What the hell is happening to this forum with regards to moderation?

[Darmokk 163]

I'm sorry Doro but this forum isn't your personal toy. If you want things unhidden or a copy of your own posts ask a different mod.

[Doro 818]

I'm sorry Doro but this forum isn't your personal toy.

But apparently it's yours.

[Acidreign 4]

Darmokk was the reason i all but ceased posting here as well. Had a post or two deleted, one was just plain stupid attempting to take a joke as a real wold threat. Was bullshit. I dont know nor do i care what the problem is, at first i felt pretty free to say what i want how i want, which is the way i talk in real life. Wasnt a problem. Darmokk slides in , few posts get deleted, a pm here and there attempting to throttle my language. I live in sin city USA, we are all adults here. Cant handfle how i speak? Dont fucking read it! But no, isnt what happened. I felt like i was getting hoovered over right from the start, kinda like baby sap jr, that is why i just said fuck it and dropped out.

 

 Dont need anymore bullshit like that. Fuck it.

[Tui 95]

Regarding our reputation, my only real concern is that I'd prefer that we not get too nasty towards newcomers and people who still enjoy LOTRO, because we should want fresh faces and new perspectives even when they could use a little smoothing of rough edges. Beyond that, do I care that some OF lurker here might see a thread derail (the horror!) or some political comment that isn't any different from the goofy comments you see on US news sites? Not one bit. Our reputation is enhanced by our tolerance of a diversity of opinions and ability to handle differences through intelligent conversation. Do we really want people here who would use one or two comments, without taking the responsibility of engaging in further inquiry or dialogue, as a reason not to use this site?

 

I like it when threads wander the same way that face-to-face conversations do, and I don't want to see threads moderated solely for that reason. I would prefer moderation being limited to more serious violations like personal attacks, extreme vulgarity, spam, etc. If someone posts provocative political statements (which people do all the time on every internet forum), either roll your eyes and ignore it or provide an intelligent response and move on. I thought we were supposed to have thick skins here. 

[Bango 136]

Now that Sap & the Paiz duo have left Turbine, in the absence of our long standing enemies I've wondered how long this forum will continue before we begin to turn on each other. This is not criticism directed at anyone in particular, just a reflection on what happens to a group dynamic when the primary bond is removed.

 

As for Darmokk, I would rather that we referred to moderators in the abstract. Like Muer, Darmokk provides his services free of charge and it would be wrong to single him out individually. Would be good to see Muer decide on these issues and update the forum rules.

 

And before you all start jumping on me, no I'm not sucking up to him, nor am I trying to earn my own Order of the Brown Nose. Rather I don't want to see our mods driven away because of the agro we give them. On the other hand, perhaps I'm turning into MarV!!!!!

[warspeech 302]

Now that Sap & the Paiz duo have left Turbine, in the absence of our long standing enemies I've wondered how long this forum will continue before we begin to turn on each other. This is not criticism directed at anyone in particular, just a reflection on what happens to a group dynamic when the primary bond is removed.

 

As for Darmokk, I would rather that we referred to moderators in the abstract. Like Muer, Darmokk provides his services free of charge and it would be wrong to single him out individually. Would be good to see Muer decide on these issues and update the forum rules.

 

And before you all start jumping on me, no I'm not sucking up to him, nor am I trying to earn my own Order of the Brown Nose. Rather I don't want to see our mods driven away because of the agro we give them. On the other hand, perhaps I'm turning into MarV!!!!!

 

I don't think we'll start turning on each other.  Not unless you *do* turn into MarV - in that case, then look out you! 

[warspeech 302]

I redownloaded the game a week ago and have being playing the new update. 

 

Mallorn, I'm waiting for a sale on Gondor before I buy it, but I'm really interested in your impressions.  What do you think of it so far?

 

I think there's a thread on Update 14 here somewhere if you want to use that one.

[The MMO Troll 131]

Now that Sap & the Paiz duo have left Turbine, in the absence of our long standing enemies I've wondered how long this forum will continue before we begin to turn on each other. This is not criticism directed at anyone in particular, just a reflection on what happens to a group dynamic when the primary bond is removed.

 

As for Darmokk, I would rather that we referred to moderators in the abstract. Like Muer, Darmokk provides his services free of charge and it would be wrong to single him out individually. Would be good to see Muer decide on these issues and update the forum rules.

 

And before you all start jumping on me, no I'm not sucking up to him, nor am I trying to earn my own Order of the Brown Nose. Rather I don't want to see our mods driven away because of the agro we give them. On the other hand, perhaps I'm turning into MarV!!!!!

 

Unless things improve radically at Turbine in regards to their administration and development of LOTRO, I think Aaron Campbell and Frelorn will quickly become the new whipping boys in place of Kate and Rick.

[Spidey 123]

This forum is also a lot bigger than it was, now surpassing the OF. This is one of the only places I am aware of where you can have a reasonable discussion about e.g. Israel/Palestine.

I really wish this forum software had a move-post function. It doesn't and it also doesn't leave a marker like it does for mod edits. I would be all for more transparency. In any case you can always ask any other team member to look at posts I hid, they are visible to them and I do not mind.

There is a lot of high quality information here, just think about the Tolkien lawsuit. This forum holds the primary information for that. People spent quality time to make those posts. There isn't a point to waste their time by making people not come here because of 2-3 individuals that need to literally poo over random things.

Some people have been a bit successful in making my moderation to be of wider scope than it is. I posted a couple clarifications about what I consider crossing the line into trolling in the last days. Topic drift isn't in there.

I assume you mean bigger as in concurrency, maybe that's not the correct word, bigger as in greater amount of new posts? Maybe you should just tell us what you mean, Darmokk. I will still list the OF as bigger content wise, it's not like we have a section for every single server, + PvP on individual servers.

 

I, for one, don't give a shit if we're bigger than the OF, and have been vocal about not wanting these forums bigger or have more appeal, and what I feared has happened.

 

Has this become an epeen thing between this forum and the OF?

[Mallorn 107]

Mallorn, I'm waiting for a sale on Gondor before I buy it, but I'm really interested in your impressions.  What do you think of it so far?

 

I think there's a thread on Update 14 here somewhere if you want to use that one.

 

I've added a ramble to the Update 14.1 thread.

[Darmokk 163]

I like it when threads wander the same way that face-to-face conversations do, and I don't want to see threads moderated solely for that reason.

Some affected parties have made it sound like that but I never proposed or moderated like that.

The whole dustup last week started when I removed a post that was blaming Obama for a 1988 shootdown of an Iranian plane (when the Republicans were in power), in a thread where other members were actively griefing about the victims of the 2014 Dutch shootdown. That was at the very core of what I had said earlier, that I don't tolerate US party bullshit (that is incomprehensible to Europeans anyway) in unreleated threads. Another member then went into meltdown mode spamming all kinds of threads baiting a moderator - never having seen the original post.

And even then, everybody here is free to post that particular theory in a new thread or a more suitable thread if one exists.

The only real change lately is that we (and I mean several moderators) prefer not to use the c-word that is highly offensive in the US and is considered a gender-loaded swearword. Just like racially loaded swearwords we just don't need that here. It makes everybody look bad and lowers the value of the contributions that the overwhelming majority of posters make. What about them? Do they have no rights?

And even then, you have the full dynamic range of the English language at your disposal as long as it isn't a swearword that is racially or gender loaded in one of the major English speaking countries.

[Doro 818]

Another member then went into meltdown mode spamming all kinds of threads baiting a moderator - never having seen the original post.

More lies to make yourself look better. I started calling out your mod actions (what you call 'meltdown mode', to try to act like you did nothing wrong) wherever you decided to start hiding my posts (it wasn't about that other guy's post, it was about my own posts) despite them not breaking this rule you've made up. I wasn't baiting, I was responding to your mod abuse and I wasn't going to let it slide unseen by the majority of posters.

Now you keep up with this bullshit of pretending like it was all someone else's fault and you've never done anything wrong. Not only that, you're calling me a liar when I've shown you HAVE stifled conversations that have wandered (because you didn't want anything 'off-topic').

And you're supposed to be a mod, though I've seen little evidence you even know how to act like one.

[Dalthalion 183]

I've never agreed that people having "six degrees of separation" moments are trolling.  This forum board is for discussions, and they aren't always going to be "on-topic".  If the moderation wants to have certain topics stay "on-topic", they need to ( a ) start those discussions themselves and ( b ) set ground rules specific to those topics from post #1.  One cannot "co-opt" the subject matter in a topic (e.g. the "only" viable Israel/palestine topic in existence), grab the rudder and make the discussion go a certain way.  As MueR would put it, "

 

Trolling is malicious and deliberate.  But the moderating I have complained about of late has effectively declared that "That reminds me ..." moments are trolling.  They are not.  Trolling is currently defined on this board as "... trying to incite flaming ("... using verbal abuse targeted at other users ...") in others ...".  If the moderators want that definition changed to something else, they need to put it in print, so that this never happens again.

[Thequinn 185]

Wandering off topic and forcing agendas are different topics all together. 

I'm glad to see Doro isn't banned.  As someone stated. 

 

I don't always agreed with how Doro comes across, but when he makes it a point to make a completely heartfelt or intelligent post I feel warm inside. 

 

I'm glad we have a moderator like Darmokk for those times when we get a deliberate troll.  Sure some amount of sarcasm is fun at times but every now and then we get the ardent troll that thinks he will be able to derail our threads and name call and get away with it.  

 

I'm not a moderator but can we simply give the bickering a rest for while.  I think some of us over react after being under the tight fist of Richard Heaton as far as what should not be moderated. 

 

I agree with the c-word not being used.  And repeated swearing in post after post should be cleaned up.  Sure drop an F bomb every now and then, ok.  Using that language in every sentence to show frustration is not necessary. 

[Tui 95]

The whole dustup last week started when I removed a post that was blaming Obama for a 1988 shootdown of an Iranian plane (when the Republicans were in power), in a thread where other members were actively griefing about the victims of the 2014 Dutch shootdown. That was at the very core of what I had said earlier, that I don't tolerate US party bullshit (that is incomprehensible to Europeans anyway) in unreleated threads. Another member then went into meltdown mode spamming all kinds of threads baiting a moderator - never having seen the original post.

 

I'm perplexed as to why, if that one post bothered you, you couldn't have just called it out as BS and suggested that people get back on topic? Did the post really violate a posted rule for these forums, or did you just not like it? I can understand if you thought the person was deliberately trolling or griefing, but then maybe a more understandable explanation might be, for example, 'the comment was so off-base and inflammatory that I thought it would distract from the people who were sincerely trying to have a meaningful conversation on topic,' or something like that, rather than saying you've made a new rule that we can't mention US politics in an unrelated thread.

 

As mentioned above, I do appreciate that moderation here has generally allowed a great deal of free expression and that the mods have swiftly and appropriately dealt with true trolls. But I'm not sure I like the idea of posts being removed just because they offend political sensibilities (or apparently common sense, in that specific case). We seem to do a pretty good job of dealing with those cases out in the open, and I'd prefer to see it stay that way.

[bucko39 21]

To be honest, the whole back and forth between Doro and the mod needs to stop.  I didn't come here to read about two grown men arguing over who is right and who is wrong about something that happened days ago.  Can we just move on?  I would like to get back to discussing Rift, Lotro, etc.

 

Thanks.

[Doro 818]

To be honest, the whole back and forth between Doro and the mod needs to stop.  I didn't come here to read about two grown men arguing over who is right and who is wrong about something that happened days ago.  Can we just move on?  I would like to get back to discussing Rift, Lotro, etc.

 

Thanks.

Who cares what you came here to do? As far as I'm concerned, you can take your opinions and shove them up your arse. I just hope your colon's roomy enough for it all.

[LordVorontur 185]

Who gives cares what you came here to do? As far as I'm concerned, you can take your opinions and shove them up your arse. I just hope your colon's roomy enough for it all.

 

Dude, chillax. You're so worked up you can't even type straight. "Who gives cares what you came here to do?"doesn't really make much sense

[Doro 818]

Dude, chillax. You're so worked up you can't even type straight. "Who gives cares what you came here to do?"doesn't really make much sense

Originally it was much worse. I edited it down myself because it seemed angrier than I actually typed it. Should be read as more astounded, not angry.

[bucko39 21]

Dude, chillax. You're so worked up you can't even type straight. "Who gives cares what you came here to do?"doesn't really make much sense

Doro is on my ignore list but I'm sure he resorted to insults in his reply.  Typical.

[Spidey 123]

So we can't type cunt? Is twat ok? Unless they are said to a female I see no problem with these words, I use them towards men when they deserve it.

 

Can we get a list? You know, like Carlin's 7 words.

[nosam9 211]

Doro is on my ignore list but I'm sure he resorted to insults in his reply.  Typical.

 

Why are you just making trouble? You first post was reasonable, but this issue actually needed to be discussed.

 

Now you are putting down Doro. It doesn't add anything to the thread except a derail.

_______________________________

So we can't type cunt? Is twat ok? Unless they are thrown at a female I see no problem with these words, I use them towards men.

It's context. In the UK is seems some people say cunt all the time. You see no problem with the words? Are you in the UK?

 

In the US, that word is highly offensive, and no one uses it all the time. Seriously. It is a pretty vile word, over here, and is ONLY used towards women in the US in the worst possible way. Nothing is wrong with having some decency and respect towards US readers (and women in the US, who would find this highly offensive).

 

Also, if you really think about it, it is probably somewhat sexist to use in any country - you can't say it is unrelated to women.

[Thunderloin 153]

I don't think anyone has really left because of Darmokk, though.

 

I took 2-3 months off because of his arbitrary mod threats/decisions.  I'd planned to make it permanent, but I got sucked back in a few weeks ago.

 

It'll be difficult to prove if anyone else left because of him, though, because anyone who did and has stayed away is unlikely to be aware of this thread, let alone post in it to say they left.

[Spidey 123]

Why are you just making trouble? You first post was reasonable, but this issue actually needed to be discussed.

 

Now you are putting down Doro. It doesn't add anything to the thread except a derail.

It's context. In the UK is seems some people say cunt all the time. You see no problem with the words? Are you in the UK?

 

In the US, that word is highly offensive, and no one uses it all the time. Seriously. It is a pretty vile word, over here, and is ONLY used towards women in the US in the worst possible way. Nothing is wrong with having some decency and respect towards US readers (and women in the US, who would find this highly offensive).

 

Also, if you really think about it, it is probably somewhat sexist to use in any country - you can't say it is unrelated to women.

You've been here how long and don't know I'm in the US? Some people in the US use the word cunt the same way they do in the UK. It's only a fucking word, it's the context that matters.

[nosam9 211]

It'll be difficult to prove if anyone else left because of him, though, because anyone who did and has stayed away is unlikely to be aware of this thread, let alone post in it to say they left.

 

Acidreign said he also left because of Darmokk's moderation. Maybe someone else can volunteer to be a mod, and Darmokk can step down or take a break. Or maybe Darmokk can agree not to remove posts other then when they are vulgar.

 

I think Darmokk either 1) stepping down from being a mod, or

2) agreeing to not remove posts for being off topic

would be a good solution.