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Player Council Visit to Turbine - what happened?


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So who visited Turbine? Do we know which PC members?

 

I wonder if Turbine is intentionally being quiet about it? Or PC members are not mentioning it?

 

Does anyone know?  I am guessing this was some local people who visited and paid their own way, but who knows?

 

Rowan said on 10/30/14  https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?557994-URGENT-DONT-RELEASE-THE-BEORNING-CLASS-ON-5th-NOV&p=7257606#post7257606

November 5th is the release date. We have not been posting as much as I would like in the past couple weeks due to several factors including getting the update ready to go, getting prepped for the Council visit this week and of course the death flu that has been traveling through the office.

 

I love how the Player Council is not for the benefit of players, but to reward a few people who were handpicked by Sapience. Seriously, they have completely given up on sharing any info with players. What kind of game company is this?

 

Also, I wonder if TheCrossbow got his personal reward of VIP treatment during a visit to Turbine.

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The mere fact that Turbine even considered spending money on an empty political visit despite layoffs and shitty U15 makes me livid.

Maybe they didn't need to mention it because all four people who still care about LotRO were there anyway.

I think LOTRO should try adding a store. Maybe sell some pay-to-win items.   According to Fernado the players will complain but they won't leave the game.   Give it a shot, what could go wrong?

Frelorn had been ill during the run-up, plus has had a lot on his plate, which is why the list of names didn't get posted. (This is according to someone who was there in conversation with him when I was speaking to her on FB regarding the visit. She got to go)

Crossbow didn't get to go.

Frickinmuck didn't go.

 

Wasn't local people, btw. But this doesn't suit your narrative, nosam, so you'll probably ignore it.

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Wasn't local people, btw. But this doesn't suit your narrative, nosam, so you'll probably ignore it.

 

No narrative. Just asking for information.

 

I am surprised if they spent many of thousands of dollars for airfare and hotel for players when they just laid off people. So I was guessing that people had to pay their own way. Also, if they set this up and paid for players to visit Turbine, it is even more surprising they did this in secret without telling the larger player base. Maybe I missed a post on this on the OF? 

 

It is just weird to me to have players visit the game company and not let anyone know about this. It is like the player council is this select group of players that do thinks in secret. You would think a PC member would mention it on the forums.

 

Lastly, you are not denying that for this council Sapience hand picked members by himself? We were told that clearly by Sapience before he left. 

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I am surprised if they spent many of thousands of dollars for airfare and hotel for players when they just laid off people.

Different departments and different budgets, plus it was probably arranged and paid for long before the layoffs happened, it's also a tax deductible under entertaining clients so it probably cost them next to nothing.

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Frelorn had been ill during the run-up, plus has had a lot on his plate, which is why the list of names didn't get posted.

 

Sounds a bit lame. How long would it take to post less than 10 names? But I do believe Freelorn has been busy. Rowan, him and others seem to have been doing a lot with Lotro and tying to fix the latest bugs.

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Yes, some people supposedly didn't apply(or got told to apply by Sapience, I don't know which is true).

They're not going to give out information on what was discussed other than a generic "we had productive discussions".

I'm actually not sure whether I can share with you the names of those who got to go who posted that they'd been.

 

I think there was at least one german and one from the UK though.

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... it's also a tax deductible under entertaining clients so it probably cost them next to nothing.

 

I don't think it would be tax deductible for a company under US tax laws. Someone must have set this as part of a budget. The year before it must have cost at least $15,000 given hotel and all the airfare, including international flights. It doesn't matter at this point.

 

I am just surprised they did and and also did not tell anyone about it.

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Maybe the event wasn't as big as they hoped it would be and there was less of a turnout. Or maybe it was just a boring corporate meeting with nothing happening.

 

If anything, I believe it was Sap who hyped up the PC meet-and-greet more, so maybe Frelorn is taking a more passive approach.

 

In any case, it probably was as excitng as watching paint dry. I'll stick to my local faculty meetings tyvm

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Maybe the event wasn't as big as they hoped it would be and there was less of a turnout. Or maybe it was just a boring corporate meeting with nothing happening.

 

If anything, I believe it was Sap who hyped up the PC meet-and-greet more, so maybe Frelorn is taking a more passive approach.

 

In any case, it probably was as excitng as watching paint dry. I'll stick to my local faculty meetings tyvm

Maybe they knew how messy update 15 was going to be and didn't want to paint rosy pictures of the visit at the same time.

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I don't think it would be tax deductible for a company under US tax laws. Someone must have set this as part of a budget. The year before it must have cost at least $15,000 given hotel and all the airfare, including international flights. It doesn't matter at this point.

 

I am just surprised they did and and also did not tell anyone about it.

I'm pretty sure it's detectable up to 50% under Section 274 of the IRS codes, probably under E/4 which covers social meals and events.

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Maybe they knew how messy update 15 was going to be and didn't want to paint rosy pictures of the visit at the same time.

 

Also given the layoffs so recently, I think it might be hard to try to present an "upbeat" face on the future.  From my skimming of the OF, I get a decidedly dispirited vibe from even the most ardent supporters lately.

 

About the rush of update 15, I wouldn't be surprised if WB forced their hand,  to get the Beorning out the day after the Desolation of Smaug Extended Edition became available on disk.  

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I'm pretty sure it's detectable up to 50% under Section 274 of the IRS codes, probably under E/4 which covers social meals and events.

Nice try Columbo - but Section 274 applies to employees of a company who travel for business purposes, not expenses paid for a client. Keep going.

The mere fact that Turbine even considered spending money on an empty political visit despite layoffs and shitty U15 makes me livid.

 

I agree. When a company is laying people off, spending money for things like this is not right.

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I don't think it would be tax deductible for a company under US tax laws. Someone must have set this as part of a budget. The year before it must have cost at least $15,000 given hotel and all the airfare, including international flights. It doesn't matter at this point.

 

I am just surprised they did and and also did not tell anyone about it.

$15,000 seems high, I don't know the full cost of anything but we can hazard a guess

2x international flights from England and Germany - I'm guessing $3000 to $4000 ($1500 to $2000 each)

14x (7 people, 2 nights each) nights in fairly basic hotel - $1400

food for 7 council members in restaurant (twice) - $1400

so between $5800 and $6800 so far, the next bit I am unsure of;

5x national flights - someone else fill this in, I have no idea of the cost of internal flights in the US

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$15,000 seems high, I don't know the full cost of anything but we can hazard a guess

2x international flights from England and Germany - I'm guessing $3000 to $4000 ($1500 to $2000 each)

14x (7 people, 2 nights each) nights in fairly basic hotel - $1400

food for 7 council members in restaurant (twice) - $1400

so between $5800 and $6800 so far, the next bit I am unsure of;

5x national flights - someone else fill this in, I have no idea of the cost of internal flights in the US

 

So you are saying that the player needs to pay for all their meals except 2 of them?  Just curious about that. That would save some.

 

In the US airfair, unless close, could be 300 to 500 round trip. Includes paying extra for bags. You can get it lower if you have layovers and the worst times, but usually in  a case like this the company does not try to save the extra $50 on airfare by finding the absolute lowest fare. So Turbine does not pay for travel from the airport or any other expenses? Just hotel and airfare?

 

Lastly, it is doubtful that a hotel in Boston will be $100 with taxes and everything. $120 to $150 is more believable.  ($125 makes it $1750 total).  For airfare 5 x $450 = 2250.  So we are up to $8000 plus any extra for costs to travel to airports and meals.

 

For a company, it is not that much. But what is the benefit of this anyway, since it does nothing at all for players of the game, who can't even be told about the visit?

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Different departments and different budgets, plus it was probably arranged and paid for long before the layoffs happened, it's also a tax deductible under entertaining clients so it probably cost them next to nothing.

 

One interpretation I've seen of tax deductions says that one entity receiving a deduction creates a slightly larger burden for other taxable entities (it doesn't increase their taxes, of course, but local/state/federal all have budgets which must be met, and collecting less from one person means that person pays less of a share, so everyone else's relative share increases).

 

So if this was indeed a tax deductible item for Turbine, by the interpretation above, the trip was paid for by every other taxable entity with Turbine's locale, meaning that even recently laid off employees may have contributed a fraction of a penny to fund the trip.

Then again, others already pointed out that it may not have been tax deductible, in which case Turbine wasn't indirectly dipping into the pockets of the local citizenry, but rather allocating some thousands of dollars to entertain a few players who are already most likely fully committed to the game instead of maybe having an extra team-building event (yuck) or a fancier holiday party for its own employees.

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$15,000 seems high, I don't know the full cost of anything but we can hazard a guess

2x international flights from England and Germany - I'm guessing $3000 to $4000 ($1500 to $2000 each)

14x (7 people, 2 nights each) nights in fairly basic hotel - $1400

food for 7 council members in restaurant (twice) - $1400

so between $5800 and $6800 so far, the next bit I am unsure of;

5x national flights - someone else fill this in, I have no idea of the cost of internal flights in the US

Hotel: Made them double up and one poor sap got a cot $300.00

 

Food: Happy Meals all around!!!! and free continental breakfasts at Motel 6 $70.00

 

Travel: Greyhound bus fare x 5 $ $250.00

 

Giving up LOTRO to play real games: Priceless

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A Hartford Whalers pennant?  That poor sod.

 

Actually they just use that flag to worship the whale. After all, whales kept giving them money in Lotro for so long - even without any good content. The whale was their god.

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Actually they just use that flag to worship the whale. After all, whales kept giving them money in Lotro for so long - even without any good content. The whale was their god.

 

Don't be a total c....

Jinjaah is most likely someone who used to support Hartford Whalers.

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