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so would you say it was dead if you were the only person on any server? or is it alive because 1 person can log on?

 

what I am getting at is that the term "dead" in this context is subjective, people describe certain places on earth like the Atacama desert as "dead" there is life there but compared to more populated and healthy regions such as coral reefs, it is dead, and that sums up lotro ,compare it to other games, or even compare it to pre HD and maybe even before that, and yes it is dead.

 

I think if you are lucky enough to be in an active and well-led kin that does runs together then yes the game will not seem dead to you. The problem is these kins are so few and far between now. Brrokk, you're incredibly lucky to be in a kin like that. If you're starting the game from scratch, good luck finding a kin like yours. It took me 2 and a half years to find a decent kin to do group content with and then Turbine stopped making new traditional group content and I wasn't willing to keep doing the same instances over and over and over for meaningless rewards.

 

I'm genuinely glad you're having fun still Brrokk and that your kin is healthy.

 

I can see why you'd want prospective players to see that LOTRO does still have a lot to offer to a new player. I think it does too, but as I've seen too many times to count, new players love the game up until they reach level cap, then they leave never to return out of boredom as they are sick of doing boring dailies. I also think prospective players also need to understand just what little content they will be getting for their money - Turbine give very little compared to other games.

 

 

Just doing a quick scan, there has been one positive thread about LOTRO on the past 2 pages. That is Brock's Annunimas thread.

I am also in no way defending Heatons OF, he is way too trigger happy, but this forum is extremely one sided. It is the place that people whi are mad go to rant.

 

Most of us here are disillusioned ex-players, so yes most threads will be negative. Many of us can't see anything positive to talk about any more. What do you suggest we talk positively about?

 

How great update 14 is with its reused art assets, rep grinds and swan pets? Or how about the new ghost bear? 

 

We're gamers, we want quality game play, not novelty pets that have no place being in a Middle-earth set game. Also no self-respecting Tolkien fan would agree with many of the cosmetic pets that are being added to LOTRO. 

 

The only positive feeling many of us have now towards LOTRO is memories.

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That's the beauty of this forum: the moderators aren't trying to 'make' us focus on anything. People are free to express themselves. Yes, many of us have negative feelings about the game, some of us a

Wrongful? No, no and no. Sometimes our words have unintended consequences, but those consequences happen regardless. This happens to us all. Instead of being all "woops, my bad, I didn't mean it like

Sorry, man, wrong forums.   This is not true "He was almost always rude ...". No one is going to believe this.

Well I object to people saying LOTRO is dead for the following reasons.

(1) The statement is demonstrably and measurably untrue.

(2) Repeatedly saying it might discourage prospective or infrequent players, making it self-fulfilling.

As far as (1) goes, all I can do is line up the evidence. That evidence can only be from my own experience. I don't mean to rub faces in it; it's just the only way I can demonstrate the truth. That "I want to believe" poster above rightly applies to those who are sticking to their belief ("LOTRO is dead") in defiance of the facts. They've had bad experiences in the OF or in-game, so they want it to be dead. Maybe I can get through that kind of blindness by continually referring to the true situation in-game, although I'm not optimistic.

For (2), all I can do is keep posting my actual experience in the hope that people who google LOTRO and come here see what I've written as well as all the "Oh woe it's dead" stuff.

Treading the "It doesn't matter if your kinship is dead, mine is fine so the game is fine" line isn't smart on this forum, even if you're doing it to illustrate a point... :P You made this mistake in a different thread that was entitled with "dying," and I think we can all agree that LotRO is, in various ways.

People saying the game is literally "dead" are obviously wrong, but considering how everyone here knows there are still some people playing LotRO (or there wouldn't be any discussion about LotRO/OF at all), surely you were smart enough to extrapolate from hyperbole and know merely you and a handful of kinnies logging on makes no difference in the grand scheme of things either.

I would personally discourage anyone with any experience in the MMORPG genre from trying LotRO, because it's just missing too much, and significant mechanics are broken. I would discourage someone from trying it out of curiosity of "F2P" because they can get so much better value from other MMORPGs with much less ugly in-your-face store UIs. I would discourage anyone from trying LotRO because of all the post-HD official announcements that abandoned both housing (fluff!) and formal group content (traditional MMO!) and instead adding upcoming cosmetic pets and whatnot---the only people I would recommend play LotRO are those who have never played another MMO, who prefer a single-player experience, and who are curious about Tolkien but are not lore purists (fanatic != purist).

Per your #2, think about that, will you? The "dying" adjective is far more accurate, and anyone who understands what MMORPG stands for in classical genre terms will want to try such a game for a social experience of sorts; a newbie who sees maybe one or two other people in 15 levels is going to get discouraged if that's what they're looking for, and your stressing "I'm doing fine" is useless in that case. You're going about this all wrong. You should be out there saying "We're on this server. This is our kinship. Come join us, we have over 20 people at peak times!" Ignore those who are pooping directly on your enjoyment, but your approach outlined in my first paragraph is definitely not the way to do it either.

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OK, just back from a kin OD run.

I'm sorry but...

And?

So?

Your kin isn't the single determining factor regarding the game's health.

Look, we've been through this before. You like to think that somehow you and your kin have done extraordinary things through management, event making and whatever.. which just isn't the case. You just happen to have a kin who seems to enjoy old content and repeating it. That's fine, whatever floats your boat. But just because you few might still be having fun doesn't mean the game is at all healthy.

As someone said, you're arguing the semantics of 'dead' and in a semi-trollish manner as well.

You're still enjoying the game. Great. The game doesn't feel dead to you. Great. These are your realities. But they are not many other people's realities.

There is zero blindness on my part. I was a semi-hardcore raider. After ToO, my gameplay style wasn't supported. Class revamps ruined a lot of stuff. There was little challenge left in the game. My kin and alliance died and fell apart. My friends list became empty. THAT is the true situation of the game for me. And frankly.. the login server information and the crap Turbine is now churning out supports my reality far more than it does yours.

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Well I object to people saying LOTRO is dead for the following reasons.

(1) The statement is demonstrably and measurably untrue.

(2) Repeatedly saying it might discourage prospective or infrequent players, making it self-fulfilling.

 

As far as (1) goes, all I can do is line up the evidence. That evidence can only be from my own experience. I don't mean to rub faces in it; it's just the only way I can demonstrate the truth. That "I want to believe" poster above rightly applies to those who are sticking to their belief ("LOTRO is dead") in defiance of the facts. They've had bad experiences in the OF or in-game, so they want it to be dead. Maybe I can get through that kind of blindness by continually referring to the true situation in-game, although I'm not optimistic.

 

For (2), all I can do is keep posting my actual experience in the hope that people who google LOTRO and come here see what I've written as well as all the "Oh woe it's dead" stuff.

 

I'm sorry, Brrokk, but there is a marked difference between "alive" and "kept functioning via life support".

Just doing a quick scan, there has been one positive thread about LOTRO on the past 2 pages. That is Brock's Annunimas thread.

I am also in no way defending Heatons OF, he is way too trigger happy, but this forum is extremely one sided. It is the place that people whi are mad go to rant.

 

Two pages out of how many ... ?

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You're going about this all wrong. You should be out there saying "We're on this server. This is our kinship. Come join us, we have over 20 people at peak times!" Ignore those who are pooping directly on your enjoyment, but your approach outlined in my first paragraph is definitely not the way to do it either.

Hear, hear.

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Ok, I know that LOTRO is nowhere near perfect. There is no new traditional group content coming, many mechanics ARE broken. However, there are good things coming.

The new landscape looks beautiful, even though it shares similar textures to other areas. The new quests feel like they did in SoA and Moria. Difficulty is seeping back into the landscape: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551644-Landscape-difficulty-Signatures-hit-a-bit-too-hard

There is a fun Limlight Gorge like area coming out, and communication between players and devs is much clearer than the past (really the only thing I like about Sapience). The list goes on.

The list also goes on about the bad as well.

But this forum solely focuses on the latter. While the moderators in the OF try to make it focus on the former for the most part.

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While the moderators in the OF try to make it focus on the former for the most part.

 

For purely humanitarian and/or player-friendly purposes, right ... ?

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Ok, I know that LOTRO is nowhere near perfect. There is no new traditional group content coming, many mechanics ARE broken. However, there are good things coming.

The new landscape looks beautiful, even though it shares similar textures to other areas. The new quests feel like they did in SoA and Moria. Difficulty is seeping back into the landscape: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551644-Landscape-difficulty-Signatures-hit-a-bit-too-hard

There is a fun Limlight Gorge like area coming out, and communication between players and devs is much clearer than the past (really the only thing I like about Sapience). The list goes on.

The list also goes on about the bad as well.

But this forum solely focuses on the latter. While the moderators in the OF try to make it focus on the former for the most part.

But from my point of view the landscape doesn't look beautiful. The engine is old and there's far better looking stuff out there now. I don't trust the forums regarding landscape difficulty either. And no the communication isn't better.

From some people's points of views, there really isn't anything positive to focus on. The landscape and lore used to be enough for me, but even that's turned poor now.

See... these things are called opinions. And this is why people won't focus on the same positives as you because to them, perhaps they aren't positive.

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Ok, I know that LOTRO is nowhere near perfect. There is no new traditional group content coming, many mechanics ARE broken. However, there are good things coming.

The new landscape looks beautiful, even though it shares similar textures to other areas. The new quests feel like they did in SoA and Moria. Difficulty is seeping back into the landscape: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551644-Landscape-difficulty-Signatures-hit-a-bit-too-hard

There is a fun Limlight Gorge like area coming out, and communication between players and devs is much clearer than the past (really the only thing I like about Sapience). The list goes on.

The list also goes on about the bad as well.

But this forum solely focuses on the latter. While the moderators in the OF try to make it focus on the former for the most part.

Have you ever thought that not everyone shares your opinion?

The screenshots I've seen of the new landscape do not even approach 'beautiful' to me. They aren't even 'average'. Games in this day and age have even average locations that blow this new landscape out of the water.

Quests mean sweet FA to me when there's no end-game to aim for. Questing is not my preferred gameplay, it's a means to an end which no longer exists. Neither does landscape content. It's all like dressing up for a dance that won't ever have any music.

Limlight Gorge was fun because I had my old character. Turbine killed that character when they released HD. Now any attempts to replicate old content I did enjoy is pointless because I no longer have my character anymore.

Communication with devs is futile because they just do not listen (or they are and they don't particularly care). Hence the current state of the game. The mere fact you think the good thing about Sapience is his ability to communicate raises a massive flag for me.

But please, go on with your list of good things we supposedly need to talk about more over here. More old content to repeat over and over? More looking at shoddily made buildings and mountains? More standing around looking for groups that don't exist? Seriously, what good things do you mean because I'm drawing a blank?

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Well I object to people saying LOTRO is dead for the following reasons.

(1) The statement is demonstrably and measurably untrue.

(2) Repeatedly saying it might discourage prospective or infrequent players, making it self-fulfilling.

 

As far as (1) goes, all I can do is line up the evidence. That evidence can only be from my own experience. I don't mean to rub faces in it; it's just the only way I can demonstrate the truth. That "I want to believe" poster above rightly applies to those who are sticking to their belief ("LOTRO is dead") in defiance of the facts. They've had bad experiences in the OF or in-game, so they want it to be dead. Maybe I can get through that kind of blindness by continually referring to the true situation in-game, although I'm not optimistic.

 

For (2), all I can do is keep posting my actual experience in the hope that people who google LOTRO and come here see what I've written as well as all the "Oh woe it's dead" stuff.

 

Your comment 1) is in denial of the fact that all available sources show participation numbers plummeting.

 

You can opt to ignore those sources and refer to your personal gut feeling (BTW, I couldn't help noticing that your posts say "I do", "I can", "I don't see" a lot. I consider this an indicator of not looking what is actually happening around you but having a rather narrow focus. YMMV) and maybe, yes, YOU are lucky enough to find kins members online and the server not completely empty. But again, that is a personal observation and trying to convey facts from such is error-prone.

 

As for your comment 2), you seem to have that backwards.

The self-fulfilling prophecy is in continually telling your group-player clientele that they are, in fact, in a tiny minority and will not longer be catered to. What won't happen is for new droves of players to read this and somehow flocking to such a game to bring up the numbers and rescuing the group content. On the contrary, the existing players will finally realize that continuing their efforts without hope for change is a waste of time and just leave.

The repeated mention of both 1 and 2 is to indicate to Turbine that high time for change was 2 months ago, but they steadfastedly refuse to listen.

 

In short, don't blame it on those pointing out the issues, blame it on them refusing to acknowledge them and react.

 

SNy

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Just doing a quick scan, there has been one positive thread about LOTRO on the past 2 pages. That is Brock's Annunimas thread.

I am also in no way defending Heatons OF, he is way too trigger happy, but this forum is extremely one sided. It is the place that people whi are mad go to rant.

 

I am offended by your calling my Dictionary a negative thread.

 

SNy

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Ok, I know that LOTRO is nowhere near perfect. There is no new traditional group content coming, many mechanics ARE broken. However, there are good things coming.

The new landscape looks beautiful, even though it shares similar textures to other areas. The new quests feel like they did in SoA and Moria. Difficulty is seeping back into the landscape: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551644-Landscape-difficulty-Signatures-hit-a-bit-too-hard

There is a fun Limlight Gorge like area coming out, and communication between players and devs is much clearer than the past (really the only thing I like about Sapience). The list goes on.

The list also goes on about the bad as well.

But this forum solely focuses on the latter. While the moderators in the OF try to make it focus on the former for the most part.

 

Everything LOTRO does, another mmo does better and charges you less.

 

ALL OF THE LANDSCAPE QUESTS AND GROUP INSTANCES in Rift are FREE.

 

THERE IS ONE STORE BUTTON. ONE.

 

Lotro just doesn't cut it. Go and look at what other games have in a MINOR update and compare it to what Turbine have in their updates. Turbine charge premium prices for buggy content that is less than half the size of what you get at a cheaper price or free from other games.

 

You can't even say LOTRO is sticking to the lore any more. How can anyone argue that it is lore appropriate to have huorns following you around as a pet or giving you quests. Ghost bears, swans, chickens. LOTRO is no longer even attempting to be respectful to the source material, so why people claim it is Middle-earth is beyond me. 

 

Nice landscape: ESO does this better than LOTRO:

 

326c9fd70080b3853321ecc5bf2f9ad1.jpg

 

Chorrol_-_Online.jpg

 

Take a look at how other game companies talk to their customers and compare it to Turbine.

 

Turbine are amateurs compared to Trion, Zenimax, Perfect Worlds, ArenaNet even Funcom.

 

LOTRO is a 7 year old game. 7 YEARS OLD! Balancing shouldn't be an issue in a game that old. Balancing issues are things that are problematic for a few months after launch in other games and get sorted fast through trial and error. Turbine have a 7 year old game - they should be able to balance their combat and get it right immediately because they are so familiar with the engine. It's 8 months plus and they haven't sorted it out. 

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Well Im out, its impossible to have a two sided conversation on these forums.

Just one question to you guys, have you ever been on BR?

This first sign of a confrontation and he runs away. Sorry you couldn't argue your point properly.

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Well Im out, its impossible to have a two sided conversation on these forums.

Just one question to you guys, have you ever been on BR?

Patently false. We're having one in this thread, but because Sapience isn't here to delete posts or infract, you feel threatened and thus "lost"? Brokk and others from PC2013 aren't wussies like that, geez.

Question for you: Does BR even matter given that Helm's Deep happened?

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Ok, I know that LOTRO is nowhere near perfect. There is no new traditional group content coming, many mechanics ARE broken. However, there are good things coming.

The new landscape looks beautiful, even though it shares similar textures to other areas. The new quests feel like they did in SoA and Moria. Difficulty is seeping back into the landscape: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551644-Landscape-difficulty-Signatures-hit-a-bit-too-hard

There is a fun Limlight Gorge like area coming out, and communication between players and devs is much clearer than the past (really the only thing I like about Sapience). The list goes on.

The list also goes on about the bad as well.

But this forum solely focuses on the latter. While the moderators in the OF try to make it focus on the former for the most part.

 

I have not seen the beta though I've seen the above thread and if indeed U14 live does provide an experience that is more in line with SOA & MOM than HD then that will be a good thing.

 

Before I sign off for the night, a couple of points you need to be aware of:

 

1. The vast majority of us were once avid fans of LOTRO. For myself, I was a lotro nut and the older parts of the game hold fond memories. So when we're critical you need to separate out criticisms about the game itself (which on the whole on this forum tend to be to the point but objective) and criticisms of the company and in particular the ex-producer who, together with her husband took what as a great MMO and by magic turned it into a not so good one. So you'll have to excuse us for our passions on that point.

 

2. The OF. The OF would be a great place were it not for the community manager. I recall the old codemasters forum and it was a great place to have discussions about the game. Sap brings a certain "je ne sais quoi" to this role, a heady combination of paternalistic favouritism, unprofessionalism and vindictiveness. What's worse than that though are the trolls and hangers on who, desperate for his patronage will happily do his bidding.

 

So, taking those above two point into account, we're not a band bunch & we scrub up clean when required!

Well Im out, its impossible to have a two sided conversation on these forums.

Just one question to you guys, have you ever been on BR?

 

Close the door behind you.

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Well Im out, its impossible to have a two sided conversation on these forums.

Just one question to you guys, have you ever been on BR?

A conversation does not = 100% agreement with all of what you say. You gave your opinion. People countered. That sounds like the perfect definition of a two-sided conversation to me!

And yes, I've been on BR multiple times. Currently no.. because why bother? Doro's analogy is perfect: getting dressed up for a dance with no music is what Lotro has turned in to for some people.

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Meanwhile, over on the OF, threads pointing to the massively article about no more raids are being deleted left and right:

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551676-Editorialize-much

 

"Editorialize much?

There have been now 4 threads based on Sapience's interview and they have all been deleted. Nothing about them were inappropriate or against any rules.


YOU said it, now live with it. 


The job of a moderator is to keep the guidelines followed, not to control content."

 

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Yeah, that's just hilarious. Sapience publishes his words on the official LotRO forum as a representative of Turbine. Semi-amateur blogger picks that up and uses his quote to fill 80% of an "article" that does nothing but parrot. Somehow those threads are deleted. But the original thread with Rick's quote is still there, right?

Hm, I think the only way that makes sense is that Rick is terrified that people on the OF will see the comments under that article, which will undoubtedly exhibit a lot more freedom of opinion (at least I'd hope so). That's the only possible reasoning I can think of.

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Just one question to you guys, have you ever been on BR?

 

yes.

 

it reminds me of what my home server of Nimrodel was like back well before RoI launched.

 

Brandywine is currently the biggest server, with a solid cross section of every level of player.

 

but even Brandywine, compared to Brandywine of previous years, is off pace.

 

now i'll ask you, have you been on Gilrain recently?  (or Elendilmir, Firefoot, Nimrodel, or Riddermark?)

 

Well Im out, its impossible to have a two sided conversation on these forums.

 

i think what you may be aiming at, is compelling arguments to consider alternative views.

 

& in that regard, the deck has been stacked against you, by Turbine/Warner themselves.

 

differences of opinions can co-exist here.  but if one side fails to "convince" & opinions remain different,  we are content to agree to disagree, in most cases.

 

i agree that LoTRO is still online.  i concede Brock may indeed have an active Kin that is enough to predominantly have him content to play actively.

 

i may now wish to turn Brock upside down like a turtle and scrutinize the underbelly of his Snowbourn Kin, "Room for Improvement"  doing my snoopy info dig on how many members it has, their hours of activity, do they recruit, etc.  but i concede it may be active and lively for him.

 

i do not agree that that circumstance, carries over to the larger community.

 

i have too much data, first hand, that counters that perspective.  all i am missing is the French & German servers.  & honestly was surprised to hear the German servers fairing far worse than i initially thought they'd be.

 

...

 

regardless, you can offer up a counter.  if you can deal with disagreement, you should be fine.  we are free to do that here & usually work things out, if given the time.

 

you may even find the occasion were folk agree with a point you make.

 

i mean just look at this:

 

 

Doro's analogy is perfect: getting dressed up for a dance with no music is what Lotro has turned in to for some people.

:O

 

trust me when i say, the above is one of those exceptions... that have the freedom to happen here.

 

as are the disagreements.  they happen too.   the problem isn't the disagreements, but how a person chooses to handle them.

 

getting frustrated and leaving is an option.  so is agreeing to disagree.  that is...

 

if you truly feel you've exhausted stating and framing your position.

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trust me when i say, the above is one of those exceptions... that have the freedom to happen here.

I'm a little taken aback too. First Raed and now Loth! I guess it's too late to build a bunker, because the Apocalypse is nigh!

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