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Leafblade

3 Month Review of ESO

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I've loved the ES franchise ever since Daggerfall. I was a bit intrigued when they announced ESO. From what I've read and heard from other players, I find myself...not really interested. Maybe I'll change my mind when its released on console. I need another MMO for my PS4 besides Warframe and DCUO (although Destiny looks hella fun too, and the beta's coming up in a couple of weeks)

 

I have a funny feeling that it will end up f2p sooner rather than later.

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It's an odd one. My guild has about 55 players ion Lotro. One has left due to the vet content, another has canceled their sub and will not be renewing unless things changed.

 

However the rest of us are still absolutely loving it.

 

When I first hit vet, it is a bit of a shock, Zenimax made the mistake of not increasing the difficulty much over 1 - 49 so suddenly hitting vet at 50 and your blocking, dodging etc and which skills you use really matter, well it is a bit of a wake up moment.

 

I had to respec completely, ditch my pets and my bow (was my 2nd weapon) and now I am having great fun in vet content as are most of my guild.

 

There is zero talk about people wanting to leave or people getting bored apart from two people.

 

Most love PvP and those at vet level are also really enjoying it.

 

The only real talk about unhappiness in my guild was the announcement a couple of days ago that they are making the vet content a bit easier due to all the complaints they got that it was too hard.

 

But I don't think making it easier will help at all.

 

Zenimax stupidly told people they can play as they like, and many people took that to mean they can wear exactly what they want and use any old skill they want, never having to pay attention to stats etc and they should be able to complete all content playing solo by doing so. These are mainly the unhappy ones with vet level.

 

Sure some classes need tweaking, you should be able to do every day vet stuff with whatever weapon style you choose etc, 

 

The OF forums have erupted in the past 48 hrs with many many people saying how they hate the proposed dumbing down of vet content and how they are happy with the content exactly as it is.

 

Many others remind me of Lotros forums when they say they pay to play, they should be able to do everything solo and never have to group and that casual game play is where the money is etc and many are calling people asking for the content not to be made easier, elitist snobs, usual stuff.

 

One even said that true TES fans were the ones welcoming the change, only elitist snobs were against the change, yet my guild is a TES loving guild that do not welcome elite players, but hates the proposed changes.

 

I just am getting sick of the whole genre at the moment, will carry on with ESO unless they dumb it down too much, then I'm finding something else to do, I am sick of dealing with idiots who cant have a civil conversation whether those idiots are casual players or hard core raiders.,

 

I think it's really simple. Zenimax made a game that wasn't copying EQ and WOW and while many like it, many also hate it and are crying out for more EQ, WOW.  I don't think they will be happy regardless of whats changed, Zenimax has listened to the forum complainers demanding vet content be made easier, stupidly not realising that there are many happy with the content. Now they have announced proposed changes, the exact opposite is happening, others are demanding it's left as it is

 

And many are saying "here we go again,"

 

The questing has been some of the best I've ever seen in an mmo. The levelling could have been harder 1 - 49 and should have got more difficult.

 

Vet level, certain skills and classes need balancing.

 

But the vast majority of my guild are more than happy with the game, have no intention of leaving, never have problems finding huge active PvP battles etc.

 

Time will tell.

I have seen more people threaten toi leave if they make it easier than I have seen threaten to leave in a long time

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Yeah, I hate sound like a snob myself, but I really don't like the trend of taking a game franchise and making the game a bit too accessible for the general audience (I'm looking at you, Dark Souls 2). Maybe it was because I came from the Atari/NES/Genesis days where games were more than a bit brutal (I hate you soooo much, Battletoads...) but I relished a challenge.

 

That being said, the ES series past Morrowind wasn't exactly on the hard side.....

 

I hope they succeed.....but in the meantime, I'll just wait for Fallout 4 :P

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My impression?

 

It's ok, but the single player roots obviously show through in a lot of the quests (not really designed for an MMO with other people running around ruining the immersion).  Also I'm not sure playing through other factions quests is a good idea for VR advancement.  I think there should have been more focus on end game group content, but I'm a bit of an old fart MMO stickler like that.  If my kin/guild weren't fairly heavily invested in the game, I probably wouldn't still be playing it.

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Yep I agree about the other factions.

 

I wanted to take alts through them and having to do so on my main kind of ruins my alt questing experience.

 

 

 

Thinking about my earlier post, I  imagine if your the type of player that wants to only play solo then ESO is never going to be for you.  I play solo a lot, but I am in a good guild and still group up at least 2 evenings a week whether for dungeons or PvP and we have a good laugh over Mumble in the process.  

 

Playing ESO alone I imagine is a very unfulfilling experience yet its what many are demanding the option to do. A lot of posters have demanded the ability that all content be soloable and even when people like me say theire should be content for solo players plus challenging content for group players, these players strongly disagree and say they pay for the game hence all content should be available for them to solo through.

 

When I and others said we liked challenging content, we got the usual "why should we not be able to play, if you want itr easier, don't use any armour, unslot any healing skills, why should we suffer due to your elitism" type of responses

 

And of course when I respond along the lines of "I could just as easily say I have worked to get to my level, earned and learnt my spells, learnt my craft and made my armour, why should I have to get rid of it all just because you cant be bothered to group occasionally, hence your asking me to compromise and change my play style for your benefit,  because you don't want to compromise or change yours.

 

But of course they ignore  such comments yet repeat their drivel in every other thread

 

I was 50 last month, I feel like I'm in conversations with 15 year olds

 

 

 

Calling everyone who wants challenging content elitist snobs and in the same breath saying they couldn't care less if we all left the game.

 

Usual stuff. 

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To copy a new thread that has recently been started on ESO OF (not by me), this is the first post that shows the frustration being expressed by many at the proposed changes.

 

 

This is OUR game!

 

People who want to come home from work and sleep through an online game like it is supposed to be their digital sedative HAVE their games! Rift, WoW, FFXIV, etc., etc., etc...

WHY CAN'T ZOS JUST LET YOU FLAG YOURSELF FOR SOLO?

That way you can play in a phase where everything is faceroll easy. You can have your digital sedative, and ZOS doesn't have to ruin the fun for everyone else!

Why does EVERY MMO have to cater to people that want to solo everything and never have to think about strategy or game mechanics, playing "how they want" to unwind from their "hard day at work" as if we all didn't have to do it, even if that is basically having an IV drip of instant gratification attached to their refusal to engage or adapt to anything?

Why can't there actually be an MMO designed for GROUP PLAY? Or at least that challenges those MINIMALLY (veteran content is EASY if you play the game as designed) who wish to solo everything?

Make it doable, but don't make it pointless!

No risk, no reward!

Veteran content in this game was the PERFECT mix. You could EASILY solo EVERYTHING outside of instanced and public dungeons and some world bosses if you actually showed thewillingness to adapt your spec to do it. There were plenty of skill points by veteran levels to have all the backup abilities you would need to keep your current play style AND have several backups to fall back on.

Plus it provided at least > 5sec combat if you DID decide to play in a group. It gave you a sense of there being a REASON to play in a group. Like it mattered if you were there to help heal or tank for someone. Sure they could do it by themselves, but they could do it much easier and much faster with less risk and potentially more fun (synergy, spell effects) because YOU were there.

Now what will we have? A bunch of every-man-for-himself faceroll soloists and meaningless characters that aren't needed for 90% of the game.

What were you THINKING ZOS?

Nerf SOLO INSTANCED QUESTS if you must, but don't destroy the perfect balance you created because paid disinformation agents from other games come onto your forums and extend the Facebook experiment on contagious negativity!

Erect the spin of growing a spine!

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That post doesn't make sense in the least, how can VR content that is easily soloable be challenging. I would categorize VR content as soloable, but challenging, unless you just spam heals and kite.

 

I too think ESO will be F2P sooner than later. I don't know how EU servers are, but on NA there is one PvP zone that regularly gets locked and all the rest have single bars of participation, and that was before the end of the campaign.

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The EU campaigns have a decent population in them during normal playing hours. Queues are frequent, especially if trying to enter as a group.

Auriels Bow, Bloodthorn, Dawnbreaker & Wabbajack are the high activity ones.

Haven't had much of a look at the 'special event' one(but there seems to be medium numbers on that one in the evenings).

I am however looking forward to the datacenter migration :)

I'm cautiously looking forward to tomorrows patch.

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I think the problem with ESO is that they need to focus (don't hate me for this) on creating more and more solo content at endgame.

 

Soloisation is an industry-wide trend due to the overwhelming numbers of players wanting to solo everything. You can't argue with that being the case because all of the games out there would not be catering to soloers if it wasn't financially viable.

 

The Elder Scrolls series' customer base love the series for it's solo, go-out-on-and-do-your-own-thing gameplay. At the moment the game is the bastard love-child of the Elder Scroll Series and a mmorpg, and it fails at both. The game needs to decide what it wants to be. Mmos fans are not completely happy and neither are the ES series fans.

 

I'm not sure it works at the moment. Group content can often be a mess as the gameplay style is fundamentally from a solo game.

 

There is a reason that the traditional mmo skill bar mechanics and tabbed targeting have lasted so long - it works. It gives the player a hell of a lot of control of their skills and allows the design of complicated bosses and raid mechanics. I fail to see how ESO will be able to do this much as the combat is mainly dodge, block and a dps race. People will get quickly bored of that.

 

I view ESO as a fascinating experiment and wonder how the game will evolve. The fact that they are adjusting veteran content to make it easier to solo is incredibly telling.

 

Why can't ESO be an online predominately solo game with optional group dungeons - mmosolog, if you will? I believe that is what the established fan-base wanted -  a regularly updated online version of Skrim, perhaps sub free and with new content sold like downloadable content for solo games. I believe that this could be a new potential genre.

 

I'm envisioning massive changes to the game within the next year to bring it more in line with what the huge established fan base expected and want. At the moment many are not happy and think it is too-watered down.

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I think the problem with ESO is that they need to focus (don't hate me for this) on creating more and more solo content at endgame.

 

Soloisation is an industry-wide trend due to the overwhelming numbers of players wanting to solo everything. You can't argue with that being the case because all of the games out there would not be catering to soloers if it wasn't financially viable.

 

The Elder Scrolls series' customer base love the series for it's solo, go-out-on-and-do-your-own-thing gameplay. At the moment the game is the bastard love-child of the Elder Scroll Series and a mmorpg, and it fails at both. The game needs to decide what it wants to be. Mmos fans are not completely happy and neither are the ES series fans.

 

I'm not sure it works at the moment. Group content can often be a mess as the gameplay style is fundamentally from a solo game.

 

There is a reason that the traditional mmo skill bar mechanics and tabbed targeting have lasted so long - it works. It gives the player a hell of a lot of control of their skills and allows the design of complicated bosses and raid mechanics. I fail to see how ESO will be able to do this much as the combat is mainly dodge, block and a dps race. People will get quickly bored of that.

 

I view ESO as a fascinating experiment and wonder how the game will evolve. The fact that they are adjusting veteran content to make it easier to solo is incredibly telling.

 

Why can't ESO be an online predominately solo game with optional group dungeons - mmosolog, if you will? I believe that is what the established fan-base wanted -  a regularly updated online version of Skrim, perhaps sub free and with new content sold like downloadable content for solo games. I believe that this could be a new potential genre.

 

I'm envisioning massive changes to the game within the next year to bring it more in line with what the huge established fan base expected and want. At the moment many are not happy and think it is too-watered down.

 

Wa?? lol... At this point is IS a predominantly solo game with optional grouping.  How much more solo does it need to get??

 

The group content of the game is one of the few things that is done very well.  It sounds like you are suggesting it not be in the game at all?  As I see it, the combat system as it is designed is never as viable anyplace in the game as it is when you are doing dungeons with other people.  There is also far more to duneons than "mainly dodge, block and a dps race," most especially at the veteran level.  Before they started nerfing things and the bosses in 4 mans at any rate due to this type of arguing....they were actually a challenge and fun to do.  But in came the QQ and the "solo-ization argument" and viola! there goes the fun for groups.

 

AS a TES series fan and as an MMO player, the one aspect of this game which has kept me very happy is the grouping, since the "solo experience" as you describe it is by far one of the most boring I've had in a while.  The quests in the game are about 25% nice and 75% boring as all get out, especially after doing 3 full factions of the stuff, let alone Coldharbor and Craglorn for good measure.

 

To be clear, I am never opposed to soloable content.  I do take issue however with even the hint of a notion that the reason THIS particular MMO does not work is because it has too much content that cannot be soloed.  This game has a minimum of dungeons and one full on level raid at the momemt - that is hardly an over investment in things that you cannot solo. 

 

(The last thing I would want to have to do is some Hytbold type of nonesense ever ever again, yikes!  I am happy to group at end game and to hell with stuff like that, but that is me)

 

Arguments about difficulty notwithstanding, don't even let's get started on balancing for PvE vs the PvP scene... the issue with ESO as with most MMOs these days is that it continues to draw polar opposite types of players and nether the twain shall meet happily in one game.  It used to be however, that the king of soloing experiences was (gasp!) a standalone, single player game.  Then someone decided that they had to tap in financially on all those people sitting at home alone playing and now it is supposed to be single player content in every MMO because apparently the "M"s no longer mean what they used to. 

 

Very sad.

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Indeed mtones.  We've got a kin/guild get together in November, after which I'll decide on whether to part ways with ESO.  That decision will be based purely on how much fun I'm getting out of the end game group content at that stage.  Couldn't give a stuff about the end game solo content. 

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I'm not sure what the issue was, but the login issues relating to unrecognized IPs has been a hassle.  Life has been busy so I've logged in for little more than advancing crafting research lately, but my wife and I wanted to play the other night and could not. She's not been able to log in for a week.  She had to get that email with a password due to the 'unrecognized IP address' every time she logged in for a time and now it does not even send the email.  Very frustrating for her.  Called CS.  They asked her to form a new email and have the emails sent there.  Not a solution she was happy with.

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I think the problem with ESO is that they need to focus (don't hate me for this) on creating more and more solo content at endgame.

 

Soloisation is an industry-wide trend due to the overwhelming numbers of players wanting to solo everything. You can't argue with that being the case because all of the games out there would not be catering to soloers if it wasn't financially viable.

 

The Elder Scrolls series' customer base love the series for it's solo, go-out-on-and-do-your-own-thing gameplay. At the moment the game is the bastard love-child of the Elder Scroll Series and a mmorpg, and it fails at both. The game needs to decide what it wants to be. Mmos fans are not completely happy and neither are the ES series fans.

 

I'm not sure it works at the moment. Group content can often be a mess as the gameplay style is fundamentally from a solo game.

 

There is a reason that the traditional mmo skill bar mechanics and tabbed targeting have lasted so long - it works. It gives the player a hell of a lot of control of their skills and allows the design of complicated bosses and raid mechanics. I fail to see how ESO will be able to do this much as the combat is mainly dodge, block and a dps race. People will get quickly bored of that.

 

I view ESO as a fascinating experiment and wonder how the game will evolve. The fact that they are adjusting veteran content to make it easier to solo is incredibly telling.

 

Why can't ESO be an online predominately solo game with optional group dungeons - mmosolog, if you will? I believe that is what the established fan-base wanted -  a regularly updated online version of Skrim, perhaps sub free and with new content sold like downloadable content for solo games. I believe that this could be a new potential genre.

 

I'm envisioning massive changes to the game within the next year to bring it more in line with what the huge established fan base expected and want. At the moment many are not happy and think it is too-watered down.

It already is predominately solo game with optional group dungeons, same as every single other themepark mmorpg on the market atm.

 

Anyway:

 

You can't have both anymore.  People are getting tired of how mmorpg's are getting handled. 

Soloers are leaving if game is not solo enough and groupers are doing exactly same - leaving far more quicker than in past when it is not group enough. 

Same for those who're looking for fantasy virtual world simulators with economies, trading, risk/reward, coherency,  etc  

MMORPG's genre while still big is losing it's playerbase and generally losing steam. 

 

One mmorpg which fits all is a obsolete concept.

 

PS. Single player TES players want  TES co-op for 2-4 players without on-going payments like microtransactions or subs and without servers, mmo mechanics and all this stuff and not soloized to extreme mmorpg game. For ESO co-op that TES players really want you would have to make a new game from ground up.   Modyfying TESO for that is not possible.

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It already is predominately solo game with optional group dungeons, same as every single other themepark mmorpg on the market atm.

 

Anyway:

 

You can't have both anymore.  People are getting tired of how mmorpg's are getting handled. 

Soloers are leaving if game is not solo enough and groupers are doing exactly same - leaving far more quicker than in past when it is not group enough. 

Same for those who're looking for fantasy virtual world simulators with economies, trading, risk/reward, coherency,  etc  

MMORPG's genre while still big is losing it's playerbase and generally losing steam. 

 

One mmorpg which fits all is a obsolete concept.

 

PS. Single player TES players want  TES co-op for 2-4 players without on-going payments like microtransactions or subs and without servers, mmo mechanics and all this stuff and not soloized to extreme mmorpg game. For ESO co-op that TES players really want you would have to make a new game from ground up.   Modyfying TESO for that is not possible.

 

 

 

Wa?? lol... At this point is IS a predominantly solo game with optional grouping.  How much more solo does it need to get??

 

The group content of the game is one of the few things that is done very well.  It sounds like you are suggesting it not be in the game at all?  As I see it, the combat system as it is designed is never as viable anyplace in the game as it is when you are doing dungeons with other people.  There is also far more to duneons than "mainly dodge, block and a dps race," most especially at the veteran level.  Before they started nerfing things and the bosses in 4 mans at any rate due to this type of arguing....they were actually a challenge and fun to do.  But in came the QQ and the "solo-ization argument" and viola! there goes the fun for groups.

 

AS a TES series fan and as an MMO player, the one aspect of this game which has kept me very happy is the grouping, since the "solo experience" as you describe it is by far one of the most boring I've had in a while.  The quests in the game are about 25% nice and 75% boring as all get out, especially after doing 3 full factions of the stuff, let alone Coldharbor and Craglorn for good measure.

 

To be clear, I am never opposed to soloable content.  I do take issue however with even the hint of a notion that the reason THIS particular MMO does not work is because it has too much content that cannot be soloed.  This game has a minimum of dungeons and one full on level raid at the momemt - that is hardly an over investment in things that you cannot solo. 

 

(The last thing I would want to have to do is some Hytbold type of nonesense ever ever again, yikes!  I am happy to group at end game and to hell with stuff like that, but that is me)

 

Arguments about difficulty notwithstanding, don't even let's get started on balancing for PvE vs the PvP scene... the issue with ESO as with most MMOs these days is that it continues to draw polar opposite types of players and nether the twain shall meet happily in one game.  It used to be however, that the king of soloing experiences was (gasp!) a standalone, single player game.  Then someone decided that they had to tap in financially on all those people sitting at home alone playing and now it is supposed to be single player content in every MMO because apparently the "M"s no longer mean what they used to. 

 

Very sad.

 

The point I was trying to make is that I don't think a ESO is effectively catering to both crowds (groupers and soloers) at end game.

 

There are loads of complaints from people who have reached cap, can't do the veteran content and don't want to group.

 

ESO has been panned by a hell of a lot of the series' huge fan base as they think it is too watered down, don't want to see others on the landscape, group etc. 

 

I like mmos and group content but I also think that companies should respect their established fan base and not disappoint them. Zenimax have disappointed thousands of their loyal customers who thought the game was made for them and are upset to find that the things they love about the series are watered down. I think that was a misstep on their part and could come back to bite them in the arse. If these people are not catered to, they will leave. Many have.

 

It's almost as though the series' fans have had their game stolen from them and I feel for them. 

 

I'm not saying the game shouldn't have group content. I'm all for options.

 

I am saying the game needs end game solo content for people. If it doesn't provide it, watch people leave in droves.

 

People want what they want; it is just the way they are. You can't force people to want to do group content.

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The point I was trying to make is that I don't think a ESO is effectively catering to both crowds (groupers and soloers).

 

There are loads of complaints from people who have reached cap, can't do the veteran content and don't want to group.

 

ESO has been panned by a hell of a lot of the series' huge fan base as they think it is too watered down, don't want to see others on the landscape, group etc. 

 

I like mmos and group content but I also think that companies should respect their established fan base and not disappoint them. Zenimax have disappointed thousands of their loyal customers who thought the game was made for them and they are upset to find that the things they love about the series are watered down. I think that was a misstep on their part and could come back to bite them in the arse. If these people are not catered to, they will leave.

 

It's almost as though the series' fans have had their game stolen from them and I feel for them. 

 

The game needs end game solo content for these people. If it doesn't provide it, watch people leave in droves.

It is not possible to make it un-watered down. Not without making new game from ground up.

 

Examples:

1. Combat is and will be perceived as worse by TES fans because: there is no real aiming, no weapon collision and generally no mechanics and tech for action combat.   TESO combat is MMORPG-mechanics based in nature with pig pipstick to make it look&feel like action&TES like, but in reality it is not.   You can't "fix" this. 

 

2. AI, quests, etc  -  yeah there is lots of animations and dialogues like in TES games, but overally whole experience is MMORPG WoW-like quests + cutscenes.  Not sure how you plan to un-water it down.  Rewriting many mechanics, writing new AI-routines, dropping off mmorpg-hand holding mechanics risking wrath of those who are already accustomed to them?     

 

3. Mods - yeah this won't happen in TESO ever.  Just not possible.

 

 

Lot of things like those.  To make TESO un-watered down you would have to spent years making and rewriting stuff.   Easier to make new game.

 

Most importantly

 

The point I was trying to make is that I don't think a ESO is effectively catering to both crowds (groupers and soloers).

Cause it is not possible anymore.  WoW managed to do this because it was:

1. cheap to make  (primitive quests, cheap simple graphical assets,  no cutscenes, no voice overs, initially no mmorpg help tools that are currently expected right from the start,  more bugs due to playerbase in 2004/2005 being more forgiving to them, etc)

2. earning insane amount of money

 

 

Every single AAA MMORPG released in last 5 years or so undergoes very similar scenario.  Lot of people saying it's not solo enough, lot of people wanting title to be more group based,  "virtual worders" complaining that it is not virtual world at all, pvp players complaining that it is not balanced enough, etc

 

Diffrent groups&type of players want diffrent game.   "Effectively catering to both groups(groupers and soloers)." means making two simultaneous games in one game.   With current players expectations and games budgets - not possible anymore.

 

TESO, Wildstar, Rift, GW2, Swtor, TSW, etc  - are all projects that were started in diffrent times, in times of WoTLK in WoW in times of insane growth of western MMORPG market and in times where projected budgets were smaller.     That is why they have design of "cater to all types of players"   - but they are generally struggling to do this.   Becuase like I said - not possible anymore.

 

Take a look @ upcoming MMO&MMORPG games.   You're not seeing much AAA titles with such design like in titles I've mentioned in previous paragraph right?

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The point I was trying to make is that I don't think a ESO is effectively catering to both crowds (groupers and soloers) at end game.

 

There are loads of complaints from people who have reached cap, can't do the veteran content and don't want to group.

 

ESO has been panned by a hell of a lot of the series' huge fan base as they think it is too watered down, don't want to see others on the landscape, group etc. 

 

I like mmos and group content but I also think that companies should respect their established fan base and not disappoint them. Zenimax have disappointed thousands of their loyal customers who thought the game was made for them and are upset to find that the things they love about the series are watered down. I think that was a misstep on their part and could come back to bite them in the arse. If these people are not catered to, they will leave. Many have.

 

It's almost as though the series' fans have had their game stolen from them and I feel for them. 

 

I'm not saying the game shouldn't have group content. I'm all for options.

 

I am saying the game needs end game solo content for people. If it doesn't provide it, watch people leave in droves.

 

People want what they want; it is just the way they are. You can't force people to want to do group content.

 

This is a rather tired scenario don't you think?  No one is forcing people in ESO to do group content.  It was created as optional. 

 

Who knows how much revenue ZoS is seeing from the game so far or what they have planned in terms of other content additions.  But it appears to me very unlikely that they are going to add what you are talking about given the way the game is built.  They seem quite invested in the concept of groups at any rate since it is very obvious that the little bit of polished game content in the game is under that category.

 

As is, I think it has been explained numerous times already that it is simply not possible to do what you are saying in ANY type of MMO these days, let alone this one.  There are likely just not enough hours or dollars left in a day to create a game which has absolutely all for everyone.

 

As for the people leaving in droves, I have been playing since beta and have seen that happen already - it has more to do with the quality issues behind the game and the sub than any solo-vs grp nonesense.  Especially after the first "free" 30 days, lots of players left quick since most ppl just don't want to sub.  They checked out the game for a while and then.. check out, lol.

 

Personally, I am also a long time TES fan since day one of the series yet I never felt the game was "watered down" and the like as you say - but then again I did not go into as some other TES players did expecting it to be TES.  By definitition of its genre (meaning "MMO"...) I knew ESO was going to be a different game so my expectations of it as such were pretty low.  To sub to an MMO and NOT want to see people on the landscape is uh...well... pretty dumb, to say the most kind thing about it.  Soloers who want a co-op situation as Drul mentions are even a contradiction of the concept since again by definition the type of play that would entail is no longer effectively "solo" since it still involves others....

 

I think it is easier to just remember what it is you want from your game time and seek one that offers at least some of it, enjoy, then move on if it isn't fun. Not much esle that can be done. 

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This is a rather tired scenario don't you think?  No one is forcing people in ESO to do group content.  It was created as optional. 

 

It is tired, yes, but especially relevant in a subscription game. When solo players run out of content at end game, they will cancel their subs. Will the game be able to survive that? Will soloers resub for a month when new solo quests are added or not bother?

 

I imagine ESO will end up going free2play.

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I imagine ESO will end up going free2play.

All AAA or near-AAA MMORPGs with game concept like TESO, Wildstar, Rift, Lotro, WoW, Swtor, TSW will end up going free2play.   That game concept is not fit for subscription anymore.

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All AAA or near-AAA MMORPGs with game concept like TESO, Wildstar, Rift, Lotro, WoW, Swtor, TSW will end up going free2play.   That game concept is not fit for subscription anymore.

 

I would just like to point out that - against all odds - TSW is doing just fine after their switch to Buy-to-Play. Population is growing, content coming at a regular pace, things are generally looking up in that game. F2P is no longer a concern for them, I think they have found their model, and it is working well. If Wildstar doesn't cut it on a sub-only model, I could see them going Hybrid Buy-to-Play like TSW did.

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I would just like to point out that - against all odds - TSW is doing just fine after their switch to Buy-to-Play. Population is growing, content coming at a regular pace, things are generally looking up in that game. F2P is no longer a concern for them, I think they have found their model, and it is working well. If Wildstar doesn't cut it on a sub-only model, I could see them going Hybrid Buy-to-Play like TSW did.

I was not talking about doing well or not doing well.   I've simply said that games of a kind I've mentioned does not fit subscription model anymore.

 

As for TSW itself,  for Funcom it was a failure. TSW performance had brought Funcom on a brink of bankrupcy and forced heavy restructurisation and change to company business model (company, not game - I am not talking about p2p, f2p or b2p here).

 

As for TSW performance in it's B2P+DLC+cash shop model:

http://cdn.funcom.com/investor/2014/Funcom_Q12014_presentation.pdf

 

Quote from latest Q1 2014 financial report.

l Revenues  lower than  1Q13 following  a gradual  decrease  of revenues  from  The Secret World after its launch  in July  2012. The revenue  has stabilized  with  a slight  decline  leading  up to 1Q14, and  the trend  continues  in 2014.

 

Revenues from TSW are in downward trend since the beggining.  B2P model did not change overall trend of continous decrease of revenues from TSW.  To make matters worse overall Funcom revenues from all their games are also decreasing. 

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The only review anyone really needs...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3vYM0hzZ2Y

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