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I regret to announce that this is the END: LoTRO officially in maintenance mode


AgamemnonV1
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The screenshots from the "new" armour made me speechless ...

 

However, lotro entered maintenance the day HD launched and not just yet (or in case you've joined the beta: lotro died with the sapience "stfu we don't listen to your damn feedback" post)

 

This I agree with, HD being the beginning of MMode.   All you have to do is look at various mmo/game sites, goto their LOTRO archives and tally-up ppm pre-HD usually in the 30-40 to several hundred/day depending on site, to post HD.  Lotro ppm fell off a cliff within weeks across the industry to the point on most sites do well generating 10-20 posts per month.  Quite often with one guy bump responding to his own posts with even quotes and side commentary.

 

they did get short blips with the MalP/Sap dynamic duo week,  a couple broke 30 posts that week.

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I'm guessing this is the "disturbed by players reactions" statement that got turned into "shocked" and now apparently means "have no clue how the system works"?

Yes, it has never been this obvious that Turbine has nobody left who actually plays the game to the degree where they could notice what's wrong with LIs.

And it's not that you need them in solo, witness the youtube video from the other thread where a top level mob beat himself to death on the armor of a not top level player.

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Or of course he's been at a different game for years now, came and took over LotRO, announced 2 level cap increases which once again stirred the LI pot and people posting their dissatisfaction, so he pulled back the second level cap change and announced a rework of the LI System that sounds like it will decrease the grind, enable people to choose to keep their LI or remake them as they wish.

 

Yea, what a bastard, his solution shows a complete lack of understanding the system. 

 

EDIT: Or is it that he's guilty of the former E.P.'s lack of fixing the system.

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He said he and the lead system designer were (quoting from memory) 'very disturbed' by statements accurately describing the way the LI system has worked for 5+ years...

Personally, I think they understood perfectly well how everything worked, and are just pretending it was all a terrible, terrible mistake/oversight...

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Hey guys. I know it's been forever since I've been part of this community, but I figured you would like to see my final words on LotRO.

 

http://agdom.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/i-regret-to-announce-that-this-is-the-end-lotro-officially-in-maintenance-mode/

Wow that is so great. I love the imgur gallery. If anyone follows this link, don't miss that!

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He said he and the lead system designer were (quoting from memory) 'very disturbed' by statements accurately describing the way the LI system has worked for 5+ years...

Personally, I think they understood perfectly well how everything worked, and are just pretending it was all a terrible, terrible mistake/oversight...

 

That could be. All I'm saying is he hasn't ignored it for years and now that the issue raised it's head under his lead, he's taking steps to change it.

 

I'd be disturbed too if I took over a game and found this as an issue. That doesn't make me shocked or not understanding the system. LotRO has plenty of faults, and pointing them out is one thing. Evolving peoples statements to mean something totally different isn't cool. Both good and bad things should be able to stand on their own without exaggeration, if they can't, the opinion is weak and biased.

 

But again with no real content at endgame it matters little. People like me will eventually bother to get a lvl 100 FA, Imbue it and then go back to other games and wait to see if anything we like gets squeezed in.

 

 

EDIT: PS. I liked the gallery and post, maybe a bit harsh in some areas in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there.

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I'm guessing this is the "disturbed by players reactions" statement that got turned into "shocked" and now apparently means "have no clue how the system works"?

 

But their statement showed they were not familiar with the LI system they way someone who played the game would be. They could have said "yes, we know it needs improvements" instead of "we were sorry to hear about these problems". They made a mistake in admitting they did not know about them until recently.

 

The LI systems is arguably one of the major flaws in the game, and the executive producer and lead designer did not know that. It doesn't look good.

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But their statement showed they were not familiar with the LI system they way someone who played the game would be. They could have said "yes, we know it needs improvements" instead of "we were sorry to hear about these problems". They made a mistake in admitting they did not know about them until recently.

 

The assumption is that everyone doesn't like the system, and I don't buy that. I'd agree that a majority of the players don't like it, but how do we know that it was an issue for them?

 

The LI system for one character isn't overly terrible, to me, but having had 6 raid ready toons it became simply horrible.

 

I'd guess that they play LotRO, but I doubt that they play at a high level for the most part. Having owned a CCG Store and having first hand knowledge of how making your hobby also your job can be problematic, I can thoroughly see them as casual players. When you make your full blown hobby your full time job it's easy to begin resenting both and drawing away from one or both aspects. 

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The assumption is that everyone doesn't like the system, and I don't buy that. I'd agree that a majority of the players don't like it, but how do we know that it was an issue for them?

 

The LI system for one character isn't overly terrible, to me, but having had 6 raid ready toons it became simply horrible.

 

I'd guess that they play LotRO, but I doubt that they play at a high level for the most part. Having owned a CCG Store and having first hand knowledge of how making your hobby also your job, I can thoroughly see them as casual players. When you make your full blown hobby your full time job it's easy to begin resenting both and drawing away from one or both aspects. 

 

So you don't find anything wrong with LIs, or find them grindy? Objectively, if you had an expert panel study this for a year, I am pretty sure they would recommend drastically changing the LI system because it reduces the fun of the game. I can't take it seriously that it's fine because some people like it. Maybe they don't mind LIs, but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved or is not a bad system.

 

This is their job - to know the state of the game. It's like you had a store with only 3 games in it, and you are making the games! You have a large staff working full time to make those 3 games. And then the top 2 people in charge of one game do not know something basic about that game. It is nothing at all like a shop owner not knowing the details of one unimportant game out of hundreds they sell.

 

It doesn't matter if they are casual players or not. It is their JOB to know the state of the game, and to know about major flaws in the game that are repeatedly brought up by players.

 

Sure, you can live with the LI system, or not care about the bad deisgn and hours spent in grind and setting/resetting LI's & comparing LIs & selling extra LIs. But that does not make it a system that is not majorly flawed.

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To be fair, if LIs had been what was promised, it would've been an epic system. Sadly, Steefel couldn't deliver on that. It has flaws as is, and they're trying to do something about it, which I don't think should be criticized. Rowan has been Executive Producer since February and inherited a lot of Kate Paiz promises.

 

The fact that they've recognized LI's need to change is a considerable improvement over what we had with Kate Paiz.


So you don't find anything wrong with LIs, or find them grindy? Objectively, if you had an expert panel study this for a year, I am pretty sure they would recommend drastically changing the LI system because it reduces the fun of the game. I can't take it seriously that it's fine because some people like it. Maybe they don't mind LIs, but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved or is not a bad system.

 

This is their job - to know the state of the game. It's like you had a store with only 3 games in it, and you are making the games! You have a large staff working full time to make those 3 games. And then the top 2 people in charge of one game do not know something basic about that game. It is nothing at all like a shop owner not knowing the details of one unimportant game out of hundreds they sell.

 

It doesn't matter if they are casual players or not. It is their JOB to know the state of the game, and to know about major flaws in the game that are repeatedly brought up by players.

 

Sure, you can live with the LI system, or not care about the bad deisgn and hours spend in grind and setting/resetting LI's/comparing LIs/selling LIs. But that does not make it a system that is not majorly flawed.

 

You didn't read what he said. He said that to him, it became simply horrible.

How is that not finding anything wrong with the system?

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So you don't find anything wrong with LIs, or find them grindy? Objectively, if you had an expert panel study this for a year, I am pretty sure they would recommend drastically changing the LI system because it reduces the fun of the game. I can't take it seriously that some people like it. Maybe don't mind, but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved or is not a bad system.

 

This is their job - to know the state of the game. It's like you had a store with 3 games in it, and you are making the games. You have a large staff making those 3 games. And the top 2 people in charge of one game do not know something basic about the game.

 

It doesn't matter if they are casual players or not. It is their JOB to know the state of the game, and to know about major flaws in the game that are repeatedly brought up by players.

 

Sure, you can live with the LI system, or not care about the bad deisgn and hours spend in grind and setting/resetting LI's/comparing LIs/selling LIs. But that does not make it a system that is not majorly flawed.

 

Well first off I said it was horrible with multiple toons, but it wasn't terrible with one, for me. So I'm not clear on how you'd think I thought there no problems or grind to the LI system. It simply isn't what I said.

 

Second off, I'm saying that it is only recently his problem to deal with and that when the issue came up, under his watch, he began steps to fix it. I fail to see that as him not understanding.

To be fair, if LIs had been what was promised, it would've been an epic system. Sadly, Steefel couldn't deliver on that. It has flaws as is, and they're trying to do something about it, which I don't think should be criticized. Rowan has been Executive Producer since February and inherited a lot of Kate Paiz promises.

 

The fact that they've recognized LI's need to change is a considerable improvement over what we had with Kate Paiz.

 

You didn't read what he said. He said that to him, it became simply horrible.

How is that not finding anything wrong with the system?

 

My thoughts too.

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It has flaws as is, and they're trying to do something about it, which I don't think should be criticized. Rowan has been Executive Producer since February and inherited a lot of Kate Paiz promises.

 

We don't have any evidence they will change LI's for levels under 100. So you have a terrible system, no work to change that system for levels under 100. With Turbine's track record, and the obvious lack of money to improve anything in the game, I would not be surprised at all if they never fix the issues for the lower levels.

Second off, I'm saying that it is only recently his problem to deal with and that when the issue came up, under his watch, he began steps to fix it. I fail to see that as him not understanding.

 

I can't buy this. How many months has been been working on Lotro? How long would it take you, in that position, to learn about the major flaws and issues players are facing in the game? A day, or two? Seriously, not knowing about the game you are producer of for many months is not professional by any means. 

 

Sure, his priorities may have been elsewhere, but as Executive Producer you should know the state of the game and the top 5 problems in the game. He could easily looked at feedback from players and seen that the LI system is a major negative in the game.

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Rowan said it was a first step. I would hope they mean to follow-up with further steps, in order to truly make it what was promised by Steefel! (I still remember when he was the Devil!)

 

My hope is that if it's well-received, it'll be implemented further(like I said, provided it works like it should).

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We don't have any evidence they will change LI's for levels under 100. So you have a terrible system, no work to change that system for levels under 100. With Turbine's track record, and the obvious lack of money to improve anything in the game, I would not be surprised at all if they never fix the issues for the lower levels.

 

Wouldn't surprise me either. It makes sense to start the change at cap though. Much of the Moria and after stuff revolves around the LI System, Vendors etc. It will take a bit more to go back then starting now.

 

Turbine's track record of not fully implementing systems is pretty vast, no argument there. While LotRO's content has caused me to leave, I do think Rowan has been direct and come through on everything he's said he'd do, that is solely his projects. So I really can't say for certain if this will be more of the same o' same o' or if they'll actually follow through and revamp system at all levels, so far he's taking a we'll see approach.

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Sounds good. Just to be clear, they IN NO WAY said they would ever change anything about the LI system for levels under 100. We just got some vague general statements about doing more. It could very well be they just make more changes for levels over 100.

 

Now if Rowan actually said they would change the system for levels under 100, then I would be quiet and just hope he fulfills this promise. Unfortunately all we got was some vague general statement they want to do more.

 

And, it is pretty telling they made a change to LIs that does nothing for any character under 100. It is just as bad as it always has been. BTW, the LI system is the one thing that is preventing me from going back to Lotro. I just don't want to spend hours on it - even for my one character.

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Yeah, I mean, I always thought, and will continue to think, things like the Hobby system should've had more hobbies added to them.

When did we get fishing in game. wasn't it around Forochel?

Sadly, Housing is on that list too. I really do wish that it would've been possible to do that the way most of us would've wanted.

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This is their job - to know the state of the game. It's like you had a store with only 3 games in it, and you are making the games! You have a large staff working full time to make those 3 games. And then the top 2 people in charge of one game do not know something basic about that game. It is nothing at all like a shop owner not knowing the details of one unimportant game out of hundreds they sell.

 

It doesn't matter if they are casual players or not. It is their JOB to know the state of the game, and to know about major flaws in the game that are repeatedly brought up by players.

It is both remarkable and depressing to watch live interviews with WoW devs. Some hard-core player will ask one of them an obscure question about an obscure mechanic, and the dev will launch into a detailed impromptu lecture about the history of the mechanic, and how it came to be the way it is, and by the end it is obvious that the dev's knowledge of how different parts of the game interact is incomparably greater than even the most hard-core player's (as it should be...).

I used to get a similar impression back in Moria/Mirkwood when GraalX2 would post something about Wardens, or Zombie Columbus would post something about RK's.

But more recently, it has become painful to read anything written by the LotRO devs interns. They are in completely over their heads.

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Hey guys. I know it's been forever since I've been part of this community, but I figured you would like to see my final words on LotRO.

 

http://agdom.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/i-regret-to-announce-that-this-is-the-end-lotro-officially-in-maintenance-mode/

 

Everyone seems so concerned about asset reuse in Dol Amroth, but the more egregious reuse is in Edhellond. They literally pasted buildings from Celondim & Rivendell, and then wrapped them in vines to make them look old. I also think it's rather compact for a city that was once a center of Elven culture.

 

I expected architecture more similar to Echad Mirobel, with some Numenorean influences, but it's just the same thing we've seen in the past. And frankly, I was someone disappointed with the architecture in Celondim & Rivendell. I have always thought Elven buildings should be somehow light & soaring. Lothlorien was, to me, a much better interpretation.

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I don't mind texture recycling to a point but it looks to me Turbine has gone overboard with it in U14.

 

I cannot wait to see what the summer festival mount will be this year. I am betting there still gonna be using the table cloth with a different pattern.

 

I looked at the images from the link & have to say U14 is pathetic. For the life of me I don't know how anyone can say this new region is beautiful because it is not. It is tacky! 

 

It's really sad what has become of this game.

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How would you guys rate texture recycling on your list of MMO frustrations?

High.  Definately high.

 

Althrough generally I need high standard of everything in mmorpg, so it is hard to say what element I would find of small importance in an mmorpg.

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Texture recycling doesn't really annoy me per se, it's the extent of it currently within Lotro which is jarring. Dol Amroth is Annuminas gone kitsch. But my suspicion is that they've outsourced a lot of art work in the more recent past and without the inhouse capability being there any more then this may be the limit to which their budget now stretches. Aren't they re-using raid spaces within DDO now as a budget way to turn out 'new' raids? Can see the next batch of big battles borrowing heavily from the first set. "Join Faramir on the walls of Pelennor Fields" would translate to "one wall with catapults is much the same as another".

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Everyone seems so concerned about asset reuse in Dol Amroth, but the more egregious reuse is in Edhellond. They literally pasted buildings from Celondim & Rivendell, and then wrapped them in vines to make them look old. I also think it's rather compact for a city that was once a center of Elven culture.

 

I expected architecture more similar to Echad Mirobel, with some Numenorean influences, but it's just the same thing we've seen in the past. And frankly, I was someone disappointed with the architecture in Celondim & Rivendell. I have always thought Elven buildings should be somehow light & soaring. Lothlorien was, to me, a much better interpretation.

 

I'm not sure you could consider a simple elf-haven a centre for Elven culture, or on what basis you are making that claim.

Edhellond was founded by Sindarin Elves who were a remnant of those from Doriath because they did not want to stay in Lindon with the Noldor due to the shit that went down between them and the Noldor in the First Age(which is when Edhellond was founded). It was a place where they built ships to sail into the West with.

 

Of course, it's meant to be 25 miles from Dol Amroth, so in-game it's waaaaay too near to Dol Amroth.(But then again, the whole game is like this and is one of the things I wish had been done to proper scale/using MERP maps)

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I don't play anymore (maybe somewhere this vacation say hi to my fellow creeps)

but when they "revamped" the Ettenmoors we laughed our asses off because they slapped a bridge on top of another bridge, just like that. That intern must feel so proud. I bet he put it on his resume :P

Talking about reusing assets :D

I am sure I have a screenshot somewhere but feel welcome to post one while I will dig.bows*

Those pictures, great to see what they do with the game :(

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