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Haha... Poor Doro... so misunderstood and unappreciated... "I've been wronged (beats chest)"

 

End of discussion from my end.

Don't be a dick. If someone insults me, I won't leave it. And if assholes come along that start acting like I threw the first stone and start insulting me like a hypocrite, then I won't leave that either. Get it?

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That's the beauty of this forum: the moderators aren't trying to 'make' us focus on anything. People are free to express themselves. Yes, many of us have negative feelings about the game, some of us a

Wrongful? No, no and no. Sometimes our words have unintended consequences, but those consequences happen regardless. This happens to us all. Instead of being all "woops, my bad, I didn't mean it like

Sorry, man, wrong forums.   This is not true "He was almost always rude ...". No one is going to believe this.

OK, I gave myself a 24-hour timeout to decide how to respond to all this because I was angry. I've calmed down now.

 

To take minor points first:

- I don't want to argue about the state of the game anymore because I'm faced by a bigger personal issue, below.

- What do I compare LOTRO with? LOTR. I know it's far from perfect, but it's the only MMO available for Tolkien enthusiasts. I wouldn't recommend it to a general MMO enthusiast, except to point out that they can try it for free.

- It's been suggested I could be more helpful about kin membership. Well, I don't feel like doing kin recruitment in this forum but I play on Snowbourn and anyone interested is welcome to send me in-game mail. We have a family-friendly code of conduct which some people appreciate and some don't.

 

Now, the biggie.

 

In a forum like this I'm only an avatar, a name which isn't my RL one, and my only reputation is my posting history. If someone succeeds in misrepresenting that history it's a personal attack, blackening my character. I know this is tiresome, but I'm going to set out just once more the issue which made me angry.

 

At various times I've repeated two statements (not always together).

(1) With LOTRO as it is, no-one can take a long break and expect their kin to be still functioning as it was when they come back.

(2) My kin is doing OK because of effort and commitment by the officers and leader.

 

I really don't see how anyone can disagree with (1). I hope that anyone who still plays and values the officers in their kin would echo something like (2).

 

A few people have construed from these statements that I'm insulting officers of other kins. That's ridiculous, and I've said that it's not my meaning. I asked for this twisting of my words to stop. It didn't, even though when challenged no-one could quote me saying anything other than variations on (1) and (2).

 

In my cooling-off yesterday I realised that I don't need this. I used to enjoy posting here because this was a community of LOTRO players. That's no longer this forum's main focus and I no longer find that it enhances my enjoyment of LOTRO. In fact, it's beginning to have the opposite effect. So this is my last post for the forseeable future.

 

This isn't some dramatic rage-quit; I don't do that stuff. I'll still lurk from time to time because in the past this forum has been much more useful for technical assistance and other information than the official one. If things change and I notice that certain people no longer post here I might return to active posting. For the moment, though, I've had enough of it.

 

45642a5f4778d8bf1b7165425afdd7a0fb564968

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Brrokk, can I give you something else to think about while you take a break from these forums?

 

Imagine a different topic, say the current job market, or dealing with cancer.  In those cases, someone responding to people who are expressing frustration or anger/depression with "gee, business for me has never been better!" or "I did guided mediation and changed my diet and I'm in complete remission" might provoke resentment in others who are having very different experiences.  It doesn't matter that we're talking about a game.  As you know, it can be a significant part of people's lives and they have strong feelings about it.

 

Though it might be true for you, it's in poor taste to cheerily chirp away about your happiness to folks here under the guise of "trying to counter the negativity".  Think about how to let others who are interested in playing know where to find you in the game, and they will.  You already have one person from here interested in joining you.

 

Enjoy your time in the game, and I mean that sincerely.

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...

 

This isn't some dramatic rage-quit; I don't do that stuff. I'll still lurk from time to time because in the past this forum has been much more useful for technical assistance and other information than the official one. If things change and I notice that certain people no longer post here I might return to active posting. For the moment, though, I've had enough of it.

 

It's a shame that you're not going to be active on this forum because you represent how many of us once felt about the game. I did have an issue with how you accused us of putting of new comers to the game though all we were doing were having an honest discussion. Perhaps you should be putting these issues to AC and his team, given that they are the ones in the position to do something about it.

 

As for only returning when others themselves stop posting, that's your prerogative but that's why the /ignore option is your friend. Never let anyone drive you away from a forum. Stand and fight like a true dwarf :)

Yes.

 

Bit fucking childish if you ask me.

Sorry to read your decision Brrokk.

 

Doro is a perpetual asshole and there would be no such sorrow, on my part, with a well deserved and long overdue ban.

 

Enjoy playing your game Brrokk! :)

 

Either petition to have him banned or put him on ignore. 

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Wrongful? No, no and no. Sometimes our words have unintended consequences, but those consequences happen regardless. This happens to us all. Instead of being all "woops, my bad, I didn't mean it like that" and recognise the other side of the coin, he holed up, dug his feet in and only defended himself. If he would have just recognised where logic could take someone from his assertions, at least acknoweldged that other side of the coin, that would have saved a lot of bickering. But instead he needed to staunchly defend the reasons why he believes his kin is still healthy and ignore that he and his kin have had the fortune of Turbine catering to them and this being one of the primary differences between currently healthy and unhealthy/dead kins.

There's really nothing wrong with saying "oops, sorry, didn't mean it that way" instead of getting all agitated about defamation of character. We all goof from time to time, it's human. I understand the need to defend oneself when you really didn't intend for something you said to come off badly. I know I've done it.. and it ended about the same way it has for Brrokk as well. :P

 

Yep.

 

Internet fora would be a better place if people first assumed they were missunderstanding others or missunderstanding their intentions, before they started an argument with people.

 

Missunderstandings and rage because of them thrive on internet fora because we're communicating through text only and time between postings offers us plenty of time to build up rage.

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Yep.

 

Internet fora would be a better place if people first assumed they were missunderstanding others or missunderstanding their intentions, before they started an argument with people.

 

Missunderstandings and rage because of them thrive on internet fora because we're communicating through text only and time between postings offers us plenty of time to build up rage.

That sounds like a pretty good name for a psychiatrist... Miss Understandings...

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Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

 

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

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Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,

and remember what peace there may be in silence.

 

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,

it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Dude...

kEf6WAl.jpg

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Lesson for today: if you have an account on the OF and here, make sure they have different forum names

 

....sorry I don't know where that came from...carry on.

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Yep.

 

Internet fora would be a better place if people first assumed they were missunderstanding others or missunderstanding their intentions, before they started an argument with people.

 

Missunderstandings and rage because of them thrive on internet fora because we're communicating through text only and time between postings offers us plenty of time to build up rage.

I didn't misunderstand Brrokk's intentions. But I did let him know that some of his statements still came off.. I'm not sure of the right word to use.. maybe slightly judgemental, high-horsed.. not sure, but surely not fully understanding all the parts that play into healthy, active kins. Whether he intended it or not, the way he parsed his argument indirectly was somewhat insulting to others.

Just because a person doesn't intend to do something, doesn't mean they don't end up doing it... like I said, something we've all done as we're human.

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I've stopped playing the game, have no desire to. Not even the new areas or the upcoming update can entice me to play.

 

But then again, there are a lot of changes going on in my life (for the better), so that may be part of the reason as to why I don't play much anymore.

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I didn't misunderstand Brrokk's intentions. But I did let him know that some of his statements still came off.. I'm not sure of the right word to use.. maybe slightly judgemental, high-horsed.. not sure, but surely not fully understanding all the parts that play into healthy, active kins. Whether he intended it or not, the way he parsed his argument indirectly was somewhat insulting to others.

Just because a person doesn't intend to do something, doesn't mean they don't end up doing it... like I said, something we've all done as we're human.

 

That. Or maybe just a touch arrogant. I got no beef with Brrokk. Just more of an outside observation.

 

Kinda goes in line with my earlier comment that some people seem to like to rub someone's nose in the fact like "Hahahah my guild is better and more active than yours!!!!111". I've even seen some where they insult those who are not in a guild. In this day and age, it's not surprising to see alot more solo players because of it.

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That. Or maybe just a touch arrogant. I got no beef with Brrokk. Just more of an outside observation.

 

Kinda goes in line with my earlier comment that some people seem to like to rub someone's nose in the fact like "Hahahah my guild is better and more active than yours!!!!111". I've even seen some where they insult those who are not in a guild. In this day and age, it's not surprising to see alot more solo players because of it.

There was also a touch of 'player-blame' creeping in, like so many Fanboys on the OF seem to pull. It was as if the death of kins rested solely on the lack of effort on behalf of players, not the lack of decent content that drives kins away.

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Jesus

Everyone simmer down.

 

A few things I'd like to address. 

1.  Kin unity

I will admit before HD active kins (the ones I was in) had officers/leaders who had to put in considerable work to keep kins active and together.  After HD I'm sure a few had to use out of the box tactics to keep players interested and logging in.  All the kins I have been a part of have done this through gameplay.  Most players want something to do when they log in.  (I'm never going to be an RPer or take part in those event, if my kin has an event I will show up) 

 

For both of the kinships I have belonged to when HD hit, Turbine is solely to blame for the mass exodus.  Not officers, not leaders, not even members.  How many times were we expected to run the exact same content for?   How were we supposed to make Epic Battles fun, when they just weren't?  How were we supposed to get player excited about another Moors zerg?  

 

I was a part of a great WOW guild for 4 years.  What kept us together was the next hurdle.  When we completed Karazhan, there was Zul Aman.  When we beat ZA there was Black Temple and Mount Hyjal.   When those were done there was Sunwell.  That is just the multiboss raids from 1 expansion.  

 

When the developer ceases to provide enough content (keen) players realize this and jump ship.  Not from the kin but the game.  No matter how fun you make the kin activities if something new isn't released in a timely manner or if the current things are not up to snuff (people facerolling content)  people leave the game.  You can preach all the unity  you want to them, at the end of the day they want to spend their money where it is best used.  This usually just happens to be another game.  It doesn't make sense to keep throwing away money if the developer continues to go down a road you just can not find any enjoyment in.

 

I see a lot of blame, as to the dead kins, being thrown back and forth.  TURBINE IS SOLELY TO BLAME FOR PLAYER EXODUS   It is their responsibility to keep players interested in the game by providing new content which is fun.   Ask yourselves this:  Is there any sense in being in a kin other than to have other players craft your stuff in the current game?   If players in my kin asked me to Run SG or WOS or BG or BFE or any other scaled content I would have done so, but begrudgingly.  I am tired of that content over and over and over.

 

2.  The fuckin bickering

Seriously?   I could have sworn I was posting on the O board.   I'd like to think we have a better community than those pricks over there.  I think Brrokk brings a nice element to this forum.  He still actively plays the game while others here do not (myself included).  I think many read into his posts incorrectly.  Brrokk enjoys many aspects of the game.  I do not think he was accusing players of not putting in enough effort to keep players playing the game.   What he was saying is that if your officers and leaders take a 3 month break don't expect to see an active kin when you return.  I can agree with that.  I was the main tank for my WOW guild and took a 2 week vacation to Disney World.  I came back and we lost about 5 players.   Mainly because the runs did not go as smoothly as usual.  Seeing as I was the most active player in guild (averaging 40-50 hours a week), and that I tanked nearly all of the daily 5 mans I could expect players to leave if I took a break.  BUT 2 WEEKS?  Obviously none of the core players left during this time period.  It just goes to show you some players are all "what have you done for me lately" as opposed to "what can I do for you".   Let me reiterate that the 2 week break did not cause the break up of the guild or cause core players to leave. 

 

I will admit I've played fresh with Brrokk a few times.  But nothing that should have made him feel unwelcome here.  Posts like his and Spiteful's posts make me almost want to become a full time player again.  All it takes is 1 simple log in to either one of my servers to change my mind.  If I told you those 2 servers were "dead" (meaning less than lively)  I wouldn't be wrong.  Spending 25$ (transfer)  is not going to remedy the fact that at level 95 I will continue to be bored with the game.  It's not kinnies to blame for this but Turbine. 

 

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There was also a touch of 'player-blame' creeping in, like so many Fanboys on the OF seem to pull. It was as if the death of kins rested solely on the lack of effort on behalf of players, not the lack of decent content that drives kins away.

 

Sad but true. As a player, we can only do so much to help the community. But if the game begins to stagnate, what motivation do we as players have left? Another thing: even now, there are some who are trying to put forth an effort by calling attention to game bugs and class issues. But little response is given except for things like "your idea sucks" or "l2p noob". Then of course we players get blamed for not providing feedback.....

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Jesus

Everyone simmer down.

Dunno who you're addressing as everyone.. but I personally don't need to. I'm not soooper upset in the least. I'm writing in a pretty even, calm tone.. or at least that is the intention. ;):P

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