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The truth comes out Part 2 (about moderation on Official Forum)


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Sapience was a ego-maniacal dickhead on a power trip. Honestly, I can't see how anyone could possibly want to try to excuse his behaviour.

lol

Find one phrase where I did that.  You can twist everything I say to make me sound like a Richard Heaton defender but quite clearly I never excused his behavior. 

 

Perhaps you missed the below:

 

 

 

I said he was doing his job.  I never said he did it well.  I won't deny anything you have said about him.  Maybe I just don't take it as seriously as you did.  I never said Richard Heaton never hurt the community.   There were many times after reading his responses, that I wondered why he was not fired.   But I didn't let it bother me.

 

Feel free to disagree, I could care less.   Was he a dick at times?   Yup.

 

 

You guys should know well by now I believe lots of things he has said over the years has been at the detriment to the community.  For me this started with his fake raid numbers, up until his we will no longer talk about raids quote.   We are all going to have different degrees to which we believe he is responsible for this detriment.  

 

With that said I won't condone most of the things he has done, from the troll like way he addressed players to the way he pitted players against one another.  I think it was just his way of taming the lion.  I won't defend his methods.  Actually his methods were downright villainous at times.  From straight out lying to attacking players.  Our only difference of opinion I see is in his motives.  Some people think he put himself above the community.   I simply think he put the company he works for above the community.  If that's being selfish then yeah he was. 

 

 

You think Kate Paiz liked hearing about how her expansions were total shit by her own players?  Do you think it was going to help future sales of turbine products to have players trashing just about every aspect of the game?  They can't control it on the third party sites but they can on their own moderated site.    While I think all the complaints were mostly true,   I can see a community manager over reacting to such an event, especially when it gets way out of control.  Once again I won't condone his actions as professional or appropriate.  I just have a different outlook than, the idiot was putting himself above the community.

More proof people only read what they want.   I never excused his behavior, I simply found different reasons for that behavior. 

 

I guess if I don't come on this forum and villify Richard Heaton in every sentence I will be taken to task.

 

In regards to the blue highlighted section:

condone,  Verb

accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.

 

Pretty much saying I do not excuse his behavior.

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shush Quinn,

 

You know by now that if you post anything that isn't completely derogatory that makes you a supporter. It's the exact same shit that happens over there and gets complained about here just the other side of the coin. If you selective read over there and say the game is good, you're a shit sandwich lover and Turbine Shill. but if you do it here to make things look as bad as possible you're just informing people and part of the team. Obviously not everyone here, but we all know it's that way for some.

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Both reasons for RH's behavior sound like they blur into each other rather than having to pick just one. Clearly he was tasked, or took upon himself, to engage in manual "cleaning up" of the forum to keep the negative critical posts away from public sight, and taking measures to prevent critics from posting further. The sweep-it-under-the-carpet PR antics rather than proactively and positively engaging the player base.

 

But the above could easily have been done while maintaining a professional image of impartiality (even if this image is utterly fake and obvious). Deleting unwanted posts, banning and infracting unwanted posters, falsifying data and giving white lies/incomplete truths could have been performed without so blatantly relishing and savoring the sarcasm, snark, and ©rude "bluntness" with which such actions and such posts were undertaken.

 

This could also have easily been done without toying around with sycophantic posters by replying to them in cute ways with cute emoticons and having them eating out of his hand. At least maintain the illusion of professionalism and impartiality, instead of putting these little familiarities on public display. For personal familiarities with individual posters on a public forum, there are PMs for that.

 

 

 Some people think he put himself above the community.   I simply think he put the company he works for above the community.  If that's being selfish then yeah he was. 

 

 

I'd go one further: He put himself above the company he works for.

 

Regardless of his motivations, the ways in which he pursued the execution of his task give all the indications of self-indulgence and ego gratification. Had he kept the company's best interest in his mind at all times, surely he would have taken himself down a notch and realized that he is the public forum face of his company, its online voice and its representative. He is the basis of how his company - his employer - is seen and judged. That would have been professional - to behave and write in respectful, detached way, even regardless of his actions, banning sprees, and post deletion sprees. "It's not what you say, it's how you say it".

 

How stubborn and/or self-centered does a "Community Manager" have to be to shrug off the responsibility of upholding/representing his employer in a positive, friendly image and instead playing a game of favorites and "us vs them" on his employer's official public forum, as if it was his own. Real character of an employee emerges when there's no leash and given sufficient autonomy. Well, it is what it is. And a good riddance!

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Find one phrase where I did

To be honest, I didn't even bother checking who was saying it, only that it was said. But sure, I'll get you one phrase. Fuck it, I'll bring you a whole damn bushel!

 

... I find it funny that people think Richard Heaton is more about himself than the community.

... Richard was simply protecting the shield.

... He didn't do it for himself, maybe only to make his job easier.

... Sometimes you just gotta do it to keep your job.

... To this day the only thing that really made me think that he was a bad person was that Twitter comment about the layoffs

... I said he was doing his job.

... While most see Richard as being selfish in his motives, I just see as a guy trying to protect the company he works for.

... As I said his closure of threads, bans and appointing of "posters, some quite well known" as de facto forum police has more to do with his protection of the company he works for.

... The guy was dealing with a very hostile community.

... I simply think he put the company he works for above the community

... I just saw the things that he did as protecting his company.

... I just have a different outlook than, the idiot was putting himself above the community.

I mean seriously, it's like you've just turned up here or something. EVERYTHING that dick did was for himself. He put himself above the community because he enjoyed the power he could abuse. He silenced opposition to keep his own pets praising him. He banned people not because he was 'doing his job' but because he was being spiteful. He had a 'hostile' community because of what he did to it, so don't try to paint him like some fucking victim. A community manager is supposed to manage, not decimate.

It's nothing but excuses for him, and all because you think your outlook some how fits in with all the other shit we had to take from him. Square pegs, round holes.

 

shush Quinn,

 

You know by now that if you post anything that isn't completely derogatory that makes you a supporter. It's the exact same shit that happens over there and gets complained about here just the other side of the coin. If you selective read over there and say the game is good, you're a shit sandwich lover and Turbine Shill. but if you do it here to make things look as bad as possible you're just informing people and part of the team. Obviously not everyone here, but we all know it's that way for some.

Oh bollocks to that. People can post what they like. But if it's fucking nonsense, it will be called out on it. Don't start bringing out fallacies like some twat.

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I agree with most of what you said, I don't think he was originally being the way he was for his own personal amusement or gain (although it did feel like it on occasion), I think he was more likely simply as you say protecting the company from an aggressive player base, that and a certain ineptitude that really didn't help.

However, what I noticed was that the more he responded aggressively the more aggressive the player base got, he was digging a hole and making things worse, and towards the end I'm pretty sure a lot of his attitude was him protecting his own position because he had incited the player base so much that he couldn't fix his own mistakes.

......but the player base wasn't aggressive. You two are newer to the game than some of us, so maybe you weren't reading the forums back then.. The first few years the forums were a love fest.

 

I think you are missing the key words in Community Manager, a good CM manages, makes the community managable. Lil' Ricky has no clue on how to manage and I guarentee his department was just as hostile at Turbine because that's the way he manages. I'm sure all of you have had managers that didn't know how to manage, weren't people persons, they can make a workplace toxic.

 

Maybe some of you should delve into the archives of these forums and look at what RH did to people for no reason, Fredalas is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

MMOTroll put on moderated status when he's never received infraction 1.

 

The guy who was "sent to coventry". He could post, but once posted they disappeared.

 

Do some digging here, some very interesting reading.

 

I'm bored, here's a few....

 

 

 

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shush Quinn,

 

You know by now that if you post anything that isn't completely derogatory that makes you a supporter. It's the exact same shit that happens over there and gets complained about here just the other side of the coin. If you selective read over there and say the game is good, you're a shit sandwich lover and Turbine Shill. but if you do it here to make things look as bad as possible you're just informing people and part of the team. Obviously not everyone here, but we all know it's that way for some.

 

I said nice things once and most commented positively.

 

Stope being so spiteful! ;)

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Has anybody visited lil Dicky's™ new playground?  Is he over there ruling with an iron fist too?  Are there any Elites over there kissing his ass and swallowing his pearls of wisdom clamoring for the best spot by his side?

 

Edit: Yeah I was just there and hes a douche over there too

http://forums.extra-life.org/showthread.php?38-Lord-of-the-Rings-Online

 

Was checking out the forum statistics. Quite a small forums, hes robbing sick kids to pay his salary. A real man would do that voluntarily.

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Yeah... we were upset when the game went f2p[...]

For the record, I wasn't. For me the game was probably best right after f2p launch (*), better than before. I also had no problem paying either way (one-time or subscription).

The problems came in later when they started ruining game mechanics, released arguably sub-par new content, made old content worse (including but not limiting to making it was too easy) and SLAMMED THE SHOP INTO OUR FACE EVERYWHERE.

(*) anybody recalls whether the change to smaller aggro range and higher respawn rate was in the first f2p version? I thought it came later.

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Has anybody visited lil Dicky's™ new playground?  Is he over there ruling with an iron fist too?  Are there any Elites over there kissing his ass and swallowing his pearls of wisdom clamoring for the best spot by his side?

 

Edit: Yeah I was just there and hes a douche over there too

http://forums.extra-life.org/showthread.php?38-Lord-of-the-Rings-Online

 

Was checking out the forum statistics. Quite a small forums, hes robbing sick kids to pay his salary. A real man would do that voluntarily.

Here's what I took out of reading that entire thread:

 

"To that end, if anyone is on the Elendilmir server, I'd love to play with you sometime. I have trouble finding anyone to group up with reliably, and as a result I've never been able to do any of those group instances, skirmishes or raids. Helegrod, Isengard and Draigoch seem like things I'll never reach!"

 

Could this be Mrs. ODP?  Plays on Elendilmir check,  acts as if anything done with more than 1 person is impossible check, calls anyone grouped with unreliable check. 

 

You have a better chance of seeing a tumbleweed than another player on the big E nowadays, lol.

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lol

Find one phrase where I did that.  You can twist everything I say to make me sound like a Richard Heaton defender but quite clearly I never excused his behavior. 

 

Perhaps you missed the below:

 

 

 

 

 

More proof people only read what they want.   I never excused his behavior, I simply found different reasons for that behavior. 

 

I guess if I don't come on this forum and villify Richard Heaton in every sentence I will be taken to task.

 

In regards to the blue highlighted section:

condone,  Verb

accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.

 

Pretty much saying I do not excuse his behavior.

Classic case of confusing excuse for explain by the looks of it

......but the player base wasn't aggressive. You two are newer to the game than some of us, so maybe you weren't reading the forums back then.. The first few years the forums were a love fest.

Newer to the game? Nope, I've played since beta, have a founders account with a lifetime bought before release. The player base has always been aggressive, not as aggressive as it was over the last few years but always aggressive. Although saying that I am EU so didn't follow the US forum until a few months before me were moved over, but even then I had heard a lot about heatons escapades over on the US forums, in fact if I remember right there were a lot of people who complained bitterly when CM lost the EU and they realised they would have to switch forums and suffer the aggressiveness they had heard about.

Neither of use are excusing Rick, we're just explaining how we think it got so far out of hand, we don't think it started off as self serving, but he became more and more defensive and more and more aggressive to the point that nothing he did would reverse the hate for him.

As to the bit about how a CM should manage the community, that's kind of my point, he was a bad CM and fucked up a lot, to the point where nothing short of quitting would fix it.

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Neither of use are excusing Rick, we're just explaining how we think it got so far out of hand.

 

You might not be (I haven't looked), but Thequinn certainly was. 'Just doing his job' is a massive fucking excuse, along with being entirely wrong anyway.

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......but the player base wasn't aggressive. You two are newer to the game than some of us, so maybe you weren't reading the forums back then.. The first few years the forums were a love fest.

 

 

 

Are you trolling here or just suffering from the selective memory. 

 

I remember the Evernight PvMP forum section.. it was so bad it was locked forever and a new one started and even that was continuously locked so posts could be removed, yet this was tame compared to the Eldar forum section. 

 

Sorry mate but there were sections of the Lotro forums that were cesspit's from day 1

 

The difference was how Codemasters regulated the forum compared to Turbine, i.e the mods would actually communicate with you via email and PM instead of just banning you. 

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Are you trolling here or just suffering from the selective memory. 

 

I remember the Evernight PvMP forum section.. it was so bad it was locked forever and a new one started and even that was continuously locked so posts could be removed, yet this was tame compared to the Eldar forum section. 

 

Sorry mate but there were sections of the Lotro forums that were cesspit's from day 1

 

The difference was how Codemasters regulated the forum compared to Turbine, i.e the mods would actually communicate with you via email and PM instead of just banning you. 

 

I was under the impression that individual server PvP sections were taken as read as being a place of friction. Most ignore them because they are inherently based around a selection of people, not everyone. I saw Spidey as referring to the general forums as a love fest, not the very specific subset of esoteric PvP threads.

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Here's what I took out of reading that entire thread:

 

"To that end, if anyone is on the Elendilmir server, I'd love to play with you sometime. I have trouble finding anyone to group up with reliably, and as a result I've never been able to do any of those group instances, skirmishes or raids. Helegrod, Isengard and Draigoch seem like things I'll never reach!"

 

Could this be Mrs. ODP?  Plays on Elendilmir check,  acts as if anything done with more than 1 person is impossible check, calls anyone grouped with unreliable check. 

 

You have a better chance of seeing a tumbleweed than another player on the big E nowadays, lol.

I took that as a troll post myself, it seemed to be dripping with sarcasm.

Are you trolling here or just suffering from the selective memory. 

 

I remember the Evernight PvMP forum section.. it was so bad it was locked forever and a new one started and even that was continuously locked so posts could be removed, yet this was tame compared to the Eldar forum section. 

 

Sorry mate but there were sections of the Lotro forums that were cesspit's from day 1

 

The difference was how Codemasters regulated the forum compared to Turbine, i.e the mods would actually communicate with you via email and PM instead of just banning you. 

I'm in the US so didn't read Codies forums, remember, we had Patience :), but are you really bring PvP threads into it? It goes without saying that they would be aggressive, they are in every game, I was referring to general forums.

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You might not be (I haven't looked), but Thequinn certainly was. 'Just doing his job' is a massive fucking excuse, along with being entirely wrong anyway.

Would stop already.  I never made any excuses for Richard Heaton.  And how do you personally know that he wasn't commanded by his bosses to do certain things.

 

How can you explain Cordovan's (the DDO CM) behavior during that period?  It was very Heatonesque.  You have no clue what Paiz commanded him or Richard to do. 

 

I'm speculating and so is everyone else so really no need to keep arguing these points without facts.  Neither of us will have facts either way to support if he was told to do the things he did or he was told to do them.

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Would stop already.

After you.

 

I never made any excuses for Richard Heaton.

Weird, because I seem to recall quoting all your excuses. Let me double check... oh wait, they do exist! Would ya look at that?

 

And how do you personally know that he wasn't commanded by his bosses to do certain things.

You're right. His bosses most likely did have a number of posters targeted for a ban. His bosses really did order him to throw infractions around like they're going out of fashion. His bosses jerked off when they forced the poor little Sap to insult players. He was just doing as commanded by ruthless hire-ups who patrol those forums!

 

How can you explain Cordovan's (the DDO CM) behavior during that period?  It was very Heatonesque.  You have no clue what Paiz commanded him or Richard to do.

Yes, yes it was all the Paiz woman! Dick Heaton never acted like his namesake pre-Paiz!

 

I'm speculating and so is everyone else so really no need to keep arguing these points without facts.  Neither of us will have facts either way to support if he was told to do the things he did or he was told to do them.

Speculations only work if they aren't refuted by what we know. Your attempts to make him look like a loyal lap-dog don't fit.

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I'm speculating and so is everyone else so really no need to keep arguing these points without facts.  Neither of us will have facts either way to support if he was told to do the things he did or he was told to do them.

You're the only one who's speculating. The rest of us have actual, final, factual evidence of his idiocy because the "facts" were entirely published online. If Paiz actually told him to shut down the OF and quash all naysayers, he didn't need to be sarcastic and snarky about it: He could have simply locked the threads without getting the snide last word in. Unless you are actually speculating that Paiz commanded him to be an asshole while doing it.

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