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Leafblade

3 Month Review of ESO

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What about those who want to play solo play oh I don't know Skyrim? Don't get me wrong on the whole I play solo or with a friend but there is no way I would expect a MMO to cater mainly for me, they are called MMO's for a reason IMHO.

 

 

PJ

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What about those who want to play solo play oh I don't know Skyrim? Don't get me wrong on the whole I play solo or with a friend but there is no way I would expect a MMO to cater mainly for me, they are called MMO's for a reason IMHO.

 

 

PJ

 

Yeah, that reason being so they can charge you a tenner a month for the pleasure of playing. That's the reason anyone makes an MMO these days. It's basically a gold mine. Otherwise, they could have just made an epic solo world with the option of hosting personal multiplayer servers in them.

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It is tired, yes, but especially relevant in a subscription game. When solo players run out of content at end game, they will cancel their subs. Will the game be able to survive that? Will soloers resub for a month when new solo quests are added or not bother?

 

I imagine ESO will end up going free2play.

 

That's not a new problem, it afflicts every MMO out there, apart from ones that have some sort of player generated content to supplement their content stream. It happens all the time. Look at LOTRO, it has a glacial update schedule long before free2play existed as a popular MMO business model/concept and  its updates were still few and far between. Remember the whole codemasters legal wrangling, EU servers didn't get a content update for about 2/3 - 3/4 of a year it was ridiculous. No new content let alone new solo content there.

 

Stating an MMO will go f2p sometime in the future is like saying the sun will rise and set its bound to happen, apart from the 1-2 exceptions to the genre every other title has this threat looming over it. Because MMO's launch, decline and then change business models over their lifetime. And they all go through this life cycle and general decline (the other notable exception, Eve Online, which also has a life cycle longer than most MMO's).

 

Even though i'm not currently playing ESO, im tired of MMO gameplay and am having far more fun playing sacred 2 and Morrowind currently. What they don't need to do is make lots of rash sweeping changes, its only a couple of months in, let the player base mature and settle down before making any highly controversial changes.

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The only review anyone really needs...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3vYM0hzZ2Y

 

Great stuff !

 

+1

 

 

@Mallorn

 

That review show reasons why TESO will not be able to become TES single player game replacement (+some optional dungeons)  no matter what.   Even if Zenimax would turn everything to solo focused in it.   Same as Swtor is not and can't be Star Wars Knights of Old Republic 3 and could not survive and thrive on tryng to be solo game.

 

TESO chance is in being an MMO and those players who will play it for it's multiplayer aspect are ones who'll be most happy. (until it will eventually fail)

 

 

Yeah, that reason being so they can charge you a tenner a month for the pleasure of playing. That's the reason anyone makes an MMO these days. It's basically a gold mine. Otherwise, they could have just made an epic solo world with the option of hosting personal multiplayer servers in them.

 

Yup.  

 

There is not enough players who really want to play an MMO, but there is a lot of game companies who want to charge players continuesly for playing a game (sub, microtransction, etc) instead of charging a player one time.

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The only review anyone really needs...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3vYM0hzZ2Y

 

Tedious Bullocks online indeed.  LOL!!! Awesome. B)

 

One can always count on you Doro when the chips are down, hehe  +1

Even though i'm not currently playing ESO, im tired of MMO gameplay and am having far more fun playing sacred 2 and Morrowind currently. What they don't need to do is make lots of rash sweeping changes, its only a couple of months in, let the player base mature and settle down before making any highly controversial changes.

 

This is exactly what I see being one of their biggest issues.  During the beta even, there were very drastic nurfs to some of the quest lines and the difficulty levels because of complaints.  Since release they have also done this.  Now they are planning to do it again.  Not exactly the thing I would have liked, considering there are bugs still in the game and bot problems, etc. which never seem to get addressed.  Not exactly exactly encouraging this one here to continue subbing...

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See, the thing is MMOs have ruined single player games for me, I like having other living, breathing, people around me, I like the interaction, the good and the bad. I like being able to troll trolls in game, I can't troll in a single player game unless I give up sanity.  I like helping others, when I feel like it. I like ESO, I hate Skyrim.

 

So anyone see any difference what so ever in the vet content nerf? At VR5 I see, maybe, a slight, eensy, teensy, difference, so maybe it's all in my head.

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It's overrated.

 

and subjective.

So anyone see any difference what so ever in the vet content nerf? At VR5 I see, maybe, a slight, eensy, teensy, difference, so maybe it's all in my head.

 

VR7 seems quite a bit easier but thats still better than after they screwed up the balance after Craglorn in VR areas where 3 landscape mobs in a group meant almost certain death. Also the healers can't outheal you now if you concentrate on taking them down first. Personally I thought VR difficulty was about right when the game launched.

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This is exactly what I see being one of their biggest issues.  During the beta even, there were very drastic nurfs to some of the quest lines and the difficulty levels because of complaints.  Since release they have also done this.  Now they are planning to do it again.  Not exactly the thing I would have liked, considering there are bugs still in the game and bot problems, etc. which never seem to get addressed.  Not exactly exactly encouraging this one here to continue subbing...

This is generally a big problem with MMO(RPG)s overall not TESO in particular imho.

 

Nerfs and changes.

 

I expect stability, consistency, logic and "believability".   That means that there is no nerfs for years and there are no changes unless something is bugged, broken or being exploited. 

 

One of things that made me tired of mmorpg's.

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This is generally a big problem with MMO(RPG)s overall not TESO in particular imho.

 

Nerfs and changes.

 

I expect stability, consistency, logic and "believability".   That means that there is no nerfs for years and there are no changes unless something is bugged, broken or being exploited. 

 

One of things that made me tired of mmorpg's.

 

True.  Not saying it was particular to ESO.  It is however the one "particular" which I am also getting rather sick of fast.  Arriving rather late to this whole MMO thing compared to others here and considering LotrO was my first one, I am now rather sick of the dumbing down stick that seems to keep getting slammed on games I initially liked playing... starting to prefer going back to single player titles until something in this genre changes.... course I am not holding my breath, lol :)

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True.  Not saying it was particular to ESO.  It is however the one "particular" which I am also getting rather sick of fast.  Arriving rather late to this whole MMO thing compared to others here and considering LotrO was my first one, I am now rather sick of the dumbing down stick that seems to keep getting slammed on games I initially liked playing... starting to prefer going back to single player titles until something in this genre changes.... course I am not holding my breath, lol :)

 

I've been thinking hard about this, talking to other guild members, and I think I'm becoming more understanding.

 

I agree with what you say, but in the case of ESO especially ,. I don't blame any of the players demanding easier content or demanding solo content.

 

Look at Lotro, they made it F2P, aimed at the facebook crowed and many are happy with what they have. Sure I cant believe the game can survive (well they can tick over for years, I cant imagine too much investment) and lost many many players in the progress.

 

But along comes ESO and this is aimed at two very different player groups (and obviously some people fall into both groups) and there is also a 3rd group.

 

The TES fan that is used to a single player RPG where they can use whatever's provided in game and do all content.

 

The traditional MMO fan that likes really hard challenging content, likes to have to think before they run in and likes not being able to spam any old skill and survive. They like to have hard challenges and to be properly rewarded for such challenges.

 

And you have the mmo fan thats come from the facebook crowd that likes mmos, but likes to solo 99.999% of the time, thinks every single part of the game should be doable solo, thinks solo players should get exactly the same reward as those doing the most challenging content, thinks they should be able to slot whatever skills they like and never having to worry about dying.

 

None of the 3 above groups are wrong, each group has their own idea of what they consider fun and just because you or me might have a different view, that doesn't make their views wrong at all. The last group would probably have never got off the ground if other mmos hadn't so readily catered to them, they would have given mmos a try, decided it wasn't for them, and moved on, but as mmos have catered for them, it's no real surprise when they go to another mmo and expect the same.

 

ESO is trying to please the first two groups and both groups  are in general so different in their play style that it's simply not currently working.  And of course by its very nature,  the 3rd group  will naturally come in on the RPGs side in any debate.

 

ESO was in my opinion far far far too easy level 1 - 49, I did find the last few levels in Coldharbour a bit more of a challenge than most of the others, but still nothing to write home about..

 

Another big problem level 1 - 49 was that if you explored etc you easily out levelled areas (opening one of the lock picking chests gives you about 1% of a levels xp, if you open 100 you will have gained an entire level).. And that is if you spend no time at all in PvP. You might get a lot less XP in PvP but you still get some, hence players like me who spend a couple of evenings a week there, out level the PvE area even quicker.

 

The end result is, ratter than it getting more challenging the more you level, 1-49 actually gets easier and easier for most players. You don't really need to know how to block, how do dodge, you never have to interrupt.

 

There's also zero need to group up. Well there's  one group dungeon in each zone but ignoring that doesn't stop your progression at all., Everything else can be done solo, even anchors while you need other players, there's always other players around, so you still don't actually need to group.

 

And then you finish level 49 and bam your vet level 1, and it does matter what skills you use, you do need to block, dodge, interrupt, you might have to swap certain skills depending on the mobs etc.

 

And at vet 1 (pre the nerf this week) many classes are so unbalanced that it was almost impossible for most to survive solo, I did a complete respec, changed my bow for a res staff and became a vamp, just so that I could do vet content. And yes I could easily do it pre nerf, but I did have a really good sorc build that I found on the internet.

 

Zenimax then released vet content only for groups and raised the NPCs in PvP to vet 5

 

No content aimed at the RPG crowd has been released yet for vet players, so their only choice is to do the two other alliances or group up and go to Craglorn.

 

Many of the RPG and the facebook mmo crowd are so against having to group up it's a non starter. Sure most of you, like me, see grouping as part of an mmo. But those players see an mmo as somewhere where there's loads of other real life people, they can group occasionally if they want to, but they don't have to group to do content.

 

And pre nerf, they had no choice, Most builds you couldn't do vet 1 content and survive if you were an average player at all. I'm not the best player but I'm not the worst either, I survived in many raids and they were happy to invite me back for more (when Lotro was good) and I really struggled with vet 1 until I respeced.

 

Infact I farmed magical anomalies in Craglorn before it was fixed to raise myself to vet 3 and it was still very very hard before my respec,

 

My point being, if I was having that much difficulty and I'm used to mmos, someone not used to them, someone used to selecting what ever skills they want and being able to plough through content solo, is obviously going to feel completely out of their depth and overwhelmed..

 

And I do't blame them for that.

 

Had the game got harder rather than easier 1 - 49, had they say made it still soloable but once at level 15+ mob fights encouraged block, interrupt etc, and mobs were placed that you had no choice but interrupt, easy at first but as the game progressed, harder and harder, had the game put up tips regarding certain mobs ("this mob can be killed quicker and easier with a silver bullet"), then that would have encouraged those other players to try changing and experimenting.

 

But letting them walk through 1 - 49, I am not surprised in the slightest they all complained when they suddenly hit vet content, and had I not been used to mmos, I would have been too.

 

Vet content needed addressing badly

 

However all that said, just decreasing difficulty on the other two vet alliances rather than sorting out class balance wasn't the correct way forward. My vamp/res sorc can now literally face roll most of the content there but I'm sure my previous build would now find it a nice challenge.  So in letting the classes/skills that couldn't do it before, now do it, in the process they have ruined it for the ones that could.

 

I also do't think that difficulty is why they had so many complaints, sure it's why they had some, but the whole thing needs a good rethink which I believe they are announcing more on  at quakecon

 

I don't want to invest my time in ESO if every few months they are going to dumb down something else to cater just for the RPG/facebook crowd. I'm happy if they cater for both groups, history has shown us though that this is rarely the case.

 

On the other hand they only fairly recently upped the NPCs to vet 5 in PvP and on the PTS 1.3 patch notes  they announced 

 

 

  • We added a new and optional difficulty mode for the final fight in Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel. Look for clues near each Celestial to find out how to trigger this new mode. When you complete the difficult version of a Trial, you will be rewarded with a piece of armor from an upgraded version of the Mage, Serpent, or Warrior Item Sets which contain better stats and visuals. The colors in this set are exclusive to this armor, and cannot be duplicated with dyes.

So I'm holding my breath for now, it could end up a really good game with really good content for the more hardcore mmo fan, it could end up easy mode. I think it's too early to tell.

 

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I also do't think that difficulty is why they had so many complaints, sure it's why they had some, but the whole thing needs a good rethink which I believe they are announcing more on  at quakecon

 

 

The reason for a lot of the complaints in my opinion was the Craglorn update had a knock on effect into the existing VR areas making many mobs much harder overnight. Up until that point I was doing fine on VR6, yes I had to alter my build occasionally and there were some boss/elite fights that had me tearing my hair out but I got them down eventually by experimenting with builds and tactics. Post Craglorn 3 landscape mobs in a group became a 50/50 chance of death, Zenimax said they fixed this but from what I could tell didn't actually fix it for another 2 weeks. I'd guess this was the period when most of the complaints about difficulty occured. I just stopped playing for a month as it just became incredibly tedious to level. So for me the VR went from about right to frustratingly difficult (where 3 ranged mobs split making it almost impossible to dodge/interrupt all their suddenly overbuffed attacks), briefly back to about right and now as Tribulation says faceroll.

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Not sure what your builds were or how you were each approaching the content, but I had the opposite experience and several people in my guild were in the same boat.  Maybe because we were already min-maxing out our gear and builds since when Craglorn hit were were already hitting VR5-6 and had been working at beating the vet level dungeons which at VR1 had handed us our asses.  As I mentioned, we went out there thinking we would get destroyed and were actually rolling through dailies and the dungeons there very easily when that stuff was supposed to be a VR10 challenge at launch.  Soloing stuff was merely a question of having enough room to not back into another group of 3-4 mobs, especially those fucking crocks out there or the wasp nests which loved to annhialate the unsuspecting if you hit one by mistake, lol.   Given space to do your thing, they were done.  After the nurfs even more so.  Either way, the drop in difficulty was very, VERY noticable and this just makes it worse.  If they have amped up AA and Citadel,  I would be surprised if what they are referring to isn't just more hitpoints since that seems to be their patten when they  "adjust" something.  Yawwn if you ask me.

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Not sure what your builds were or how you were each approaching the content, but I had the opposite experience and several people in my guild were in the same boat.  Maybe because we were already min-maxing out our gear and builds since when Craglorn hit were were already hitting VR5-6 and had been working at beating the vet level dungeons which at VR1 had handed us our asses.  As I mentioned, we went out there thinking we would get destroyed and were actually rolling through dailies and the dungeons there very easily when that stuff was supposed to be a VR10 challenge at launch.  Soloing stuff was merely a question of having enough room to not back into another group of 3-4 mobs, especially those fucking crocks out there or the wasp nests which loved to annhialate the unsuspecting if you hit one by mistake, lol.   Given space to do your thing, they were done.  After the nurfs even more so.  Either way, the drop in difficulty was very, VERY noticable and this just makes it worse.  If they have amped up AA and Citadel,  I would be surprised if what they are referring to isn't just more hitpoints since that seems to be their patten when they  "adjust" something.  Yawwn if you ask me.

 

I wasn't referring to Craglorn but to the other Alliances VR areas (1-10) were adversely affected. I haven't done Craglorn yet but I know a lot of people were grinding VR points solo there at one point as it was easier than trying to level in the other alliances areas.

 

My main build is a Templar with is either sword and board or 2 handed axe as one weapon set and healing staff as 2nd set using 5 pieces Heavy armour (heavy on Magicka buffs) and 2 pieces of light armour. Like Tribulation I have raided in most games I have played and while not an obsessive min/maxer I'd like to think I have a reasonable grasp of workable builds and tactics. The only time I had a real issue was in the VR5 and VR6 areas for the 3 or 4 weeks after Craglorn launched where as others have said on TESO forums missing one dodge or failing to interupt a landscape mob could pretty much knock off two third of your health which isn't good if you're also still fighting two other mobs.

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I wasn't referring to Craglorn but to the other Alliances VR areas (1-10) were adversely affected. I haven't done Craglorn yet but I know a lot of people were grinding VR points solo there at one point as it was easier than trying to level in the other alliances areas.

 

Craglorn WAS and IS too easy and that was the mistake they made.  Which is why my guildies and I went for our zone completions to begin with once we saw what was going on.  I don't think it was a mistake to increase mob challenges across vet zones, quite the opposite I think it was very much needed - but people bitched they ddn't want that.  I disagree.  Leveling vet ranks got extremely boring, often tedious, very quickly and the least thing that was making some of it worthwhile for a time for me was the possibility of being challenged on simple quests.  They took that away and just made it faceroll.  I don't think that was wise.  But then I am also one of those people that did not think it was ok to allow people to stand around and farm anomalies all day for xp...  there is clearly a balancing problem in this game and nowhere is it better seen that in the lack of proper scaling of the three faction zone quests to vet level contest.  They should have made different content period, content worthy of the time it took us all to get to vr to begin with.  As is, they are just recycling resources and playing with the numbers.... gee, where have we seen that before...? 

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I don't think it was a mistake to increase mob challenges across vet zones, quite the opposite I think it was very much needed - but people bitched they ddn't want that.  I disagree. 

 

There is a difference however between ramping up difficulty and basically forced grouping to complete basic enviroment quests which is for many players what they saw the "accidental" difficulty ramp after the Craglorn Update as. I am perfectly happy to have to group for world bosses, public dungeons, Dolmens, etc in te landscape. I don't want to have to find a group to play if I fancy a quick hour before I go to work in the morning. Thats as I said why I just stopped playing for a month as I do like the game but it just stopped been fun, I like doing landscape quests solo, I like to listen to the NPC questgivers, I don't want to rush through to keep up with others in group (same used to annoy me in SWTOR).

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There is a difference however between ramping up difficulty and basically forced grouping to complete basic enviroment quests which is for many players what they saw the "accidental" difficulty ramp after the Craglorn Update as. I am perfectly happy to have to group for world bosses, public dungeons, Dolmens, etc in te landscape. I don't want to have to find a group to play if I fancy a quick hour before I go to work in the morning. Thats as I said why I just stopped playing for a month as I do like the game but it just stopped been fun, I like doing landscape quests solo, I like to listen to the NPC questgivers, I don't want to rush through to keep up with others in group (same used to annoy me in SWTOR).

 

Then we just had very different experiences.  I did not group to do the quests.  I grouped with guildies to do dungeons and group instances, which I enjoyed far more anyways.  At this point it is mute anyhow since they are making it even easier and grouping will probably be ditched altogether save for dungeons - assuming they keep those going...

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