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What the hell is happening to this forum with regards to moderation?


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Any other words to be forbidden?

 

Mass deletion of all censored words using Word Find 'Delete All' perhaps?

 

Suggestions on how many times per post the 'F bomb' may be used?

 

Perhaps suggestions of some words we can use in lieu of those found unpalatable?

 

Attended any good ol' book burning's lately. :P

 

CrankyCat

Overreact much?  It's one word, we have females here that post and they simply don't like it.  I don't see a problem with using another less offensive term? 

Book burnings?  Jesus you'd think it was 1945?

I'm not suggesting gestapo like tactics.  Maybe a friendly reminder?

No one should be attacked either personally.  Attack the post.  If it is flawed most people will back you.  Here you attacked my post good work.  You have your opinion and obviously mine upsets you.  I'm not even sure why, but your treating my opinion as if I'm here to personally attack you and hurt your freedom of expression. 

 

If you're going to drop an F-bomb make it count.  Otherwise the word loses it's meaning real fast.

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Regarding our reputation, my only real concern is that I'd prefer that we not get too nasty towards newcomers and people who still enjoy LOTRO, because we should want fresh faces and new perspectives

Ugh, this is getting stupid.   1. I think some of you are choosing to assume the worst about all of Bucko's posts because some of them come off the wrong way. I didn't see any difference in his c-wo

What I've always liked about this forum is that it has always felt natural. It was a place where conservations could take place. Conversations start on a particular subject and finish on an often comp

Any other words to be forbidden?

 

Mass deletion of all censored words using Word Find 'Delete All' perhaps?

 

Suggestions on how many times per post the 'F bomb' may be used?

 

Perhaps suggestions of some words we can use in lieu of those found unpalatable?

 

Attended any good ol' book burning's lately. :P

 

CrankyCat

I did not ask for it to be forbidden. I merely prefer to engage in conversation with people who don't use language like that, but if you need to say it, that's your business.

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I think at some point we have to look forward.

Future cleanups on my part that you don't like should be reported for review by other moderators. Until 7 days ago the number was negligible and that would be entirely manageable. And I think it will be that way again as I have come to what I think is an agreement with people who flooded this week.

There isn't much question about the racially and sexually sensitive swearwords, though. There are enough expletives left for you to use the full range of the English language, and if that doesn't do it you can invent new ones :)

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There isn't much question about the racially and sexually sensitive swearwords, though. There are enough expletives left for you to use the full range of the English language, and if that doesn't do it you can invent new ones :)

 

You can take that sentiment and bromick it in your flobble.

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Overreact much?  It's one word, we have females here that post and they simply don't like it.  I don't see a problem with using another less offensive term? 

Book burnings?  Jesus you'd think it was 1945?

I'm not suggesting gestapo like tactics.  Maybe a friendly reminder?

No one should be attacked either personally.  Attack the post.  If it is flawed most people will back you.  Here you attacked my post good work.  You have your opinion and obviously mine upsets you.  I'm not even sure why, but your treating my opinion as if I'm here to personally attack you and hurt your freedom of expression. 

 

If you're going to drop an F-bomb make it count.  Otherwise the word loses it's meaning real fast.

 

 

It was your post! however in my reply, I was more than careful not put a  'you' into it.

 

You are are one attempting the dictation of words. I'm simply searching for the parameters you have in mind..

 

and yes, censorship is book burning.

 

This reminds me of those folks who wanted to argue against gay marriage on the grounds that it would lead to people being able to marry their dogs or other non-humans.  Extrapolate to the point of absurdity.

 

Several people ask that it not be used as it is quite possibly the worst word in the English language for many, and you bring up book burning?  It doesn't speak well to your sense of common decency.  Everyone should be able to drop their torches and pitchforks and bite their tongue once in a while to not offend others needlessly.

 

 

I am Gay!...  Go fight your own fight! :)  

 

I admit I am far more right wing than my fellow Fags like me to be, I distrust the Nanny State, Censorship is NO ONES FRIEND! Affirmative Action is a Joke and only creates jealousy and animosity. I happy to stand on my own two feet and rip the fuck'n head right off any red neck (C-Word) who denies my and my mates rights!

 

I have gotten to where I am through hard work and focus. Not because... Oh look, a gay boy.. I like gay boys.. they are so funny and dress really well   FUCK OFF.

 

... and I have a particular hatred toward female red necks, especially the fools you describe. Red Necks don't pick on me for some reason...

 

... and I absolutely love all my straight friends.  I love my female friends, but none of them are Handbags and Fag Hags. They make me cringe. I straddle both worlds in comfort and help others to do the same without getting a Government handout.

 

I use the C Word very rarely, but when I do, I am angry and it is deliberate- it is for Shock and Awe. The C Word, as an interpretation of the Female is amusing to me. Could not be more not the case. Simply does not enter my psyche to think that.

 

Happy to educate you and supply you with words far far more offensive than the C Word, might help you take the edge off the C Word.

 

How many times is the C Word actually been used in these forums. I can think of only a couple of times in the short time I have been a member of these forums, and in amusing situations.

 

Who exactly is over reacting to that word. It is used rarely.

 

I don't like censorship. Full Stop. If you reckon I will sit back and allow it without comment, well... good luck with that.

 

CrankyCat

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I think at some point we have to look forward.

Future cleanups on my part that you don't like should be reported for review by other moderators. Until 7 days ago the number was negligible and that would be entirely manageable. And I think it will be that way again as I have come to what I think is an agreement with people who flooded this week.

There isn't much question about the racially and sexually sensitive swearwords, though. There are enough expletives left for you to use the full range of the English language, and if that doesn't do it you can invent new ones :)

 

 

I have not had much experience with Internet Forums, however I think you are a pretty cool moderator. You are engaging, funny, and have quality opinions. I for one, do not wish you to be a 'hidden in background' dude. How boring would that be.

 

Perhaps I should give you people a list of new words, it might put your so called 'sexually sensitive' (lol) C Word into perspective, on the rare occasions it is actually used.

 

Anyway, you are the God Son of the Forums. Your wish is my command.

 

Darmokk for US Secretary of State.  *O*

 

CrankyCat

 

PS Be careful with the creation of your little Nanny State. It starts with only one little word, rarely used, then grows from there.

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I don't like censorship. Full Stop. If you reckon I will sit back and allow it without comment, well... good luck with that.

 

CrankyCat

I'll try saying this again:

 

 

Everyone should be able to drop their torches and pitchforks and bite their tongue once in a while to not offend others needlessly.

That's not censorship.  It's common decency, respect for others, and a form of consideration.

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I'll try saying this again:

That's not censorship.  It's common decency, respect for others, and a form of consideration.

 

 

OK, yes I get it. When has the 'c word' been used to describe an individual on these forums?

 

I am pretty sure the only person I know is Rick Heaton. Character assassination of that person is our blood sport.

 

You don't appear to be 'Backward coming Forward'. I am sure if I used the 'c word'  inappropriately, you and others would come forward and quite rightly slap me down.

 

No to Forum Moderated Censorship. Yes to Self Censorship (as it should be)

 

No To Censorship. Full Stop.

 

CrankyCat

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This whole thing reminds me of a Lenny Bruce skit. The following is from the movie Lenny Bruce with Dustin Hoffman playing Lenny. As I said this is based on an actual skit, I used this one just because it's actual video and a little clearer than most of the live stuff available.

 

It's to bad people didn't listen to what he was saying back then.

 

(WARNING VERY RACIALLY CHARGED) but with a point and message.

 

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Hey Doro - did your list of links include our meaningless little exchange a few nights ago about you logging in and holding your dick in your hand?  I notice that exchange disappeared rather quickly, under the auspices of it allegedly ruining an otherwise helpful thread for visitors to the site. :)

 

I'll survive the fact that Doro's joke, my joke in response, and his response to that are off in the NeverNever somewhere, but the deletion of those silly little posts helped illustrate that there isn't some narrow category of things which cannot be said, as has been alleged.

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This whole thing reminds me of a Lenny Bruce skit. The following is from the movie Lenny Bruce with Dustin Hoffman playing Lenny. As I said this is based on an actual skit, I used this one just because it's actual video and a little clearer than most of the live stuff available.

 

It's to bad people didn't listen to what he was saying back then.

 

(WARNING VERY RACIALLY CHARGED) but with a point and message.

 

 

Someone gets it.

 

 

Two quotations come to mind with the exact same message.

 

"Repression may be said to produce the object that it comes to deny." - Judith Butler (Gender Trouble).   Or, to put it even simpler:

 

"By opposing something, you maintain it." - Ursula LeGuin (The Left Hand of Darkness)

 

How one reacts to something determines how it's perceived. Censorship constructs the very monsters it purports to condemn. Certain things have power to offend only because people keep giving them that power.

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Someone gets it.

 

 

Two quotations come to mind with the exact same message.

 

"Repression may be said to produce the object that it comes to deny." - Judith Butler (Gender Trouble).   Or, to put it even simpler:

 

"By opposing something, you maintain it." - Ursula LeGuin (The Left Hand of Darkness)

 

How one reacts to something determines how it's perceived. Censorship constructs the very monsters it purports to condemn. Certain things have power to offend only because people keep giving them that power.

 

 

Indeed!

 

Those supporting the creation of the Nanny Forum, take heed.

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"By opposing something, you maintain it." - Ursula LeGuin (The Left Hand of Darkness)

 

Tell me, how would have "not opposing" South African Apartheid, or slavery, or lack of women's rights in the early 1900s, or racism in the US against blacks, have worked out?

 

That is just foolishness. If someone stood up to racism in the south in the US - clear racism - and then someone came along and said "opposing it, just maintains it, blah blah, blah" it would be a worthless statement.

 

The whole point is, some of you, and many people - at least in the US - want to completely deny sexism and racism exists. Or want to say well it exists in some extreme cases, but in general, it does not exist at all. 

 

Saying using a term like "cunt" is not sexist, or not part of a historically, widespread system of sexism - is just denying it, probably because you have never really learned or thought about sexism in any deep way. I am not saying using that word is wrong inherently, or means the user has a bad intent, but it is clearly part of a system of sexism that is embodied in our language. 

 

Of course some of you will deny that, and try to say words have no power. But that is exactly the state of sexism and racism in the US today. It exists. Women experience it. And a ton of people don't understand it, and minimize it, and deny it, and try to justify their actions as being totally blameless.

 

Someone raised in a society with a ton of sexism in the language, may not be so much to blame, but you can say that them taking part in it, using sexist language, has no effect. Think of a kid using very racist language in the US south 60 years ago. Sure, you can decide to not blame the kid, but you can't deny their language is racist and can have a quite bad effect (and is part of a larger system/general practice of racism in their culture).

 

So honestly, I would say you don't "get it" and are just making excuses for bad behavior. If you use sexist language, you are perpetuating a bad system that is oppressive. 

 

People who are not affected by sexism, or racism (and some who are affected) really want to tell themselves there is nothing wrong with their actions - that they are blameless. Most people want to hear and tell others a story that makes nothing wrong with their actions.

 

Ultimately, if you say something sexist, or racist - it is sexist or racist. Context or intent is not an excuse.

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Hey Doro - did your list of links include our meaningless little exchange a few nights ago about you logging in and holding your dick in your hand?  I notice that exchange disappeared rather quickly, under the auspices of it allegedly ruining an otherwise helpful thread for visitors to the site. :)

 

I'll survive the fact that Doro's joke, my joke in response, and his response to that are off in the NeverNever somewhere, but the deletion of those silly little posts helped illustrate that there isn't some narrow category of things which cannot be said, as has been alleged.

Yup, they were included.

And I should clarify my post to bucko with the Wayne's World pic. I just found it amazing that a person who's been here for, what, a week? He decides to enter a thread about moderation to tell everyone that he doesn't want to see talk of moderation and that we should stop it. I mean fuck, that's a level of ego I can never aspire to :P

Also, if 'cunt' is off the table, does that mean 'dick' is too?

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Also, if 'cunt' is off the table, does that mean 'dick' is too?

 

I like Doro*. No sarcasm. 

 

In Poland we reserve the use of "cunt" for men. And yes, it's supposed to insult them. 

As far as women are concerned - we mainly use "kurwa" (whore) - an all-purpose word really. 

"Nigger" is widespread, though endearing. Honest. Kind of "Yo, bitches" variety. 

 

 

Self-moderation here is sufficient. 

 

 

 

Autrefois, quand j'étais marmot

J'avais la phobie des gros mots

Et si j'pensais " merde " tout bas

Je ne le disais pas

Mais

Aujourd'hui que mon gagne-pain

C'est d'parler comme un turlupin

Je n'pense plus " merde ", pardi

Mais je le dis

R:

J'suis l'pornographe

Du phonographe

Le polisson

De la chanson

Afin d'amuser la gal'rie

Je crache des gauloiseries

Des pleines bouches de mots crus

Tout à fait incongrus

Mais

En m'retrouvant seul sous mon toit

Dans ma psyché j'me montre au doigt

Et m'crie: " Va t'faire, homme incorrec'

Voir par les Grecs "

+R:

Tous les sam'dis j'vais à confess'

M'accuser d'avoir parlé d'fess's

Et j'promets ferme au marabout

De les mettre tabou

Mais

Craignant, si je n'en parle plus

D'finir à l'Armée du Salut

Je r'mets bientôt sur le tapis

Les fesses impies

+R:

Ma femme est, soit dit en passant

D'un naturel concupiscent

Qui l'incite à se coucher nue

Sous le premier venu

Mais

M'est-il permis, soyons sincèr's

D'en parler au café-concert

Sans dire qu'elle a, suraigu

Le feu au cul ?

+R:

J'aurais sans doute du bonheur

Et peut-être la Croix d'Honneur

A chanter avec décorum

L'amour qui mène à Rom'

Mais

Mon ang' m'a dit : " Turlututu

Chanter l'amour t'est défendu

S'il n'éclôt pas sur le destin

D'une putain "

+R:

Et quand j'entonne, guilleret

A un patron de cabaret

Une adorable bucolique

Il est mélancolique

Et

Me dit, la voix noyée de pleurs

" S'il vous plaît de chanter les fleurs

Qu'ell's poussent au moins rue Blondel

Dans un bordel "

+R:

Chaque soir avant le dîner

A mon balcon mettant le nez

Je contemple les bonnes gens

Dans le soleil couchant

Mais

N'me d'mandez pas d'chanter ça, si

Vous redoutez d'entendre ici

Que j'aime à voir, de mon balcon

Passer les cons

+R:

Les bonnes âmes d'ici bas

Comptent ferme qu'à mon trépas

Satan va venir embrocher

Ce mort mal embouché

Mais

Mais veuille le grand manitou

Pour qui le mot n'est rien du tout

Admettre en sa Jérusalem

A l'heure blême

Le pornographe

Du phonographe

Le polisson

De la chanson

 

 

 

 

*One of these days I'm going to start a flame war with him. No time now.

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Acidreign said he also left because of Darmokk's moderation. Maybe someone else can volunteer to be a mod, and Darmokk can step down or take a break. Or maybe Darmokk can agree not to remove posts other then when they are vulgar.

 

I think Darmokk either 1) stepping down from being a mod, or

2) agreeing to not remove posts for being off topic

would be a good solution.

That's right. In fact just the other day in the sap leaving post, i used the "c" word, Darm pm'ed me telling me it was offensive in the US . WTF? I am in Sin city USA, thats las vegas to those of you that dont know what that means. I dont know where it came from that we dont use it, are offended by it, or any of that shit. Just where the hell did this come from anyways? WTF? So whatever, i changed out cunt for twat just to get em off my ass. I would still like to know who bitched and got these mods here thinking they know whats best for our tender ears here in the USA? Never heard of such an excuse.

 

Pssst.... Wanna know a secret? We are all big boys here in the states.... we can handle it. But thanks though for protecting my tender ears, not that i needed it, but thanks anyway.

 

/facepalm

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It is women who are offended by that word.

Being a "big boy" doesn't make you an authority on what is offensive to women, any more than being white allows me to tell minorities what insulting names ("nigger", "kike", "spic", etc) they're allowed to be offended by.

In this case, I think a PM is an appropriate moderator action. Polite people don't wish to give offense to others. If you were a polite person, you would be grateful. If you want to advertise that you're rude and insensitive to others, then just keep using it.

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Because there has been no effective moderation here for so long, to try and now enforce anything other than an arbitrary behavioural code is pointless .This forum has for better or for worse, found its level.

 

The majority of those that post here on a regular basis, have mutually reached their own level of discourse and that is now the gold standard here. If the majority are happy to communicate with each other in a certain way, then so be it. Any chance of the forums becoming a "broader church" have long gone but I think all concerned parties are fully aware of this and don't care for the notion.

 

This is a frontier saloon bar and expectations should be set accordingly.

 

Plus I believe there was a thread here once in which a considerable group of posters stated that they were on the spectrum in some capacity. This is another factor that shapes social interaction on these forums. (An observation and not a value judgement).

 

This is very much a niche community. Most people here have got the measure of each other. Therefore when person A pursues a certain line of argument or behaves in a specific way towards person B, should we really be that surprised?

 

As you know, there are many lurkers here. I have spoken to quite a few and one recently told me that its actually a good thing that forums such as the LOTRO Community exists. Because while you're all "busy shitting in your own waterhole, you're not spoiling anyone else's". (This was not a reference to the official LOTRO forums). Make of that what you will.

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Very late to the conversation here, one thing I always liked about this forum (i read a lot before I started posting) was its self moderation and the fact that the official moderators were not "celebrities" on here they were more seen but not heard characters, that has to be the way its done, let the forum moderate itself and only use your official mod powers in extreme cases, and make it clear when you have done, this quietly deleting and censoring of threads is the reason why the other forum turned so sour.

 

The very best thing about this forum is we are allowed to be adults and no-one is afraid to tell you that your being a dick when you are being a dick, people come to this site because of that, they flock here from the OF to get away from that kindergarten attitude , no-one is suggesting you can say what you want, but let the people on the forum tell people when its too far and then have the moderators act after that if needed.

 

Darmokk himself  mentioned that this site is bigger than the OF now, but did you stop and think why that is? if you start modding this site like that site was modded what do you think will happen?

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This is very much a niche community. Most people here have got the measure of each other. Therefore when person A pursues a certain line of argument or behaves in a specific way towards person B, should we really be that surprised?

 

As you know, there are many lurkers here. I have spoken to quite a few and one recently told me that its actually a good thing that forums such as the LOTRO Community exists. Because while you're all "busy shitting in your own waterhole, you're not spoiling anyone else's". (This was not a reference to the official LOTRO forums). Make of that what you will.

 

Good. I post here because of the people who make up this community. If I wanted to post on a huge faceless 3rd party mmo site there's always MMO Champion for that. That lotrocommunity is a reflection of us is what makes it unique and long may it continue to be.

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