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What the hell is happening to this forum with regards to moderation?


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Acidreign said he also left because of Darmokk's moderation. Maybe someone else can volunteer to be a mod, and Darmokk can step down or take a break. Or maybe Darmokk can agree not to remove posts other then when they are vulgar.

 

I think Darmokk either 1) stepping down from being a mod, or

2) agreeing to not remove posts for being off topic

would be a good solution.

Politicking to be the new mod? I'd leave then.

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Regarding our reputation, my only real concern is that I'd prefer that we not get too nasty towards newcomers and people who still enjoy LOTRO, because we should want fresh faces and new perspectives

Ugh, this is getting stupid.   1. I think some of you are choosing to assume the worst about all of Bucko's posts because some of them come off the wrong way. I didn't see any difference in his c-wo

What I've always liked about this forum is that it has always felt natural. It was a place where conservations could take place. Conversations start on a particular subject and finish on an often comp

"Why are you just making trouble? You first post was reasonable, but this issue actually needed to be discussed. Now you are putting down Doro. It doesn't add anything to the thread except a derail"  There is a certain amount of irony to those sentences all things considered.

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You've been here how long and don't know I'm in the US?

Yeah, I thought you were in the US - but wasn't sure.

 

Maybe we should drop the issue of that word. If the context is a public global forum, then I don't think it is considerate to use that word. People on these forums have asked posters not to use it, and have said they find it offensive. 

Politicking to be the new mod? I'd leave then.

 

No, I am not interested to be a mod, and never said that. 

 

IMO, it is not a good thing that people have left or stopped posting because of the way Darmokk is moderating the forum. I do think Darmokk does a good job in most roles as a moderator, but it seems there is some issue with deleting posts from threads.

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Regarding our reputation, my only real concern is that I'd prefer that we not get too nasty towards newcomers and people who still enjoy LOTRO, because we should want fresh faces and new perspectives even when they could use a little smoothing of rough edges. Beyond that, do I care that some OF lurker here might see a thread derail (the horror!) or some political comment that isn't any different from the goofy comments you see on US news sites? Not one bit. Our reputation is enhanced by our tolerance of a diversity of opinions and ability to handle differences through intelligent conversation. Do we really want people here who would use one or two comments, without taking the responsibility of engaging in further inquiry or dialogue, as a reason not to use this site?

 

I like it when threads wander the same way that face-to-face conversations do, and I don't want to see threads moderated solely for that reason. I would prefer moderation being limited to more serious violations like personal attacks, extreme vulgarity, spam, etc. If someone posts provocative political statements (which people do all the time on every internet forum), either roll your eyes and ignore it or provide an intelligent response and move on. I thought we were supposed to have thick skins here. 

 

This this this!!!

 

I would like to add, that for my taste name-calling and ad hominem is the weakest thing happening (I mean, even when discussing "beloved" managers, often line is crossed and not the actions, but persons are being focused on). Maybe it's healthy sometimes to "let it out", but when its too much, the overall credibility of discussion (which is often high) might be lost, especially by newcomers or outsiders. I kind-of understand what Darmokk is saying of this forum becoming "bigger" in a sense, that it hosts some thoughts and info, which are hard to be found anywhere else. If it "sinks" into too much of "insider chitter" or whatnot, it somehow grows kind-of spam-meat around the bones of essence. ;) On another hand, discussion has to be natural, and its very thin line to balance things out, I guess. 

 

As of swearing - I think its a common sense to say, that if you say even the worst kind of stuff to reinforce your emotion - its fine. If you direct it as an insult to someone - maybe not so much...

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I think we are all adults and can handle seeing a bad word here and there, I probably doubled the word count for the "c-word" in this 1 thread alone in the entire history of these forums, I think it's a non-issue. If I say I find the word prick sexists can I get that black listed too?


 

 

 

 

As of swearing - I think its a common sense to say, that if you say even the worst kind of stuff to reinforce your emotion - its fine. If you direct it as an insult to someone - maybe not so much...

This^^^ to that!

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So we can't type cunt? Is twat ok? Unless they are said to a female I see no problem with these words, I use them towards men when they deserve it.

 

Can we get a list? You know, like Carlin's 7 words. :)

As a female, I'd prefer not to see it, honestly. I recognize that there can be differences in the intent behind the word, but I find it unpleasant and unnecessary, and I'd like to think that adults can express themselves without words like that. It isn't a huge issue for me, and I'm not deeply offended or anything like that, it's merely a preference.

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As a female, I'd prefer not to see it, honestly. I recognize that there can be differences in the intent behind the word, but I find it unpleasant and unnecessary, and I'd like to think that adults can express themselves without words like that. It isn't a huge issue for me, and I'm not deeply offended or anything like that, it's merely a preference.

What she said.

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As a female, I'd prefer not to see it, honestly. I recognize that there can be differences in the intent behind the word, but I find it unpleasant and unnecessary, and I'd like to think that adults can express themselves without words like that. It isn't a huge issue for me, and I'm not deeply offended or anything like that, it's merely a preference.

 

 

What she said.

 

Same here.

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I think, I'm not certain though, that I'd trust this forum oft times to call someone out on a derail or a pointless tangent or being off topic.  If I had to choose a side, I'd lean toward agreeing that is something that the mods could trust the forumites/posters/folks to handle themselves.  IF they felt it was an ongoing issue and contributing to the degradation of a discussion, they could PM a mod for assistance.  That being said, I'm not about to gripe about Darmokk because every forum needs SOME moderation and I see very little being done by others and very little presence from others in general.  I think there has been a good suggestion or two by some others as to handling them without the delete tool.  I find him quicker to address political threads rather than non-political which might be by Muer's design or it might not.

 

That being said, I find it amusing that we discuss moderation and the need of it being used largely for trolling and personal insults and when we see a post like this: 

 

 

Who cares what you came here to do? As far as I'm concerned, you can take your opinions and shove them up your arse. I just hope your colon's roomy enough for it all. 

And there is no moderation, deletion, apparent infraction, warning given by moderators nor an outcry from other posters in general.  Some might call it part of the 'charm' of this forum.  I find it peculiar, though I can't say if I'm for it or against it.  I think the trolling and use of the C-word and profanity goes over the top without being addressed sometimes when it should have, but as this is not an 'official' forum perhaps it works to allow more leeway.  I've accepted it.

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I don't.  What did I miss?

What he said.

 

When this was said:

 

 

Who cares what you came here to do? As far as I'm concerned, you can take your opinions and shove them up your arse. I just hope your colon's roomy enough for it all. 

There was no outcry because it is pretty harmless. No obscene language, no incredible mean words that the person will not recover from. And it's Doro. IMO it just wasn't that bad or deserving of any comment, infraction, deletion etc.

 

Yes, what Doro said is extreme, but I can't see anyone every thinking a post like this should be against rules. Doro is not trolling, he is just responding ... well, in the way he did. Even the new poster he replied was told by the community to ignore Doro's posts like this and not take offense.

 

There is a grain of truth in Doro's post too: it doesn't really matter why Bucko came to this forum. There was clearly a need for this thread, and it is not a great inconvenience to bucko that there is a thread on this topic. To be fair, I also agree with bucko's post in the rest of what he said.

 

Lastly, you can't discount that Doro has gone though a lot recently in that he is the person who has a post war with Darmokk. He is the one whose posts kept getting deleted - I can see anyone getting upset about that.

 

tl;dr  

Doro's post wasn't a big deal, imo.

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No, I didn't really do that as I left out a word for that famous phrase. :)

Spiteful is referring to the "That's what she said" joke that originated from the movie Wayne's World. It's said in response to any innocuous phrase to turn it into something sexual sounding.

But that was not at all my intention and was in fact agreeing with what a fellow female said.

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Some affected parties have made it sound like that but I never proposed or moderated like that.

The whole dustup last week started when I removed a post that was blaming Obama for a 1988 shootdown of an Iranian plane (when the Republicans were in power), in a thread where other members were actively griefing about the victims of the 2014 Dutch shootdown. That was at the very core of what I had said earlier, that I don't tolerate US party bullshit (that is incomprehensible to Europeans anyway) in unreleated threads. Another member then went into meltdown mode spamming all kinds of threads baiting a moderator - never having seen the original post.

And even then, everybody here is free to post that particular theory in a new thread or a more suitable thread if one exists.

The only real change lately is that we (and I mean several moderators) prefer not to use the c-word that is highly offensive in the US and is considered a gender-loaded swearword. Just like racially loaded swearwords we just don't need that here. It makes everybody look bad and lowers the value of the contributions that the overwhelming majority of posters make. What about them? Do they have no rights?

And even then, you have the full dynamic range of the English language at your disposal as long as it isn't a swearword that is racially or gender loaded in one of the major English speaking countries.

 

I am Sorry!

 

Please accept my apologies to everyone in these forums, including the moderators, especially Darmokk.

 

I am a drama queen. (plants Abba, Dancing Queen, into brain)

 

Please understand I was grieving just as much as others in the Flight MA17. It is both Australia and The Netherlands attempting to pick up the body parts amongst shell fire in that hell hole of a Country, Ukraine.

 

I apologise for linking Obama in the thread, though I still do not know why I am apologising.

 

It was neither disgusting nor vulgar, nor trolling.

 

I was never going to mention that post again, I got a Warning over it for heavens sake. I took it on the chin (had a giggle),  attempted to move on, but the Fuck'n thing keeps coming up like a stinky fart that won't go away!

 

Just so you all know, I thought the link between the Reagan Admin and  Obama Admin was not that obtuse.

 

(Republican) Reagan Amin shoots down Iran flight murdering 200+ people. Reagan makes a pitiful non apology deflecting responsibility.

 

The World and UN is upset with US inaction and feet dragging.  

 

(Republican) Bush 1 Administration outright refuses to apologise.

 

(Democratic) Clinton Admin pays a pittance in $$ compensation to families members of those you were burnt to a crisp on that flight (how many babies on that flight?). It took 10 years and three different administrations for the small amount of money to be exchanged.

 

(Democratic) Clinton willfully does not apologise.

 

(Democratic/Communist/Stalinist/) Putin makes some meaningless comment. 

 

(Democratic sort of ?) Ukraine minister of the month points responsibility elsewhere.

 

(Democratic) Obama makes a comment lecturing Russia on inaction and feet dragging.

 

Very little action from USA at Security Council.

 

Australia takes lead in Security Council, and with enormous huge Dutch support, pretty much forced countries to support resolutions.

 

At least Iranians got some compinsation, after waiting half a generation, be lucky if Australians get the bodies back let alone $$.

 

See how the wheel has simply turned here, hence my including an Obama comment in the thread.... which I sooooo regret doing!

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Putting all that aside,  other people had started to pull me back in line.

 

We were Self Moderating.

 

No posts needed to be removed, moved, or be argued about with warnings and bans etc, especially over the past week. The whole thing would have blown over in just a few posts.

 

 

No Presidents were harmed in the making of this Post  O-)

 

CrankyCat

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I think, I'm not certain though, that I'd trust this forum oft times to call someone out on a derail or a pointless tangent or being off topic.  If I had to choose a side, I'd lean toward agreeing that is something that the mods could trust the forumites/posters/folks to handle themselves.  IF they felt it was an ongoing issue and contributing to the degradation of a discussion, they could PM a mod for assistance.  That being said, I'm not about to gripe about Darmokk because every forum needs SOME moderation and I see very little being done by others and very little presence from others in general.  I think there has been a good suggestion or two by some others as to handling them without the delete tool.  I find him quicker to address political threads rather than non-political which might be by Muer's design or it might not.

 

That being said, I find it amusing that we discuss moderation and the need of it being used largely for trolling and personal insults and when we see a post like this: 

 

<strongly worded suggestion, see above>

 

And there is no moderation, deletion, apparent infraction, warning given by moderators nor an outcry from other posters in general.  Some might call it part of the 'charm' of this forum.  I find it peculiar, though I can't say if I'm for it or against it.  I think the trolling and use of the C-word and profanity goes over the top without being addressed sometimes when it should have, but as this is not an 'official' forum perhaps it works to allow more leeway.  I've accepted it.

 

I admit to using the word "charm" before, and I know that the remark you quoted would not make the grade in any charm school worth the name, but that one didn't bother me.  Now that you point it out, it does seem hard to pin down as to why that is.

 

I think for me it comes down to having enough of a history here, both posting and before that, lurking, to know what I can expect from the members here.  You get to know posting styles, and hot buttons, and sore points.  

 

Poke Doro with a stick and that's what you get.  Sometimes words, sometimes pictures, sometimes videos.  I've accepted it too.  

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tl;dr  

Doro's post wasn't a big deal, imo.

I think you and many others have a tendency to discount the idea of how things look from the viewpoint of new arrivals and lurkers.  Perhaps not.  The expectation that everybody, especially newcomers, should buy into the 'That's just so-and-so being so-and-so again' and 'ignore it' is a headscratcher to me.  It seems to work for the most part here, but when someone mentions the 'size' of this forum as if it was some sort of goal, I really scratch my head then.  If I was discussing this forum with someone, amongst the mention of the intelligent and diverse opinions to be found there, I'd call it the Wild West and tell them to enter at their own peril for it suffers no fools nor the faint of heart.

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What he said.

 

When this was said:

There was no outcry because it is pretty harmless. No obscene language, no incredible mean words that the person will not recover from. And it's Doro. IMO it just wasn't that bad or deserving of any comment, infraction, deletion etc.

 

Yes, what Doro said is extreme, but I can't see anyone every thinking a post like this should be against rules. Doro is not trolling, he is just responding ... well, in the way he did. Even the new poster he replied was told by the community to ignore Doro's posts like this and not take offense.

 

There is a grain of truth in Doro's post too: it doesn't really matter why Bucko came to this forum. There was clearly a need for this thread, and it is not a great inconvenience to bucko that there is a thread on this topic. To be fair, I also agree with bucko's post in the rest of what he said.

 

Lastly, you can't discount that Doro has gone though a lot recently in that he is the person who has a post war with Darmokk. He is the one whose posts kept getting deleted - I can see anyone getting upset about that.

 

tl;dr  

Doro's post wasn't a big deal, imo.

What he said.

 

When this was said:

There was no outcry because it is pretty harmless. No obscene language, no incredible mean words that the person will not recover from. And it's Doro. IMO it just wasn't that bad or deserving of any comment, infraction, deletion etc.

 

Yes, what Doro said is extreme, but I can't see anyone every thinking a post like this should be against rules. Doro is not trolling, he is just responding ... well, in the way he did. Even the new poster he replied was told by the community to ignore Doro's posts like this and not take offense.

 

There is a grain of truth in Doro's post too: it doesn't really matter why Bucko came to this forum. There was clearly a need for this thread, and it is not a great inconvenience to bucko that there is a thread on this topic. To be fair, I also agree with bucko's post in the rest of what he said.

 

Lastly, you can't discount that Doro has gone though a lot recently in that he is the person who has a post war with Darmokk. He is the one whose posts kept getting deleted - I can see anyone getting upset about that.

 

tl;dr  

Doro's post wasn't a big deal, imo.

look, I said a few days ago that bringing up the whole moderation/banning issue with Doro would only feed his ego. And that's exactly what happened, and days later he was still going at Darmokk like a spoiled kid who got picked on during recess. So I made my comment, no insults, no foul language, just pretty straight forward. His reply was the exact opposite. Some folks can't let shit go. And quite frankly, the whole thing has put me off. /ignore doesn't work if other folks are posting the insults. And quite frankly I don't have time for the BS.

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I agree with the c-word not being used.  And repeated swearing in post after post should be cleaned up.  Sure drop an F bomb every now and then, ok.  Using that language in every sentence to show frustration is not necessary. 

 

 

Any other words to be forbidden?

 

Mass deletion of all censored words using Word Find 'Delete All' perhaps?

 

Suggestions on how many times per post the 'F bomb' may be used?

 

Perhaps suggestions of some words we can use in lieu of those found unpalatable?

 

Attended any good ol' book burning's lately. :P

 

CrankyCat

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look, I said a few days ago that bringing up the whole moderation/banning issue with Doro would only feed his ego. And that's exactly what happened, and days later he was still going at Darmokk like a spoiled kid who got picked on during recess. So I made my comment, no insults, no foul language, just pretty straight forward. His reply was the exact opposite. Some folks can't let shit go. And quite frankly, the whole thing has put me off. /ignore doesn't work if other folks are posting the insults. And quite frankly I don't have time for the BS.

 

You know you keep saying these kinds of things yet here you are responding.  Please let your actions speak rather than your words.  If you wish to disengage - then for heaven sake just do it and be done with it.  It isn't really that hard if you mean it.

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I think the "size" reference came from the amount of activity we've seen here recently as compared to the OF in the same time period.  

 

Certainly we don't have the amount of topics covered as the OF does, but recently there's been a lot more life signs here than over there.

 

As to the impression we give, I think "Wild West" is an apt description.  

 

look, I said a few days ago that bringing up the whole moderation/banning issue with Doro would only feed his ego. And that's exactly what happened, and days later he was still going at Darmokk like a spoiled kid who got picked on during recess. So I made my comment, no insults, no foul language, just pretty straight forward. His reply was the exact opposite. Some folks can't let shit go. And quite frankly, the whole thing has put me off. /ignore doesn't work if other folks are posting the insults. And quite frankly I don't have time for the BS.

 

And now who is displaying ego?  I thought you had Doro on ignore?  For someone who doesn't have time for the BS, you're spending an awful lot of time making sure we know about it.  

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look, I said a few days ago that bringing up the whole moderation/banning issue with Doro would only feed his ego. And that's exactly what happened, and days later he was still going at Darmokk like a spoiled kid who got picked on during recess. 

 

The only thing is, I can't really see Doro acting like a spoiled kid at all. And the 'feed his ego' thing doesn't make sense either. He has been here for many years and a lot of us know him pretty well now. Trying to put him down like you do in what I quoted, just isn't going to get any sympathy. If you dislike him because of some of his posts to you (which I can understand) then take it up with him, instead of trying to make him look bad, or talking about his ego or saying he is a spoiled kid. I think you don't know him well enough to be able to say much about him. Let's just forget it. I am not blaming you - he can make some strong posts - but I think Doro has every right to bring up the moderation issue. Two respected, long time posters also have said they stopped posting for a while because of moderation issues.

 

Edit:

Bucko, welcome here, join the conversations, contribute.  But I recommend to just ignore Doro. we all know he can make offensive posts - he is also respected here for his many good contributions. 

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Any other words to be forbidden?

 

Mass deletion of all censored words using Word Find 'Delete All' perhaps?

 

Suggestions on how many times per post the 'F bomb' may be used?

 

Perhaps suggestions of some words we can use in lieu of those found unpalatable?

 

Attended any good ol' book burning's lately. :P

 

CrankyCat

This reminds me of those folks who wanted to argue against gay marriage on the grounds that it would lead to people being able to marry their dogs or other non-humans.  Extrapolate to the point of absurdity.

 

Several people ask that it not be used as it is quite possibly the worst word in the English language for many, and you bring up book burning?  It doesn't speak well to your sense of common decency.  Everyone should be able to drop their torches and pitchforks and bite their tongue once in a while to not offend others needlessly.

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