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What the hell is happening to this forum with regards to moderation?


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Regarding our reputation, my only real concern is that I'd prefer that we not get too nasty towards newcomers and people who still enjoy LOTRO, because we should want fresh faces and new perspectives

Ugh, this is getting stupid.   1. I think some of you are choosing to assume the worst about all of Bucko's posts because some of them come off the wrong way. I didn't see any difference in his c-wo

What I've always liked about this forum is that it has always felt natural. It was a place where conservations could take place. Conversations start on a particular subject and finish on an often comp

I agree. Darmokk said it was only extreme cases (the posts about US politics), but I would say Darmokk should be really careful not to delete ANY posts now - unless they clearly break the forum rules - such as are vulgar.

 

I never got the "not talking about X" idea - honestly. I do give Darmokk some benefit of the doubt - but think he should back off - and certainly not be deleting any posts - such as ones by Doro at this point. 

 

I guess he could also resign - if he wants to. We might be able to get one or two other volunteer mods. But I am not saying he has to resign - just I hope he can be really careful for a while and try not to delete any posts unless it's clearly needed. Let the threads go off topic - we all have things that are super annoying when people post them.

 

Maybe Darmokk, if you have some question - or a thread by Doro that is not black and white - you could ask Muer to look at it and decide to remove it or not.

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I understand Darmokk's reason and I agree with it as far as it goes about bringing Obama into an event that happened during the Carter administration. I do think the battle with Doro is personal and it shouldn't be. Mods are suppose to be impartial. I also don't think a mod should be a regular poster, not saying mods can't post, but IMO, they should be more lurker than poster. Any comparisons to Lil' Ricky are cheap shots and anyone making them should be ashamed of themselves. Just my 2 cents.

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Any comparisons to Lil' Ricky are cheap shots and anyone making them should be ashamed of themselves. Just my 2 cents.

Salience often said things that contradicted something else he had said previously and when called on it by someone providing a link to his words he'd delete the conversation, so yes comparisons are valid.

The correct thing would be to acknowledge your own words when someone proves you said them and apologise for your denial of them. Deleting the conversation pointing out your words and denial makes you appear petty and dictatorial. We all make mistakes it' s how we behave when they are pointed out to us that shows our character and integrity.

Sapience made rules up as he went along too.

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Salience often said things that contradicted something else he had said previously and when called on it by someone providing a link to his words he'd delete the conversation, so yes comparisons are valid.

The correct thing would be to acknowledge your own words when someone proves you said them and apologise for your denial of them. Deleting the conversation pointing out your words and denial makes you appear petty and dictatorial. We all make mistakes it' s how we behave when they are pointed out to us that shows our character and integrity.

Sapience made rules up as he went along too.

You have taken quite a few things out of context. It wasn't non-US people, meaning Euros, bringing up party politics, it was US people, a Canadian, and an Aussie bringing US party politics into the conversation. And there isn't a ban on a US party politics, make a thread and discuss to your hearts content. Bringing an agenda to unrelated threads because they need the audience is what was moderated. These aren't corporate forums, they are owned solely by Muer, he wields the supreme ban hammer over the whole site, literally.

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Maybe Darmokk, if you have some question - or a thread by Doro that is not black and white - you could ask Muer to look at it and decide to remove it or not.

 

Yep. 

Let's put Darmokk's mod rights on admin-moderation! :) :)

 

That will learn him! :) :)

 

 

 

On a slightly more serious note - If Darmokk did indeed delete a user comment pointing out his mistake - he deserves at least a holiday. 

ça ne se fait pas!

 

 

Still, it's a good forum. :)

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Salience often said things that contradicted something else he had said previously and when called on it by someone providing a link to his words he'd delete the conversation, so yes comparisons are valid.

You might be shocked to find that I will defend Darmokk on this point. He hasn't so far deleted a conversation I've linked to. What I linked to recently in this post (), that I think you were referring to, was just to point out that he hadn't just been enforcing a no off-topic US policy, at least in regards to myself. I made it a link to prevent 'off-topic' conversation (however, I now know that only US off-topic is not allowed so I probably didn't need to link it, despite all the non-US stuff that was deleted for being 'off-topic').

However, he has hidden conversations AFTER they were made calling him out (he likes to act like it's 'tidying' up a thread), but leaving his own last word untouched. It completely throws off the context and stops people from seeing what was actually said. Many not being about the US at all.

Some links below to point it out:

(my own posts deleted that weren't about off-topic US stuff)

(from what I remember, quite a hefty amount of posts deleted that he claimed to be 'bullshit' and off-topic, but again not off-topic US stuff)

(no discussing moderation in threads, clearly contradicting his own claim that only US off-topic stuff is not allowed)

Some public mod threats and gloating after mod actions:

(couldn't have been sent in a message?)

(again, a threat for posting 'off-topic' things that weren't about the US)

(no posting what he considers to be 'lunatic' or 'non-humour')

(gloating over mod action and baiting me)

(I posted a link to the random thread so that my off-topic discussion of tech advancement in Middle-earth wouldn't interfere with the thread, which he deleted, then deleting my first response to his action and baiting me)

(the final paragraph, posted while I was banned so I couldn't defend myself, falsely claiming to know the intentions of my posts, calling my posts nonsense and abusing mod powers to 'enjoy [his] weekend')

(largest paragraph, again baiting me and making things up about my intentions when I couldn't post to defend myself)

And the cherry on the cake:

(Darmokk discussing off-topic US stuff in a thread not designed for it!)

But he hasn't (so far) deleted a conversation after it was linked to him. That is something he has not done to my knowledge.

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You might be shocked to find that I will defend Darmokk on this point. He hasn't so far deleted a conversation I've linked to. What I linked to recently in this post (), that I think you were referring to, was just to point out that he hadn't just been enforcing a no off-topic US policy, at least in regards to myself. I made it a link to prevent 'off-topic' conversation (however, I now know that only US off-topic is not allowed so I probably didn't need to link it, despite all the non-US stuff that was deleted for being 'off-topic').

However, he has hidden conversations AFTER they were made calling him out (he likes to act like it's 'tidying' up a thread), but leaving his own last word untouched. It completely throws off the context and stops people from seeing what was actually said. Many not being about the US at all.

Some links below to point it out:

(my own posts deleted that weren't about off-topic US stuff)

(from what I remember, quite a hefty amount of posts deleted that he claimed to be 'bullshit' and off-topic, but again not off-topic US stuff)

(no discussing moderation in threads, clearly contradicting his own claim that only US off-topic stuff is not allowed)

Some public mod threats and gloating after mod actions:

(couldn't have been sent in a message?)

(again, a threat for posting 'off-topic' things that weren't about the US)

(no posting what he considers to be 'lunatic' or 'non-humour')

(gloating over mod action and baiting me)

(I posted a link to the random thread so that my off-topic discussion of tech advancement in Middle-earth wouldn't interfere with the thread, which he deleted, then deleting my first response to his action and baiting me)

(the final paragraph, posted while I was banned so I couldn't defend myself, falsely claiming to know the intentions of my posts, calling my posts nonsense and abusing mod powers to 'enjoy [his] weekend')

(largest paragraph, again baiting me and making things up about my intentions when I couldn't post to defend myself)

And the cherry on the cake:

(Darmokk discussing off-topic US stuff in a thread not designed for it!)

But he hasn't (so far) deleted a conversation after it was linked to him. That is something he has not done to my knowledge.

 

You're right, that conversation hasn't been deleted. I thought it had been as I couldn't find it this morning.

 

I apologise to Darmok for saying that particular conversation had been deleted.

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Darmokk is happening :)

 

I've noticed a decrease in quality conversations ever since he came to power. Pre Darmokk moderation was perfecto.

 

Many good folk lost interest and left. Some for good.

I don't think anyone has really left because of Darmokk, though.

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I don't think anyone has really left because of Darmokk, though.

I don't think so either.

I do wish he'd take a step back and save moderation for the reason he was made a mod in the first place: to deal with incredibly nasty, vitriolic trolls.. you know, too much cursing, violent verbal attacks, that sort of thing.

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This forum is also a lot bigger than it was, now surpassing the OF. This is one of the only places I am aware of where you can have a reasonable discussion about e.g. Israel/Palestine.

I really wish this forum software had a move-post function. It doesn't and it also doesn't leave a marker like it does for mod edits. I would be all for more transparency. In any case you can always ask any other team member to look at posts I hid, they are visible to them and I do not mind.

There is a lot of high quality information here, just think about the Tolkien lawsuit. This forum holds the primary information for that. People spent quality time to make those posts. There isn't a point to waste their time by making people not come here because of 2-3 individuals that need to literally poo over random things.

Some people have been a bit successful in making my moderation to be of wider scope than it is. I posted a couple clarifications about what I consider crossing the line into trolling in the last days. Topic drift isn't in there.

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Some people have been a bit successful in making my moderation to be of wider scope than it is. I posted a couple clarifications about what I consider crossing the line into trolling in the last days. Topic drift isn't in there.

You've posted contradictions on what crosses the line. That same line that isn't in the rules to begin with. My post in this thread shows how you've changed your tune each time. It went from anything that you didn't want posted for the sake of keeping threads pure, to anything I posted that was off-topic (regardless of whether it was in response to an existing post) or 'not funny' to you, to anything that you consider trolling (which means pretty much anything you want it to mean), to anything that was off-topic about the US. Moving the goalposts each time with no real explanation.

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This forum is also a lot bigger than it was, now surpassing the OF. This is one of the only places I am aware of where you can have a reasonable discussion about e.g. Israel/Palestine.

I really wish this forum software had a move-post function. It doesn't and it also doesn't leave a marker like it does for mod edits. I would be all for more transparency. In any case you can always ask any other team member to look at posts I hid, they are visible to them and I do not mind.

There is a lot of high quality information here, just think about the Tolkien lawsuit. This forum holds the primary information for that. People spent quality time to make those posts. There isn't a point to waste their time by making people not come here because of 2-3 individuals that need to literally poo over random things.

Some people have been a bit successful in making my moderation to be of wider scope than it is. I posted a couple clarifications about what I consider crossing the line into trolling in the last days. Topic drift isn't in there.

 

Perhaps you could do a closed thread that tells us definitively what is and isn't allowed? There'd be no confusion or crossing of wires then. When moderation rules are posted here, there and everywhere it gets a little difficult to keep track.

 

Darmok you also need to try and see things from our perspective. Many of us have had our keyboard fingers burnt on the OF, so are naturally suspicious when people claim posts are disappearing here. It is not something we expect to happen here unless in the most extreme circumstances. If 1 or 2 people are derailing threads with the same agenda over and over, can't they be dealt with privately? Why should we all have to suffer for the behaviour of a small few?

 

I'd just like to add that up until recently I think you have been a great moderator, but with your contradictory statements as to what is and isn't allowed you've certainly confused me. 

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The posts I have seen that wander off topic don't bother me... much.

I've created threads that wandered into thread derailment and I just shrugged it off and moved on.

I find the belly aching about the moderation far more distracting than the actual moderation itself as it has spread into other threads like a cancer.

 

Give Darmokk a break... if not PM him... if that doesn't work PM Muer... If that doesn't work live with it or leave...

Keep it private and KEEP IT OUT OF EVERY FRIGGIN' THREAD.

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You might be shocked to find that I will defend Darmokk on this point. He hasn't so far deleted a conversation I've linked to. What I linked to recently in this post (), that I think you were referring to, was just to point out that he hadn't just been enforcing a no off-topic US policy, at least in regards to myself. I made it a link to prevent 'off-topic' conversation (however, I now know that only US off-topic is not allowed so I probably didn't need to link it, despite all the non-US stuff that was deleted for being 'off-topic').

However, he has hidden conversations AFTER they were made calling him out (he likes to act like it's 'tidying' up a thread), but leaving his own last word untouched. It completely throws off the context and stops people from seeing what was actually said. Many not being about the US at all.

Some links below to point it out:

(my own posts deleted that weren't about off-topic US stuff)

(from what I remember, quite a hefty amount of posts deleted that he claimed to be 'bullshit' and off-topic, but again not off-topic US stuff)

(no discussing moderation in threads, clearly contradicting his own claim that only US off-topic stuff is not allowed)

Some public mod threats and gloating after mod actions:

(couldn't have been sent in a message?)

(again, a threat for posting 'off-topic' things that weren't about the US)

(no posting what he considers to be 'lunatic' or 'non-humour')

(gloating over mod action and baiting me)

(I posted a link to the random thread so that my off-topic discussion of tech advancement in Middle-earth wouldn't interfere with the thread, which he deleted, then deleting my first response to his action and baiting me)

(the final paragraph, posted while I was banned so I couldn't defend myself, falsely claiming to know the intentions of my posts, calling my posts nonsense and abusing mod powers to 'enjoy [his] weekend')

(largest paragraph, again baiting me and making things up about my intentions when I couldn't post to defend myself)

And the cherry on the cake:

(Darmokk discussing off-topic US stuff in a thread not designed for it!)

But he hasn't (so far) deleted a conversation after it was linked to him. That is something he has not done to my knowledge.

Thanks for the list. I actually just reviewed those intending to unhide things but no, I'm sorry if you guys want that you have to ask another mod. That was a week of doing terrible damage to this forum and to people who were posting useful information.

Most of it is pingpong style meta-discussion only, from a single poster. Hopefully we are past this and won't have another week like it.

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Thanks for the list. I actually just reviewed those intending to unhide things but no, I'm sorry if you guys want that you have to ask another mod.

So you were going to unhide them, but because they were pointed out to everyone as being unfairly hidden, you decide you aren't going to do that now? You're letting your emotional responses interfere with your moderation decisions.

That was a week of doing terrible damage to this forum and to people who were posting useful information.

Really? 'Terrible damage to this forum'? And you call others dramatic.

Most of it is pingpong style meta-discussion only, from a single poster. Hopefully we are past this and won't have another week like it.

Well, hopefully you won't be making the rules up as you go anymore, then we probably won't have another week like it.

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Yes, I double checked whether I overdid the hiding this week because of being carried away.

And despite not fitting your criteria of being US off-topic, the only rule you say you're concerned with, they'll still remain hidden.

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I think it's one of those conflicts that started from two people with a "won't back down" personality that can't let go of it and start over.

 

Doro, I'm glad your ban was reconsidered so quickly.  But tell me, why do you persist in keeping your forum photo, a reminder of a thread where you were warned repeatedly about reposting a picture that was against the rules?  It weakens your position IMO.

 

Darmokk, people here are not so out of touch with the world that they can't deal with facts (or non-facts) about politics in parts of the world they themselves don't live in.  Part of the charm of this forum is that we all bring something to the table from our own backgrounds.  There's always someone who will say something that hits a nerve on a topic we feel strongly about, and being able to not get caught up in emotion over it is a necessary quality for a moderator.

 

Edit: Doro's forum photo is now different from the one I was talking about in this post, just so no one reading this later is confused by my mentioning it.

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Doro, I'm glad your ban was reconsidered so quickly.  But tell me, why do you persist in keeping your forum photo, a reminder of a thread where you were warned repeatedly about reposting a picture that was against the rules?  It weakens your position IMO.

In all honesty, I'm lazy and I haven't bothered changing it to anything else. Originally it was there as a sort of 'fuck you' for the way he conducted himself. After that, it was just laziness.

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Yupp. It's mostly you anyway.

And despite not fitting your criteria of being US off-topic, the only rule you say you're concerned with, they'll still remain hidden.

What I am saying is I have made a second pass to make sure I didn't get carried away. I am satisfied that the moderated posts either fit the criteria I outlined. Or were your personal meltdown, all of which I rate as trolling because you were popping random stuff in random threads while dramaing around.

If anybody really thinks that further action is required you can ask a different mod (the posts are visible to them).

To clarify two things:

  • none of that would be moderated if it was in its own thread
  • the definition of trolling I am using is a lot more narrow than "US politics", you have to drag US right or left wing partisanship into threads that have nothing to do with it, in a way incomprehensible to Europeans (conspiracy theories work) and refuse to put it into its own thread, thereby proving you need the audience of the original threads, therefore trolling
The way I see it the change in this forum is that we didn't have anybody doing the latter until some time ago. But growth and new people are unavoidable.
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Or were your personal meltdown, all of which I rate as trolling because you were popping random stuff in random threads while dramaing around.

And because we can't see these posts ourselves anymore, I can't defend myself from your claims my posts were a 'personal meltdown', 'trolling' or 'dramaing around'. Well done.

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