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Aaron Campbell's Producer's Letter (U14)

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The Beorning "class" is an abomination.

When I said that on the other forums in response to the last Producer's Letter, I got a 2-point infraction for "Trolling: Moderate". But it's still true.

 

That's a mistake to be honest, there is fuck all else to do anymore but level. Not sure why we need time to invest in our characters when there is nothing to invest in them for.

Rep grind for cosmetic pets. Duh.

But, yeah, the only end-game content is levelling to the next level cap. So they've taken *that* away now...

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I think Turbine has a comprehension problem. Yes, they listened to player feedback, but they fail to comprehend what was presented to them. I like the idea of setting an LI to Imbued, locking in its abilities and allowing it to then gain experience and level alongside the character, but this should not be available at level 100, but as soon as one starts into the LI system. That would allow a player to lock in an LI early on, then change out to another LI to Imbue if they so chose (for example, if they came across a 1st Age LI). Doing it at Level 100 defeat the purpose entirely.

 

But it does appear that Campbell and his crew are trying to please the masses, as best they can, with what limited funds they have available. That is something worth nothing at least.

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I think Turbine has a comprehension problem. Yes, they listened to player feedback, but they fail to comprehend what was presented to them. I like the idea of setting an LI to Imbued, locking in its abilities and allowing it to then gain experience and level alongside the character, but this should not be available at level 100, but as soon as one starts into the LI system. That would allow a player to lock in an LI early on, then change out to another LI to Imbue if they so chose (for example, if they came across a 1st Age LI). Doing it at Level 100 defeat the purpose entirely.

 

But it does appear that Campbell and his crew are trying to please the masses, as best they can, with what limited funds they have available. That is something worth nothing at least.

 

That would make more sense, certainly.  Replace 50 levels of grind and replace with a system that would make people happy, instead of tacking it on at the very end when it's not really needed anymore.

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That would make more sense, certainly.  Replace 50 levels of grind and replace with a system that would make people happy, instead of tacking it on at the very end when it's not really needed anymore.

But also more work. They would need to figure out how every LI with an equippable level from 50 to 100 would scale up in DPS and some of the legacies. For every legacy rank. For three rarities. With those LI's not having been designed with that sort of scaling in mind, there would undoubtedly be weirdness. (A level 72 imbued Moria LI might be vastly better or vastly worse than a level 72 RoI LI, etc).

What they've done is the lazy solution.

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I think Turbine has a comprehension problem. Yes, they listened to player feedback, but they fail to comprehend what was presented to them. I like the idea of setting an LI to Imbued, locking in its abilities and allowing it to then gain experience and level alongside the character, but this should not be available at level 100, but as soon as one starts into the LI system. That would allow a player to lock in an LI early on, then change out to another LI to Imbue if they so chose (for example, if they came across a 1st Age LI). Doing it at Level 100 defeat the purpose entirely.

 

But it does appear that Campbell and his crew are trying to please the masses, as best they can, with what limited funds they have available. That is something worth nothing at least.

 

I agree that Campbell is certainly trying as opposed to his predecessor and certain others. As you said, it seems he is doing what he can with what he has. The only problem I see is that they still seem to continue with the whole "introduce something great alongside a head scratcher" philosophy. 

 

The main issue people had with the level increase was the constant need to upgrade and grind for their L.I. By fixing (remains to be seen) this issue, the level cap increase doesn't seem so bad. But then, they announce no level cap increase on top of that. WTF? And, you start at level 100? You give players the method to finally have an LI that "can grow with you" but you don't get it until your at cap where it doesn't even matter because there are no levels. Maybe I just misunderstood. What they need to do is implement this system from 75, or even 50, on retroactively.

 

As far as Beornings go; I'd only be happy if they were scrapped altogether and forgotten about like that one girl from Spring Break that looked like Kate Beckinsale at night and Smeagol when you woke up next to her in the morning. Repress that memory. It should not exist and never should have happened.  

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Third, the Beorning class will start at Level 1 (rather than Level 50). The class will be able to level fully through the early areas of Eriador, and will include its own starting experience.

 

A bit surprised here, since giving people a class that's halfway through the game and closer to level cap would mean players need to buy expansions soon. 

 

 

That's a mistake to be honest, there is fuck all else to do anymore but level. Not sure why we need time to invest in our characters when there is nothing to invest in them for.

 

You forgot that starting with another character from scratch again and again and again, is all lotro's new target audience wants ... and that's exactly what turdbine gives them.

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What, Dead Marshes will only be a session play?

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I think Turbine has a comprehension problem. Yes, they listened to player feedback, but they fail to comprehend what was presented to them. I like the idea of setting an LI to Imbued, locking in its abilities and allowing it to then gain experience and level alongside the character, but this should not be available at level 100, but as soon as one starts into the LI system. That would allow a player to lock in an LI early on, then change out to another LI to Imbue if they so chose (for example, if they came across a 1st Age LI). Doing it at Level 100 defeat the purpose entirely.

 

But it does appear that Campbell and his crew are trying to please the masses, as best they can, with what limited funds they have available. That is something worth nothing at least.

Yes on both counts.

I really would have liked something to be done about my particular situation, where of course I generalize and claim I am not the only one in this wedgelock.

My highest level character is far away from level cap by now, having played very little in many months (more than a year). Although deeply in LI levels. Every time I log in I have this very annoying sub-game around LIs to play, not to mention I tend to forget what I optimize the LI for in the first place. I would be perfectly happy to just enjoy the leveling and epic storyline but there is too much "homework" getting in the way, I made a larger post elsewhere about what an evening looks like when I manage to log in - NOT FUN.

In addition to that, due to changes to the game (that I didn't like but that's water under the bridge) I would actually prefer to stop this particular character and bring up a different one. But the other characters are through the fun part of the game and there is a lot of LI work that I would have to do all over again if I decided to go this route. It doesn't help that due to the braindead inventory system's inability to manage LIs I trashed most LIs I found, which will bite me when I switch characters.

It would have been infinitely better if a fix for the LI system could have been found that kicks in much earlier than level 100 (out of 95 right now). I would even have accepted that those smooth experience new LIs are a bit less powerful than the existing system ones (so that you don't invalidate people's past investments into the insanity). My characters are overpowered anyway and by the time I would reach top level it would be the same for everybody again.

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I suspect the reason for the LI changes being at level 100 is to stop players from getting a first age from Moria, which should be very trivial at level 100, and just leveling that up and thus making all 3rd and 2nd age LI's disappear 

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Here's a question that would be ban-worthy - if less than 10% of the player base has ever grouped, what percentage of players actually have level capped toons that could take advantage of this new LI feature?  

 

Seems to me like they're trying to fix a system by artificially forcing players to get to the current cap, only to raise it early next year and force a new grind.

 

Granted, I have to admit - I do like that Turbine is actually talking to players and not just walking in the blind.

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Here's a question that would be ban-worthy - if less than 10% of the player base has ever grouped, what percentage of players actually have level capped toons that could take advantage of this new LI feature?

I'm wondering about that, too. How many active players have top level characters?

I can't imagine my experience is unique. I'm trying to level just so that I can finish the storyline and "just because". But some intermediate regions are not much fun, which leads to less play time. Less play time leads to a higher amount of homework compared to gameplay, making it less fun, less time spent, even slower leveling, more homework (relative). Vicious circle.

Crafting has also broken down completely which isn't good for supplies to level a bit faster in those regions you just want to get through.

At the same time leveling in the more fun places is ridiculously fast and makes the game almost non-existing. What are these guys optimizing for?

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I'm largely ambivalent about what AC posted. Comes across as too little, too late, regardless of the intentions.

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I'm wondering about that, too. How many active players have top level characters?

 

 

I would guess there are very few level 100 characters today :P

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I think Turbine has a comprehension problem. Yes, they listened to player feedback, but they fail to comprehend what was presented to them. I like the idea of setting an LI to Imbued, locking in its abilities and allowing it to then gain experience and level alongside the character, but this should not be available at level 100, but as soon as one starts into the LI system. That would allow a player to lock in an LI early on, then change out to another LI to Imbue if they so chose (for example, if they came across a 1st Age LI). Doing it at Level 100 defeat the purpose entirely.

 

But it does appear that Campbell and his crew are trying to please the masses, as best they can, with what limited funds they have available. That is something worth nothing at least.

 

Also to my mind the people who have left over the years due to in large part the LI grind would imho be more likely to drop back in if it was the whole LI system.  Now depending on when they left to come back they still need to grind out how ever many LI teirs to get to the "magic" lvl 100 witch is something of a barrier to re-entry for the people who left because they hated it to begin with.    The people who were staying in game were already tolerating the LI system, after 5+ years I think it's safe to assume the remaining population weren't going to leave over it.

 

As well I've never been a fan of hybrid progression systems: this level range it does this, this range that, this one something else.  Not exactly something that screams come on in.  Was there a reason it needed the added complication of an arbitrary 100 level req?  Perhaps Campbell and crew should have ground out legitimately several tiers of LI's through normal play, I suspect their ultimate solution would have appeared more logical if this is based purely on feedback without understanding the core issues people had with the LI system.  Considering they are aiming for the angry bird demographic why make it more complicated?

 

The only thing that springs to mind as a reason is either A a store tie in somehow at lvl 100 to "peminalize" it

or B so they can give themselves some more time and have it cooking on the back burner till whenever the next level cap is and it actually matters.  Paired with leaving off the 2nd lvl cap raise and the obvious lack of dev resources I suspect B

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Well the Beorn at level 1 helps sell not only the class but the gift of the valar separately. 

I predicted the level cap thing.  "listening to the players"

LI's?   Maybe years too late.  "Also listening to the players" after most of them are gone lol.

Which majority were they hoping to please?   The 7 people complaining about a level 50 Beorn and the 15 who felt you needed to stop levels to do what exactly? About the LI's it's a nice idea but once again much too late.

 

Nice try Aaron but you can't fool quinn

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I didn't feel anything besides the briefest amusement while reading his collection of words. That is probably a good thing at this point.

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I never played much of Freepside because the LI weapon system was so terrible.

I don't like systems that are designed to waste time instead of being designed to be fun.

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Bah, that doesn't help me with LI's at all. It does nothing to make it better playing my lower level characters.

 

Do people really believe this crap - that this is an improvement to the LI system? What happened to "it's not about end game" and all the people who play characters not at level 100 yet? This does nothing for them.

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Seems like this change for LI's is only the start.

 

One specific note I've heard from multiple players, and we're working to address... the comment goes something like this.

"Every time there is a level cap, I have to destroy my legendary item and then put in hours of time and energy to create an item exactly like the one I just deconstructed."
The last part of that statement was especially disturbing to me, and to Hoarsedev (Lead Systems Designer).

The primary point of this LI update is to stop the condition you see above - find an item you like, lock in its attributes, and continue to advance it as it continues to earn experience.

After that, we have many potential goals for LI. For example, we'd like to connect it more closely to the content you complete (finishing content, or challenges helps you advance the item in specific ways). We want to make the items distinct and potentially more powerful (possibly by identifying new legacies that can only be applied after an item is imbued). These two features could be complementary.

These additional ideas are still in planning (no specific timeline). My goal for today was to let you know about the first step, which you'll see in Update 15.

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?&postid=7201374#post7201374

 

 

If done right this could be interesting.

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It'll be good if they do that right, but how the fuck did it take them so long time to realize that was a problem? It has always been a problem ever since Mirkwood came out and people were starting all over again. The only combobreakers have been when legacies and/or traits were changed.

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I wonder how much of this idea is new and how much is from the 2nd half of the LI revamp that we never got and was canned

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Seems like this change for LI's is only the start.

 

 

 

 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?&postid=7201374#post7201374

 

 

If done right this could be interesting.

 

But again, far too late.  At this point, if you can complete all of the new content with a dodgy third age that you've half-heartedly leveled without slotting any relics in it, what does it matter anymore?

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If there is more to this addition to LI's than now presented: I will believe it when I see it.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how well this gear 'with essences' at level 100 compares to level 95 guilded armour.

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Yeah I think I found a better way to express what I think about the changes.

Sure they are in the right direction.

But they don't help anybody having more fun in those dreadful levels with half-baked content, bad voice acting, the LI madness at its height and a couple other "homework" style items.

And I am confident I am not the only one who is quite literally stuck, willing to play some more, but not at top level, no groups for high-mids levels to be found, willing to go through some boring content, but not if there is constant harassment from secondary game systems. Which break immersion, too.

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