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gamer gate this is what happened to LOTRO and why it changed when WB bought it


Ifreborn
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No, that's why I added IIRC :D

 

ah, well...

 

here it is in visual form:

 

DDO Launches FTP September 9, 2009.

DDO_FTP_zps423d7675.png

 

 

Warner acquires Turbine, April 10, 2010

Turbine_Acquisition_zps4d4591fa.png

 

Lotro goes FTP, September 10, 2010

Lotro_FTP_zpsa31c943e.png

 

does that match your recollection?

 

...

 

anyway, to the subject of the thread...  *sigh*

 

i am not seeing the connection outlining how this new movement has infiltrated Warner Bros.

 

or how they influenced the purchase of Turbine.

 

do you have statements from this group, or some other evidence that links up time frame wise; other than, "they are out there & operating an agenda...  therefore all change can be attributed too..."

 

sorry mate, just not seeing the connection.

 

i'm gonna need a whole lot more hard data to be convinced.

 

and in some of those timeline events videos...  did they not happen after Warners purchase?  the fishbowl DIGRA conference happened August 2014.

 

how did that "proto-genesis-panel-discussion-conversation" somehow link up with Warner purchasing Turbine 4 years earlier in 2010?

 

i am not seeing the connection based on what you've provided so far...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZAxwsg9J9Q

 

whilst i see no connection whatsoever to Warner purchasing Turbine...   i don't want to leave you out to dry completely.

 

so here is something you may see as either ironic, or amusing... or both.

 

https://twitter.com/josswhedon/status/504508687722250240

 

juxtaposed this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvDg8VeGWJs

 

even though that is her oldest video from May of 2009... aside from an overarching theme... no direct connection, sorry.

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again, what is the connection?

 

interviewer asks if Warner bought Turbine for free to play

 

kate responds, "there are a lot of other things as well"

 

how is that remotely connected?

 

let me draw up a really obvious list of those other things:

 

- North Americas largest independent developer (at the time)

- 2 franchise licenses (one of which they explicitly state they were seeking to garner control of)

- an existing & experienced production & development team

- an east coast hub ideally located for recruitment

- an existing infrastructure (server farm.)

 

and yet you want me to conclude, those other things somehow included a connection to a DIGRA session that happened in 2014?

 

i can produce a host of articles and press releases related to my bullet points above.

 

were is the link, that is the smoking gun that Kate was referring what you imply?

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I think the black hole of data and specifically the FTP data they had on the players was worth a lot of money to Warner.

 

turbine was the first company of size to take on FTP in the mainstream video game market.  

 

look at ZNGA and the buzz they generated and look at the eventual crash of their value.  Turbine was to main stream video games as ZNGA was to browser games.  

 

Turbine should have taken the IPO route and really cashed in.  They missed the boat if they timed it right they could have priced in the billions.

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I think the black hole of data and specifically the FTP data they had on the players was worth a lot of money to Warner.

 

ok, but how does that relate to gamer gate?

 

i can grant that they purchased a user-base...  it happens all the time.

 

information has value, in the right hands.

 

i can even grant a test bed argument.

 

but how does that connect to gamer gate?

 

you've asserted a connection, but i find the timelines don't lend well to support your argument.

 

even the paper on, "what is a gamer, how does that relate to feminist theory"  is from 2013.  before the 2014 DIGRA conference & the eruption of "gamers are dead" articles, but well after Warners purchase of Turbine.

 

do you have anything substantive to make the connection, because otherwise, the mere assertion, is rather empty.

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I'm all for a good, well-informed conspiracy theory, but I have no idea what you're getting at here, dude.

 

What does Big Data and companies willingness to sell our information have to do with a "scandal" that only became newsworthy because some jilted asshole posted a psycho rant online and tried to enlist 4chan to help him ruin his ex's life?

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Well the next question is how does turbine look at a player/gamer/customer  how has it changed over time? What role did FTP play on this, what groups and people were at the forefront of FTP, what were their views of the world, games and the people who play?

 

Did we see a change in treatment? Can it be tied to a broader movement in the industry?  

 

Is it a conspiracy?  I think not! and never said it was.  It is an in your face full frontal assault.

 

 

The game industry was bought off and it soul was sucked out and now we have an industry that mirrors it's master AKA the companies that run it.  

 

All you have to do is read what these developers, Press and companies say about the players and how they treat you.

 

Sapience is not the exception he is turning into the norm in the industry and they are trying to create an environment were you cant complain anywhere on the internet about it.

 

Players don't have rights it is a privilege after all......

the the industry want full control of your actions both in and out of game. that does not mix well with game design and creativity and it is starting to show....

 

But remember, if you don't like it you have the right to shut up and never be heard.  

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Is it a conspiracy?  I think not! and never said it was.

'... but the current state of video game and the social and behavioral data they collect is being mined and used agents the population as a weapon of mas destruction.'

Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

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lol you have a problem with my attitude AND with what I post.  Anything else you dont like?  

 

Strict OF are that way -----> for controlled discussions on limited topics.  

 

My post was VERY on topic about a money grubbing move WB made that I agree with, s to make sure you approve of them both in content and context.  orry you dont like it I will now ask for your permissions for all posts

 

For the last time, it is an issue to me, if you dont like...ohh well,. I dont care.

No issue at all with what you post, that seems to be something you have invented in your own imagination. I was just wanting to know why people still bring up a member of staff that now has nothing to do with the company. I did take issue with your attitude in the reply which you quoted me, felt it was unnecessarliy aggresive and petty. You can not expect to be taken seriously when at the slighest disagreement you come out with - "to make sure you approve of them both in content and context.  orry you dont like it I will now ask for your permissions for all posts" (sic).

 

You say you don't care and yet react agressively when someone goes disagrees with you. Please remember that this is not the Sapience/Turbine/WB bashing forum and was never intended to be. It was first and foremost a home away from home for the old Codies forums once they where closed.

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But if that stone kills a fish it is still dead :P

exaclty the damage is done, discussed and picked apart ad nausem. Time to move on from him and look at why things continue to not be right with the game. I say the game becasue the forums seem to have been relaxed a little allowing for some criticism and constructive discussion.

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You have a game that created a ton of content, mostly gimmicky stuff, eg, pets, BBs, mounted combat, etc.  They can't throw that stuff away.  I guess they could but that would be throwing time and money down the drain, and although turbine as of late has seemed rather challenged on how to make money, they certainly aren't stupid enough to throw it away.  A larger population of the game, than may have been ever before, love those gimmicks, love being followed around by a  swan that does nothing, or frog, or shrew.  They have found a way to bring in added revenue by adding these trite additions.The game's "downfall" has absolutely nothing to do with some grand scheme by anti-gamer feminist movements and the like.  If anything this game embraces women by having a ton of things women stereotypically like. Lots of neat clothes, cute pets to love and show off.  I would say out of any game I have ever played there is a huge population of women playing.  I suppose you can argue that these changes are because of gamergate or whatever, but honestly, it's cuz it's cheap to produce.  and cheap to replicate.  

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You have a game that created a ton of content, mostly gimmicky stuff, eg, pets, BBs, mounted combat, etc.  They can't throw that stuff away.  I guess they could but that would be throwing time and money down the drain, and although turbine as of late has seemed rather challenged on how to make money, they certainly aren't stupid enough to throw it away.  A larger population of the game, than may have been ever before, love those gimmicks, love being followed around by a  swan that does nothing, or frog, or shrew.  They have found a way to bring in added revenue by adding these trite additions.The game's "downfall" has absolutely nothing to do with some grand scheme by anti-gamer feminist movements and the like.  If anything this game embraces women by having a ton of things women stereotypically like. Lots of neat clothes, cute pets to love and show off.  I would say out of any game I have ever played there is a huge population of women playing.  I suppose you can argue that these changes are because of gamergate or whatever, but honestly, it's cuz it's cheap to produce.  and cheap to replicate.  

You need to revisit your female gamer stereotypes, also neither me nor my group of "girl gamer" friends are aware of any anti-gamer feminist movements. They don't even have them on mumsnet and they are anti everything. Most of these things are invented in mens minds as a way to justify their exisitence as men would never want anything such as a swan following them around..... B) Don't forget you men that it has taken a very long time for you not to be seen a spotty little weeds in basements, So please don't now pass the buck on to us.

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You need to revisit your female gamer stereotypes, also neither me nor my group of "girl gamer" friends are aware of any anti-gamer feminist movements. They don't even have them on mumsnet and they are anti everything. Most of these things are invented in mens minds as a way to justify their exisitence as men would never want anything such as a swan following them around..... B) Don't forget you men that it has taken a very long time for you not to be seen a spotty little weeds in basements, So please don't now pass the buck on to us.

 

You may have misread what he meant when he said anti-gamer feminist movement.

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You need to revisit your female gamer stereotypes, also neither me nor my group of "girl gamer" friends are aware of any anti-gamer feminist movements. They don't even have them on mumsnet and they are anti everything. Most of these things are invented in mens minds as a way to justify their exisitence as men would never want anything such as a swan following them around..... B) Don't forget you men that it has taken a very long time for you not to be seen a spotty little weeds in basements, So please don't now pass the buck on to us.

 

The whole #gamergate thing is a ridiculous soap opera to be honest but if you were interested, some background here;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

 

http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/6/6111065/gamergate-explained-everybody-fighting

 

I have no idea what it has to do with the OPs posts, but to be honest I have no real idea wtf the OPs point is.

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The whole #gamergate thing is a ridiculous soap opera to be honest but if you were interested, some background here;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

 

http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/6/6111065/gamergate-explained-everybody-fighting

 

I have no idea what it has to do with the OPs posts, but to be honest I have no real idea wtf the OPs point is.

It sounds like a guy got dumped and decided to ask some trolls to make his exes life difficult. I thought people moved out of this after infant school. But you are correct i have no idea what it has to do with LOTRO or gaming on a larger scale. Perhaps it just passed me by while i was looking at my new swan that follows me around.....

You may have misread what he meant when he said anti-gamer feminist movement.

Perhaps i did but then it would be easy to misread when my head is turned by ton of things women stereotypically like. Lots of neat clothes, cute pets to love....

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The whole #gamergate thing is a ridiculous soap opera to be honest but if you were interested, some background here;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

 

http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/6/6111065/gamergate-explained-everybody-fighting

 

I have no idea what it has to do with the OPs posts, but to be honest I have no real idea wtf the OPs point is.

 

Easypeasy: Gamergate is a ploy by WB to destroy LOTRO's raiding community.

There's always truth to stereotypes.

 

Oh true.

 

There however is this unique human trait: for each stereotype that does not apply to us as an individual, there are two who totally fit.

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I thought WB bought Turbine because of the F2P model they were already using on DDO in September 2009? It would be doing a disservice if we made it look like it's WB's fault Turbine was greedy, not just Turbine's initial greed drawing them in.

Well, as I recall the discussion back in the day there were quite a few people who said that another major reason for WB to buy Turbine was that they wanted to experiment with different ways to do f2p.

Which means, to experiment with different ways to "make" people buy optional items in the store, where "make" obviously means to do something between the carrot and the stick, the stick being to make the game very annoying without some specific item that you have to buy in the store.

The way that things have worked out I would say it fits this theory. LOTRO has been experimenting with the stick extensively after f2p was introduced. As introduced I liked the the game with f2p quite a bit better than before, because they finally allowed me to cut through some BS with some money. It turned sour a very short time later, though.

Depending on your viewpoint and on the language you use you can make a point that social experiments were conducted, and in a quite different context (worse, IMHO) than e.g. Amazon playing around with prices and positioning.

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I think the black hole of data and specifically the FTP data they had on the players was worth a lot of money to Warner.

 

turbine was the first company of size to take on FTP in the mainstream video game market.  

 

look at ZNGA and the buzz they generated and look at the eventual crash of their value.  Turbine was to main stream video games as ZNGA was to browser games.  

 

Turbine should have taken the IPO route and really cashed in.  They missed the boat if they timed it right they could have priced in the billions.

 

I have an slight issue with your claim.. "Turbine was the first company of size to take on FTP in the mainstream video game market"

 

F2P Games had been around for a good 10 years, especially in South Korea and China. There were games being played in South Korea and China that were F2P and had more players then Lotro could ever dream off long before Lotro was even released. 

 

China is now the largest online gaming market and is still growing. You could argue that if you go by numbers, Southern Asia is the mainstream. 

 

What you should of said was Turbine were the first Western Based Developer to change an existing MMO from Subscription to a Hybrid F2P model. 

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