Jump to content
LOTROCommunity
Sign in to follow this  
mtones

Champion System Changes

Recommended Posts

Hoping those of you with more experience than I can comment on this "system" plan.  My MMO xp is limited to my many years only in LotrO, then GW2, Rift, Secret World, and now ESO.  None seem to work on the basis of what is being proposed here and it just seems borked to me to approach end game progression in this manner but maybe I am just being short-sighted?

 

Comments appreciated

 

Champion System and Future Veteran Experience

 

At this point Paul Sage took over assisted by Maria Aliprando to discuss the future roll of veteran systems and advancement with the new Champion System.

 

The Champion System

 

We can’t just put the Champion System on top of the current advancement system. -Paul Sage

 

ZOS has to balance making players stronger with providing an ample challenge to players. This means a complete re-balance of game and ability mechanics is necessary. Current granularity of stats does not fit well with the addition of small percentage bonuses. Adding a 1% bonus on top of a base level of 40 isn’t meaningful to the player. Simply adding points to soft-capped abilities would be bad.

 

Benefits of the Current Systems

  • Helps to prevent “bad builds”
  • Freedom of how to play – allows players to go over limits

Problems with the Current System

  • Trade-offs are not pronounced
  • Too easy to hit soft caps
  • Balance is harder

Solutions:

  • All your character’s stats, attributes, and damage values will be multiplied by 10 (for example, a Health of 2,500 would become a Health of 25,000). This will allow small percentage bonuses to realize a visible impact on your character’s stat lines.
  • Soft caps are being removed entirely.
  • Impose some limits – for example, Armor (Physical resistance) caps out at 50% mitigation. On live right now, this would equate to roughly 3,000 armor.
  • Each source of benefit to a certain stat has it’s own caps. For example, buffs, equipment, traits, and more will each have their own independent maxima to contributing towards the overall limit.
  • Once these changes are in place, the numbers in abilities, items, enchantments, weapons, etc… will all need to be changed.
  • Compute rate limits (DPS and damage prevention)
  • Adjust NPC and monster stats and abilities

What does this mean?

  • You’ll have to make commitments to be the best in a particular area.
  • More varied builds, better interdependence between builds.
  • Some abilities will have to change, i.e. armor buffs won’t stack
  • Itemization will be much more important.
  • The dynamics of combat will change, particularly at max-level.

System Rebalance Questions

 

How will the de-composition of stat caps vary by class which have access to different ranges of buff abilities?

 

The composition of the cap composition will not change by class, so it will not be possible for everyone to max out everything. Certain classes may have a slight advantage at reaching the theoretical maximum in certain areas.

 

When might we see this?

 

“When it’s ready”. It’s too hard to put a firm date on this right now given the scope of these changes.

 

How will more casual players react to the scope of these changes?

 

We hope that the way these changes are constructed will make character construction feel more meaningful and significant, so some things will be different, for example light armor wearers will probably feel a bit more squishy in the new system, but by the same token heavy armor will feel more significant. The changes are making trade-offs more meaningful.

 

 What kind of challenges will this system involve for educating players on where their stats are coming from and helping them understand how the new system works without having to show them a PowerPoint presentation?

 

The reality is that most players don’t really care too much, and they simply trust that their stats are adding naturally. This will actually be a fairly natural system since the caps in place prevent you from ever getting “too much” of a certain stat.

 

 

Champion System

Maria Aliprando took over diving into the details of the champion system, a new account-wide system that allows your characters to evolve and progress past level 50. You spend champion points in nine constellations. All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned, but your points can be spent on a per-character basis.

  • Champion experience is earned through regular XP, so it’s very transparent and the system makes sense.
  • Earned veteran ranks will convert into champion XP, but there will be a maximum on the amount that will be allowed to convert.
  • All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned.
  • You will be able to respec your choices regarding how you spend the champion points.
  • Update 5 will reduce the passive stat boosts from veteran ranks, but grant attribute and skill points for the player to choose how to spend.

The champion system will be introduced, and at first both the Champion and Veteran systems will co-exist for a short time, with the ultimate goal of replacing Veteran entirely. In update 5, Veteran Ranks will be converted from VP to XP, so experience points will be the currency for character advancement throughout.

You will spend your champion points in any of 9 constellations:

  • Health (Warrior, Lord, and Lady)
  • Magicka (Mage, Ritual, and Atronach)
  • Stamina (Tower, Lover, and Thief)

Each time you spend a champion point, the constellation “rotates” and you must spend your next champion point in a tree belonging to the next type. This doesn’t force you into a particular gameplay style, however, as there are nodes relevant to every possible playstyle in each of the three constellation branches.

 

Each constellation has certain passive bonuses that you will unlock once you have invested a threshold number of points into that constellation. For example, putting 10+ points into the Atronach constellation gives you an additional bonus named “Merchant’s Favor”. If you spend 100 points in The Lord constellation you earn Last Stand, which grants increased ultimate when you fall below 20% Health. There are special passive unlocks at 10, 20, 30, 50, and 100 point investments.

 

The bonuses themselves are minor in isolation, but collectively will make a significant difference to your character. For example, Stout in the Warrior tree reduces the duration which the player is stunned.

 

Each individual Champion bonus can have up to 700 champion points applied to it:

We envision it will take you about an hour to earn a champion point – Paul Sage

A big concern of the champion system is to prevent it from creating a huge separation between players who have earned a lot of champion points and those who have not, both in terms of power and in terms of potential.

  • Champion points are more meaningful in the beginning of the system – the value of each champion point degrades as you invest further into a specific skill. For example, the first point you spend in Light Armor gives you a +1.0% bonus to armor, but the 40th point only gives you +0.1%.
  • This encourages players to diversify their points towards the beginning of earning Champion points.
  • This prevents players who come late to the system from being irrecoverably far behind veteran players.
  • There is a new system, called Enlightenment, which boosts the experience earned towards a champion point. Your account accumulates Enlightenment as long as you have a level 50 character. This prevents there from being a penalty from playing low-level alts. Your level 50 main will earn Enlightment during that time. Additionally, this will help out players who don’t have as many hours per day to play ESO. Taking time away from doing XP granting activities to craft, roleplay, or just hang out won’t penalize you too much because you will earn Enlightenment during that time helping you get your next champion points more quickly. Seems like it functions similarly to “rested XP” in other games.

 

Champion System Questions

 

How do you plan to handle content gating using the new system and how players will know which tier of endgame content is appropriate for them?

 

The details of this are still being brainstormed, but some ideas that might happen include some sort of “champion rating”, increased character levels, or some other sort of indication to the player as to what they should be working on.

 

With this paradigm shift to a more horizontal based progression system, what are the implications for Cadwell’s gold/silver as well as the vertical progression structure which currently exists in veteran dungeons and trials?

 

We (ZOS) are leaning heavily towards getting rid of the barrier between gold/silver content and giving the player the choice at 50 to tackle that content in any order they choose. As for veteran dungeons, these will be able to be scaled to your party’s desired level. In terms of trails, we’ll be sticking with a vertical progression model in terms of trial difficulty and itemization, but trying to keep an easier on-ramp for players wanting to get started.

 

What is your stance on the visibility of champion levels, do you want a character’s champion progress to be public knowledge?

 

We’re playing with different sets of iconography to represent a character’s Champion achievement visually within the UI. There’s a lot of potential also for Champion Ratings as a composite statistic based both on their champion rating as well as the attribute levels of an enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On paper (ehrm, screen) it looks good, but it's impossible to say for sure until it's in the game.

VR ranks (and more importantly their raises of VR cap) was one of the things that drove me away, so if this turns out good, I will probably come back to try it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checked out Atropos reports from the Guild Summit and I must say that there seems to be a lot of nice changes coming to ESO

The highlights (from my perspective)

*2H getting buffed

*Soft caps removed (buff to heavy armour)

*Balancing stamina/magicka abilities

*AoE cap removal

*Justice system (and thereby open world pvp if you flag yourself for it)

*Champion system, although it's hard to really make a judgement until we see it live. Hard to make it any worse than the VR system tho.

*Dungeons scaled up to give relevant loot.

I might have to resub, not now perhaps, but atleast when we're getting near the implementation of some of this stuff.

Edit: Just found this: http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=9003&page=1

Edit2: I may have linked the mobile version

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like they are making ESO like every other game and it's becoming more apparent that they didn't have a clue on how to make an MMO from the start, as I've mentioned many times.

 

This caught my attention:

 

 What kind of challenges will this system involve for educating players on where their stats are coming from and helping them understand how the new system works without having to show them a PowerPoint presentation?

 

The reality is that most players don’t really care too much, and they simply trust that their stats are adding naturally. This will actually be a fairly natural system since the caps in place prevent you from ever getting “too much” of a certain stat.

 

Are they fucking joking? Min/maxxers, raiders, and PvPers don't care about where their stats come from?

 

I wonder if Zeni and Bethesda will ever figure out what they are doing.

 

So I guess building your toon your way is out the window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checked out Atropos reports from the Guild Summit and I must say that there seems to be a lot of nice changes coming to ESO

The highlights (from my perspective)

*2H getting buffed

*Soft caps removed (buff to heavy armour)

*Balancing stamina/magicka abilities

*AoE cap removal

*Justice system (and thereby open world pvp if you flag yourself for it)

*Champion system, although it's hard to really make a judgement until we see it live. Hard to make it any worse than the VR system tho.

*Dungeons scaled up to give relevant loot.

I might have to resub, not now perhaps, but atleast when we're getting near the implementation of some of this stuff.

Edit: Just found this: http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=9003&page=1

Edit2: I may have linked the mobile version

 

Yeah I have been following all the guild summit info at TF, including participating in a Q&A chat last night about some of these changes in particular, so after they all explained what was presented I do feel a lot more interested in where things are going. I got a lot of my questions answered by the group which was really nice, so I felt some satisfaction in getting more direct info.  The chat was about 2.5hr so don't know if anyone wants to see any of it (link here) but it was good to know that at least this group sees them as caring deeply about the game and are committed to listening to the players to make it better.

 

That being said, I do agree with Spidey in that it just really feels like they just don't seem to fiugure things out well.  The game just feel like one big beta still - even if an interesting one.  Guess we'll have to wait it out and see if this turns into the game we had really hoped for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×