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Spiteful
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Interesting reply by Rowan in response to

 

If you take a look at the LOTR Appendix you will find a reference to Ellesar going to war with the Haradhrim at the start of the Fourth Age - perhaps this could be a direction?

 

Rowan says:

 

This sounds pretty reasonable.

 

 

 

I would have thought Minas Morgul would be part of the Mordor content.

 

Scouring would be done either in instanced versions similar to Helms Deep or different versions depending on where you enter from like Isengard I suppose.

 

It'll be interesting to see how or if this develops.

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I would have thought Minas Morgul would be part of the Mordor content.

 

Perhaps it is an indication to lower our expectations regarding the size and grandeur of the Mordor landmass to be featured. Along the same line as "Minas Tirith being smaller and less impressive than most LotR fans think." In a recent hobbit run transcript, Rowan went to quite a length in fixating upon that Minas Tirith image re-adjustment. Talking about the movies making it seem larger than life when in fact it amounts to little more than a humble outpost.

 

I personally call bullshit on that. Transparently there are simply not enough resources to give Minas Tirith its due splendor and glory, or to make it a major cultural landmark worthy of hours of exploration akin to any Moria sub-zones. I used to look forward to experiencing the White City as the heart and lifeblood of the Gondor expansion - naive on my part of course. So hearing all that "expectation reductionism" being sold to players as "book-accurate representation" rather than openly admitting the role of circumstances in shaping its development does grate.

 

Before we know it, we will be hearing that Mordor too is actually smaller and less epic than we think.

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That goes for everything. Bree is smaller and less impressive than the principal town of a region ought to be, and you seem to be able to walk from there to Rivendell in about a quarter of an hour too. That kind of thing is necessary compromise for portrayal in a game.

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Minas Tirith isn't really that huge.

 

7 walls at 100' high plus a 300' tower put it at 1000' or about as tall as the Eiffle Tower or 200' shorter than the Empire State Building.

 

Most estimates put the lower ring at about 3/4 of a mile (480 acres), or 1500 avg steps walking or a bit bigger than half the size of Central park in New York.

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I think Rowan is just creating false hope here so people continue to believe this ship isn't sinking.

 

There's no expansion coming in this year nor was one announced in the near future. So just because the hedge maze has a new map this year doesn't mean that turbine is working on making this game better.

 

 

 

Minas Tirith isn't really that huge.

 

7 walls at 100' high plus a 300' tower put it at 1000' or about as tall as the Eiffle Tower or 200' shorter than the Empire State Building.

 

7 walls probably also means 7 different factions your character need to be kindred with in order to further advance the questline ..

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I think Rowan is just creating false hope here so people continue to believe this ship isn't sinking.

 

There's no expansion coming in this year nor was one announced in the near future. So just because the hedge maze has a new map this year doesn't mean that turbine is working on making this game better.

 

 

 

 

7 walls probably also means 7 different factions your character need to be kindred with in order to further advance the questline ..

 

It's possible he is but there is no track record of him doing so. Under his watch we have:

 

1) been given a definitive if not popular answer about the housing update which was promised before he took over

2) gotten a store exclusive perk (mail) added to VIP benefits.

3) had a flow of information and answers that we never had under Paiz.

4) U13 had everything Rowan said would be there, plus a bit more, there was talk that the zone updates would be stretched out to make Updates.

 

He's generally pretty clear about what is happening and what they would like to see happen. It's just a statement about the long term future and what they've discussed, it isn't like he said "this is what we're going to do."

 

Oh lord, 7 factions.... I doubt it, but then again it wouldn't shock me :(

 

later in the thread a couple of Rowans posta about pvp:

 

Latest discussions for PvMP have centered around Osgiliath. It's too far out to make predictions.

 

and

 

 
 
 
if people are counting chickens maybe they should invest in a reading class, lol
 
All, some or none may come to pass, but I do like that the discussions are going on and that he isn't promising the moon, but he would like to get there.
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It's possible he is but there is no track record of him doing so. Under his watch we have:

 

1) been given a definitive if not popular answer about the housing update which was promised before he took over

2) gotten a store exclusive perk (mail) added to VIP benefits.

3) had a flow of information and answers that we never had under Paiz.

4) U13 had everything Rowan said would be there, plus a bit more, there was talk that the zone updates would be stretched out to make Updates.

 

He's generally pretty clear about what is happening and what they would like to see happen. It's just a statement about the long term future and what they've discussed, it isn't like he said "this is what we're going to do."

 

Oh lord, 7 factions.... I doubt it, but then again it wouldn't shock me :(

 

later in the thread a couple of Rowans posta about pvp:

 

Latest discussions for PvMP have centered around Osgiliath. It's too far out to make predictions.

 

and

 

 
 
 
if people are counting chickens maybe they should invest in a reading class, lol
 
All, some or none may come to pass, but I do like that the discussions are going on and that he isn't promising the moon, but he would like to get there.

 

Aaron is not the problem, it's his disappearing budget.

I like Aaron.  So far he has been nothing but upfront.   He's given players a roadmap into 2015.  When was the last time a Lotro Producer has done that?  He isn't stringing people along with promises or holding back disappontments.  If you raid in Lotro it should be very loud and clear none of that is coming anytime soon if ever again.  If you were waiting for housing changes no longer will you be strung along with promises of revamps.   The shit ain't coming. 

 

And as everyone knows I think Lotro is just a sinking ship, but all Aaron can do is make the best of that.   He can't force WB to give him money to invest in the game and give them staff!

 

Long story Short

Aaron Campbell isn't superman, but he ain't Kate Paiz.   He should neither be praised or boo'ed as he is simply doing his job.  AKA what he is paid to do. 

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Aaron is not the problem, it's his disappearing budget.

I like Aaron.  So far he has been nothing but upfront.   He's given players a roadmap into 2015.  When was the last time a Lotro Producer has done that?  He isn't stringing people along with promises or holding back disappontments.  If you raid in Lotro it should be very loud and clear none of that is coming anytime soon if ever again.  If you were waiting for housing changes no longer will you be strung along with promises of revamps.   The shit ain't coming. 

 

And as everyone knows I think Lotro is just a sinking ship, but all Aaron can do is make the best of that.   He can't force WB to give him money to invest in the game and give them staff!

 

Long story Short

Aaron Campbell isn't superman, but he ain't Kate Paiz.   He should neither be praised or boo'ed as he is simply doing his job.  AKA what he is paid to do. 

 

I agree with a lot of that Quinn.

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I think Rowan is just creating false hope here so people continue to believe this ship isn't sinking.

 

This. Turbine has done this a million times, put out something to create a false hope and then not deliver on it. 

 

Oh, and, I am building a spaceship in my yard that will work. There, I said it, so it must be true.

All, some or none may come to pass, but I do like that the discussions are going on and that he isn't promising the moon, but he would like to get there.

 

Maybe, but it seems to me he is promising that Lotro will even get to Mordor - something I can see him doing even if they knew this was doubtful. He is implying that they will keep developing long enough to get to Mordor and past it. Good PR - may have nothing to do with reality.

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I really don't doubt that LotRO will make it to Mordor. Not the way perhaps that people thought, via xpacs, but I really don't see a reason they won't.

 

My wife and I have talked about going on a cruise once the last kidlet is gone. We've tossed around Alaska for the Northern Lights and Tropics. If someone reads into that it's a promise that we'll both live that long, or that if we do, we'll actually go on a cruise, and if we do it will be to one of those destinations, that's on them for reading way to much into, " We've talked about..."

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While I backed up your earlier statement Spite, this one I can't see the light on.

With every update more and more people become disenfranchised with the game.

I'm not just talking about steam graphs here but actual payers/players.  I've visited the game recently on a few different servers and I can't say the population isn't teaming with players.   Let's focus on reaching Minas Tirith and the FOP battles first. 

If the last update was any indication of how many will return for updates, the game has severe problems.  Even with a free update I saw less players. 

 

The major flaws in the game are now known to a much broader audience. 

No just difficulty balancing, but lack of care in storytelling and questflow.  Players are now also treated to the bugs in EB's much like the ones raiders dealt with in Draig.  Players of all likes got to see the random loot system that group encountered last xpac.  Really it is becoming so pronounced that even PC members and Turbine defenders are speaking up about it. 

 

The game needs income to continue on.   My prediction is by the end of this year/beginning of next we will know more accurately what the game's fate will be.  If  had to look into the Quinn's crystal ball the outlook ain't good.  I expect by the end of this year many more will see the light and realize they are being strung along with minimal content.  And honestly many of the RP players are pissed about the housing revamp cancellation.  PVP players will be getting catapults.......whooptie doo.

 

Turbine could do somethings this year to maybe make some new players try it.  This begins with making their rent content totally free.  What is the problem with making levels 30-50 free?  They could then sell the first 4 xpacs at 10$.  And bring the price of HD to 9.99$.   Or offer it all for free and keep things like the gold cap and storage gating behind pay walls.  But they won't.  There are zero signs they will do this even now when the game is desperate for players.

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I guess people see it in different ways.

 

Since HD I've seen a whole lot of jibberjabber, an abandonment of something promised in two producers letters, a tiny slice of content, a passable conclusion to the longest book ever, a truly ridiculous reputation grind, some fluff RNG pets, a few QoL additions we've been told for years were "technically impossible", and a whole lot of flailing and flip flopping with game balance which is still hopelessly broken. 

 

In other words, not a lot. Update 14 has a lot to live up to...

 

YMMV

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Are you implying you have actual paying customers wanting to participate in your lifestyle as an advertised product?

 

Exactly.

 

While I backed up your earlier statement Spite, this one I can't see the light on.

With every update more and more people become disenfranchised with the game.

I'm not just talking about steam graphs here but actual payers/players.  I've visited the game recently on a few different servers and I can't say the population isn't teaming with players.   Let's focus on reaching Minas Tirith and the FOP battles first. 

If the last update was any indication of how many will return for updates, the game has severe problems.  Even with a free update I saw less players. 

 

The major flaws in the game are now known to a much broader audience. 

No just difficulty balancing, but lack of care in storytelling and questflow.  Players are now also treated to the bugs in EB's much like the ones raiders dealt with in Draig.  Players of all likes got to see the random loot system that group encountered last xpac.  Really it is becoming so pronounced that even PC members and Turbine defenders are speaking up about it. 

 

The game needs income to continue on.   My prediction is by the end of this year/beginning of next we will know more accurately what the game's fate will be.  If  had to look into the Quinn's crystal ball the outlook ain't good.  I expect by the end of this year many more will see the light and realize they are being strung along with minimal content.  And honestly many of the RP players are pissed about the housing revamp cancellation.  PVP players will be getting catapults.......whooptie doo.

 

Turbine could do somethings this year to maybe make some new players try it.  This begins with making their rent content totally free.  What is the problem with making levels 30-50 free?  They could then sell the first 4 xpacs at 10$.  And bring the price of HD to 9.99$.   Or offer it all for free and keep things like the gold cap and storage gating behind pay walls.  But they won't.  There are zero signs they will do this even now when the game is desperate for players.

 

I'm not sure they want to expand the player base, or more accurately they know they can't expand the player base. The engine is to old to compete with newer games, the content of the IP is drawing to a close, and actual landscape is rapidly running out on the LotR map.

 

There is nothing they can do about any of that short of an entire overhaul and relaunch, and I'm pretty certain that isn't in the cards.

 

I do think they plan for the population to stabilize at some point, and with the game "finished" and in full blown maintenance mode, merge servers, and let the licence make money.

 

It's just conjecture, only time will tell.

 

One does not simply milk to Mordor.

 

But I have QuiK, so we have chocolate milk surely they will let us in.

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I'm not sure they want to expand the player base, or more accurately they know they can't expand the player base. The engine is to old to compete with newer games, the content of the IP is drawing to a close, and actual landscape is rapidly running out on the LotR map.

There is nothing they can do about any of that short of an entire overhaul and relaunch, and I'm pretty certain that isn't in the cards.

I do think they plan for the population to stabilize at some point, and with the game "finished" and in full blown maintenance mode, merge servers, and let the licence make money.

I think this is a fair comment, we know there is a drop in log in numbers from the various stats collected, but on Snowbourn at least, peak times have seen around 200-230 in GLFF consistently for some time (no where near at its peak of course). The core player base is still there, probably casual PvEers and some PvPers. It may well be that Turbine is confident of keeping that core even if they lose everyone else, and it may well be that this is enough to keep Lotro running up to Mordor. Even with only low budget updates and a smaller community I agree with Spiteful that I think they will eventually get to Mordor.

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...

I'm not sure they want to expand the player base, or more accurately they know they can't expand the player base. The engine is to old to compete with newer games, the content of the IP is drawing to a close, and actual landscape is rapidly running out on the LotR map.

 

There is nothing they can do about any of that short of an entire overhaul and relaunch, and I'm pretty certain that isn't in the cards.

 

I do think they plan for the population to stabilize at some point, and with the game "finished" and in full blown maintenance mode, merge servers, and let the licence make money.

 

It's just conjecture, only time will tell.

...

 

That's how I see it going. Without new LOTR films coming out there's unlikely to be a surge in Tolkien interest. LOTRO is seven years old and has been neglected for two or three, so there's no reason in the game why a lot of new players should appear. At the same time, there aren't really any big costs involved in getting it as far as Mordor, and that was always thought to be the aim among many players. I'd see us getting there in the next 1-3 years, but probably without anything really exciting like new raids or housing updates. I'm less sure about reaching "minority-interest" areas like the Grey Havens, other parts of Mirkwood, Rhun or Harad, the Lonely Mountain. The Scouring of the Shire in playable form would be a nice bonus.

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I think the Tolkien franchise, now in the hands of one company (unless the lawsuit frees some parts, which is even more unlikely than simply more money changing hands even assuming the forces of light win), will go the way of the Star Trek franchise. Do nothing for many years until the time is ripe for a "modern relaunch".

Hold the rights so that nobody else can fill the avoid and reduce the tension. It is pocket money and it is worth it to exclude competitors from offering anything Lotr.

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We may get to Mordor, but we will get pretty pitiful version of Gondor and Mordor. Maybe a few fade to black screens because they're not willing to spend money and do justice to any of these zones. So you will get a game with some great early zones, and weaker later zones with a reused horse statue on every roof.

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To be honest, landscape design is one thing that doesn't worry me. I think Rohan is excellent visually, and flooded Isengard has been really well portrayed too. If a "fade to black" screen is the worst problem I notice, I'll be fairly happy. Content, lore, battles; those have all been annoying, but the landscape itself is good. I hope Gondor etc. will be up to that standard.

 

I'm conflicted about Derndingle. As a portrayal of a part of Fangorn including Treebeard's home, I think it's great. But lore-wise, I can't really accept being there. Especially when followed around by a huorn which, amazingly, doesn't kill me on sight as an "axe bearer"! So I haven't played it much.

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