Jump to content
LOTROCommunity

When Lotro players dare to speak the truth ...


nosam9
 Share

Recommended Posts

Trancejeremy:

 

 

Fucking troll.

 

...Excuse my language but he really bothers me >.<

Trancejeremy is the new LOTRO. They are developing for him now, and if you aren't him, you have no place there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This post by Dinarian wins that thread:

So to be clear then just so there is no confusion

To sum up Sapience, please let me know if I am wrong or correct

Nobody has to tell us anything and it is highly unlikely they will. It is awesome that they changed the class so drastically without bullroarer notes, a dev diary, or a heads up in any fashion, and if we don't like it and dare to ask questions, we should understand that our questions will not be answered, and that expecting a heads up in any fashion or anything resembling an explanation is out of line and completely inappropriate of us to expect. Long story short if we don't like what they did we can all collectively go take a long walk off a short pier.

Am I right or did I miss something?

 

SNy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So to be clear then just so there is no confusion

To sum up Sapience, please let me know if I am wrong or correct

Nobody has to tell us anything and it is highly unlikely they will. It is awesome that they changed the class so drastically without bullroarer notes, a dev diary, or a heads up in any fashion, and if we don't like it and dare to ask questions, we should understand that our questions will not be answered, and that expecting a heads up in any fashion or anything resembling an explanation is out of line and completely inappropriate of us to expect. Long story short if we don't like what they did we can all collectively go take a long walk off a short pier.

Am I right or did I miss something?

 

My edited reply

Seems pretty accurate to me. Releasing major class changes without documentation, player testing or discussion is not how other classes have been treated. I too am angry about this approach and feel very let down as a paying customer. Much as a discussion with the dev would nice it is evident this developer does not discuss the class with us mere players and certainly doesn't take feedback, no matter how politely expressed as anything worth considering. The discussions bare no resemblance to those hunter forums discussions which ended in silence, partly because the developer hasn't set foot in our forums since November to even be on the receiving end of any poorly worded frustration and i don't recall any trolling of the dev at all... I strongly object to the characterizing of our class forum as a scary place full of trolls. Even in HD beta, those few who were rude were curtailed by fellow players and regular posters in these threads. The minstrel suggestion threads have been uniformly polite. No one has called out the dev.

Sapience advised us earlier in the year in a hobbit to Isengard run, that we should ask class specific questions in the class thread but the dev has no obligation to respond. (Frickinmuck, someone certainly not known for being a whinging minstrel or anti turbine troll type person called this a catch 22 for minstrels at the time and has done so again.) However Sapience also assured players that devs do read class threads. And he has done so again. That assurance does not fit with my perception of random class changes made by this developer. There seems no congruence between the suggestions made over the last year and the changes actually made.

edit:Sapience could you ask the developer the following and convey her reply to us:

Why are our class changes and our developer's work (even our developer?) the only exceptions to the standard quality processes and communication systems that apply to everything else in the game?

Why were the changes not released on Bullroarer to be tested? We even asked directly about our class in this thread in beta-https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...el-Patch-Notes

Most importantly,

Why were those particular changes made, when there was consensus on the fundamental problems with the class that have never been addressed, especially the broken skills:

for those who came in late,  these were amongst others:

the aoe/procs on B OUR C in fellowship in PvE needing nerfing, (but not the self heals.)

rally! being needed in yellow, and yellow being a true buffing line. Fixing call to greatness so it actually does buff other classes. (Not yet another nerf to the weakest of our trees.)

song of aid needing fixing for our class buffs and the deed (in 14, it still isn't fixed for all classes except hunters, and still opens non existant/removed war speech skills, as it has done since August 2013).

If these particular changes had been done as slyly and without notes there would be less frustration.

But to break standard procedures to make last minute, untested, changes that are largely unwanted (again) and NOT FIX the broken stuff that we all want fixed, is just mind boggling.

edit: BTW: we have tried this polite approach before, requesting a locked thread with some information in it, many, many times. Each time we were ignored, but good luck anyway with the scones and tea incentive. I'll even bring the home-made jam and double cream if we hear anything other than silence. smile.png

 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few years ago, in response to a question about Turbine's seemingly irrational decisions, someone theorized that WB was using LOTRO as a loss-leader to test various money-making schemes on a group of players. This theory was pooh-poohed.

 

But I can't stop thinking about this theory when I see something like this minstrel situation. The class got a bunch of severe unannounced nerfs, and the community manager is apparently trolling the unhappy players, as though he were actively goading them into acting out. It smells like a marketing experiment, especially since only one class was apparently singled out for such treatment.

 

Other recent decisions that fit into the loss-leader hypothesis: cosmetic pet grinds, creating new systems and abandoning subsequent development on those systems, announcing Beornings starting at level 50 and changing their minds, and catapults in PvMP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trancejeremy:

 

 

Fucking troll.

 

...Excuse my language but he really bothers me >.<

The dude is never going to make level cap........EVER!   If he started on a trip London to LA when he began playing Lotro 7 years ago he'd still be in New York. 

 

He really can't understand as he is just finishing ROI, a polished xpac.  If he had his way no one would reach cap ever.   Which is why he should never comment on endgame.  But he simply can not help himself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And apparently there aren't enough quest to level to 100 despite developer assurances there were on a live stream.

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?552430-How-did-YOU-hit-level-100&p=7202276#post72022768

Someone at

Turbine needs to tell those guys in the dev chat to maybe make less jokes about paying you r to level 100?

 

user-offline.png Member

Devs actually said buy more xp boosters?

In response to:

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by TheNightAngel viewpost-right.png
That's funny. This issue was reported in beta 3 (by me and a few others). On a live stream the devs said more quest were added so don't worry. Or just buy xp boosters. What type of solution is that?

Today, 07:37 PM #8
user-online.png Member
 
Join Date May 2008 Location USA Posts 312
http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream/b/546007346

35:12 the issue was brought up and the devs responded.

 

Sounds like you needed the XP booster on the entire way from 95 to 100.  Some people are unable to reach level 99.  How do they screw this up.....oh yeah

Tuirbine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trancejeremy:

Fucking troll.

...Excuse my language but he really bothers me >.<

I don't normally go around quoting people from the OF but this trancejeremy guy...

So in a thread about there not being enough quests in Gondor to take you to level 100 he decided to excuse it and also to use that as justification for not raising the level cap to 105 later.

I'm so confused by his post, I find it difficult to comprehend the person that pays for a product (because "free to vip" isn't free) and then when it fails to provide the promised content (level to 100 in Western Gondor) claims that this is a good thing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe having handout levels is as bad of an idea as handout gear. You've been here long enough to know that if there aren't enough quests today that in a short while there will be. It's Tuesday evening, barely 24 hours past the release, and you can't get to 100 yet. Sorry, no sympathy.

 

There is content. Do skirms or instanced content. Not everything needs hand holding along the way does it, and so immediately? If you haven't made it from level 98.x to 100 in a few weeks of doing instance content and fighting overland mobs, then you'll have more sympathy from me. Right now, I just can't support the complaint, at all.

 

So many times people complained that there is no reason for them to do any group content and now when they are just a bit encouraged to use other ways to get to cap, they get upset. It cannot even be that hard anyway, plenty of people on my server were 100 not even a full day after update. So what instance grind do you guys speak about? And where do you hurry anyway? Why so much impatience and care for numbers? I don't consider this to be lazyness from Turbine. If they wanted to do adjust XP for quests, why wouldn't they? I rather see it as a move.

It's somewhat hilarious to watch people get grumpy after the first day of update.

 

How are people defending Turbine here? How is a lack of new quest a GOOD thing? What the hell is wrong with people?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone at

Turbine needs to tell those guys in the dev chat to maybe make less jokes about paying you r to level 100?

 

user-offline.png Member

Devs actually said buy more xp boosters?

In response to:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by
TheNightAngel
viewpost-right.png
That's funny. This issue was reported in beta 3 (by me and a few others). On a live stream the devs said more quest were added so don't worry. Or just buy xp boosters. What type of solution is that?

Today, 07:37 PM #8
user-online.png Member
 
Join Date May 2008 Location USA Posts 312

35:12 the issue was brought up and the devs responded.

 

Sounds like you needed the XP booster on the entire way from 95 to 100.  Some people are unable to reach level 99.  How do they screw this up.....oh yeah

Tuirbine!

 

Yeah, the "buy an xp boost" really pissed me off... At least they're becoming more blatant about what's driving them (the store).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some players believe the store is a feature of the game.

The reality is that the game is a feature of the store.

 

Do you want to give your money to company whose product is a store with a game attached or do you want to go find yourself a real game developer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lilka:

Free players are always going to be at heavy disadvantage. They always have been. The game is practically a trailer without paying. Like one of those demos you used to get attached to PC magazines. A taster session.

 

Free players - don't complain. This is still a pay-to-play game. If you're not prepared to pay for it, don't expect it to be much fun. I don't at all agree that the xp curves should be adjusted to make anything easier for free players.

 

What an ass hat.

 

These two are in response to him/her

 

How are "free players" not allowed to complain? They still have to shell out real money for this content. They've paid to access it. So they should have the right to complain too. The actual number of real free players is extremely low. And it's not just "free players" complaining, but VIP too. There's not enough quest to take you from 95-100 in this update without buying into perks. When it comes down to it, that's bad game design.

 

Oh, and I'm VIP so what I'm saying is being weighted by the fact that I've paid Turbine a lot of money over the years and it's not just "making it easier for free players"

 

Hmm. Just for theoretical reasons - what would you say to free players that bought this area with bought TP?


Some players believe the store is a feature of the game.

The reality is that the game is a feature of the store.

 

Do you want to give your money to company whose product is a store with a game attached or do you want to go find yourself a real game developer?

 

And it seems as if some players are in favor of the game being a feature of the store.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And it seems as if some players are in favor of the game being a feature of the store.

 

It would be nice if Turbine would just admit they're nothing but a bunch of credit card hustling con-men dressed up as game developers and fully embrace the path they've chosen.   For example, sell 'Kill Player X' tokens in the store for $5.00 each.  You simply double click on the token, enter the name of a player, and if that player is in the Ettenmoors he'll automatically die.  You use these tokens while standing in the safety of Bree.

 

According to Fernand'oh, some players will complain but they'll still keep playing.

 

Wife: Honey, why did you charge up $800.00 on your credit card this month?

Husband: I was doing some heavy PvP in LOTRO.  I got an entire tribe to rage quit.  LOLZ.

Wife: Will these be re-occurring charges?

Husband: Yes, I set up an auto-kill payment plan.  I don't even have to log into the game anymore to kill Wargs!

 

I wish I was rich enough to buy out Turbine.

I'd pay each of the developers whatever amount it would take for them to never work in game development again.

It would cost a great deal since they obviously go through quite a bit of cocaine, but it would be worth it.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And it seems as if some players are in favor of the game being a feature of the store.

 

And it seems that turbines tactic pays off ...

 

Its possible to get to level 100 with quests, but only if you complete those of Tarlang's Crown (completing the deed by doing 2 days worth of repeatables). Its irritating, and I chose to use xp tomes rather than wait to find a group to do so, but there are technically enough quests accessible in West Gondor to reach level 100 without tomes.

 

Grind for two days or use xp tomes if you want to get to lvl 100.

 

Now you could argue that xp tomes can be aquired via hobbit presents, but seriously: this is just a blatant money grab. What's next? Will you have to grind for xp now despite buying questpacks/expansions with real money?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, and I just want to throw out there that Turbine's devs lied about adding new quest since beta 3. There's not been 1 additional quest added since then (at least to the leveling process, there may be more Dol Amroth dailies that I haven't seen yet. But that doesn't exactly help since those are gated to being level 100...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love how those who happened to finish the content quickly because they were having fun are getting chided by others for rushing it.. whilst completely ignoring the fact that it doesn't matter how fast or slow you do said content, there's not enough xp to level to 100.  Dat logic!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love how those who happened to finish the content quickly because they were having fun are getting chided by others for rushing it.. whilst completely ignoring the fact that it doesn't matter how fast or slow you do said content, there's not enough xp to level to 100.  Dat logic!!

 

That, and people think that grinding 5 year old content is an acceptable way to hit a new level cap. It boggles the mind how some people are acting in that thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be nice if Turbine would just admit they're nothing but a bunch of credit card hustling con-men dressed up as game developers and fully embrace the path they've chosen.   For example, sell 'Kill Player X' tokens in the store for $5.00 each.  You simply double click on the token, enter the name of a player, and if that player is in the Ettenmoors he'll automatically die.  You use these tokens while standing in the safety of Bree.

I once proposed a store item ("Air Freshener") that would block the user's client from rendering all fat, stinky Dorfs.

Could have been a HUGE money-maker for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet another who doesn't think the lack of quest is an issue:

 

Go slower. It is much more efficient.

Update 14 released late Monday, It is now late Wednesday and people are complaining that there isn't enough xp to reach cap.

Perhaps it is easier for me, as an inveterate altoholic, I suppose someone with only one high level character WILL have to resort to skirmishes, big battles, xp booster 'crutches'

to get across the gap.

 

My own plan is simple. As soon as an alt runs out of blue bar ( about one third of a level ) that is that alt done for the day. Move onto another one.

 

yes, it'll take me weeks to hit 100. But I doubt I will be short of xp.

 

I really need to stop reading that thread. I need an intervention!

 

I actually got into a small argument with a kin mate about lack of content last night. She was a member of last year's player council. After about 2 minutes she was saying she agreed with me. So having rational arguments can get you somewhere :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet another who doesn't think the lack of quest is an issue:

 

 

I really need to stop reading that thread. I need an intervention!

 

I actually got into a small argument with a kin mate about lack of content last night. She was a member of last year's player council. After about 2 minutes she was saying she agreed with me. So having rational arguments can get you somewhere :P

It sounds like you just need people to agree with you.  The O board isn't going to provide that anytimes soon. 

No matter how you argue with some people (constructive or not) they will not see the logic in your post.

 

This whole thing with there not being enough xp from the quests to reach cap is unacceptable from any developer.  If all they are offering is a quest pack it should be done correctly FFS.

 

During ROR on my Burg I managed to skip all but 2 of the mounted combat quests.  My steed was a level 1 at cap lol.  Burg MC was terrible.  So instead of dying 10 times an instance I avoided it.  Even then I only feel 6 skirms short of cap. 

 

Trust me the people responding to your pleas to add quest or fix the XP output are complete tools.  XP boosters because Turbine was too lazy to make sure the content was sufficient is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. 

 

We didn't test our product properly so now buy XP boosters to fix our error? 

 

The people defending this logic have zero ground to stand on.  So if other players spent money on TP or use the content through VIP, they should suffer more costs to make the product work properly. 

 

The people arguing with you have no intention of making sure the product works properly and when it doesn't they make excuses.  Must be the only ones left that can bring themsleves to pay for the game.  I have enough TP to pay for this update and the next one and my interest level is zero.  Finding out they pulled another ROI with the leveling quests makes that interest level -10.   They got feedback in the beta and they did nothing.  Just one question.  Are the HD crafting icon still the ROR icon or did they finally fix those?  Lotro is now the bottom of the barrel for MMORPGs.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet another who doesn't think the lack of quest is an issue:

 

 

I really need to stop reading that thread. I need an intervention!

 

 

Far too many people over there will tell you that "if you have a problem, it's YOUR fault".  They are the ones that need an intervention, not you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds like you just need people to agree with you.  The O board isn't going to provide that anytimes soon. 

No matter how you argue with some people (constructive or not) they will not see the logic in your post.

 

This whole thing with there not being enough xp from the quests to reach cap is unacceptable from any developer.  If all they are offering is a quest pack it should be done correctly FFS.

 

During ROR on my Burg I managed to skip all but 2 of the mounted combat quests.  My steed was a level 1 at cap lol.  Burg MC was terrible.  So instead of dying 10 times an instance I avoided it.  Even then I only feel 6 skirms short of cap. 

 

Trust me the people responding to your pleas to add quest or fix the XP output are complete tools.  XP boosters because Turbine was too lazy to make sure the content was sufficient is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. 

 

We didn't test our product properly so now buy XP boosters to fix our error? 

 

The people defending this logic have zero ground to stand on.  So if other players spent money on TP or use the content through VIP, they should suffer more costs to make the product work properly. 

 

The people arguing with you have no intention of making sure the product works properly and when it doesn't they make excuses.  Must be the only ones left that can bring themsleves to pay for the game.  I have enough TP to pay for this update and the next one and my interest level is zero.  Finding out they pulled another ROI with the leveling quests makes that interest level -10.   They got feedback in the beta and they did nothing.  Just one question.  Are the HD crafting icon still the ROR icon or did they finally fix those?  Lotro is now the bottom of the barrel for MMORPGs.

 

It's just... I truly don't understand the other side here. Their argument is that you can still hit 100 using alternative means than just the new quest. That's not the argument. The argument is that having to do so is bad game design.

 

I don't need people to agree with me per se. I can be extremely argumentative and really press my point once I get going. What bothers me is people's inability to see things from any point of view but their own. They have no sympathy for other's when their style of gaming gets the finger from Turbine (or any game company, you see this a lot on Blizzard forums but at least there you're able to argue with them without getting banned). They don't even try to understand how the presented issue can be detrimental to someone's enjoyment and game play. 

 

And I'm sorry about having to deal with mounted combat on your burg :( One of my favorite characters used to be my burg. Now he's extremely hard to play. Mounted combat is not fun on him in any shape or form. The class changes completely obliterated his identity. At least my hunter plays almost the exact same. Almost.

 

I've enjoyed the questing in this update. However the fun I could have potentially had has been dampened by the fact that it wasn't enough to get me to cap honestly. This is 2014. What's Turbine's excuse? This isn't the Everquest era of gaming where it's acceptable to grind for levels. I remember having to grind from 74-75. It was insanely boring. It was made bearable by a friend joining me for the killing for the last half of it (guess what, he doesn't play anymore). 

 

I can't pull myself away from the game completely. There's too many good memories and I just haven't found an MMO that does it for me as an alternative. Guild Wars 2 has great concepts and stunning scenery, but I only had fun with it leveling my first character to 80. Now there's not a zerg in every zone so leveling alts loses its appeal and I'm not a fan of how they're handling their content updates and endgame. World of Warcraft... I would be playing it but I can't afford the monthly fee. Broke college kid thing going on :P

 

SW:TOR: I was super stocked for the game when it came out and I had a lot of fun playing it. However I don't find leveling alts entertaining enough to stick with it and their Rise of the Hutt Cartel mini expansion didn't have enough quest to hit cap doing the new planet. It was expected to grind the old level 50 dailies again before starting the new planet (was it Makeb?). 

 

Rift... I find it too bland to play. Both the graphics and the combat. TESO, is another sub based game - can't afford. And I found it really REALLY boring during beta. So that's not happening even if it goes free to play.

 

I'm getting my main gaming fix from Diablo 3. However, sometimes I crave the MMO feel and the type of gameplay you can only get from an MMO. Unfortunately I have no viable alternative to get this fix than LOTRO. The gaming market is a bleak scene for me right now. 

 

 

Far too many people over there will tell you that "if you have a problem, it's YOUR fault".  They are the ones that need an intervention, not you.

 

I meant that I need an intervention because I can't help but watch the train wreck as more and more closed minded individuals join in on the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are Lotro players that simply can not fathom things, and they really should not post.  How many times did Manstan tell us to stop our crying about a dead endgame?  A dude whose never been past level 58.   Simply ignore them.  Enjoy the sanity here on this site instead.    Turbine has made this mistake before and surprisingly they fixed it.   

 

We understand that the only way to reach the people that change the game is to use the O board.  Continue to do so.  Say what you want and then never appear in the thread again.  Don't argue with the Lotro Elite.  Besides in that thread the 5 people telling every one the game is fine look like morons.   They want you to respond to their idiocy.  It makes their day.  While your getting upset at the keyboard some dude on the other end is getting his kicks off.   These folks main goal is getting someone to flame and get banned or get the thread closed like it is some sick game.  The state of Lotro means nothing to these folks, it is the state of the forum they are concerned with.

 

It looks like you have tried some other games.  That is actually a good thing.  My release has been Rift.   The graphics aren't the best.  And the combat gets tiresome at times, but the game is still lively.  I also fell in love with the soul trees, but it took some time.  I too miss my Lotro fix, but supporting this failure only encourages more and more botched content.   Take some time away from all MMO's.   There are days I want to log into Lotro.  The days that I do are filled with dark moments.  My kin lists are filled with players who are over the 4 month mark in log in times. 

 

We all miss Lotro to some extent.   I know I miss all the people I spent good times with.  But it is over.  The only way to really try a new game is to just stop playing Lotro.  You will keep comparing the other games to it.  And that will be disappointing.   I found the more I played Rift and the less I played Lotro, the more my eyes opened. 

 

I used to lay WOW and Lotro gave me more of a community feel than WOW did.  But honestly I could have kept playing WOW and simply changed my outlook.  The developing studio builds the game.  The players build the community and it is what we make it.   When games reach the end of their life cycle is when the bickering starts.  I've played enough extinct games to know this.  Right now it is happening to Lotro.

 

Now get out there and enjoy some diablo 3 man.  And stop supporting failure (turbine)  (synonym)

 

Honestly you can't take people seriously when the expect you to play exactly how they do.   Which is equated to you finishing content before they do.  "Oh you're rushing to cap. You're a bad person"  These people are simply idiots.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No game development house would ever release a level-cap increase without having enough quests to actually level all the way up and then some, unless they did it on purpose. This is very clearly what Turbine intended. Players could go out and grind on deeds, just kill mobs, or run scaled content like Skirmishes to bridge the gap, but Turbine is clearly betting that some players will buy XP Boosters from the Store. Remember what Fernando said: "Players may complain, but they won't leave over it".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No game development house would ever release a level-cap increase without having enough quests to actually level all the way up and then some, unless they did it on purpose. This is very clearly what Turbine intended. Players could go out and grind on deeds, just kill mobs, or run scaled content like Skirmishes to bridge the gap, but Turbine is clearly betting that some players will buy XP Boosters from the Store. Remember what Fernando said: "Players may complain, but they won't leave over it".

I dunno, I'm not sure I'd doubt Turbine's ability to actually mess up like that. ^^ Hard call.. ineptitude or nefariousness... Could be either. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...