

And there is nothing else to do at lvl cap to find a bit of challenge (although even T1 are not challenging since HD : with my Guardian, I can sometimes go afk with an easy LT + severals mobs on me, which is absurd for a 12-man content; I think a LT should kill any class without the help of a healer)

 

... which is why I'm playing other games instead of LotrO :P

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More challenging? Definitely not.

 

More GRINDY? Most definitely. For example, to get a recipe in the new area costs 100 "leaves", and is only a single use recipe. Additionally, there are only a few quests, most repeatable, and you get two, maybe three leaves per quest, so you'd have to do the same quests several times over to even get something basic.

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Weird, Erebor raids seem a lot more difficult, at least at low levels.

I regularly test all raids/skraids to see which ones are soloable, since U9.

 

After HD (U12),  Flight to Lonely Mountain T2 was not soloable at lvl cap,  but I could do it around 60 with my Champ.

I just tested it with my Guardian at 60, impossible.

I decreased progressively the level...  and I received some 10K hits (by archers)... even at lvl 20 !

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Archers do damage a % of your max health. Were you on an actual L20 when you did the instance?

 

If not you basically need enough numbers and speed to zerg them all before they shoot at you.

 

I tried it with my 95 Guardian.

After HD, I could do Flight T2 at 60-65 with my 95 Champ

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Just a quick test (first room of School) with my Guardian in Blue showing how the game is "more difficult" with U13 changes.
1 boss + 39 mobs, unbuffed, seriously...
The only way to be killed is to be stunned several times in a row, otherwise, with the heal on block, this class could pull an infinite number of mobs
And I'm a noob Guardian, I recently levelled up to 95 (actually average geared, not all stat tomes, no gold jewels/gear, no BB bonuses, ..)

 

http://youtu.be/R-Y71My-T8k

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My only conclusion to fix runs like that is that tanks should not be able to heal themselves - possibly with very few exceptions like Warriors Heart, Conviction and Rallying Cry.

Turbine simply can't figure out to have tanks heal themselves without making them overpowered in some group content (and sometimes even making them too weak for raid content as the same time). That's why the Warden has been considered "a fellowship" ever since it was made and why Guardians and Captains are in the same position now.

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Just a quick test (first room of School) with my Guardian in Blue showing how the game is "more difficult" with U13 changes.

1 boss + 39 mobs, unbuffed, seriously...

The only way to be killed is to be stunned several times in a row, otherwise, with the heal on block, this class could pull an infinite number of mobs

And I'm a noob Guardian, I recently levelled up to 95 (actually average geared, not all stat tomes, no gold jewels/gear, no BB bonuses, ..)

 

http://youtu.be/R-Y71My-T8k

 

Hah ha, awesome! I must try that, I love hordes of orcs and dishing AOE. I liked the pause before charging the last archer, just giving him time to think "ooer!"

My only conclusion to fix runs like that is that tanks should not be able to heal themselves - possibly with very few exceptions like Warriors Heart, Conviction and Rallying Cry.

Turbine simply can't figure out to have tanks heal themselves without making them overpowered in some group content (and sometimes even making them too weak for raid content as the same time). That's why the Warden has been considered "a fellowship" ever since it was made and why Guardians and Captains are in the same position now.

Good point.

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The balance between classes is totally off. Every class should need some healing skills for solo-play.

 

Since the most recent updates I finally need to use morale pots on my champ again (still no wound pots etc) if I pull multiple mobs when I'm not on a warsteed. That was during Helms Deep pre-u13 never necessary. But I'm not invincible anymore ;)

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The balance between classes is totally off. Every class should need some healing skills for solo-play.

 

Since the most recent updates I finally need to use morale pots on my champ again (still no wound pots etc) if I pull multiple mobs when I'm not on a warsteed. That was during Helms Deep pre-u13 never necessary. But I'm not invincible anymore ;)

 

My Champ is as OP as my Guardian, but self-healing is different.

In Yellow/Red (for 3-mans), Champs can be healed on kills, so you must keep enough DPS to kill mobs quickly (and be healed) and you can pull 30+ mobs too

And I use Fight-On legacy to get a constant healing for a long time (for bosses mainly) + Champion Tank bonus from BB jewels

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I've been trying to solo the school on my RK. I'm fine up to the 3 that guard the door to the final room, the best I have managed is to kill two out of the three but there are too many stuns for my light armour RK to cope with in that fight. Anyone got any tips? I think it should be possible with some luck. I've been doing it with a lightning spec to avoid inductions but wonder if fire may be better.

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I've been trying to solo the school on my RK. I'm fine up to the 3 that guard the door to the final room, the best I have managed is to kill two out of the three but there are too many stuns for my light armour RK to cope with in that fight. Anyone got any tips? I think it should be possible with some luck. I've been doing it with a lightning spec to avoid inductions but wonder if fire may be better.

Creep stun pots dropped in DoF still usable by freeps?

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After having tested "God Mode" in Guardian Blue line, I tried some instances in Red like Sambrog Challenge, and it seems even easier than before U13...
It could be soloed by Guardians, Captains or Champs (and maybe Wardens ?) after HD, but they lost more morale at boss fight.
I don't understand what Turbine does with this game, more and more broken update after update.

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  • 4 months later...

The balance between classes is totally off. Every class should need some healing skills for solo-play.

 

Since the most recent updates I finally need to use morale pots on my champ again (still no wound pots etc) if I pull multiple mobs when I'm not on a warsteed. That was during Helms Deep pre-u13 never necessary. But I'm not invincible anymore ;)

 

It is worse with T1 instances since U14.

Last foolish example : Library naked

It is the only way to find challenge with my Guardian in T1 3-man instances (and some people still say on OF that they are not easy for everyone...)

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