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Sapience leaves LOTRO

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You have that right TheQuinn.  Last I checked, my LotRO accounts have been unbanned (not the forum account but the actual game account).  How is that for bitter irony?

 

I must say though... LotRO did revamp their game and forum infraction system and it seems (on paper at least) to be more forgiving... I guess so long as they don't levy a 20 Point infraction on someone.  :D


Actually LV is spot on. By your own admission you think the person using the word doesn't have to take any responsibility for how the word is understood. So educate us...when you used the word ghey, how was it used? Were you describing someone? Talking about a game mechanic or a recent skirmish?

 

The first time it was in Creep chat (I can't remember if it was in /Say or /Tribe chat or in /Creep OOC) but it was in reference to the CC diminishing returns system not working as advertised.  I described it as being "ghey".  The second time I used it was in /say outside Bree upon encountering a male avatar "humping" a female avatar while engaged in virtual sex chat (via /emote and /say).  I typed in /say "ghey" and left after submitting a ticket identifying their game misconduct.  The irony was... 10 minutes later... while I'm questing quietly in the Lone-Lands... it was me banned from game.

 

So I log into my second account and find the two players engaged in rude/vulgar sex chat still playing the game.  Irony much?

 

Without a doubt LotRO engaged in a subjective and biased.. dare say I "harassing"... vendetta against anyone and anything who spoke ill of their game whether rudely or constructively.  Look at their forum today and you'll notice it is woefully lacking in participation.  Another irony perhaps? Or just a sign the game itself is on the way out?  I don't know and don't really care.

 

As to this whole discussion about game chat being "mature", "responsible", "abiding by politically correct measures"... I call hogwash.  If folks let game chat ruin their lives... how are they... how do they... handle reality when it bites back?  Rather, I believe the folks demanding/espousing "perfection" are the ones who are misguided.

 

The world, life itself, is not perfect and therein lies simple perfection.  Nothing and no one is perfect.  What shall be will be.  Surround yourselves with those who love you and those you love and please consider yourself blessed should that be your life.

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Worset, to be honest this thread has taken a strange turn (but that is nothing new here). Do I think your use of the word in question was juvenile in the context you used it? Yes. Do I think you deserved to be banned for it? No.

If you want to label it as political correctiveness, more power to you. But let's cut the bullshit here...using the word ghey, because you know the forum rules don't allow you to use the word gay...its not very clever. I've never seen that word used and I've played several MMOs over quite a few years. Now I've seen "gay" used a few times but even as I register it, folks in the chat room did their own policing as it were.

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Society is weak that mere words can cause someone to bitch as if they had a physical injury. 

The level of politcal correctness is so severe that innocent words that were once not considered vulgar now are.

I think what a lot of these individuals are missing is a sense of fucking humor.  

It's like living with the word police everywhere you go.  I have several black friends I have had for over 20 years. 

When ever I say black people in front of white people they correct me ans say "african american".  Black people have never done that.  Really there only 1 no no word and I have never used it. 

 

Thank you!

 

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Worset, to be honest this thread has taken a strange turn (but that is nothing new here). Do I think your use of the word in question was juvenile in the context you used it? Yes. Do I think you deserved to be banned for it? No.

If you want to label it as political correctiveness, more power to you. But let's cut the bullshit here...using the word ghey, because you know the forum rules don't allow you to use the word gay...its not very clever. I've never seen that word used and I've played several MMOs over quite a few years. Now I've seen "gay" used a few times but even as I register it, folks in the chat room did their own policing as it were.

 

I suppose it could be construed as "juvenile" but then again aren't we all adults longing for childhood? Juveniles?  Why else would we be gamers?  Serious business?  I think not.  It is about having fun.  It is about developing relationships with other gamers.  It is about taking time out from reality to enjoy one's self and possibly help out other gamers.  As to my use of the term "ghey" it was in Creep side chat in in /say Freep side.  Two relatively innocuous chat channels.  Shoot... I've seen horribly worse chat in Creep OOC alone.  But I digress.   :D

 

I don't ever want to "grow up".  I don't even use the term "mature" as that denotes someone is ignorant because of their youth.  I dislike these two connotations and always have.  Life is not about growing up... it is about living and learning and loving.  Life is about growing more wise but never attaining omniscience.  Life is about nurturing relationships and loving.  Life is about being loved.  Life is about caring for those around you and hopefully being cared for in return.

 

Yes, life can be that simple and rewarding.  Should you endeavor.

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So, people are admitting that they are using slangwords for homosexual men as insults and they don't see how that is offensive to those who are homosexual?

*facepalm*

You guys are truly more intelligent than this.

IT IS NOT THE WORD ITSELF THAT IS OFFENSIVE, IT IS WHEN IT IS USED AS AN INSULT!

And fuck knows, I use it all the time to describe stuff that's shit, or when men on telly are all guy love with eachother.

But at least I recognize it's offensive to homosexual people to use their sexuality as an insult to fling at people.

Just like it's offensive to most women to use to C word when describing some random guy you've taken issue with. ;)

 

Get it now?

No, you missed it. It isn't the use of their sexuality as an insult. It's just the use of the word, with no use of actual homosexuality. They are not actually referring to gay people at all.

Imagine you're talking to someone. They've invited you to a party. Problem is, you have to work the next morning and have to decline. They're disappointed say 'oh, that's gay, maybe another time?'. They don't actually mean that the situation likes its own gender, because it clearly lacks a gender. It's just another word that means something else entirely in that context.

Watch the video I linked on the other page if that still doesn't make sense.

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They don't actually mean that the situation likes its own gender, because it clearly lacks a gender. It's just another word that means something else entirely in that context.

 

I think you and others have a valid point - about how the word has meanings not related to sexual preference.

 

But it is also true that the word is still related to it's origin. That is the point - even if you don't mean anything by it - people think it is wrong to use because of the origin of the word and the fact that it is basically a negative word tied up with anti-gay sentiment. You are saying it is unrelated, but I think any time you use "gay" you are bringing in the anti-gay sentiment. Not in your intent, or how you are using it, but using that word is related to homophobia. 

 

Where I grew up, we used that word a lot, and also in general, as kids in a rural area, were quite anti-gay. Not that we knew what that meant - but there were a lot of anti-gay jokes and ideas in the culture. I can't say us using "gay" was unrelated to the anti-gay ideas. So I think: even if you use "gay" in a different context, it still is part of anti-gay beliefs and anti-gay practices.

 

I am sure Doro you wont agree - but I am just saying this is the other side's perspective. I think both sides have valid points. There are times where using expressions like "gay" is pretty harmless imo - although I can also see how using them can hurt someone (such as the friend who is in the closet, listening to you use that word). I am not defending the use of "gay" though. Words have an impact, and sometimes "gay" will be used in a subtle, anti-homosexual way. I think there are good reasons not to use that word in a negative way.

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I think you and others have a valid point - about how the word has meanings not related to sexual preference.

 

But it is also true that the word is still related to it's origin. That is the point - even if you don't mean anything by it - people think it is wrong to use because of the origin of the word and the fact that it is basically a negative word tied up with anti-gay sentiment. You are saying it is unrelated, but I think any time you use "gay" you are bringing in the anti-gay sentiment. Not in your intent, or how you are using it, but using that word is related to homophobia. 

 

Where I grew up, we used that word a lot, and also in general, as kids in a rural area, were quite anti-gay. Not that we knew what that meant - but there were a lot of anti-gay jokes and ideas in the culture. I can't say us using "gay" was unrelated to the anti-gay ideas. So I think: even if you use "gay" in a different context, it still is part of anti-gay beliefs and anti-gay practices.

 

I am sure Doro you wont agree - but I am just saying this is the other side's perspective. I think both sides have valid points. There are times where using expressions like "gay" is pretty harmless imo - although I can also see how using them can hurt someone (such as the friend who is in the closet, listening to you use that word). I am not defending the use of "gay" though. Words have an impact, and sometimes "gay" will be used in a subtle, anti-homosexual way. I think there are good reasons not to use that word in a negative way.

Yet homosexual was not the original meaning for gay, either. So there's clearly an ability to change the meaning of the word.

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Yet homosexual was not the original meaning for gay, either. So there's clearly an ability to change the meaning of the word.

 

I agree. I think most people who don't like use of that word feel the word is too tied to anti-gay acts and history. Or that that word is just part of a system of wide-spread anti-homosexual feelings/practice.

 

Nazi also has taken on new meanings, like grammar nazi. But it is hard to deny that that word has ties with Nazi Germany.  In the US people use that word a lot with the new meaning. But I can still respect people who would not want that word used. "Gay" is a complicated one. If you asked people what "gay" usually means today, I think you would get both definitions: "bad or dumb", and homosexual. And the third meaning of "happy" but "gay" is not used much that way any more.

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In other news Dr Who and the BBC have upset the Daily Mail by having him pull a hair out of his head.....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737867/Doctor-Who-criticised-scene-characters-tear-hair-complaints-sufferers-rare-disorder.html

As I've said before, there is always someone who will be offended by anything other people do.

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No, you missed it. It isn't the use of their sexuality as an insult. It's just the use of the word, with no use of actual homosexuality. They are not actually referring to gay people at all.Imagine you're talking to someone. They've invited you to a party. Problem is, you have to work the next morning and have to decline. They're disappointed say 'oh, that's gay, maybe another time?'. They don't actually mean that the situation likes its own gender, because it clearly lacks a gender. It's just another word that means something else entirely in that context.Watch the video I linked on the other page if that still doesn't make sense.

Doro it is you that keeps missing it. LV knows full well what you are talking about. Bottom line, you can assign whatever new meaning that you want to the word gay or fag (which in itself..never mind), but its not going to change how a homosexual reacts to those words. Basically what you are saying is "okay homosexuals, I've decide that I want the word gay and fag to mean stupid or dumb, so even though those words have been used to insult you and make you feel like a second class citizen for several decades you no longer should be insulted because when I now say it, I'm referring to something stupid or dumb and not referring to guy on guy action." Does that about sum it up?

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Doro it is you that keeps missing it. LV knows full well what you are talking about. Bottom line, you can assign whatever new meaning that you want to the word gay or fag (which in itself..never mind), but its not going to change how a homosexual reacts to those words. Basically what you are saying is "okay homosexuals, I've decide that I want the word gay and fag to mean stupid or dumb, so even though those words have been used to insult you and make you feel like a second class citizen for several decades you no longer should be insulted because when I now say it, I'm referring to something stupid or dumb and not referring to guy on guy action." Does that about sum it up?

Pretty much. The word is now a new word. To get hung up on it because it used to be used in another way just seems odd. Not sure what I missed at all, though, considering that's exactly what I've been saying this whole time.

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Pretty much. The word is now a new word. To get hung up on it because it used to be used in another way just seems odd. Not sure what I missed at all, though, considering that's exactly what I've been saying this whole time.

Man you need to get out more. If you don't think that word(s) is still being used to harass or insult homosexuals you must be living in a bubble. But sure, in the end it must be easy for a straight person to say its odd to get hung up on stupid shit like that. /facepalm.

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Man you need to get out more. If you don't think that word(s) is still being used to harass or insult homosexuals you must be living in a bubble. But sure, in the end it must be easy for a straight person to say its odd to get hung up on stupid shit like that. /facepalm.

Where did I say that in the slightest? All I said is that 'gay' is being used as something else now. If someone wants to insult a gay person, you don't call them gay. That's just what they are and isn't an insult. And even in the context of this topic, he wasn't insulting a gay person to begin with.

I didn't realise being gay automatically meant you were easily offended by words not even directed at you. I guess I missed that part. Apparently calling a gay person gay is now 'harassing' and 'insulting'.

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Hey, I could claim the word 'daisy' means those same things, it wouldn't make it true ;)

 

If Anthophobia (the fear of flowers) were as widespread and ingrained in our society as Homophobia is, then I expect it could be used in the same derogatory way "gay" is now. Just saying.

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Where did I say that in the slightest? All I said is that 'gay' is being used as something else now. If someone wants to insult a gay person, you don't call them gay. That's just what they are and isn't an insult. And even in the context of this topic, he wasn't insulting a gay person to begin with.I didn't realise being gay automatically meant you were easily offended by words not even directed at you. I guess I missed that part. Apparently calling a gay person gay is now 'harassing' and 'insulting'.

Wow, either you don't get it or you are simply unable to see another point of view that contradicts your own. I see where you are coming from on this issue, but when other people here have tried to break it down for you so that you understand their perspective it just doesn't sink in. So either you are being thick or just arguing for the sake of arguing. Either way, I'm out (no pun intended).

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If Anthophobia (the fear of flowers) were as widespread and ingrained in our society as Homophobia is, then I expect it could be used in the same derogatory way "gay" is now. Just saying.

Not sure people are scared of gay people, though. Unless you count those who are scared of things hiding in their closet *buh dum tish*.

 

Wow, either you don't get it or you are simply unable to see another point of view that contradicts your own. I see where you are coming from on this issue, but when other people here have tried to break it down for you so that you understand their perspective it just doesn't sink in. So either you are being thick or just arguing for the sake of arguing. Either way, I'm out (no pun intended).

No, I see the other side. I just don't agree with it. A gay person taking offense to someone calling someone else gay, not meaning homosexual, just seems thin-skinned to me. Instead of taking it as any other word, they're tying it back to the other word and then taking offense to it.

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Ok last one, honest...yes, they are tying it back to the other word, but there is a logical reason for why they (we) do that.  Doro, you just can't erase decades of that word being used to shame and insult people just because you or the people you hang out with decide that "it's a new word".  You act like any time the word "gay" was directed at a homosexual it was done in a positive manner.  That is was just stated as a matter of fact.  And I know you are not that naive.  And yeah, I could see how a straight person could say that gay people are being thin-skinned...but let's face it, if the majority of the population was homosexual and the minority was heterosexual it would be you making this argument instead of me.

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What, on Earth, are you talking referring to Bucko39?  A "new word"?  Gay is not a new word.  It has been around for hundreds of years (at least within the English language) and it means as I defined it many posts ago.  America, and its SMALL MINORITY, has bastardized it into mean implying gay/homosexual.  My gay family members laughed at me when I told them about my ban for using the word "ghey".  They each told me that is harmless in every sense particularly because the gay community is far more ruthless to their own. 

 

Go figure...

 

In the end, I was just filling people in on the convoluted Turbine/SappyEssence TOS rationale.  Somehow it turned into folks bashing me for my use of the term and further evolved into the discussion on homosexuality and such.

 

It's done folks.  Really.  It is done.

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Ok last one, honest...yes, they are tying it back to the other word, but there is a logical reason for why they (we) do that.  Doro, you just can't erase decades of that word being used to shame and insult people just because you or the people you hang out with decide that "it's a new word".  You act like any time the word "gay" was directed at a homosexual it was done in a positive manner.  That is was just stated as a matter of fact.  And I know you are not that naive.  And yeah, I could see how a straight person could say that gay people are being thin-skinned...but let's face it, if the majority of the population was homosexual and the minority was heterosexual it would be you making this argument instead of me.

You can just erase it. By letting it go.

It isn't just the people I hang out with, either. Films, TV, gaming, all use gay and don't mean gay. I've been on a bus in London, saw two school kids (opposite genders) kissing, and one of their friends jumped in shouting 'GAY!!'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkA9iqCGSY

How can someone direct the word gay at a gay person in a negative manner (without adding in another insult to the phrase)? They are gay. I can't even see how that can be offensive to be called what you are. What tone is required to cause a person to feel offended for someone saying what they are? There's a scene in the TV show Mighty Boosh where one of the characters says 'you live with a couple of dossbags and an ape!'. The gorilla he's referring to takes offense and he replies, 'what? you are an ape' and the gorilla shrugs.

Bum-bandit, faggot, queer, all of that jazz I can get. But gay is literally only insulting to people who don't like gays in the first place (see that poster recently, sorry forgot the name, that said they would hate being called gay).

But if it were the other way around, I wouldn't be arguing your position. Because I don't find words offensive unless it's an insult directed right at me with malice.

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Ok, I'll send out a memo to the "gay mafia" that we should just "let it go" because Doro said so.

 

I'll make sure that memo reaches those countries where being labelled gay comes with a death sentence or jail time.  I'm sure they would appreciate your point of view and find it easy to just let it go.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, the word gay as it refers to someone being a homosexual has a negative connotation throughout the world.  Its not going to change because you make a bullshit statement that all TV, Film and gaming now use the word gay as another insult that has nothing to do with homosexuality (which is idiotic in itself on so many levels).

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What, on Earth, are you talking referring to Bucko39?  A "new word"?  Gay is not a new word.  It has been around for hundreds of years (at least within the English language) and it means as I defined it many posts ago.  America, and its SMALL MINORITY, has bastardized it into mean implying gay/homosexual.  My gay family members laughed at me when I told them about my ban for using the word "ghey".  They each told me that is harmless in every sense particularly because the gay community is far more ruthless to their own. 

 

Go figure...

 

In the end, I was just filling people in on the convoluted Turbine/SappyEssence TOS rationale.  Somehow it turned into folks bashing me for my use of the term and further evolved into the discussion on homosexuality and such.

 

It's done folks.  Really.  It is done.

Worset, see Doro's post.  According to him and social media at large the word gay is a new word with a new meaning.  And yes, I agree...it is done.

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Ok, I'll send out a memo to the "gay mafia" that we should just "let it go" because Doro said so.

 

I'll make sure that memo reaches those countries where being labelled gay comes with a death sentence or jail time.  I'm sure they would appreciate your point of view and find it easy to just let it go.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, the word gay as it refers to someone being a homosexual has a negative connotation throughout the world.  Its not going to change because you make a bullshit statement that all TV, Film and gaming now use the word gay as another insult that has nothing to do with homosexuality (which is idiotic in itself on so many levels).

 it all sounds a bit queer if you ask me ......

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