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lotro dying?


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No, I think that's really a view from the forum. In-game in LOTRO, the great majority of players have no idea who Sapience is.

I'd agree with this, same as in other games I've played with matching OFs.

However. If a prominent kinmember/leader is active on the forums to glean new information, such as new content direction, class balancing per PvP/PvMP/raiding and such, information is going to cascade by chat. The two venues aren't entirely segregated. Word gets out, even if it's only within certain major circles (RPers, raiders, etc.). In LotRO's case, being so extremely solo-centric now, probably none of that matters either. The only news that could possibly impact a current happy player is whether server mergers can/will happen, I think.

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A game can die, sure, but, more often than not, it's held on life support for a long time.

 

Take D2LOD, for example (Tanith is my witness on this one.).  It came out in 2001, only got some gear patches up until 2005, when some actual and new content was added (Uber boss runs).  Sure, ladder competitive seasons were introduced in the interim, but the gameplay remained more-or-less the same, with ladder characters simply being an added grind to the game.  As time went by, people started clamoring for new content, even to the point of calling for "D3" to be released.

 

While no new content was added to D2, D3 finally launched over a decade later.  For the old guard, many of whom busied themselves with MMO's and other pursuits, it was really too late.  For new players, it was just another ARPG, which wasn't really all the rage anymore, with MMO's and MOBA's out there to gain market share.

 

I feel that LOTRO has been consigned to a similar obsolescence.  Turbine will likely give players something to do during the decline, but a LOTRO2 is likely not in the picture.  For the old guard, they will have to make the decision that best suits their time and wallet; for new players, it's just not going to appeal to them, outside of the IP concept application, and even that won't hold interest for newer/younger players for long.

 

Well D3 made pools of cash for Blizzard.  It is best selling PC game of all time, they sold insane number of copies  + had another pools of money from RMAH in it's first few months of operation.  It certainly is one of most profitable BOX games ever.

 

As for BOX sales/no-microtranasction lobby games in general - they generally remain playable / operational for very long time. 

To keep central matchmaking/server list operational cost pennies so it can be kept for years without much problem and sometimes decentralised / playermade structure is made (either by company or players), so even that is not needed and they can operate for as long as there are players willing to play or even a tiny community maintaining it.

 

==================================

As for Lotro.  I agree.  I would say even more.   Even If Lotro 2 would be made,  most of Lotro 1 old-timers would get not what they would expect.  Lotro 2 if it would be made it would be made with atracting new players in mind and not with attracting old-Lotro & ME junkies as some of them(us) would require a game of a type that would certainly not attract new/young players and other group of Lotro1&ME junkies would just take any game with Lotro 2 name so no need to cater to them too.

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After the "shield dwarf thread fiasco" yesterday I wouldn't be surprised to see even more people leave lotro within the next few months.

 

As a likely outcome of this, only the harmlessly inane and "fluff" questions will be picked to be answered in shield runs from now on. It might be more revealing to see which questions are being asked the most (and ignored) in the twitch chat, than the ones that are actually being addressed. 

 

Then again, interest in shield runs (whether participating or watching the streams) might plummet after last night, and the only ones left watching/caring are the sycophants asking Sapience about his favorite food and offering to buy vacations for Turbine employees. 

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Here's an interesting statement from Sapience, in a response to a thread asking what happens in 2017 when the license runs out (thread is locked of course):

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551162-What-comes-after-2017-Let-s-say-goodbye&p=7191155#post7191155

 

"I'm not sure what the goal or point of this thread is other than to possibly stir up people. It's a long way off and well beyond any time frame we're discussing with players at the moment."

 

So the end of their license is "well beyond" their vision of how long the game will be operational?

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Here's an interesting statement from Sapience, in a response to a thread asking what happens in 2017 when the license runs out (thread is locked of course):

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551162-What-comes-after-2017-Let-s-say-goodbye&p=7191155#post7191155

"I'm not sure what the goal or point of this thread is other than to possibly stir up people. It's a long way off and well beyond any time frame we're discussing with players at the moment."

So the end of their license is "well beyond" their vision of how long the game will be operational?

Now, now. Remember what "read the words written and not assign meaning or intent to them..."

Words. They're just to look pretty on a page or screen, eh.

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Here's an interesting statement from Sapience, in a response to a thread asking what happens in 2017 when the license runs out (thread is locked of course):

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551162-What-comes-after-2017-Let-s-say-goodbye&p=7191155#post7191155

 

"I'm not sure what the goal or point of this thread is other than to possibly stir up people. It's a long way off and well beyond any time frame we're discussing with players at the moment."

 

So the end of their license is "well beyond" their vision of how long the game will be operational?

 

That red part to me is the final, deadpan indication the shutdown date has already been scheduled. Hell, even if it was a month from today it'd be "well beyond any time frame we're discussing with players." 

 

Now, now. Remember what "read the words written and not assign meaning or intent to them..."

Words. They're just to look pretty on a page or screen, eh.

 

Zomg whew, back to subscribing and buying 250.000 Turbine points so I can "laugh out loud while playing". 

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Zomg whew, back to subscribing and buying 250.000 Turbine points so I can "laugh out loud while playing". 

 

That's what it's all about, right? Cute little harmless moments that we look at (as on a tv screen) instead of actually participate in? A funny name, a silly cosmetic pet, a pretty song or dance? That's what '90+ percent' of the players pay for, right? The chance to look at LOTR? This wouldn't be a video game or anything, after all.

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I'd agree with this, same as in other games I've played with matching OFs.

However. If a prominent kinmember/leader is active on the forums to glean new information, such as new content direction, class balancing per PvP/PvMP/raiding and such, information is going to cascade by chat. The two venues aren't entirely segregated. Word gets out, even if it's only within certain major circles (RPers, raiders, etc.). In LotRO's case, being so extremely solo-centric now, probably none of that matters either. The only news that could possibly impact a current happy player is whether server mergers can/will happen, I think.

 

I think there's a lot to this.  Certain people in kin's tend to be the driving force.  If they get disaffected, they can end up pushing the majority of the kin to leave the game.  At least that was my experience when almost all of our kin left the game, almost all at the same time.  

 

I believe there is a corresponding overall effect on the game with the more serious raiders and pvp'ers.  Turbine may well be right that these types aren't a big percentage of the playerbase (especially if you're taking in to account everyone who's created an account), but those less casual players tend to be driving forces in the game.  They push discussion in the forums about game mechanics.  They're a noticeable presence in the moors and GLFF.  When they leave the game, lots of people notice and start questioning why and the disaffection spreads.

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I love it. The latest expansion was almost entirely based around grouping (Big Battles) and yet the same people beat the same old drum that they are focusing on solo players, when in reality, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

LOTRO is dying because it's catering too much to the people in the forums and it's killing the game.

 

Wah wah wah, we wanted mounted combat.

 

Turbine gives us mounted combat and it's terrible. Rohan bombs

 

Wah wah wah, we want group content

 

Turbine makes its next expansion all about Big Battles which is meant for groups (at least a duo).  It bombs even harder

 

Wah wah wah, the game is too easy/a faceroll

 

Turbine makes it harder. Everyone not a hardcore player leaves because they can't even do solo landscapes quests anymore

 

Wah wah wah, Turbine never listens to us! Wah wah wah, the game is dying.

 

The problem is that Turbine isn't catering to the very people that make up the bulk of the game. Instead they are trying to please the most vocal people, and are doing a terrible job of it. But even if they weren't, the same people (raiders/PVPers) are always the ones constantly griping. I've never played a MMORPG where they didn't.

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I love it. The latest expansion was almost entirely based around grouping (Big Battles) and yet the same people beat the same old drum that they are focusing on solo players, when in reality, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

LOTRO is dying because it's catering too much to the people in the forums and it's killing the game.

 

Wah wah wah, we wanted mounted combat.

 

Turbine gives us mounted combat and it's terrible. Rohan bombs

 

Wah wah wah, we want group content

 

Turbine makes its next expansion all about Big Battles which is meant for groups (at least a duo).  It bombs even harder

 

Wah wah wah, the game is too easy/a faceroll

 

Turbine makes it harder. Everyone not a hardcore player leaves because they can't even do solo landscapes quests anymore

 

Wah wah wah, Turbine never listens to us! Wah wah wah, the game is dying.

 

The problem is that Turbine isn't catering to the very people that make up the bulk of the game. Instead they are trying to please the most vocal people, and are doing a terrible job of it. But even if they weren't, the same people (raiders/PVPers) are always the ones constantly griping. I've never played a MMORPG where they didn't.

 

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Your post is just incoherent...

I love it. The latest expansion was almost entirely based around grouping (Big Battles) and yet the same people beat the same old drum that they are focusing on solo players, when in reality, nothing could be further from the truth.

LOTRO is dying because it's catering too much to the people in the forums and it's killing the game.

Wah wah wah, we wanted mounted combat.

Turbine gives us mounted combat and it's terrible. Rohan bombs

It bombed because of the way it was implemented along with game performance issues like every common lag and unbalanced class specialization and being user-unfriendly for regular use (i.e. everyone was required to max out the skill that allowed for better turning). The majority of players including those who hate Turbine's implementation of MC agree that MC should have been attempted for Rohan, but they didn't do a good job and did not do proper early feedback testing.

Mounted combat didn't bomb because it existed or that players asked for it. Next.

Wah wah wah, we want group content

Turbine makes its next expansion all about Big Battles which is meant for groups (at least a duo). It bombs even harder

Big Battles bombed due to being buggy alongside making the class revamps pointless in the first place, because basic combat mechanics were so broken and the BBs weren't designed for actual class mechanics. Any purported group content in a class-based game that does not make use of class mechanics in a cohesive, synergistic manner is absolutely not legitimate group content.

Big Battles didn't bomb because they're supposed to be group content, like you imply, but because they were so poorly implemented with bad class revamps. Next.

Wah wah wah, the game is too easy/a faceroll

Turbine makes it harder. Everyone not a hardcore player leaves because they can't even do solo landscapes quests anymore

Really? Even at this point you think only hardcore players can handle the still-nerfed landscape? You honestly believe that people like the heydts who wear gear 10-20 levels below level and stack the wrong class stat should be able to breeze landscape content? Maybe you really are just trolling...

Wah wah wah, Turbine never listens to us! Wah wah wah, the game is dying.

The problem is that Turbine isn't catering to the very people that make up the bulk of the game. Instead they are trying to please the most vocal people, and are doing a terrible job of it. But even if they weren't, the same people (raiders/PVPers) are always the ones constantly griping. I've never played a MMORPG where they didn't.

I honestly don't understand what you're even trying to say here. "Turbine is catering only to the vocal players, except raiders/PvPers who are always the vocal players."

So answer this, since you conveniently skipped over the biggest change in Helm's Deep: Who was Turbine trying to cater to with the class revamps? Because NO ONE ever asked for that.

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So answer this, since you conveniently skipped over the biggest change in Helm's Deep: Who was Turbine trying to cater to with the class revamps? Because NO ONE ever asked for that.

 

Probably the same people who demanded mounted combat i.e. nobody.

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Your post is just incoherent...

It bombed because of the way it was implemented along with game performance issues like every common lag and unbalanced class specialization and being user-unfriendly for regular use (i.e. everyone was required to max out the skill that allowed for better turning). The majority of players including those who hate Turbine's implementation of MC agree that MC should have been attempted for Rohan, but they didn't do a good job and did not do proper early feedback testing.

Mounted combat didn't bomb because it existed or that players asked for it. Next.

 

The main problem with the Warsteeds is that they it outperforms the hardware and network capabilities. That results in a lot of hitching, rubberbanding, and general performance issues. I sometimes suspect that the lag that people complain about often stems from these issues (that's not to say that there's not an issue with lag in general - it's been too well documented since U6 came out a couple of years ago).

 

In my experience, the MC system was better when we did have to put points into agility. Once I had the main stats maxed out, I had pretty decent control over my light mount. Once they took away that ability, I felt like I was skating all over the landscape. And if a lagspike hits (as it often does) when I turn, forget it - there's no telling where I might end up. In Fangorn, for instance, if I take the path north out of Derndingle, there's a curve just before the river. *Every time* I hit that point, my Warsteed skitters to the left, and I get hung up on a branch conveniently placed at the edge of the path. If I return to Derndingle along that same path, there's a slight curve and a dip just as you enter the clearing, and, again, the Warsteed skitters left and then jumps right. It's like doing the timewarp, usually with a broken leg (from the dip I mentioned).

 

I think the system would have been much better if it had just been a slightly fancier version of the standard horsepants (and incorporated the horsepants we already earned in game).

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Just pointing out the Agility thing, if something like that is required for everyone for a remotely usable object, that's some pretty shitty design there; I never followed how MC was received during BR, wonder if people complained about that sort of thing early on and Turbine just (as usual) didn't listen. I don't remember at what point Turbine finally changed MC so that everyone got improved turning without requiring points or whatever, as that was probably the time I had significantly reduced my play time... Sounds like that didn't quite do the trick either, but MC is beyond help at this point. Yet another abandoned system.

But yeah, a much simpler version of MC, something built on our existing steeds, would have been better, I think. And FFS no more LIs. Eh. What were we talking about?

I keep missing the Volan zone event, which makes me very sad.

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I'd agree with this, same as in other games I've played with matching OFs.

However. If a prominent kinmember/leader is active on the forums to glean new information, such as new content direction, class balancing per PvP/PvMP/raiding and such, information is going to cascade by chat. The two venues aren't entirely segregated. Word gets out, even if it's only within certain major circles (RPers, raiders, etc.). In LotRO's case, being so extremely solo-centric now, probably none of that matters either. The only news that could possibly impact a current happy player is whether server mergers can/will happen, I think.

 

This. When I was playing LOTRO exclusively a few years back, I was in a fairly large Kin, and we had several members - myself included - who frequented the OF to garner game information and pass it on to our Kinmates via our Kin's forums and website. What happened on the OF was passed down to the vast majority of the Kin within a day, and I expect our Kin wasn't special in that regard.

 

What Rick Heaton does on the OF has an effect in the game, if only because those few who frequent the OF aren't going to keep quiet about it when they are in-game. They will talk to their Kinmates, or perhaps to others in Chat channels, especially if what they found on the OF infuriated them. And since we know Rick has a habit of infuriating people on the OF...

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Just pointing out the Agility thing, if something like that is required for everyone for a remotely usable object, that's some pretty shitty design there; I never followed how MC was received during BR, wonder if people complained about that sort of thing early on and Turbine just (as usual) didn't listen. I don't remember at what point Turbine finally changed MC so that everyone got improved turning without requiring points or whatever, as that was probably the time I had significantly reduced my play time... Sounds like that didn't quite do the trick either, but MC is beyond help at this point. Yet another abandoned system.

But yeah, a much simpler version of MC, something built on our existing steeds, would have been better, I think. And FFS no more LIs. Eh. What were we talking about?

I keep missing the Volan zone event, which makes me very sad.

 

Yes it was mentioned often on BR,  I even think the few senior devs actually (silently) agreed with (multiple) issues not just MC reading between the lines.  Beta was extended significantly after all, however I suspect IC was hitting crunch phase at this point.  Ultimately it is/was a system ambitious beyond the recourses available to implement as they had originally spitballed is my guess.  Turbines always been bad about musical chairs development teams on running more roosters(projects) than the hen house can hold.  

Can someone explain to me what this "shield dwarf thread fiasco" was about.  Seems I missed it.

 

The  MalP new guy thread got a lot of people talking about groups including many who had departed, creating an interest in the topic.  One of the questions during the shield run was about group content.  Sap gave a definitive answer of never more or less citing 8 yrs of meta data (un sourced) as the reason.  People predictably asked what the data was derived from and how it was interpreted.  Sap got emotionally involved and like a reporter becoming part of the story instead of reporting the story it went downhill from there.

 

EDIT later about 1/3 to 1/4 of the posts were removed

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Ghost town actually seems more like it.  A friend from work told me about his kid getting interested in playing Lotro.  Yesterday we were hanging out for a bbq get together at his place, and I popped in on his daughter to see her set up since she asked me to.  She was logged in to Elendilmir, which had been my original server back in '08.  She was running a level 15 hunter.  There was absolutely NO ONE around in Bree and it was the middle of the afternoon on a weekend.  She said it seems like that all the time no matter what time she plays.  Was very sad to see.  In the end, we discussed ESO and The Sceret World, both of which she is downloading as we speak, lol...

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Can someone explain to me what this "shield dwarf thread fiasco" was about.  Seems I missed it.

 

Basically sapience admitted that lotro will no longer have new raids or group instances, because too few people played these.

 

While the thread on the offically censored forums has been "slightly modified" by Sapience you can enjoy a nice little discussion about this topic with some of the (now removed) answers to the shield dwarf thread.

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